Keeping Jesus' commands is requirement for salvation, not the doctrine of trinity

[williemac]

I am Jesus' servant. So called "christians" are misrepresenting Jesus with theire fruit of violent.

I have right to defend Jesus' word. Tinity churches are misrepresenting Jesus with their hypocritical practice to the world.

I am secure with Jesus, that's why I can fight aginst deceptive faith with help of HS.


Jesus says we know them by their fruit. Trinity churches dont have godly and faithful fruit they suppose to have.

Why dont you use Jesus' wisome if He is your Lord? He is your God but He is not your Lord? Your faith is strange, friend.

These words reveal much about who we are dealing with. It's just not worth contending against this kind of bigotry.

But I will say that people tend to reflect their image of God. Yours is an intolerant and judgmental God, therefore you are the same. We do not know the same Jesus. My Jesus promised that those who have faith in Him would not come under judgment (John5:24). Therefore, coming under your judgment is of no consequence to me.

 

[meshak]

These words reveal much about who we are dealing with. It's just not worth contending against this kind of bigotry.

But I will say that people tend to reflect their image of God. Yours is an intolerant and judgmental God, therefore you are the same. We do not know the same Jesus. My Jesus promised that those who have faith in Him would not come under judgment (John5:24). Therefore, coming under your judgment is of no consequence to me.

What bigotry?

Are you saying I am begot? How am I being begot.

If you reflect God and Jesus, you will not practice ungodly and militant faith. RCC established trinity and you are carrying out her agenda of deception. You guys are no different from SIM who just got kicked out.

RCC was and is militant and so was John Calvin who was and is one of very major leaders of protestant.

We know them by their fruit, says Jesus. Trinity churches are not producing godly fruit, dear.

You should take heed of Jesus' word, instead of your leaders or doctrines.

thanks.

 

[williemac]

What bigotry?

Are you saying I am begot? How am I being begot.

If you reflect God and Jesus, you will not practice ungodly and militant faith. RCC established trinity and you are carrying out her agenda of deception. You guys are no different from SIM who just got kicked out.

RCC was and is militant and so was John Calvin who was and is one of very major leaders of protestant.

We know them by their fruit, says Jesus. Trinity churches are not producing godly fruit, dear.

You should take heed of Jesus' word, instead of your leaders or doctrines.

thanks.

Maybe a loose use of the word bigot, but when a person writes off a whole group like that...the shoe fits. This whole "you guys" attitude, as if we all are part of some collective consciousness and all think exactly the same. This whole "all trinity people are ungodly"....based on what? You have some kind of phsychic insight into the hearts of every sinlge person who believes in the trinity?

No sir, Jesus said "do not judge according to appearances, but judge with righteous judgment". I regret to inform you that your judgment and condemnation towards perfect strangers is completely inappropriate, unfounded, ungodly, and unrighteous.

You do not own the truth. It is neither yours nor mine. But if one takes ownership, he can certianly be offended at opposition. You are showing both offense and bitterness towards those who oppose your doctrine. I am really sorry that I am making this about you. I don't usually get personal, but I really feel the need to tell you why your accusations are both unfair and inappropriate.

For your information, I have been studying scripture on my own for more than a decade and a half. I don't believe what I am told to believe, but make a point of achieving my own understanding of truth as I perceive it through prayer, meditation, and reading.
Do you think I am the only one who does this? I certainly don't. Therefore you make assumptions about people that they are blindly following leaders. I will not assume this about you, but I surely suspect it, my friend.

 

[Stephen100]

I am Jesus' servant. So called "christians" are misrepresenting Jesus with theire fruit of violent.

I have right to defend Jesus' word. Tinity churches are misrepresenting Jesus with their hypocritical practice to the world.

I am secure with Jesus, that's why I can fight aginst deceptive faith with help of HS.


Jesus says we know them by their fruit. Trinity churches dont have godly and faithful fruit they suppose to have.

Why dont you use Jesus' wisome if He is your Lord? He is your God but He is not your Lord? Your faith is strange, friend.

Believe what you want. I don't really think people care what you say because each one of us have our own interpretation of Scripture.

 

[meshak]

Believe what you want. I don't really think people care what you say because each one of us have our own interpretation of Scripture.

You ought to interpret according to the context of Jesus' teachings.

It is so sad that you cannot see core of Jesus' teachings.

Maybe a loose use of the word bigot, but when a person writes off a whole group like that...the shoe fits. This whole "you guys" attitude, as if we all are part of some collective consciousness and all think exactly the same. This whole "all trinity people are ungodly"....based on what? You have some kind of phsychic insight into the hearts of every sinlge person who believes in the trinity?

No sir, Jesus said "do not judge according to appearances, but judge with righteous judgment". I regret to inform you that your judgment and condemnation towards perfect strangers is completely inappropriate, unfounded, ungodly, and unrighteous.

