Kenosis False Teaching

[101G]

Some things are inexcusable 101G. People using terms like incarnation, hypostatic-union, trinity, god-man and so on, not one of them have a clue of what they are talking about, not one single person. And they throw these non-biblical terms around as though they are just to be accepted and taken for granted. And then, Christophany went on to talk about the necessity of Jesus being God in order to effectuate the Atonement. But, for the life of him, he will never be able to prove it Scripturally, or explain it rationally.
Some positions, 101G, are not worthy of any respect or dignity, but require rebuke and admonishment.

that's why our Lord said, "forgive them for they KNOW "NOT" what they do". and we are to follow his lead, we must bare with the weak. as the Holy Ghost said, by way of his apostle,
1 Corinthians 9:19 "For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more."
1 Corinthians 9:20 "And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;"
1 Corinthians 9:21 "To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law."
1 Corinthians 9:22 "To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." (BINGO, that's the whole ball game).
1 Corinthians 9:23 "And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you."
1 Corinthians 9:24 "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain."
1 Corinthians 9:25 "And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible."
1 Corinthians 9:26 "I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:"
1 Corinthians 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

so as a teacher DNB, we must be "temperate in all things". just imagine if the Lord Jesus gave up on you and I? so we owe the Lord, and our fellow brothers and sisters.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[DNB]

And maybe sometimes a gentle nudge works just as well.
It's not anyones fault. Except the ones who originally tried to divide the church into a million pieces to weaken it.
It's no different than the media. This one says this and some follow.
This one says that and some follow.
But Truth is Truth and with so much propaganda and self righteousness hitting the minds,
whether by doctrine or tv station.. it's hard to find it, unless one is willing to seriously dig.
And everyone has been sent on a wild goose chase for what 2000 years now?
It's not anyone's fault. We just need to be patient and willing to listen. Explain your understanding.
And sometimes you can make a difference, other times you can't.
Jesus had the same problem, and he was God!
If they don't understand Him, how are we ever going to understand each other?
Patience, Longsuffering... that's what those fruits are for..

HUGS

You may have a point - one can attract more bees with honey, than with vinegar. But, as the author of Ecclesiastes stated, there is a time for compassion and a time for rebuke.
...oh no Ziggy, did you just say that Jesus was God? Look, I'm sorry, I am going to have to take my 'likes' back.
I thought that by your last two posts, that you were rejecting that notion. The trinity for sure, it sounded like, but you also seemed to stress that God was the Father, and the Jesus acted by way of the Spirit.
Please don't tell me that I was wrong?

 

[DNB]

that's why our Lord said, "forgive them for they KNOW "NOT" what they do". and we are to follow his lead, we must bare with the weak. as the Holy Ghost said, by way of his apostle,
1 Corinthians 9:19 "For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more."
1 Corinthians 9:20 "And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;"
1 Corinthians 9:21 "To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law."
1 Corinthians 9:22 "To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." (BINGO, that's the whole ball game).
1 Corinthians 9:23 "And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you."
1 Corinthians 9:24 "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain."
1 Corinthians 9:25 "And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible."
1 Corinthians 9:26 "I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:"
1 Corinthians 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

so as a teacher DNB, we must be "temperate in all things". just imagine if the Lord Jesus gave up on you and I? so we owe the Lord, and our fellow brothers and sisters.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

That's fine, good verses that you used. But, 101G, don't overlook the fact that there is an element of offense here. Calling a man God, is enough to get one stoned in some places, not to mention that, that was the exact prescription under the Levitical Law for blasphemy.
Patience is a virtue, and a very effective one, but such blatant disregard for Scripture and wisdom , requires more than just a wrist-slap.

 

[Enoch111]

And WHEN was it that John beheld His glory? Do you remember reading about it?

By quoting that passage you just confirmed that kenosis is heresy.

 

[Enoch111]

I don't believe there are three personages of God.

"Personages" is what the Mormons believe. "Persons" is what Bible-believing Christians believe.

So now you have to make up your mind. If you reject the Trinity (God in three Persons) you side with the heretics and the cultists.

 

[101G]

That's fine, good verses that you used. But, 101G, don't overlook the fact that there is an element of offense here. Calling a man God, is enough to get one stoned in some places, not to mention that, that was the exact prescription under the Levitical Law for blasphemy.
Patience is a virtue, and a very effective one, but such blatant disregard for Scripture and wisdom , requires more than just a wrist-slap.

was we not outlaws? do we not have our picture down at the local post office with the apostles?.... (smile). was we not forgiven? listen 1 Timothy 1:13 "Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief."

we all had our pictures at the post office once before, but I always remembered this scripture, Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

FORGIVE, or your Father in heaven will not FORGIVE you.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Ziggy]

You may have a point - one can attract more bees with honey, than with vinegar. But, as the author of Ecclesiastes stated, there is a time for compassion and a time for rebuke.
...oh no Ziggy, did you just say that Jesus was God? Look, I'm sorry, I am going to have to take my 'likes' back.
I thought that by your last two posts, that you were rejecting that notion. The trinity for sure, it sounded like, but you also seemed to stress that God was the Father, and the Jesus acted by way of the Spirit.
Please don't tell me that I was wrong?

