Keep Your Eyes on Israel

[GRACE ambassador]

Your statement is erroneous because the bible does not say that Christian's will be removed before the tribulation, but actually does say the gathering of the saints occurs at the first resurrection and coincides with the return of Christ in glory. The pretribulation rapture doctrine is not explicitly stated in scripture, but was built from various verses about other topics, such as the resurrection of the righteous and the glorification of our bodies when Christ returns in vengeance.

Precious friend, erroneous only if God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided,
Built With all Relevant Plain And Clear Passages, is Negated by men:

Great GRACE Departure, Rightly Divided!

Precious friend(s), Definite Distinctions are not being made, resulting in mass Confusion!
Hope this is helpful and encouraging = Please Be Very Richly Blessed in JESUS CHRIST!:
--------------------------------------------------------

LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding In This Thy Most
Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation. Amen. (1_Thessalonians_4:18 KJB!)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The Second Coming, is found in:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom (“ages” past/future)
(Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world” (Matthew_25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke_1:68-70; Acts_3:21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy_2:15 KJB!) From Things That DIFFER:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians_1:4; 2_Timothy_1:9!)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans_16:25; Ephesians_1:4-11, 3:5-9!)
-------------------
The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:

(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew_24:29; Revelation_19:16, 11 KJB!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation_19:12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies on white horses! (Revelation_19:12-15)

(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth “With All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew_25:31; Revelation_19:11, 15)

(5a) Angels “gather the tares First, And they are taken Out of the kingdom”
to be cast into the furnace of fire! (Matthew_24:30, 13:30, 40-43!)

(5b) Angels “gather the elect”... (Matthew_24:31; Mark_13:27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew_25:31-46!)

(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew_25:34-46!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy_2:15 KJB!) From Things That DIFFER!:

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:

(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians_1:19-23; Colossians_1:18; 1_Thessalonians_4:16-17!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (1_Thessalonians_4:16!)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2_Corinthians_5:8; Philippians_1:21-23; 1_Thessalonians_4:13 KJB!)

(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep {in 3)} First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1_Thessalonians_4:16-17; 1_Corinthians_15:52-53!)

(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2_Thessalonians_2:1-3; 1_Corinthians_15:49; 2_Corinthians_12:2, 5:1, 2;
Ephesians_1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians_3:20; 2_Timothy_4:18!)

6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans_2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1_Corinthians_3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2_Corinthians_5:10;
Ephesians_6:8; Colossians_3:24-25!)

(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians_5:27!)

(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1_Thessalonians_3:13; Colossians_1:5, 22;
1_Corinthians_6:3; 2_Corinthians_5:1-2 KJB!)

"Prove all things; hold fast to that which is Good!"
(1 Thessalonians_5:21 KJB!)
---------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of Eternal Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
Please Be Very Richly Blessed, Encouraged, And Comforted! And:

Precious friend(s), see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ ↑

 

[Keraz]

Brother, the Jews are not His enemy...they are His chosen people.
Now there are religious Jews who love God but are still awaiting the coming of the Messiah....these have been deceived because of their ignorance and rebellion. But He has a remnant He has kept for Himself to preach salvation to them.
That is how I see it.
Now if you are talking about the kings and rulers who attacks Israel...particularly Jerusalem then yes God will deal with them with a fiery vengeance.

Didn't you bother to read Zephaniah 1:4-18 or the many other prophesies that describe the final Judgment/ punishment of Judah?
Remember they rejected Jesus and continue to reject Him nearly 2000 years later. They cursed themselves; Matthew 27:25

Also pretty sure that the Judgment of Judah fell around 70AD

There was a Judgment of the Jews then. But it wasn't the final one, or the Holocaust, over 20 Prophesies describe the end times virtual demise of the House of Judah. Isaiah 22:14
Only a Christian remnant will join with their Christian brethren. Jeremiah 50:4-5

Church doctrine; allied to the 'rapture theory', teaches a Jewish redemption, both ideas are wrong and not Biblical.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Dear All,

Please be aware that hopefully EACH OF US is aspiring to the FULLNESS of TRUTH. And while each is given a portion, some have "one talent" and others "ten talents". So although we are exhorted to achieve MORE Giftings, some may be "way-laid" by various impediments including False Teachings from the Commentaries; the Pulpit; associates; or even our own flawed imagination.

