Keeping Jesus' commands is requirement for salvation, not the doctrine of trinity

[williemac]

Is Jesus Father too?


Jesus says He cannot do nothing on His own. He does what His Father wants Him to do.. Almightyy
God never say such thing, friend.

There again is the mystery. The word became flesh and dwelt among us for a time. But when He prayed near the end of His time, He asked that He would be restored to the glory that He had with His Father. Here is the point. While Jesus was on earth, He was in the form of a human, and as the bible says, He humbled Himself and became a servant. Therefore He was in subjection to His Father who was/is in Heaven, as all humans need to be.

The word "trinity" is irrelevant. It is merely a man made word to describe something he sees in scripture. We are not able to understand how it is that God could be eternal, having no beginning. He never was 'not'. But Neither was Jesus. He had no beginning as well. Such is the mystery. These things cannot be denied. They are written.

The relationship within the three is in no way proof that they do not have equality. Their roles may be different, but if we can use the word "species" for lack of a better one, they are of the same species. They are co-eternal. This cannot be argued...unless one wants to ignore or change the written word.

As well, to answer your first question. Yes, Jesus is called "everlasting Father" (Is.9:6). You might want to look that one up for yourself. To explain...He has a Father, but is a Father....everlasting. No beginning , no end. You don't need to comprehend this to accept it. You merely need to apprehend it biblically, and accept it.

 

[meshak]

There again is the mystery. The word became flesh and dwelt among us for a time. But when He prayed near the end of His time, He asked that He would be restored to the glory that He had with His Father. Here is the point. While Jesus was on earth, He was in the form of a human, and as the bible says, He humbled Himself and became a servant. Therefore He was in subjection to His Father who was/is in Heaven, as all humans need to be.

The word "trinity" is irrelevant. It is merely a man made word to describe something he sees in scripture. We are not able to understand how it is that God could be eternal, having no beginning. He never was 'not'. But Neither was Jesus. He had no beginning as well. Such is the mystery. These things cannot be denied. They are written.

The reltionship within the three is in no way proof that they do not have equality. Their roles may be different, but if we can use the word "species" for lack of a better one, they are of the same species. They are co-eternal. This cannot be argued...unless one wants to ignore or change the written word.

Jesus says He cannot do nothing on His own. He does what His Father wants Him to do.. Almightyy
God never say such thing, friend.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Is Jesus Father too?

Jesus is not the father because he is the son. Nevertheless, they are the same being. Jesus is the visible form of GOD; the father is invisible whom no man can see.

 

[meshak]

Jesus is not the father because he is the son. Nevertheless, they are the same being. Jesus is the visible form of GOD; the father is invisible whom no man can see.

You seem to be talking like the oneness.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You seem to be talking like the oneness.

Yes but, the son is subject to the father; he can not do anything of himself. As he hears (the spirit) he judges. Also, Jesus is not spirit.

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Luke 24:39

I do lean more oneness, though, than trinitarian.

 

[Rach1370]

Nope, I read the bible to harmonize with God and Jesus' lover characters.

And what on earth does that mean? Basically, you're saying, are you not, that if 'bits' of scripture doesn't line up with how you read other bits....the bits that show 'lover characters' (whatever that means), you ignore them. Because you have blatantly refused to deal with the VERY clear scriptures I gave that refute your beliefs.
If you cannot deal with all of scripture, making all of it harmonize...then you don't follow Jesus. It's HIS book.

 

[williemac]

Jesus is not the father because he is the son. Nevertheless, they are the same being. Jesus is the visible form of GOD; the father is invisible whom no man can see.

Jesus was seen by men. The Father is seen by those in heaven, and the Son as well, at His right hand. The Holy Spirit is the invisible person in the trinity. We are off topic now, by the way.

Jesus says He cannot do nothing on His own. He does what His Father wants Him to do.. Almightyy
God never say such thing, friend.

'cannot do nothing' is a double negative. It means 'can do something'. :unsure:
I already explained this to you. Now you are arguing just to be right? What Jesus said while on the earth, He said as man. He humbled Himself and gave up His glory to come in the flesh. We are off topic now.

