Last Day

[PeterAV]

Some things for the anti-rapture folks to ponder



The locusts are torturing everybody on earth except the 144,000 sealed ... so where is the christian church in Rev 9:4

Is God causing this agony against Christ's Church Rev 9:5

Does this sound like the glorious hope we are to have Rev 9:6

A third of mankind is killed in Rev 9:15

The rest of mankind still alive sure do not sound like Christians in Rev 9:20

The rest of mankind still alive sure do not sound like Christians in Rev 9:21

It would appear the Christians are no longer here on earth .

say what? Good grief! Arnie! You are getting SOO desperate.
With your same demented thought pattern, we can do the SAME thing with LOT and Noah.
You clearly FORGOT or remembered to forget that Lot was PREPERED and found an hiding place till the indignation be over.
The SAME thing with NOAH. He was preparing for about 100 years! But the destruction came anyway.
Just as Lot and Noah had a closet to run to a type of the waiting for the post trib return of the LORD.
So we also shall have safety when destruction happens to the rest of the world.
*******
It appears you do not know your Bible as well as you need to.
Proverbs ten verse thirty states; The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall NOT inhabit the earth.
See how the pre-trib fable is not Biblical?
*******
Take a look at Proverbs three verses twenty five and verse twenty six: Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the WICKED, when it cometh.
For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall KEEP thy foot from being taken.
*******
See that?
It is the WICKED that are TAKEN from among the just.
*******
Why would the Lord tell us "Do not Fear the desolation of the wicked when it comes" if we were not going to be here when it comes? The Lord says He shall keep you from being taken.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

PeterAV .... I think you are going wacko on us .... are you OK ??

In my post I showed that according to Revelation 9 everybody on earth is accounted for and the church is not there.

If you can find the church in Revelation 9 ..... please show us

 

[Trumpeter]

say what? Good grief! Arnie! You are getting SOO desperate.
With your same demented thought pattern, we can do the SAME thing with LOT and Noah.
You clearly FORGOT or remembered to forget that Lot was PREPERED and found an hiding place till the indignation be over.
The SAME thing with NOAH. He was preparing for about 100 years! But the destruction came anyway.
Just as Lot and Noah had a closet to run to a type of the waiting for the post trib return of the LORD.
So we also shall have safety when destruction happens to the rest of the world.
*******
It appears you do not know your Bible as well as you need to.
Proverbs ten verse thirty states; The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall NOT inhabit the earth.
See how the pre-trib fable is not Biblical?
*******
Take a look at Proverbs three verses twenty five and verse twenty six: Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the WICKED, when it cometh.
For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall KEEP thy foot from being taken.
*******
See that?
It is the WICKED that are TAKEN from among the just.
*******
Why would the Lord tell us "Do not Fear the desolation of the wicked when it comes" if we were not going to be here when it comes? The Lord says He shall keep you from being taken.

Greetings Peter,
Lot and his family were taken out BEFORE judgement fell on Sodom.
Noah and his family were taken out BEFORE the flood came upon the earth.
These are bad examples to try and build your case on.
God bless.

 

[PeterAV]

PeterAV .... rather than keep telling me how wrong I am .... how about you just come right out and explain how you intend to survive the wrath of the tribulation .... where will you be .... how will you buy and sell ... how will you be kept safe .... how does Jesus snatch up his church and bring us down at the same time ... and why would He anyway .... why not just leave us here for that split second

I have observed for years people who are vehemently anti-pre-trib-rapture never tell us what will happen ..... but claim to be experts on what will not happen ..... go figure.

And please spare us the long copy-and-paste of bible pages ...... make your case in your own words as best you can.

God has a solid history of removing his people before he sends his punishments .

What makes you feel he will not do so during the tribulation ?

Do you feel his wrath is upon the church as well as the world ?