Toward this all we can to is SPEAK THE TRUTH, and allow GOD to reach those who either ARE HIS, or discount those which ARE NOT HIS:

Matt. 14:13 He answered, “Every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. 14 Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”
​

... and only GOD knows which are which.
Bobby Jo

 

[Heart2Soul]

Dear All,

Please be aware that hopefully EACH OF US is aspiring to the FULLNESS of TRUTH. And while each is given a portion, some have "one talent" and others "ten talents". So although we are exhorted to achieve MORE Giftings, some may be "way-laid" by various impediments including False Teachings from the Commentaries; the Pulpit; associates; or even our own flawed imagination.

Toward this all we can to is SPEAK THE TRUTH, and allow GOD to reach those who either ARE HIS, or discount those which ARE NOT HIS:

Matt. 14:13 He answered, “Every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. 14 Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”
​

... and only GOD knows which are which.
Bobby Jo

Amen!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I'm with QT in this. Focusing on the literal nation of Israel is a deception. Such doesn't mean we are not interested in prophecy, in fact quite the opposite. It is a more accurate perspective of prophecy that identifies the real Antichrist and where the action is actually taking place and not a red herring. The final days isn't just about war and judgement. Jesus warned that almost everyone would be deceived... Even the church... Regarding the last days and the movements thereof. Only the elect would be spared. That 90% of the Christian Church are all looking at the middle east ought to be of grave concern to ask those in that group. When has the majority ever been right about anything?

Prophecy happens literally AND it happens spiritually.

 

[Oseas]

Wow, their is a huge uprising happening...I think the Muslims still control the Temple Mount and that is what is happening...muslims against jews over it....I will have to check further.
Jerusalem must regain this Temple Mount to rebuild the physical temple .

There will not be rebuild of any physical temple. The only temple that will be built by prophecy is revealed in John 2: v.19-21.

Hoseas prophesied: chapter 6:v.1-3
1 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day-2 Peter 3:v.8).

3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us-1 Thessalonians 4:v.16- as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

 

[Oseas]

Thanks for sharing this! What an eye opener....I always believed that the antichrist would rise up through a religious doctrine...a world church...and here it is.

Very soon there will be two Beast reigning on the Earth: the Man Beast of sea-Rev.13:v.1-10 and the Man Beast of earth: v. 1-18.

The main point is about the Beast of sea, having seven heads (7 heads mean 7 mountains and 7 kings-Revelation 17:.v.9-10) and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The theorists say the 7 mountains are the seven hills of Rome where is built the Vatican City. This interpretation is not true, although the headquarters of the Beast of sea be in the Vatican City, for the seven heads are the seven mountains on which the woman sits-Revelation 17:v.9- , and the peoples, and nations, and multitudes, and tongues(many tongues) are not located on the 7 hill of Rome, but in the 7 regions of the Earth, i.e. Europe, and Asia, and Africa, and Oceania(Australia), and three Americas.

The 7 heads are also 7 kings, but this is another subject.

That said, the unclean spirit like frog that comes out of the mouth of the Beast of sea -the mouth of the Pope, the Papacy- manifest himself through the universal religious system with its liturgy in the sense of spiritual or ritual services, applied by the religious and satanic MONSTER of 7 heads, ten horns, and with its names of blasphemy.

The next point is the spirit like frog that come out of the mouth of the Dragon, and F.P.

We know that Israel is the clay, Israel is the dry land, Israel is the earth, so Israel is as an isle in the sea (among the Gentile nations-waters). Israel is linked with Sodom and Egypt spiritually-Revelation 11:v.8-, Jerusalem is infested, polluted, of idolatry and witchcraft, and full of unclean spirit like frog but here in dry land exclusively.