 

[KingJ]

I already told you no. that does not make me I am not His servant because I have been already serving Him faithfully as He commands. Jesus does not care what we say. He says we know them by their fruit. Trinity churches' fruit is not so godly or faithful to Him.

Jesus says "you call me Lord but you do not do what I say". This is exactly what trinity churches are doing and this is their fruit. It is called lip service and hypocrisy. Jesus hates hypocrisy and hypocrites will not inherit God's kingdom.

I agree with the need for fruits Meshak, but lets not be naive, there are hypocrites in every church ^_^.

Meshak, you do need to grasp that Jesus is God. It is what separates Christianity from other religions. Remove Christ's diety and you remove His power / impact / significance. He becomes just a good person / creation that died for us. How would His sacrifice be worthy for us if that were the case? See, it just opens the door for major error and being stumbled one-day in your Christian walk.

Scripture is crystal clear that Jesus is deity / Godhead. The semantics of the trinity as to how you see it / imagine it will be opinion driven, but if anyone disputes that Jesus is God....they are either not a Christian or a naive Christian (no offence).

John 10:30 I and my Father are one, Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. John 14:9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.

There is absolutely NO debate or discussion on the matter. It is the foundation of Christianity. It is something we can only truly grasp if we are saved.

For further reading...as you seem to have already overlooked the above verses for some reason <_< ....
[SIZE=10pt]John 20:27-29, 2 Peter 1:1, Titus 2:12b-14[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]John 1:1-3, 14[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]Hebrews 1:8[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]Isaiah 9:6[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]John 5:18[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]John 10:33[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]John 8:58-59[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]Revelation 22:12-13[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]Revelation 1:8[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]Colossians 1:16-17[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]John 1:3[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]Isaiah 44:24[/SIZE].

 

[Stephen100]

He are the verses to support my claim:


1. John 14:15
◦New King James Version
“If you love Me, keep My
commandments.

2. John 14:21
◦New King James Version
He who has
My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will
be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”


3. John 15:10
◦New King James Version
If you keep My
commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s
commandments and abide in His love.

4. Acts 15:24
◦New King James
Version
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you
with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the
law” —to whom we gave no such commandment—)

5. 1 Corinthians 7:19

◦New King James Version
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is
nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

6. 1
Timothy 6:14
◦New King James Version
that you keep this commandment
without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing,

7. 1
John 2:3
◦New King James Version
The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this
we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

8. 1 John 2:4

◦New King James Version
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His
commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

9. 1 John 3:22

◦New King James Version
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because
we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.


10. 1 John 3:24
◦New King James Version
The Spirit of Truth and
the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in
him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given
us.

11. 1 John 5:2
◦New King James Version
By this we know that
we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.


12. 1 John 5:3
◦New King James Version
For this is the love of
God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.


13. Revelation 12:17
◦New King James Version
And the dragon was
enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring,
who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


14. Revelation 14:12
◦New King James Version
Here is the
patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the
faith of Jesus.

And here is confirmation from Jesus of keeping Ten
commandments as requirement.

Matthew 19:16-19
New International
Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what
good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is
good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life,
keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied,
“‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you
shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love
your neighbor as yourself.’

Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is
laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth
good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Why even bother? In my experience with Christians, they have no interest in keeping God's commandments. It doesn't matter how many times to quote Scripture to prove that God wants obedience, other Christians will argue that we're not under the law and therefore we don't have to obey God, and they will take verses out of context. I've only come across a few Christians who believe in obedience, but the vast majority don't. That's why Jesus said only few will enter heaven. Don't waste your time debating this issue. It will only drive you mad.

 

[meshak]

Why even bother? In my experience with Christians, they have no interest in keeping God's commandments. It doesn't matter how many times to quote Scripture to prove that God wants obedience, other Christians will argue that we're not under the law and therefore we don't have to obey God, and they will take verses out of context. I've only come across a few Christians who believe in obedience, but the vast majority don't. That's why Jesus said only few will enter heaven. Don't waste your time debating this issue. It will only drive you mad.