By the way .... Matthew 24 is written to a Jewish audience and some of it was probably already fulfilled in 70 AD

Finally some good honest questions!
Kudoos on you!
But I did show the post tribulation truths from the word.
If you will not believe the verses that are clear, what makes me think that you will believe me?
*******
But because you asked, I will give you some good things straight from the word of God.
Less of Me and more of THEE!
*******

PeterAV .... rather than keep telling me how wrong I am .... how about you just come right out and explain how you intend to survive the wrath of the tribulation .... where will you be .... how will you buy and sell ... how will you be kept safe .... how does Jesus snatch up his church and bring us down at the same time ... and why would He anyway .... why not just leave us here for that split second

*******
Here are a few verses that helped me; may they also be a huge blessing for you and others!
#1 the first thing to learn is that it is the unjust that get taken not the just.
The righteous shall NEVER be removed: but the wicked shall NOT inhabit the earth. Proverbs ten verse thirty.
*******
The wicked are going to be TAKEN from among the just!
Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh.
For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall KEEP thy foot from being TAKEN!
Proverbs three verse twenty five and verse twenty six.
*******
Jesus confirms several times!
So shall it be in the end of the world: the angels shall come forth,
AND SEVER THE WICKED FROM AMONG THE JUST!
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
*******
Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who
prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.
For evil doers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, THEY SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH,
For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it
shall not be.
But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
Psalms thirty-seven verses seven to eleven.
*******
See that? It is the wicked that get severed from the just.
*******
Remember the parable of the wheat and the tares? These are Jesus own words yet again!
Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field....
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are
the children of the wicked one;
The enemy that sewed them is the devil; the harvest is THE END OF THE WORLD;
and the reapers are the ANGELS.
As therefore the TARES are gathered and burned in the fire; SO SHALL IT BE IN
THE END OF THE WORLD.
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall GATHER OUT of
his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity....
*******
THEN shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.
Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Matthew thirteen verses thirty six to forty-three.

*******
Again in Matthew thirteen, this time in verse thirty.
Let both grow together until the harvest: In the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers,
GATHER TOGETHER FIRST THE TARES, and bind them in bundles to burn them:
but gather the wheat into my barn.
*******
Obviously the barn signifies the millennial kingdom.
*******
I could use several more scriptures just for this one point, [the unrighteous are taken
and the righteous remain]but such is enough for now.
*******
Just as the children of Israel were protected from the plagues by the blood of the lamb on the doorpost,
so we, the Christian will be protected from the plagues to come upon the whole world to try them.
Just as Lot was protected and warned and OBEYED so too we the watching believer will be protected,
warned and Kept!
*******

how does Jesus snatch up his church and bring us down at the same time

Just the same as any dignitary meeting. The folk come out to meet the dignitary and take him to their homeland.
The very same word "to MEET" is in the book of ACTS twenty-eight, verse fifteen. Paul is now going to Rome here.
And from thence, when the brethren heard of us, they came to MEET us .....
And they continued on to ROME.
*******
See how simple it is?
The LORD come with a shout etc, the dead are resurrected, we that are alive are caught up with them,
we MEET the Lord in the air; the Lord continues his journey to the earth.
*******
No, his wrath is not on the church and you know that.
What a silly question.
We don't need to be TAKEN like the tares but will be hidden for a while until the indignation be over.
*******
The same God with the same mighty power to destroy the wicked also heals the righteous.
For, behold, the DAY cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that
do wickedly, shall be stubble: and THE day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts,
that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
BUT unto you that fear my name shall the SUN of righteousness arise with HEALING in his wings;
and ye shall go forth, and shall grow up as calves in a stall.
And ye shall TREAD DOWN the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the souls of your feet in the
DAY that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. Malachi four verses one to three.
*******
It is the unrighteous that get removed over to Armageddon.
*******

By the way .... Matthew 24 is written to a Jewish audience and some of it was probably already fulfilled in 70 AD

Grasping at straws are we?
Go straw man, go! So many are rooting for you!
*******
Mark thirteen verse thirty seven says; And what I say unto YOU!!! I say unto ALL!!!
Mark thirteen is the same passage as Matthew twenty-four.
*******
Maybe now you can see more clearly, and have a better understanding? Lord willing, of course.
*******
PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

Greetings Peter,
Lot and his family were taken out BEFORE judgement fell on Sodom.
Noah and his family were taken out BEFORE the flood came upon the earth.
These are bad examples to try and build your case on.
God bless.