The Man Beast like a lamb who has two horns (two horns represent two kingdoms: the kingdom of Judah-two tribes- and kingdom of Israel-ten tribes-) , and from the mouth of the Beast like a lamb, a false messiah, in fact an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah of the Jews, a former Cherub, the son of perdition, yeah, from the mouth of him come out an unclean spirit liked frog, which go forth working miracles, and go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of this Great Day of God Almighty, or the Lord's Day.

In the first half of the last week- Daniel 9:v.27 - the false messiah will make a deal with the Beast of sea-the Pope, the Papacy, and will give to the Pope his Power, and his Throne, and great Authority - Revelation 13:v.2 - and there will be a partnership between both to build an universal and satanic religious Empire. The false messiah will use the whole structures of the Roman Catholic Church in his satanic project to rule the world, then will fulfill LITERALLY Revelation 11:v.1-2.

And the Beasts of sea -the Pope- will be the first to rule the universal kingdom sitting on the Throne of the false messiah in Jerusalem, spiritually Sodom and Egypt. This partnership will remain for the first half of the last week -42 months or 1,260 days-Revelation 13:v.5-,
and the Pope will reign sitting on the Throne of the false messiah in the temple of GOD in Jerusalem.

After the end of the first half of the last week, the ruthless false messiah-Revelation 13:v.11 to 18- will sit in his throne as GOD,
but now will exercise also the function of Prophet in Israel, accumulating in addition to the function of false messiah, also that of prophet, a false prophet, of course, and the abomination of desolation will be established until the END of all things.

Daniel 12:v. 11-12

11 And from the time that the...abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 1,290 days - 2nd half of the last week Daniel 9:v.27

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 1,335 days -the mysterious day 1,335, uh?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Didn't you bother to read Zephaniah 1:4-18 or the many other prophesies that describe the final Judgment/ punishment of Judah?
Remember they rejected Jesus and continue to reject Him nearly 2000 years later. They cursed themselves; Matthew 27:25

There was a Judgment of the Jews then. But it wasn't the final one, or the Holocaust, over 20 Prophesies describe the end times virtual demise of the House of Judah. Isaiah 22:14
Only a Christian remnant will join with their Christian brethren. Jeremiah 50:4-5

Church doctrine; allied to the 'rapture theory', teaches a Jewish redemption, both ideas are wrong and not Biblical.

I'm sorry Keraz, but God is not unjust. Your studies aren't helping you if you misunderstand His character.

 

[APAK]

The 144,000 are 12,000 men from each of the 12 tribes and they are Jewish virgin males (likely the ultra-Orthodox who appear to be the only ones who can fit this category) who sing.

Revelation 14:3-4

"And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth."

Why would anyone think God can't count?

Everyone's name is in the book of life, he knows the number of hairs on your head. He can count.

I was meaning to get back with you sooner...late that never ..ok

I cited someone else's opinion in my post you responded to. I will add some of my own thoughts here.

This area of scripture can be difficult, in any of this Book.

Starting off with the fact that the word 'virgin' is not be taken in quickly using a modern English view; that is one who has not had sex. And then not being defiled with women meaning, not having sex with any woman. And thus concluding these '144,000' are all men. That's the quick knee jerk response. Problem solved it would seem. I would say, 'not so fast.'

Let's review all the key phrases collectively, from John's lens, his culture, his style of writing and in his context, and then we can find a completely different conclusion.

Looking at all the passage of Rev 7 and 14 at least then:

Rev 14:4 says they are the redeemed from the earth - all of them. In other scripture these correspond to the first fruits of the new creation in Christ. These include all the OT saints and all the NT saints. So if 144,000 is a literal number then it does not jive with all the millions upon millions of all saints who have been and will be redeemed from the earth. Then the Bride of Christ must also be literally 144,000 saints in number only.

