LEFT BEHIND ... what to do?

[ewq1938]

Lest we fall into, Yes it did, No it didn't, Yes it did, etc., why don't we provide evidence for our position? Where did Jesus say that his comparison between the Flood of Noah and the Day of Wrath at the 2nd Coming inferred a "Great Tribulation" precedes both of them?

Because he used the flood as a comparison to the end times and his return, and Christ spoke of the GT happening just prior to his return. Most make the mistake of confusing the flood for the GT when any concept of that would have happened prior to the flood. The flood was God's wrath and after the GT is over God's wrath comes at the second coming.

 

[Brakelite]

The OT Sabbath was a legalistic requirement but the NT Sabbath is a fo spiritual requirement, not legalistic.

What was the "OT" Sabbath for? Why was it established? Because it was a legalistic requirement? Just an arbitrary commandment from a dictatorial God like the false pagan gods demanding appeasement?

 

[David in NJ]

With respect David, you've skirted the question.

Good Morning,
Ok , i will try again.

 

[JLB]

The flood was God's wrath and after the GT is over God's wrath comes at the second coming.

‘Amen.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I don't know where it gets all of its info--unlikely to be yours or mine or those of your "cheerleader." ;) It's a fun thing to use, but we must always be conscious of the caveats.

AI can be programmed to slant/ favor one view over another. So Wikiledia AI for instance is slanted to the Left. They have over this generation revised history. Look something up and it is not exactly how the Encylopedia Brittanica presented it 60 years ago. But I do not think they have designed the algorithms to favor Pre-Trib theology. No, I think that knowledge is straight forward and open wide to access. Elon created Grok, a new AI supposedly without any wokeness or politically liberal or conservative persuasion. Interestingly, they asked it about the possibility of spontaneous generation and theory of evolution if happening by chance and its answer was 1 in 10¹⁰⁰ or more - basically impossible and reasoned that life comes from intelligent design. Then it was asked about Jesus and it gave a fascinating affirmation, truthful.
Just to research and summarize for us, it's quick and succinct. We don't need it, we have the Holy Spirit to teach us. But is has access to what the Holy Spirit taught thousands of theologians who have taught Christianity for thousands years - in seconds.

 

[marks]

This "Great Tribulation" is not the Reign of Antichrist, his persecution of backslidden Christians at that time,

You mean the persecution of the Jews and other believers, I think, If you are describing pre-trib. Partial rapture is something else entirely, and not many believe that as far as I know.

Much love!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Something else hit me about the timing of the Rapture. Don't know why I didn't think of this before.
Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. MATT. 24:40-41
Matthew directed this message to Jewish Christians. " Those who are in Judah, flee, pray that it won't be on the Sabbath or in the winter". These people above are working in the field, grinding in the mill when Jesus comes--- SO HE WOULDN'T COME ON A Jewish FEAST DAY/ HOLIDAY ... THEY DO NOT WORK.

So all of this prophetic date setting on Jewish holidays would not harmonize with the above scripture. The Jews may expect the Messiah to return on one of their holy days, but He will come at a time they least expect Him to come and it is right there, on a work day.

 

[Marty fox]

Something else hit me about the timing of the Rapture. Don't know why I didn't think of this before.
Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. MATT. 24:40-41
Matthew directed this message to Jewish Christians. " Those who are in Judah, flee, pray that it won't be on the Sabbath or in the winter". These people above are working in the field, grinding in the mill when Jesus comes--- SO HE WOULDN'T COME ON A Jewish FEAST DAY/ HOLIDAY ... THEY DO NOT WORK.

So all of this prophetic date setting on Jewish holidays would not harmonize with the above scripture. The Jews may expect the Messiah to return on one of their holy days, but He will come at a time they least expect Him to come and it is right there, on a work day.

That’s not the rapture they were taken in judgement, in Noah’s day it was better to be left behind

Luke 17
26 “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. 27 In those days, the people enjoyed banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 “And the world will be as it was in the days of Lot. People went about their daily business—eating and drinking, buying and selling, farming and building— 29 until the morning Lot left Sodom. Then fire and burning sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Yes, it will be ‘business as usual’ right up to the day when the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day a person out on the deck of a roof must not go down into the house to pack. A person out in the field must not return home.32 Remember what happened to Lot’s wife! 33 If you cling to your life, you will lose it, and if you let your life go, you will save it.34 That night two people will be asleep in one bed; one will be taken, the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding flour together at the mill; one will be taken, the other left.[i]”

37 “Where will this happen, Lord?”[j] the disciples asked.

Jesus replied, “Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near.”[k]

 

[David in NJ]

Because he used the flood as a comparison to the end times and his return, and Christ spoke of the GT happening just prior to his return. Most make the mistake of confusing the flood for the GT when any concept of that would have happened prior to the flood. The flood was God's wrath and after the GT is over God's wrath comes at the second coming.

God's Story Book that was written for His Children is very difficult for adults to understand................Matt 18:1-5

 

[Randy Kluth]

You mean the persecution of the Jews and other believers, I think, If you are describing pre-trib. Partial rapture is something else entirely, and not many believe that as far as I know.

Much love!

No, I was referring to the common Pretrib presentation of lukewarm or backslidden Christian being "left behind" after the Rapture. It is taught that the "Great Tribulation" commences at that point, the "left behind" Christians suddenly converting to become strong and apparently "mature" believers, able to resist the temptations of Antichrist--all without the aid of any truly mature Christians around them, to guide them and to help them grow strong??

It is taught that the Jewish People are persecuted during this time. But that is part of the age-long "Great Tribulation" that Jesus predicted would last throughout the age beginning with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

I was not indicating any "Partial Rapture." I think you misunderstood me?