The Bible says you are a liar. God did NOT take Noah.
The Bible says if you get raptured or removed that you are not the righteous.
It is the wicked that get removed first.
*******
I sure don't want to be "taken".
And the BEAST was TAKEN, and with him, the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, ...
Revelation nineteen verse twenty.
*******
And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be in the days of the Son of Man.
They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage,
until the DAY that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Luke seventeen verses twenty six and twenty seven.
The ones taken were NOT the righteous.
*******
Now look at Matthew twenty-four again.
But of THAT DAY AND HOUR knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
BUT as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and
giving in marriage, until the DAY that Noe entered into the ark.
And knew Not until the flood came, and TOOK THEM all away;
So shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
*******
Noah knew about the flood; for he was preparing and obeying for about 100 years.
THEN shall two be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN and the other left!
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; and the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left.
Matthew twenty-four, verses thirty-six to forty-one.

*******
Jesus says it is the wicked that are taken. Not the just! We remain.
Do you believe these verses? They ARE scripture truth!
*******
PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

 

[veteran]

God is going to severe the wicked from the just, that's true, and it begins at Christ's second coming. That's what the "outer darkness" is that Jesus spoke of, a place of separation outside the Holy City for the wicked (Rev.22:14-15). But those wicked will still go through Christ's Milennium reign with His elect priests and kings though, and that's the part many miss from OT prophecy and Rev.20.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Greetings Peter,
Lot and his family were taken out BEFORE judgement fell on Sodom.
Noah and his family were taken out BEFORE the flood came upon the earth.
These are bad examples to try and build your case on.
God bless.

Exactly right Trumpeter .... that was my point ...... thanks.

Peter ... do you have dyslexia ?? Every time I post something you read it completely opposite


Thanks.

 

[Trumpeter]

The Bible says you are a liar. God did NOT take Noah.
The Bible says if you get raptured or removed that you are not the righteous.
It is the wicked that get removed first.
*******
I sure don't want to be "taken".
And the BEAST was TAKEN, and with him, the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, ...
Revelation nineteen verse twenty.
*******
And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be in the days of the Son of Man.
They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage,
until the DAY that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Luke seventeen verses twenty six and twenty seven.
The ones taken were NOT the righteous.
*******
Now look at Matthew twenty-four again.
But of THAT DAY AND HOUR knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
BUT as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and
giving in marriage, until the DAY that Noe entered into the ark.
And knew Not until the flood came, and TOOK THEM all away;
So shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
*******
Noah knew about the flood; for he was preparing and obeying for about 100 years.
THEN shall two be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN and the other left!
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; and the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left.
Matthew twenty-four, verses thirty-six to forty-one.

*******
Jesus says it is the wicked that are taken. Not the just! We remain.
Do you believe these verses? They ARE scripture truth!
*******
PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:

The Bible says you are a liar.

And who does the Bible say is the accuser?


Rev 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

God did NOT take Noah.

He took him out of the flood in the ark. He even shut the door for him and sealed it.


All wheat, that belongs to Me, is gathered and tied together and stored in The Master’s barn. It is the tares that must be separated and burned. The tares grow in vain, forever separated and cast out.

My children, you are the good wheat, planted in the good ground...
Do not uproot each other, in harsh words and judgment...
Grow together in the field I have planted, which is within you.

I am coming so very quickly, My sickle is in My hand...
I shall reap all I have planted.


Do not divide what I have brought together and rewarded equally by My works...


Be, all in all, one family in Christ,
And dwell together in the Kingdom of God.​

Excerpt from:
Honor One Another as You Honor Him Who Gave You Life
http://trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=Honor_One_Another_as_You_Honor_Him_Who_Gave_You_Life




For the blessing is this: Those who obey, and take up their cross and follow Me, shall be lifted up out of affliction... With the rest, left and purified, or burned as it were by fire, seven times. The wheat and tares must be separated in preparation for the harvest. My Spirit is poured out.
The workers are in the field, binding together the wheat that shall be housed in My Father’s barn, and binding together the tares to be burned. Think not, for a moment, this is to be taken lightly or as a mere intellectual metaphor. It has begun, and had already commenced, since the first day The Son of Man opened His mouth, also declaring His glory by the works of His hands. All have been separated since the curtain was rent and My Spirit was given up. Now comes the consummation of all things. One to My right, the other to My left; one taken, the other left. Though I take no pleasure in the trials of the wicked that must come, even so, it shall surely come, for The Father waits no longer. The cup is filled to overflowing with the abominations of mankind, and it shall shortly be overturned. Then shall He pour out on the nations His judgments, and all shall be baptized in the fires of His indignation.