And then many will say, well these literal 144,00 did not have sex with women and were all men. And so they are only a select small group of all the saints. And some will say they are all ethnic Jews and so on and more theories....etc. And I would say, really? Prove it.

Rev 21:2, 9-10, 16-17 21....and more

The Bride of the Lamb is described as the great, new City (Jerusalem) of all saints.

The Bride of the Lamb is dimensioned with 12 gates of the Holy City having the names of the 12 tribes upon each gate. Sound a little familiar...the 12 x 12k men only group of saints?

The City of ALL the Saints from all the earth has dimensions: 12,000 (12k) furlongs in length, breadth and height . Her wall measures 144 cubits high.

Twelve tribes times 12k each is 144,000, just as John describes the sealed servants of God in Revelation 7! Twelve and the square of twelve is New Jerusalem's description! The bride is exactly 144,000, and the first fruits are exactly 144,000.

NOT a coincidence at all because they are the same thing with the same meaning.

The 144,000 are ALL the millions and millions of saints, and they are not all men either. Why, because in this Book of high symbolism, virgin and non-defilement with women mean, that both men and women who did not spiritually whore with other dead religions and idols and defiled their garments of white. They were ALL cleaned by the blood of Christ.

Well this is a short version of what or who the 12 x 12k mean to me...

Bless you, and have a great Day

APAK

 

[DuckieLady]

Very soon there will be two Beast reigning on the Earth: the Man Beast of sea-Rev.13:v.1-10 and the Man Beast of earth: v. 1-18.

The main point is about the Beast of sea, having seven heads (7 heads mean 7 mountains and 7 kings-Revelation 17:.v.9-10) and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The theorists say the 7 mountains are the seven hills of Rome where is built the Vatican City. This interpretation is not true, although the headquarters of the Beast of sea be in the Vatican City, for the seven heads are the seven mountains on which the woman sits-Revelation 17:v.9- , and the peoples, and nations, and multitudes, and tongues(many tongues) are not located on the 7 hill of Rome, but in the 7 regions of the Earth, i.e. Europe, and Asia, and Africa, and Oceania(Australia), and three Americas.

The 7 heads are also 7 kings, but this is another subject.

That said, the unclean spirit like frog that comes out of the mouth of the Beast of sea -the mouth of the Pope, the Papacy- manifest himself through the universal religious system with its liturgy in the sense of spiritual or ritual services, applied by the religious and satanic MONSTER of 7 heads, ten horns, and with its names of blasphemy.

The next point is the spirit like frog that come out of the mouth of the Dragon, and F.P.

We know that Israel is the clay, Israel is the dry land, Israel is the earth, so Israel is as an isle in the sea (among the Gentile nations-waters). Israel is linked with Sodom and Egypt spiritually-Revelation 11:v.8-, Jerusalem is infested, polluted, of idolatry and witchcraft, and full of unclean spirit like frog but here in dry land exclusively.

The Man Beast like a lamb who has two horns (two horns represent two kingdoms: the kingdom of Judah-two tribes- and kingdom of Israel-ten tribes-) , and from the mouth of the Beast like a lamb, a false messiah, in fact an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah of the Jews, a former Cherub, the son of perdition, yeah, from the mouth of him come out an unclean spirit liked frog, which go forth working miracles, and go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of this Great Day of God Almighty, or the Lord's Day.

In the first half of the last week- Daniel 9:v.27 - the false messiah will make a deal with the Beast of sea-the Pope, the Papacy, and will give to the Pope his Power, and his Throne, and great Authority - Revelation 13:v.2 - and there will be a partnership between both to build an universal and satanic religious Empire. The false messiah will use the whole structures of the Roman Catholic Church in his satanic project to rule the world, then will fulfill LITERALLY Revelation 11:v.1-2.