You do not own the truth. It is neither yours nor mine. But if one takes ownership, he can certianly be offended at opposition. You are showing both offense and bitterness towards those who oppose your doctrine. I am really sorry that I am making this about you. I don't usually get personal, but I really feel the need to tell you why your accusations are both unfair and inappropriate.

For your information, I have been studying scripture on my own for more than a decade and a half. I don't believe what I am told to believe, but make a point of achieving my own understanding of truth as I perceive it through prayer, meditation, and reading.
Do you think I am the only one who does this? I certainly don't. Therefore you make assumptions about people that they are blindly following leaders. I will not assume this about you, but I surely suspect it, my friend.

So militant interpretation is righteous judgment? not!

You obvious dont own the truth with your militant practice.

too sad that you have been studying the Scripture for so long, yet still cannot see the heart of Jesus' teachings of "love".

I know you are not the only one, in fact, most trinity believers believe the way you do. And it is vast majority. Remember what Jesus says, narrow is the gate. Trinity believers are in the wide gate with majority's support. Protestants are RCC's daughters.

 

[Stephen100]

You ought to interpret according to the context of Jesus' teachings.

It is so sad that you cannot see core of Jesus' teachings.


So militant interpretation is righteous judgment? not!

You obvious dont own the truth with your militant practice.

too sad that you have been studying the Scripture for so long, yet still cannot see the heart of Jesus' teachings of "love".

I know you are not the only one, in fact, most trinity believers believe the way you do. And it is vast majority. Remember what Jesus says, narrow is the gate. Trinity believers are in the wide gate with majority's support. Protestants are RCC's daughters.

Take your own advice

 

[williemac]

You ought to interpret according to the context of Jesus' teachings.

It is so sad that you cannot see core of Jesus' teachings.


So militant interpretation is righteous judgment? not!

You obvious dont own the truth with your militant practice.

too sad that you have been studying the Scripture for so long, yet still cannot see the heart of Jesus' teachings of "love".

I know you are not the only one, in fact, most trinity believers believe the way you do. And it is vast majority. Remember what Jesus says, narrow is the gate. Trinity believers are in the wide gate with majority's support. Protestants are RCC's daughters.

If you recall, Paul was very harsh in his rebuke and exhortation to the Galatians. If you recall, Jesus was very harsh in His rebuke of the Pharisees. You can call this militant if you will, but I did use a certain amount of restraint in my words to you, apologizing for my objection to your personal method of judgment. You are now seeing what you have predetermined you will see. There was nothing militant in my attitude. I am defending the truth, right or wrong. My motives are no different than what you see your motives to be. But it is ironic that you have demonized and condemned myself and others by association and yet call me the militant one.

I agree with what you say about love, by the way, but I guess a Pharisee could have used that one on Jesus as well. As I pointed out, you have a highly negative attitude toward an entire genre of Christianity, as though we all have all the same faults and errors. This is how bigotry is defined. It is when an entire group of people are rejected by virtue of their association. It does not take into account any kind of individual merit. You simply have a category that allows you to run roughshod over everyone in it. And somehow you think it is you who are judging accurately. I am simply saying that you are not using any kind of reasonable perameters for making your judgment. It is unfair. And I still suspect you are reflecting your leaders, as you accuse others of doing.

 

[meshak]

Take your own advice

I dont advocate militant faith.

If you recall, Paul was very harsh in his rebuke and exhortation to the Galatians. If you recall, Jesus was very harsh in His rebuke of the Pharisees. You can call this militant if you will, but I did use a certain amount of restraint in my words to you, apologizing for my objection to your personal method of judgment. You are now seeing what you have predetermined you will see. There was nothing militant in my attitude. I am defending the truth, right or wrong. My motives are no different than what you see your motives to be. But it is ironic that you have demonized and condemned myself and others by association and yet call me the militant one.

I agree with what you say about love, by the way, but I guess a Pharisee could have used that one on Jesus as well. As I pointed out, you have a highly negative attitude toward an entire genre of Christianity, as though we all have all the same faults and errors. This is how bigotry is defined. It is when an entire group of people are rejected by virtue of their association. It does not take into account any kind of individual merit. You simply have a category that allows you to run roughshod over everyone in it. And somehow you think it is you who are judging accurately. I am simply saying that you are not using any kind of reasonable perameters for making your judgment. It is unfair. And I still suspect you are reflecting your leaders, as you accuse others of doing.

It is militant because most trinity belivers advocate killing your enemy against Jesus' command of "love your enemy".

I am refelcting Jesus' teaching of love, unlike trinity churches militant faith advocating killing your enemy like the rest of the world.

You keep dismissing so many of Jesus' word in your faith. It seems very clear that your Lord is not Jesus.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

meshak, you can't answer the question why Jesus didn't rebuke Thomas for calling him 'My lord and my GOD'. If Jesus wasn't GOD he should have rebuked Thomas for being an idolator. It's in the bible; why aren't you following what it says?