Why bother? because most trinity believing "Christians" are misrepresenting Jesus as hypocrites that He plays favoritism for His followers.

The world needs to know that Jesus is not hypocrite.

blessings.

I agree with the need for fruits Meshak, but lets not be naive, there are hypocrites in every church ^_^.

Meshak, you do need to grasp that Jesus is God. It is what separates Christianity from other religions. Remove Christ's diety and you remove His power / impact / significance. He becomes just a good person / creation that died for us. How would His sacrifice be worthy for us if that were the case? See, it just opens the door for major error and being stumbled one-day in your Christian walk.

Scripture is crystal clear that Jesus is deity / Godhead. The semantics of the trinity as to how you see it / imagine it will be opinion driven, but if anyone disputes that Jesus is God....they are either not a Christian or a naive Christian (no offence).

John 10:30 I and my Father are one, Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. John 14:9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.

There is absolutely NO debate or discussion on the matter. It is the foundation of Christianity. It is something we can only truly grasp if we are saved.

For further reading...as you seem to have already overlooked the above verses for some reason <_< ....
[SIZE=10pt]John 20:27-29, 2 Peter 1:1, Titus 2:12b-14[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]John 1:1-3, 14[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]Hebrews 1:8[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]Isaiah 9:6[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]John 5:18[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]John 10:33[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]John 8:58-59[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]Revelation 22:12-13[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]Revelation 1:8[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]Colossians 1:16-17[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]John 1:3[/SIZE], [SIZE=10pt]Isaiah 44:24[/SIZE].

Not even one who are true servants are hypocrites. You are greatly mistaken. If we are not true servants, we will not inherit God's kingdom.

Trinity belivers are practcing lipservice. Trinity doctrine is cover up for their superficial faith. Calvinism is another one of those. Calvin practiced violent faith too. RCC started from the beginning of thir organization and the protestants are following her.

The organization will not change; that's why Jesus says to come out of Babylon. You should come out of deceptive organizations. Jesus says we know them by their fruit. why dont you take Jseus' word seriously and come out of her?

Jesus was seen by men. The Father is seen by those in heaven, and the Son as well, at His right hand. The Holy Spirit is the invisible person in the trinity. We are off topic now, by the way.


'cannot do nothing' is a double negative. It means 'can do something'. :unsure:
I already explained this to you. Now you are arguing just to be right? What Jesus said while on the earth, He said as man. He humbled Himself and gave up His glory to come in the flesh. We are off topic now.

Please stop nitpicking my poor English. English is my second language. I dont catch my broken English right away. You should know what I meant.

Pride is enemy of Jesus' followers.

blessings.

And what on earth does that mean? Basically, you're saying, are you not, that if 'bits' of scripture doesn't line up with how you read other bits....the bits that show 'lover characters' (whatever that means), you ignore them. Because you have blatantly refused to deal with the VERY clear scriptures I gave that refute your beliefs.
If you cannot deal with all of scripture, making all of it harmonize...then you don't follow Jesus. It's HIS book.

If we cannot read the whole context of the bible, we are not serious Jesus' followers. Whole context of the bible is God and Jesus' love. It should read it accordingly. We should not be hypocrites with our witnessing to the world as Jesus' servants.

 

[KingJ]

Not even one who are true servants are hypocrites. You are greatly mistaken. If we are not true servants, we will not inherit God's kingdom.

Trinity belivers are practcing lipservice. Trinity doctrine is cover up for their superficial faith. Calvinism is another one of those. Calvin practiced violent faith too. RCC started from the beginning of thir organization and the protestants are following her.

The organization will not change; that's why Jesus says to come out of Babylon. You should come out of deceptive organizations. Jesus says we know them by their fruit. why dont you take Jseus' word seriously and come out of her?

Meshak, you do need to study up on others beliefs before criticizing them.

 

[meshak]

Meshak, you do need to study up on others beliefs before criticizing them.