And the Beasts of sea -the Pope- will be the first to rule the universal kingdom sitting on the Throne of the false messiah in Jerusalem, spiritually Sodom and Egypt. This partnership will remain for the first half of the last week -42 months or 1,260 days-Revelation 13:v.5-,
and the Pope will reign sitting on the Throne of the false messiah in the temple of GOD in Jerusalem.

After the end of the first half of the last week, the ruthless false messiah-Revelation 13:v.11 to 18- will sit in his throne as GOD,
but now will exercise also the function of Prophet in Israel, accumulating in addition to the function of false messiah, also that of prophet, a false prophet, of course, and the abomination of desolation will be established until the END of all things.

Daniel 12:v. 11-12

11 And from the time that the...abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 1,290 days - 2nd half of the last week Daniel 9:v.27

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 1,335 days -the mysterious day 1,335, uh?

Your posts with the bold colored texts are impossible to read. It is really difficult. The formatting is distracting from what you're trying to say.

I feel like I'm reading something on Angelfire.

I was meaning to get back with you sooner...late that never ..ok

I cited someone else's opinion in my post you responded to. I will add some of my own thoughts here.

This area of scripture can be difficult, in any of this Book.

Starting off with the fact that the word 'virgin' is not be taken in quickly using a modern English view; that is one who has not had sex. And then not being defiled with women meaning, not having sex with any woman. And thus concluding these '144,000' are all men. That's the quick knee jerk response. Problem solved it would seem. I would say, 'not so fast.'

Let's review all the key phrases collectively, from John's lens, his culture, his style of writing and in his context, and then we can find a completely different conclusion.

Looking at all the passage of Rev 7 and 14 at least then:

Rev 14:4 says they are the redeemed from the earth - all of them. In other scripture these correspond to the first fruits of the new creation in Christ. These include all the OT saints and all the NT saints. So if 144,000 is a literal number then it does not jive with all the millions upon millions of all saints who have been and will be redeemed from the earth. Then the Bride of Christ must also be literally 144,000 saints in number only.

And then many will say, well these literal 144,00 did not have sex with women and were all men. And so they are only a select small group of all the saints. And some will say they are all ethnic Jews and so on and more theories....etc. And I would say, really? Prove it.

Rev 21:2, 9-10, 16-17 21....and more

The Bride of the Lamb is described as the great, new City (Jerusalem) of all saints.

The Bride of the Lamb is dimensioned with 12 gates of the Holy City having the names of the 12 tribes upon each gate. Sound a little familiar...the 12 x 12k men only group of saints?

The City of ALL the Saints from all the earth has dimensions: 12,000 (12k) furlongs in length, breadth and height . Her wall measures 144 cubits high.

Twelve tribes times 12k each is 144,000, just as John describes the sealed servants of God in Revelation 7! Twelve and the square of twelve is New Jerusalem's description! The bride is exactly 144,000, and the first fruits are exactly 144,000.

NOT a coincidence at all because they are the same thing with the same meaning.

The 144,000 are ALL the millions and millions of saints, and they are not all men either. Why, because in this Book of high symbolism, virgin and non-defilement with women mean, that both men and women who did not spiritually whore with other dead religions and idols and delfiled their garments of white. They were ALL cleaned by the blood of Christ.

Well this is a short version of what or who the 12 x 12k mean to me...

Bless you, and have a great Day

APAK

I prefer to read the Bible as what it says directly but I also don't know anything anymore.

 

[Timtofly]

I was meaning to get back with you sooner...late that never ..ok

I cited someone else's opinion in my post you responded to. I will add some of my own thoughts here.

This area of scripture can be difficult, in any of this Book.

Starting off with the fact that the word 'virgin' is not be taken in quickly using a modern English view; that is one who has not had sex. And then not being defiled with women meaning, not having sex with any woman. And thus concluding these '144,000' are all men. That's the quick knee jerk response. Problem solved it would seem. I would say, 'not so fast.'

Let's review all the key phrases collectively, from John's lens, his culture, his style of writing and in his context, and then we can find a completely different conclusion.