 

[meshak]

meshak, you can't answer the question why Jesus didn't rebuke Thomas for calling him 'My lord and my GOD'. If Jesus wasn't GOD he should have rebuked Thomas for being an idolator. It's in the bible; why aren't you following what it says?

Because Thomas did not mean calling Jesus is God. It is obvious to me.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Because Thomas did not mean calling Jesus is God. It is obvious to me.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed. John 20:28-29

Seems pretty obvious to me he meant exactly what he said. And Jesus had no problem with it.

 

[meshak]

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed. John 20:28-29

Seems pretty obvious to me he meant exactly what he said. And Jesus had no problem with it.

Ok, twist away against Jesus' word.

 

[Rach1370]

If we cannot read the whole context of the bible, we are not serious Jesus' followers. Whole context of the bible is God and Jesus' love. It should read it accordingly. We should not be hypocrites with our witnessing to the world as Jesus' servants.

I completely agree that we need to read the whole bible and keep it in context.

That is why I cannot understand how on earth you have arrived where you are. I cannot understand how you take passages that speak so very clearly of how Jesus' love was shown and given for us, and dismiss them as not relevant to what Jesus himself said!

Jesus consistently showed throughout his ministry, that people were slaves to sin, and he was not. What we could not do, he could. That is was only through and in him that we were to be saved.

Nowhere, not once, not ever does he say we can be saved through our own effort. Does he speak of how we should live once we are in him? Sure...but you will not be able to find a verse that says "salvation comes through your own hard work".

Jesus repeatedly says "In me"..."In me"...."In me" (Matt 18:6; Luke 22:37; John 6:35, 56; John 7:38; John 11:25-26; John 12:44, 36; John 14:1-14.................it goes on and on and on....but one in particular proves my point:


5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. (John 15:5, ESV)


Works do not BRING salvation...they COME from salvation. Once you understand that Jesus says this again and again, then the passages Paul writes flow sweetly along after it. That is keeping the bible in context, rather than your approach, which seems to be 'ignore what doesn't suit'.

 

[meshak]

I completely agree that we need to read the whole bible and keep it in context.

That is why I cannot understand how on earth you have arrived where you are. I cannot understand how you take passages that speak so very clearly of how Jesus' love was shown and given for us, and dismiss them as not relevant to what Jesus himself said!

Jesus consistently showed throughout his ministry, that people were slaves to sin, and he was not. What we could not do, he could. That is was only through and in him that we were to be saved.

Nowhere, not once, not ever does he say we can be saved through our own effort. Does he speak of how we should live once we are in him? Sure...but you will not be able to find a verse that says "salvation comes through your own hard work".

Jesus repeatedly says "In me"..."In me"...."In me" (Matt 18:6; Luke 22:37; John 6:35, 56; John 7:38; John 11:25-26; John 12:44, 36; John 14:1-14.................it goes on and on and on....but one in particular proves my point:


5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. (John 15:5, ESV)


Works do not BRING salvation...they COME from salvation. Once you understand that Jesus says this again and again, then the passages Paul writes flow sweetly along after it. That is keeping the bible in context, rather than your approach, which seems to be 'ignore what doesn't suit'.

You dont seem to be able to know what kind of fruit your organizations are producing. All you have to do is open your heart to see the reality of trinity believing churches.

Jesus says simply and clearly that we know them by their fruit.

 

[Rach1370]

You dont seem to be able to know what kind of fruit your organizations are producing. All you have to do is open your heart to see the reality of trinity believing churches.

Jesus says simply and clearly that we know them by their fruit.

Friend, you don't know me, or my fruit, or the fruit of my "organization".
And since you do not know these things, it must...as it always should in any case....come back to the scriptures.

And apart from repeating a few things ....that you 'follow Jesus'....that you 'know people by their fruit'...etc, etc, you haven't, actually, produced any scriptures backing your suppositions, or any showing why the ones I've previously put up are wrong.

You cannot deny the scriptures I've posted by saying "well, I know you by your fruit"! I haven't given you any of my 'fruit' to judge me by....I've given you the bible, plain and simple. So I'm afraid unless you can actually show biblically where Jesus says that we must work to gain salvation, your arguments won't come to anything, I'm afraid.

 

[Foreigner]

You dont seem to be able to know what kind of fruit your organizations are producing. All you have to do is open your heart to see the reality of trinity believing churches.

Jesus says simply and clearly that we know them by their fruit.

-- No offense Meshak, but you are a newcomer.

You have no idea who Rachel is, what she believes, or the intimacy of her relationship with Jesus.

You are not speaking from any position of knowledge or authority when you talk about what fruits are being produced by whom.