Excerpt from:
Keep Not the Company of the Wicked...This is Where All Seeds of Dissension Grow
http://trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=Keep_Not_the_Company_of_the_Wicked...This_is_Where_All_Seeds_of_Dissension_Grow

 

[veteran]

You need to re-read what Jesus said in Matthew 24 Trumpeter. The ones Jesus said were 'taken' there at the time of Noah were the wicked.
Matt 24:37-39
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(KJV)


In the Luke 17 chapter, Jesus sealed the meaning of the wicked being the first ones taken in the field...

Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


Now... the verse that the Pre-Trib fly away preachers 'intentionally' leave out... Jesus' answer to His disciple's question of 'where' those first ones would be 'taken' to...

37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
(KJV)

Here's the parallel verse in Matt.24 to that Luke 17:37 answer by our Lord Jesus...


Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(KJV)

 

[Trumpeter]

[God The Father] Oh peoples of My earth, hear your God...

You are lost, drowning in the sea, sinking in the sand, suffocating in the mire. Evil surrounds you, you are dead, all are rotting. The birds are circling; and the predators, stalking. Soon you shall be devoured, never to be seen of again. You have turned from your God and cast away the Cornerstone. Your house has fallen; its foundation crumbles. Soon all will be dust and rubble. Oh sadness, great anguish, My beloved ones are gone from Me. I gave My Son to die for them, so they may live. They choose death... Wailing, much wailing, tears as a river... No! I cry with an almighty voice from Heaven. I will not lose My beloved sheep! Crumble, oh mountains; shake, oh earth; rage, oh seas. I, once again, send The Son of Salvation, the almighty, all powerful, Savior of men, for He wears the full raiment of The Father. He shall pluck you from the fire, tread the winepress, scourge the entire earth with His mouth, wipe from all existence the wicked and all things that sicken His sheep and cause them to go astray. The Christ is your Helper, and I am your Father who abides forever. My mercy is great; My love, greater still. Come home, My chosen flock, come home to My house... I have prepared a place for you. Many more rooms have I prepared for those who come later, for they have misplaced their invitation. I shall shake the earth, and move everything from its place, so they can find that which they had lost and misplaced. Look, all you lost, your invitation was with you always, only hidden by the dark. You were born with it... It is Christ, your Savior. He dwells in the hearts of men. Even so, I shall send Him to earth. In His hand, He has His sickle. Reap, oh Son of Man... reap! Take up all the sons and daughters of promise. Gather them into My barn, and shelter them from the storm that is coming and is upon them. So says The Lord God of Heaven and earth, so shall it be done.


[Jesus The Christ] No one can shut what The Father opens. I, The Christ and King, am The Way The Father has opened. Come up hither, My people... The time is now. The leaves of the fig tree are upon its branches, summer is here. The sun is nearly at its zenith. The Son of Man, who ascended, is descending. Come meet Him in the air. Yes, even you who sleep, awake! I have heard your shout... Now hear My shout. Be spared from that which I must accomplish, for it is My Father’s will that all comes to pass through Me, as it was written, and as it is written. Take heed... Verily, verily I say to you, in no wise will it come to pass as a metaphor or parable. The time of questions and stories is over. I come exactly how it is written, and fulfill all things exactly as they are written. By no other means will these, who are left, be saved, for they are very stiff-necked, blind, deaf and dumb. Therefore, the Power on High has come, and is manifest in The King called Blessed, Holy and True.

I am forever, My dominion forever...​

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Bow, and be saved.​

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Stand defiant, and be crushed beneath My feet and burned with fire.​

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The call is trumpeted to the four corners...​

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Come out of her, My people!​

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Excerpt from:​

Come Up Here​

http://trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=Come_Up_Here​

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, veteran.

You have to read that Scripture closely, and THINK.

Rev 9:3-6
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
(KJV)

Christ is giving us a comparison there between those outside His Church, and those in Him. It is not showing that His Church has gone anywhere. If ONLY those NOT sealed by God can be stung and not killed by those locusts, then what for those in Christ Jesus? It means those with God's sealing can... be killed by them in that time. And that aligns with the Rev.12:9-17 Scripture of the serpent going after God's elect for the end to persecute Christ's Church.


Once again, you have to understand what that stinging by those locusts is about per that Scripture. Later at Rev.9:17-18 we're told their power is in their MOUTHS. That means 'words' of deception is what their stinging is about. So it makes sense that those outside Christ's Church will be subject to that stinging for five months, while those in Christ will not be because of God's sealing. I mean, what do you guys think God's sealing of His for the tribulation is for??? It's so you WON'T be deceived!!!