You do need to know what it takes to be His followers. Your loyalty seem to belong to your doctrine and your organization. Who is your Lord? My Lord is Jesus, dear.

 

[Stephen100]

Why bother? because most trinity believing "Christians" are misrepresenting Jesus as hypocrites that He plays favoritism for His followers.

The world needs to know that Jesus is not hypocrite.

blessings.


Not even one who are true servants are hypocrites. You are greatly mistaken. If we are not true servants, we will not inherit God's kingdom.

Trinity belivers are practcing lipservice. Trinity doctrine is cover up for their superficial faith. Calvinism is another one of those. Calvin practiced violent faith too. RCC started from the beginning of thir organization and the protestants are following her.

The organization will not change; that's why Jesus says to come out of Babylon. You should come out of deceptive organizations. Jesus says we know them by their fruit. why dont you take Jseus' word seriously and come out of her?


Please stop nitpicking my poor English. English is my second language. I dont catch my broken English right away. You should know what I meant.

Pride is enemy of Jesus' followers.

blessings.


If we cannot read the whole context of the bible, we are not serious Jesus' followers. Whole context of the bible is God and Jesus' love. It should read it accordingly. We should not be hypocrites with our witnessing to the world as Jesus' servants.

I believe the Trinity is Biblical and that Jesus made it clear that he is God. Denying Jesus' divinity is very dangerous.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus was seen by men. The Father is seen by those in heaven, and the Son as well, at His right hand. The Holy Spirit is the invisible person in the trinity. We are off topic now, by the way.

Is he really? And how do you arrive at that conclusion? I don't see anything in this verse that describes a bodily form sitting on the throne of GOD:

And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and [one] sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and [there was] a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. Revelation 4:2-3

Can you show me anywhere else in scripture where the father has a bodily form that is not the lord of hosts, or the angel of the lord (these being terms for the logos)?

 

[meshak]

I believe the Trinity is Biblical and that Jesus made it clear that he is God. Denying Jesus' divinity is very dangerous.

Suit yourself following your organizational doctrine. My Lord is Jesus, not any organization, nor their doctrines.

 

[KingJ]

You do need to know what it takes to be His followers. Your loyalty seem to belong to your doctrine and your organization. Who is your Lord? My Lord is Jesus, dear.

Is He? Why can't you call Him God? after I gave you half the bible in proof? I know Muslims and Pagans that don't call Him God. If we can't agree on this foundation of Christianity....It makes all other discussion with you pointless.

 

[williemac]

Is He? Why can't you call Him God? after I gave you half the bible in proof? I know Muslims and Pagans that don't call Him God. If we can't agree on this foundation of Christianity....It makes all other discussion with you pointless.

I would like his answer as well. After all, Thomas called Him "my Lord and my God".

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I would like his answer as well. After all, Thomas called Him "my Lord and my God".

And Jesus didn't rebuke him for being an idolator. Jesus was very coy about who he was; he wanted all attention directed towards the unseen father.

 

[Stephen100]

Suit yourself following your organizational doctrine. My Lord is Jesus, not any organization, nor their doctrines.

I don't follow an organized doctrine, I follow the word of God. The fact that you have to come on here and attack other Christians is proof that you are insecure.

 

[meshak]

I don't follow an organized doctrine, I follow the word of God. The fact that you have to come on here and attack other Christians is proof that you are insecure.

I am Jesus' servant. So called "christians" are misrepresenting Jesus with theire fruit of violent.

I have right to defend Jesus' word. Tinity churches are misrepresenting Jesus with their hypocritical practice to the world.

I am secure with Jesus, that's why I can fight aginst deceptive faith with help of HS.

Is He? Why can't you call Him God? after I gave you half the bible in proof? I know Muslims and Pagans that don't call Him God. If we can't agree on this foundation of Christianity....It makes all other discussion with you pointless.

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. Trinity churches dont have godly and faithful fruit they suppose to have.

Why dont you use Jesus' wisome if He is your Lord? He is your God but He is not your Lord? Your faith is strange, friend.