Looking at all the passage of Rev 7 and 14 at least then:

Rev 14:4 says they are the redeemed from the earth - all of them. In other scripture these correspond to the first fruits of the new creation in Christ. These include all the OT saints and all the NT saints. So if 144,000 is a literal number then it does not jive with all the millions upon millions of all saints who have been and will be redeemed from the earth. Then the Bride of Christ must also be literally 144,000 saints in number only.

And then many will say, well these literal 144,00 did not have sex with women and were all men. And so they are only a select small group of all the saints. And some will say they are all ethnic Jews and so on and more theories....etc. And I would say, really? Prove it.

Rev 21:2, 9-10, 16-17 21....and more

The Bride of the Lamb is described as the great, new City (Jerusalem) of all saints.

The Bride of the Lamb is dimensioned with 12 gates of the Holy City having the names of the 12 tribes upon each gate. Sound a little familiar...the 12 x 12k men only group of saints?

The City of ALL the Saints from all the earth has dimensions: 12,000 (12k) furlongs in length, breadth and height . Her wall measures 144 cubits high.

Twelve tribes times 12k each is 144,000, just as John describes the sealed servants of God in Revelation 7! Twelve and the square of twelve is New Jerusalem's description! The bride is exactly 144,000, and the first fruits are exactly 144,000.

NOT a coincidence at all because they are the same thing with the same meaning.

The 144,000 are ALL the millions and millions of saints, and they are not all men either. Why, because in this Book of high symbolism, virgin and non-defilement with women mean, that both men and women who did not spiritually whore with other dead religions and idols and defiled their garments of white. They were ALL cleaned by the blood of Christ.

Well this is a short version of what or who the 12 x 12k mean to me...

Bless you, and have a great Day

APAK

The distinction is made in chapter 7. Those redeemed were 144k a known number, compared to the church a multitude too large to count. The church is distinct from the 144k. Two different groups entirely. The first half of the chapter is not describing the second half.

The church has been removed from earth, because they are now in the temple of God. The 144k are on earth during the Trumpets and Thunders.

 

[kcnalp]

what a stretch. Sometimes I just wonder how God will ever unite His Church in the unity of faith. But I have faith in His promises so how He will do it is for Him to know and us to find out.

It's gonna get UGLY! But it will have a beautiful outcome.

Revelation 20:4 (NKJV)
4 Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

[Oseas]

BJ I have to say that you and HIH and others are incorrect on this subject. These Jews in this crafted and created political State with Zionist money and deceitful motives, called Israel, has nothing to do with the foundation of my Christian doctrines or beliefs. Christ and his ancestors yes of course...these modern self-styled Jews, no way..they are pretenders.....do the research....you see I disagree with you on a subject and because this one is a 'biggy' and matters to me....I have to tell you the truth else I would not be true to myself and you as a friend...APAK

TRUE.

JESUS sent a message to the angel of Philadelphia, saying: Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie(Romans 2:v.28-29 and 9:v.6-8 and Phil.3:v.2-3) behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Revelation 3:v.9

Revelation 2:v.9 - I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


JESUS in His Ministry here said to the Jews: John 8:v.40 to 45
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said the Jews to JESUS, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

 

[kcnalp]

TRUE.

JESUS sent a message to the angel of Philadelphia, saying: Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie

That means Israel wannabe's like you who try to steal Israel's identity and blessings!

 

[Oseas]

12x12k are saved, some being saved now, and some in the future H2S

Do you think the 12x12k is a literal number?

I will be a little lazy today and quote someone else....of course this subject can be lengthy...

I just picked one that does follow my thought as an intro at least

------------------------from https://originalgospel.blog/2019/01/22/the-144000-literal-or-symbolic-2/----------------

Is 144,000 a literal number? Thus far, Scripture has provided no evidence that there are two classes of believers, one ruling over the other. Can it be demonstrated from Revelation itself, that the number 144,000 is not a literal number, but symbolic?