So really Arnie, by your trying to prove a Pre-Trib Rapture theory with that Scripture, all you're actually doing is showing how you do NOT really understand that Scripture at all!

I really like much of what you say and was agreeing with your treatment of guestman's JW error, but you really need to quit merging the fifth and sixth trumpet judgments as though they were the same creature. THEY ARE NOT!! There are significant differences between the two, and they are not even REMOTELY the same! Get off that kick, bro'; it's dragging you down!

 

[veteran]

Shalom, veteran.


I really like much of what you say and was agreeing with your treatment of guestman's JW error, but you really need to quit merging the fifth and sixth trumpet judgments as though they were the same creature. THEY ARE NOT!! There are significant differences between the two, and they are not even REMOTELY the same! Get off that kick, bro'; it's dragging you down!

I don't see your claim that I was doing that at all. Just because you can't recognize the locust metaphor which Christ used there doesn't mean they are disconnected within those 5th and 6th trumpets. Pretty sure I've shown you how that is before.


5th Trumpet
Rev 9:3-10
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
(KJV)


6th Trumpet

Rev 9:16-17
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
(KJV)

Number of the army of the horsemen? What horsemen? Got to follow the subject flow back to the horsemen described at Rev.9:7-9.


Rev 9:18-19
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
(KJV)


This 11th verse actually applies to BOTH concepts of that 'stinging'...

Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
(KJV)


Main difference between the two examples are the locusts stinging for five months doesn't actually occur until the 6th trumpet with the loosing of the four angels at Rev.9:14-15. 6th Trumpet timing is the actuall 'tribulation'. 5th Trumpet timing is the prep for the tribulation.

 

[Trumpeter]

Shalom, veteran.

you really need to quit merging the fifth and sixth trumpet judgments as though they were the same creature. THEY ARE NOT!! There are significant differences between the two, and they are not even REMOTELY the same! Get off that kick, bro'; it's dragging you down!

Amen Retro.

I don't see your claim that I was doing that at all. Just because you can't recognize the locust metaphor which Christ used there doesn't mean they are disconnected within those 5th and 6th trumpets. Pretty sure I've shown you how that is before.


5th Trumpet
Rev 9:3-10
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
(KJV)


6th Trumpet

Rev 9:16-17
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
(KJV)

Number of the army of the horsemen? What horsemen? Got to follow the subject flow back to the horsemen described at Rev.9:7-9.


Rev 9:18-19
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
(KJV)


This 11th verse actually applies to BOTH concepts of that 'stinging'...

Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
(KJV)


Main difference between the two examples are the locusts stinging for five months doesn't actually occur until the 6th trumpet with the loosing of the four angels at Rev.9:14-15. 6th Trumpet timing is the actuall 'tribulation'. 5th Trumpet timing is the prep for the tribulation.

Greetings veteran,

Rev 9:3-10 is about the locusts that come out of the pit while Rev 9:16-17 is about the 200,000,000 man army that comes out of the east.

The locusts are given the power to torture men without the mark of God for 5 months while by the 2000,000,000 man army, a third part of men are killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

These are not the same group and both trumpets take place during the Great Tribulation.

God bless.

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

he locusts are given the power to torture men without the mark of God for 5 months while by the 2000,000,000 man army, a third part of men are killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Where do you see this 200 million as an army of men? It would be nearly impossible to deploy a 200 million man army. This is more likely a plague of some sort.

 

[veteran]

Greetings veteran,

Rev 9:3-10 is about the locusts that come out of the pit while Rev 9:16-17 is about the 200,000,000 man army that comes out of the east.

Nope. That's a pop tradition from men that have failed to understand that Rev.9 chapter. Those like Hal Lindsey made that idea popular in books like Late Great Planet Earth.

The 6th trumpet which starts at Rev.9:13 is about 2nd Woe events. The subject flow of that 2nd Woe period continues all the way to the Rev.11:14 verse until the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe comes, and we're shown Christ reigning right after. So when... is the "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus mentioned within all this timing???

Also, just when... is the great army out of the northern quarters, Gog and Magog per Ezek.38 & 39, to come upon Israel?