I however have been here almost three years and have listened to her, been challenged by her, learned from her, and been inspired by her.

You are simply clueless.

 

[meshak]

-- No offense Meshak, but you are a newcomer.

You have no idea who Rachel is, what she believes, or the intimacy of her relationship with Jesus.

You are not speaking from any position of knowledge or authority when you talk about what fruits are being produced by whom.

I however have been here almost three years and have listened to her, been challenged by her, learned from her, and been inspired by her.

You are simply clueless.

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. I am speaking about Trinity churches' fruit which is so obvious and too many are ignoring this obvious things. She is just another one of them.

Friend, you don't know me, or my fruit, or the fruit of my "organization".
And since you do not know these things, it must...as it always should in any case....come back to the scriptures.

And apart from repeating a few things ....that you 'follow Jesus'....that you 'know people by their fruit'...etc, etc, you haven't, actually, produced any scriptures backing your suppositions, or any showing why the ones I've previously put up are wrong.

You cannot deny the scriptures I've posted by saying "well, I know you by your fruit"! I haven't given you any of my 'fruit' to judge me by....I've given you the bible, plain and simple. So I'm afraid unless you can actually show biblically where Jesus says that we must work to gain salvation, your arguments won't come to anything, I'm afraid.

Trinity churches' fruit is obvious and thats what I have been talking about, and you have been repeatedly disregarding.

 

[Rach1370]

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. I am speaking about Trinity churches' fruit which is so obvious and too many are ignoring this obvious things. She is just another one of them.



Trinity churches' fruit is obvious and thats what I have been talking about, and you have been repeatedly disregarding.

Okay....here's 3 things I know about you:

1. You never back up your thoughts with scripture
2. You repeat things over and over....even though you don't back them up with scripture and others have clearly given you scripture
3. You believe you are qualified to know everything about everyone...when clearly only God can do that.

Conclusion:
I should stop wasting my time. See ya.

 

[Stephen100]

Because Thomas did not mean calling Jesus is God. It is obvious to me.

Is that the best answer you can give lol. Thomas called Jesus God and Jesus never rebuked him. You can ignore this all you like, but the truth rebukes you.

I completely agree that we need to read the whole bible and keep it in context.

That is why I cannot understand how on earth you have arrived where you are. I cannot understand how you take passages that speak so very clearly of how Jesus' love was shown and given for us, and dismiss them as not relevant to what Jesus himself said!

Jesus consistently showed throughout his ministry, that people were slaves to sin, and he was not. What we could not do, he could. That is was only through and in him that we were to be saved.

Nowhere, not once, not ever does he say we can be saved through our own effort. Does he speak of how we should live once we are in him? Sure...but you will not be able to find a verse that says "salvation comes through your own hard work".

Jesus repeatedly says "In me"..."In me"...."In me" (Matt 18:6; Luke 22:37; John 6:35, 56; John 7:38; John 11:25-26; John 12:44, 36; John 14:1-14.................it goes on and on and on....but one in particular proves my point:


5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. (John 15:5, ESV)


Works do not BRING salvation...they COME from salvation. Once you understand that Jesus says this again and again, then the passages Paul writes flow sweetly along after it. That is keeping the bible in context, rather than your approach, which seems to be 'ignore what doesn't suit'.

You must realize that there is true faith and there is also dead faith. If a Christian picks and chooses what commandments he or she wants to obey, then how can they have true faith? The Bible tells us over and over again to keep God's commandments and to repent of sin. True faith will compel a Christian to obey God. But dead faith will result in willfull disobedience. I come across so many Christians today who just pick and choose what they want to obey, yet they think they are destined for heaven because they have faith. They don't understand that dead faith won't get them into heaven. True faith results in obedience.

 

[Rach1370]

Is that the best answer you can give lol. Thomas called Jesus God and Jesus never rebuked him. You can ignore this all you like, but the truth rebukes you.



You must realize that there is true faith and there is also dead faith. If a Christian picks and chooses what commandments he or she wants to obey, then how can they have true faith? The Bible tells us over and over again to keep God's commandments and to repent of sin. True faith will compel a Christian to obey God. But dead faith will result in willfull disobedience. I come across so many Christians today who just pick and choose what they want to obey, yet they think they are destined for heaven because they have faith. They don't understand that dead faith won't get them into heaven. True faith results in obedience.

Yes, I do know of what you're talking about. Although I think it is more complicated than just 'picking and choosing which commandments' a person follows. The gospel of grace frees us from the law. That said, however, the NT is full of things that as redeemed people, we should be walking towards, striving towards. Too often I think people think "grace covers it, I don't need to worry about it, I can live as I choose". I think this shows the true state of their hearts...unredeemed. When we are saved, a transformation happens in our lives...one that gives us the desire to follow God's laws...that being to love God with all our beings, and to love others more than ourselves.