If you must.. aw well..
We are to have the mind of Christ.. let this mind be in you.. it's God's Spirit that was in Jesus' mind.. wisdom, understanding.
Jesus is God's heart.. made flesh.. The Son of God is God's heart his Love that walked in the flesh.
And the Body that God fashioned for himself is the vehicle by which he showed us his will. His heart and Mind through the Body.
performing miracles, healing, giving sight, opening ears, ..
Jesus the Man made in the image and likeness of God.. is God.

I'm going to miss those likes brother..
How about a hug then?

HUGS

 

[DNB]

was we not outlaws? do we not have our picture down at the local post office with the apostles?.... (smile). was we not forgiven? listen 1 Timothy 1:13 "Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief."

we all had our pictures at the post office once before, but I always remembered this scripture, Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

FORGIVE, or your Father in heaven will not FORGIVE you.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

God only forgives if one repents (for arguments sake). One must renounce their former ways, as Paul did, in order to obtain mercy. Such statements that are as radical as these guys are professing, who are old enough to know better, and informed enough to know better, need to be dealt with accordingly. Do you detect a sense of shame or reservation in any of them? They are asserting facts that cannot be proven, using terminology that is nowhere to be found in Scripture. Demanding that people believe things that they can't even comprehend themselves. Why are you trying to mitigate such audacity and vain imagination?

 

[Ziggy]

"Personages" is what the Mormons believe. "Persons" is what Bible-believing Christians believe.

So now you have to make up your mind. If you reject the Trinity (God in three Persons) you side with the heretics and the cultists.

I guess I would be a heretic then..
I don't see that word in the Bible though..
I'll keep looking..
Heresy is any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs or customs, in particular the accepted beliefs of a church or religious organization.
oh there it is...

Ok I'm a heretic.. if it makes you feel better..
I'm not the establishments sheep. I belong to the Lord. He is my Shepherd.

HUGS

 

[DNB]

If you must.. aw well..
We are to have the mind of Christ.. let this mind be in you.. it's God's Spirit that was in Jesus' mind.. wisdom, understanding.
Jesus is God's heart.. made flesh.. The Son of God is God's heart his Love that walked in the flesh.
And the Body that God fashioned for himself is the vehicle by which he showed us his will. His heart and Mind through the Body.
performing miracles, healing, giving sight, opening ears, ..
Jesus the Man made in the image and likeness of God.. is God.

I'm going to miss those likes brother..
How about a hug then?

HUGS

Sorry girlfriend, I cannot overtly like or hug such convictions that, to me, are dangerously erroneous...for what would my peers think .
Either way, thank you for the candor, and I'm sure that I will find other reasons to give you either a like or a hug, in the future...!

 

[Ziggy]

Sorry girlfriend, I cannot overtly like or hug such convictions that, to me, are dangerously erroneous...for what would my peers think .
Either way, thank you for the candor, and I'm sure that I will find other reasons to give you either a like or a hug, in the future...!

How do you see it then?
Explain your undersanding to me.. maybe I'm not seeing something

how about popcorn.. wanna share some of that?

 

[101G]

One must renounce their former ways, as Paul did, in order to obtain mercy.

that takes time.
Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"Romans 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?"Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Such statements that are as radical as these guys are professing, who are old enough to know better, and informed enough to know better, need to be dealt with accordingly.

1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."1 Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

IT TAKES TIME.

Demanding that people believe things that they can't even comprehend themselves. Why are you trying to justify such audacity and vain imagination?

2 Timothy 4:1 "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;"
2 Timothy 4:2 "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine."
2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"
2 Timothy 4:4 "And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

that's why we're here, just preach and teach the gospel. in TIME someone will hear, even if it's just one.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

That's fine, good verses that you used. But, 101G, don't overlook the fact that there is an element of offense here. Calling a man God, is enough to get one stoned in some places, not to mention that, that was the exact prescription under the Levitical Law for blasphemy.
Patience is a virtue, and a very effective one, but such blatant disregard for Scripture and wisdom , requires more than just a wrist-slap.

And of course this was the reason why the Pharisees picked up stones to stone Jesus in John 8:59...because He had claimed to be God in John 8:58.

In John 10:31-33 we find this to be true...that the Pharisees wanted to stone Jesus because "thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

 

[DNB]

How do you see it then?
Explain your undersanding to me.. maybe I'm not seeing something

how about popcorn.. wanna share some of that?

I believe that to deify any other being than God the Father, is wholesale blasphemy.
Jesus was 200% man, that had absolutely no consciousness prior to 1 AD (6-4 BC). He is neither omnipotent, omniscient nor omnipresent, nor divine in any manner whatsoever.
But, just as Moses was a god to Pharaoh and the Israelites, and just as Timothy declared, Jesus is, and will be a god to us upon his second coming, and his enemies will be his footstool.
Christ was exalted to the right-hand side of the Father, a bestowal that was conferred upon him due to his love and obedience towards the Father. it was not an intrinsic obligation. In other words, God did not propitiate Himself in order to save mankind, that is is patently ludicrous. By the trespass of one man condemnation came to all, by one man all were made righteous. This is the requirement of the Atonement, not a god-man - of which there is no such thing.