ANS:
On the very LAST day of this present world when our Lord Jesus comes, i.e., the "day of the LORD" events when the wicked are destroyed by the brightness of Christ's coming. That's also when the Armageddon event He mentioned in Rev.16 will occur, on the 7th Vial.


So again, where's the "great tribulation" timing within all this Rev.8:13 to Rev.11:14 section of Scripture???


It begins with that event of the 6th trumpet - 2nd Woe period. And it continues all the way... to the Rev.11:14 to the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe.

This is why the Gentiles of Rev.11:1-2 are given to tread the holy city for 42 months, and God's two witnesses are here prophesying against Satan's host for 1260 days, and then Satan kills them. That 42 months, or 1260 days, is equal to the time given Daniel for the end when the dragon is given power over the saints and over all peoples on earth.

Yet both our Lord Jesus, and His servant Paul showed how that tribulation time would be a time of "Peace and safety" (Matt.24:6 and 1 Thess.5:3). So WHERE is this 200,000,000 army in that period, for that means the opposite of a time of peace and safety??

And especially, that Rev.9:16-19 Scripture says the 'power' of that "army of horsemen" is IN THEIR MOUTHS?!*?! How is that about a literal military army, hurting by what comes out of their 'mouths'? Is there some new military weapon from the 'mouth' that we don't know about today?? No, of course not.

Their power is IN their mouths because... they are NOT a literal military army, but they operate LIKE one. And that's the actual comparison The LORD was making there. It is in direct connection with the locust prophecy in the Book of Joel. And there in Joel 2 God reveals He is Who sends this locust army upon the land, not Satan.

So these Rev.9 events are pointers to the "great tribulation" timing when Satan will be given control on the earth, and when the deceived will be declaring "Peace and safety" per Apostle Paul. It will because of the pseudo-Christ our Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us that is coming, will actually be here on earth to create peace for all nations and fix everyone's problems, yet it will be a false peace (the prophets covered that false peace concept too).

 

[Trumpeter]

Where do you see this 200 million as an army of men? It would be nearly impossible to deploy a 200 million man army. This is more likely a plague of some sort.

Rev 9:16 Now the number of the army of the horsemen [was] two hundred million; I heard the number of them.

Many Bible scholars associate the Army of 200 million with red China and her Oriental allies by tying this text concerning the Euphrates together with chapter 16, verse 12: Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east [or the kings of the sunrising] might be prepared. Such an assembly of military might is quite feasible considering China's present population of nearly 1 billion, 400 million.

Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses [were] like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.

Note these colours and then check out the colours that the Chinese military uses, they are identical.

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

Rev 9:16 Now the number of the army of the horsemen [was] two hundred million; I heard the number of them.

Many Bible scholars associate the Army of 200 million with red China and her Oriental allies by tying this text concerning the Euphrates together with chapter 16, verse 12: Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east [or the kings of the sunrising] might be prepared. Such an assembly of military might is quite feasible considering China's present population of nearly 1 billion, 400 million.

Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses [were] like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.

Note these colours and then check out the colours that the Chinese military uses, they are identical.

It's nearly impossible to deploy a 200 million man army. That's about the population of the entire U.S.! From what I see in the text I believe they are the evildoers of the four angels mentioned in verses 14-16. Each of the four have 50 million angels in their control who bring plagues upon the earth. (directed toward Muslim's)

Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
It's the angels who slay 1/3 part of men.not men themselves.

And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

And the number of the army of the horsemen [were] two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

So this is very likely an army of angels and angelic forces. What is described by these 200 million is really out of the realm of human possibility!

And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses [were] as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Horses don't issue fire from their mouths and horses are seldom used in warfare anymore. These are figurative of an angelic army who are loosed to plague and persecute Muslim's to get them to repent!

By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails [were] like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk.

http://aoreport.com/ao/prophecy-studies-mainmenu-47/archived-studies-mainmenu-64/272-the-myth-of-the-200-million-man-army-of-the-kings-of-the-east

http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/god%E2%80%99s-war-on-terror%E2%80%A6-the-200-million-man-army/

 

[veteran]

Nice try Black Sheep, but that 200 million angels doesn't work.

The Rev.9 locust army is about God's prophecy about the locusts in the Book of Joel, and God calls it His great army He sends upon the earth in Joel 2. Those locusts represent powers upon this earth for the last days to make the one world government system to come into reality. It's already been at work for almost a century now, as you probably well know but refuse to admit!