The whole nature of Revelation is one of symbolism. If the 144,000 was a literal number, then the 12 tribes of Israel referred to in chapter 7 would have to be literal as well. How can we take the number 144,000 as literal when every other aspect of this description from verse one to verse eight, is symbolic?

The fact that Revelation 7:1-8 describes John hearing the number 144,000 and then after that, John sees a ‘great crowd,’ does not necessarily mean that they are two separate groups of people, but viewed from a different perspective. The symbolic 144,000 are more likely the ‘great crowd’ – which no man can literally number.
----end quote---------

So you think that this 12x12k people are to be taken literally? and then they are all to come out of the same plot of land, of the current State of Israel?

Bless you, I know you care a lot about this subject, and so do I
APAK

Revelation 14:v.1-3

14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters(peoples, and nations, and multitudes, and tongues), and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four living beings, and the elders: and no MAN could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.




..

 

[Oseas]

That means Israel wannabe's like you who try to steal Israel's identity and blessings!

Why are you tormented ? Isn't it because I tell the truth?

Well, it may be quite the opposite, aren't you a follower of the synagogue of their father? John 8:v.44-45

What prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, understand?

The great Dragon will be cast out (from this heavenly place to the earth), that is the old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he will be cast out into the earth, and his messengers will be cast out with him. Revelation 12

Well, about the messengers of Satan - 1 Corinthians 11:13-15 reveals:

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[kcnalp]

Why are you tormented ?

I'm not. You are. Israel is tormenting you.

Isn't it because I tell the truth?

No, it's because you're so jealous of Israel you're blind.

Well, it may be quite the opposite, aren't you a follower of the synagogue of their father? John 8:v.44-45

I'm just a Bible believing Christian. What are you?

What prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, understand?

Well, that's true but you're still not Israel no matter what Satan and your imagination are telling you.

The great Dragon will be cast out (from this heavenly place to the earth), that is the old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he will be cast out into the earth, and his messengers will be cast out with him. Revelation 12

Well, about the messengers of Satan - 1 Corinthians 11:13-15 reveals:

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Gee, I hope you're not in this bunch of losers.

Zechariah 14:12 (NKJV)
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

 

[Oseas]

Israel = he will rule as God.
Question is, did he?

I would say that Israel of GOD may rule as GOD only through JESUS-GOD , the KING of kings, and LORD of lords. Revelation 14:v.1-3

The Israel that is not of GOD, the carnal Israel, will rule 1,290 days (2nd half of the last week's Daniel 70th) through the son of perdition-2Thes.2:v.11-12 -, a former cherub, the own Satan incarnated, but he will be cast down into the bottomless pit - Revelation 20:v.1-3- , and his followers into the hell's fire.

 

[Oseas]

I'm not. You are. Israel is tormenting you.

No, it's because you're so jealous of Israel you're blind.
I'm just a Bible believing Christian. What are you?

Well, that's true but you're still not Israel no matter what Satan and your imagination are telling you.

Gee, I hope you're not in this bunch of losers.

Zechariah 14:12 (NKJV)
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

The Israel that is not of GOD, the carnal Israel, will rule 1,290 days (2nd half of the last week's Daniel 70th) through the son of perdition-2Thes.2:v.11-12 -, a former cherub, the own Satan incarnated, but he will be cast down into the bottomless pit - Revelation 20:v.1-3- , and his followers into the hell's fire.

 

[kcnalp]

I would say that Israel of GOD may rule as GOD only through JESUS-GOD , the KING of kings, and LORD of lords. Revelation 14:v.1-3

The Israel that is not of GOD, the carnal Israel, will rule 1,290 days (2nd half of the last week's Daniel 70th) through the son of perdition-2Thes.2:v.11-12 -, a former cherub, the own Satan incarnated, but he will be cast down into the bottomless pit - Revelation 20:v.1-3- , and his followers into the hell's fire.

Do you hate Jews?

Matthew 27:11 (NKJV)
11 Now Jesus stood before the governor. And the governor asked Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?" So Jesus said to him, "It is as you say."