Popcorn another time, thank you!

 

[DNB]

that takes time.
Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"Romans 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?"Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."


1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."1 Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

IT TAKES TIME.


2 Timothy 4:1 "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;"
2 Timothy 4:2 "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine."
2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"
2 Timothy 4:4 "And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

that's why we're here, just preach and teach the gospel. in TIME someone will hear, even if it's just one.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

I don't deny anything that you said, I just don't feel that they apply here. I strongly endorse calling a spade, a spade. Sometimes debating these issues can get so protracted that all that is left is to call out the fallacies in their arguments, which I did, ....with strong language.
You're being too delicate, no one goes up to a gang-banger and says, 'hey, stop fighting, be nice to one another', without getting a bleeding nose.
Naivete is not a virtue.

 

[justbyfaith]

@DNB,

How do you explain away the fact that Jesus claimed to be God in John 8:58?

C.S. Lewis set forth the proposition that because of His claim, He was either a liar on the level of the devil of hell, or a lunatic on the level of someone who thinks he is a poached egg; or else He is who He claimed to be.

Which of these, other than the last option in that choice pattern, do you believe Jesus to be?

 

[DNB]

And of course this was the reason why the Pharisees picked up stones to stone Jesus in John 8:59...because He had claimed to be God in John 8:58.

In John 10:31-33 we find this to be true...that the Pharisees wanted to stone Jesus because "thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

The first reason that they wanted to stone him was because they understood him to be placing himself before Abraham - the Patriarch of their religion. This is reasonable.
The 2nd time was due to a misunderstanding, and Jesus even corrected them on how he applied the term Son of God, giving it a sense in which God even called men gods.
Both notions of him claiming to be God, are dispelled within the context themselves.

 

[DNB]

@DNB,

How do you explain away the fact that Jesus claimed to be God in John 8:58?

C.S. Lewis set forth the proposition that because of His claim, He was either a liar on the level of the devil of hell, or a lunatic on the level of someone who thinks he is a poached egg; or else He is who He claimed to be.

Which of these, other than the last option in that choice pattern, do you believe Jesus to be?

I explained John 8:58 in my last post to you. He was claiming precedence over Abraham, the forefather of their faith - that's enough to raise the ire of the any Jew.
Jesus claimed to be the promised Messiah, nothing more. This, I accept.

 

[101G]

I just don't feel that they apply here.

salvation is not about your feelings, nor mine, but HIS.

I strongly endorse calling a spade, a spade.

you have no fight with me there.

Sometimes debating these issues can get so protracted that all that is left is to call out the fallacies in their arguments, which I did, ....with strong language.

agreed, but two words, andragogy, ... "TIME".
change comes slow. it's hard for us to change. the unknown is a fear we all must all overcome.

You're being too delicate, no one goes up to a gang-banger and says, 'hey, stop fighting, be nice to one another', without getting a bleeding nose.

how about nails hammered into one's hands and feet. is that better than a bloody nose?

so again, I ask be patience. refram from certian posts, only post when you think or believe you can make progress. time is on our side, for the LORD is with his called, both the learned and the unlearned.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Ziggy]

I believe that to deify any other being than God the Father, is wholesale blasphemy.
Jesus was 200% man, that had absolutely no consciousness prior to 1 AD (6-4 BC). He is neither omnipotent, omniscient nor omnipresent, nor divine in any manner whatsoever.
But, just as Moses was a god to Pharaoh and the Israelites, and just as Timothy declared, Jesus is, and will be a god to us upon his second coming, and his enemies will be his footstool.
Christ was exalted to the right-hand side of the Father, a bestowal that was conferred upon him due to his love and obedience towards the Father. it was not an intrinsic obligation. In other words, God did not propitiate Himself in order to save mankind, that is is patently ludicrous. By the trespass of one man condemnation came to all, by one man all were made righteous. This is the requirement of the Atonement, not a god-man - of which there is no such thing.

Popcorn another time, thank you!

Yes Jesus is the ARM of the Lord..

Isa 62:8 The LORD hath sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength, Surely I will no more give thy corn to be meat for thine enemies; and the sons of the stranger shall not drink thy wine, for the which thou hast laboured:
Isa 62:9 But they that have gathered it shall eat it, and praise the LORD; and they that have brought it together shall drink it in the courts of my holiness.

Psa 17:7 Shew thy marvellous lovingkindness, O thou that savest by thy right hand them which put their trust in thee from those that rise up against them.

Psa 48:10 According to thy name, O God, so is thy praise unto the ends of the earth: thy right hand is full of righteousness.

no popcorn

I love popcorn and I went to the store and got butter. finally.
popcorn is just no fun without butter.
So the other day I made some and put sugar and cinnamon on it and it was good,
but not as good as butter


Thank You for sharing..
I'm going to consider it.
I know what you mean about Moses being God to Pharaoh, but Moses was a "type" of the real that was and is to come.
I love that song..
Holy Holy Holy
Is the Lord God almighty
Which was and is and is to come

Amen
no hugs, no popcorn..
Handshake?