The number of workers involved in preparing Satan's coming one-world global beast kingdom of Rev.13:1 would literally require MILLIONS of workers here on earth to make it happen, servants of it among all... nations and governments.

“We shall have World Government, whether or not we like it. The only question is whether World Government will be achieved by consent or conquest.”
–James Paul Warburg [son of Paul Warburg, the author of the Federal Reserve Act] February 7, 1950

“We are moving toward a new world order, the world of communism. We shall never turn off that road.”
–Mikhail Gorbachev, 1987

“I think that his [Obama's] task will be to develop an overall strategy for America in this period, when really a New World Order can be created.”
–Henry Kissinger, CNBC 2008

“In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn’t such a great idea after all.”
–Strobe Talbot, Deputy Secretary of State, TIME, July l992

“Undersecretary of State Sumner Welles tonight called for the early creation of an international organization of anti-Axis nations to control the world during the period between the armistice at the end of the present war and the setting up of a new world order on a permanent basis.”
–Philadelphia Inquirer, June 1942

“Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government.”
–Dr. Henry Kissinger, Evians, France, 1991

“In short, the ‘house of world order’ will have to be built from the bottom up rather than f rom the top down. It will look like a great ‘booming, buzzing confusion,’ to use William James’ famous description of reality, but an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old-fashioned frontal assault.”
–Richard N. Gardner, Foreign Affairs, April 1974

“The Final Act of the Uruguay Round, marking the conclusion of the most ambitious trade negotiation of our century, will give birth – in Morocco – to the World Trade Organization, the third pillar of the New World Order, along with the United Nations and the International Monetary Fund.”
Government of Morocco, advertisement, New York Times, April 1994

“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
–Franklin D. Roosevelt, letter to Col. House, November 21, l933

“The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole.”
–Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time, 1966

“From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, to those of Trotsky, Bela Kun, Rosa Luxembourg, and Emma Goldman, this world wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played a definitely recognizable role in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the nineteenth century, and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads, and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.”
–Winston Churchill, 1922

“The statement went on to say that the spiritual teachings of religion must become the foundation for the new world order and that national sovereignty must be subordinate to the higher moral law of God.”
–American Institute of Judaism, New York Times, December 1942

“To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men, their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism and religious dogmas.”
–G. Brock Chisholm, co-founder of the World Federation for Mental Health, former director of UN World Health Organization

"The One-World government leaders and their ever close bankers have now acquired full control of the money and credit machinery of the U.S. via the creation of the privately owned Federal Reserve bank." - Curtis Dall, FDR's Son-in-law (These are quotes from his book - FDR: My Exploited Father-in-law)

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Where do you see this 200 million as an army of men? It would be nearly impossible to deploy a 200 million man army. This is more likely a plague of some sort.

A lot of "impossible" things will happen in the great tribulation Mr. Sheep

In the 1980's China boasted they had 200 million people with some military training ... they could not afford firearms for each one .... so for every 3 soldiers , one would have an old rifle , one a sword , one a pitchfork.

The strategy was to use overwhelming numbers and at each skirmish the china soldier would captured enemy firearms and continue forward becoming better armed each day of battle.

The Chinese strategy , and art of war , is very clever .... rather than kill enemy soldiers they prefer to just wound them ..... because it takes a large number of medics and military resources to take care of the injured .... and they have observed that western armies do not abandon their wounded soldiers

That was 30 years ago .... since then , the mighty Chinese factories pump out armaments 24 hours a day .... all funded by the profits from all the consumer products we buy from them .

Today China has a fully trained and well equipped standing army of over 2 million (largest in the world)

China also has a huge population , so even if only 15% of the people joined a war effort .... you easily have a 200 million army.

Also ... China is East of Israel .... just like the bible says

Black Sheep .... I hope you reconsider that you may not be the prophecy expert you first assumed .



.

 

[KevinMiller]

How will the Rapture Occur?
It says in the Bible that Believers will suddenly, without warning, disappear from Earth in the “twinkling of an eye.”

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[veteran]

That 2 Thess.2 Chapter is NOT about a rapture. It's about a warning to the Church of a false one coming to sit in a temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself as God, and cause many to fall away into false worship to him instead of waiting on our Lord Jesus' second coming.