 

[marks]

No, I was referring to the common Pretrib presentation of lukewarm or backslidden Christian being "left behind" after the Rapture. It is taught that the "Great Tribulation" commences at that point, the "left behind" Christians suddenly converting to become strong and apparently "mature" believers, able to resist the temptations of Antichrist--all without the aid of any truly mature Christians around them, to guide them and to help them grow strong??

It is taught that the Jewish People are persecuted during this time. But that is part of the age-long "Great Tribulation" that Jesus predicted would last throughout the age beginning with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

I was not indicating any "Partial Rapture." I think you misunderstood me?

Christians being "left behind" for not being sufficiently spiritual would be "partial rapture". In my circles over the years hardly anyone thinks that will happen.

It sounds like you are describing the Left Behind series, but I don't know anyone who thinks that is actually what will happen. That's all fiction based on certain assumptions that have no Biblical foundation.

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

AI can be programmed to slant/ favor one view over another. So Wikiledia AI for instance is slanted to the Left. They have over this generation revised history. Look something up and it is not exactly how the Encylopedia Brittanica presented it 60 years ago. But I do not think they have designed the algorithms to favor Pre-Trib theology.

Your biased opinion? Perhaps the people producing Wikipedia AI do not want to believe their AI research is "slanted to the Left" either?

No, I think that knowledge is straight forward and open wide to access. Elon created Grok, a new AI supposedly without any wokeness or politically liberal or conservative persuasion. Interestingly, they asked it about the possibility of spontaneous generation and theory of evolution if happening by chance and its answer was 1 in 10¹⁰⁰ or more - basically impossible and reasoned that life comes from intelligent design. Then it was asked about Jesus and it gave a fascinating affirmation, truthful.

Well, that's exciting! But I could've given them my objective opinion without all of the trouble and expense! ;)

Just to research and summarize for us, it's quick and succinct. We don't need it, we have the Holy Spirit to teach us. But is has access to what the Holy Spirit taught thousands of theologians who have taught Christianity for thousands years - in seconds.

Yes, but Christians have had age-long errors--good Christians! Reliance on AI is reliance on subjective programming. Caveat remains.

Let me just say this. Circumstances have changed over time, and Christian eschatology has changed with it. For example, Replacement Theology was dominant throughout the ages when Israel had lost the Kingdom of God and no longer looked a likely candidate for national restoration.

But my how things have changed since modern Zionism has reemerged! Suddenly, Replacement Theology has lost some of its clout to the newly emerging Futurism and Dispensationalism. I'm not a Dispensationalist but I do agree with its belief in Israel's future salvation.

Pretribism has never been dominant, and is the child of Imminency Teaching, which has always been in the language of Bible and Scholars alike. So the AI research would easily confuse the language of Christ's "Soon Return" with the kind of Imminency Doctrine that Pretrib adheres to. And that would be flawed research in my opinion.

When did the "soon return of Christ" mean, in history, that Christ could return "on any day?" And yet, the AI programming might think so based on a lack of understanding in how the language has changed meaning.

 

[ewq1938]

Something else hit me about the timing of the Rapture. Don't know why I didn't think of this before.
Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. MATT. 24:40-41
Matthew directed this message to Jewish Christians. " Those who are in Judah, flee, pray that it won't be on the Sabbath or in the winter". These people above are working in the field, grinding in the mill when Jesus comes--- SO HE WOULDN'T COME ON A Jewish FEAST DAY/ HOLIDAY ... THEY DO NOT WORK.

They also don't follow Jesus. The rapture is not for non-Christians.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Christians being "left behind" for not being sufficiently spiritual would be "partial rapture". In my circles over the years hardly anyone thinks that will happen.

It sounds like you are describing the Left Behind series, but I don't know anyone who thinks that is actually what will happen. That's all fiction based on certain assumptions that have no Biblical foundation.

Much love!

Well yes, I never read the Left Behind series, but I've seen nearly all of the Pretrib Rapture movies. I don't agree with them, but am entertained by them. I just don't think they're realistic.

When you say that this scenario is not commonly held, this seems contradicted by the fact the Left Behind series and many similar movies have enjoyed immense popularity. What alternative scenario are you suggesting is now popular?

I grew up with Larry Norman's song, "I wish we'd all been ready." That says it all right there. Some heavyweight Christians have supported what you call "Partial Rapture." What is the "Full Rapture" then?

 

[marks]

Well yes, I never read the Left Behind series, but I've seen nearly all of the Pretrib Rapture movies. I don't agree with them, but am entertained by them. I just don't think they're realistic.

When you say that this scenario is not commonly held, this seems contradicted by the fact the Left Behind series and many similar movies have enjoyed immense popularity. What alternative scenario are you suggesting is now popular?

I grew up with Larry Norman's song, "I wish we'd all been ready." That says it all right there. Some heavyweight Christians have supported what you call "Partial Rapture." What is the "Full Rapture" then?

I've watched all kinds of end times movies, pre, mid, post, they are all represented, some more than others. I don't think any of them get it right.

I don't know anyone who holds the "Left Behind" eschatology, with Freedom Fighters and all that. They ignore the impact of the earthquakes and plagues.

It was in a "Left Behind" book that someone with the Mark of the Beast had the mark "go away", no one I've ever known that I know what they think of this thinks that.

The people I know, the churches I've been in, believe in the rapture of the church all who are "in Christ", that is, all true Chirstians, will be caught up.

The Bible doesn't allow anything different. All true Christians.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I grew up with Larry Norman's song, "I wish we'd all been ready." That says it all right there.

The Father spoke, the demons dined . . . this is the Left Behind adventures?

Much love!

 

[rebuilder 454]

Then that is a total contradiction of John 3:16 and other verses that promise salvation to anyone that repents.

Many satanist have repented and been saved.

Think about it, Paul was persecuting and ordering the execution of the church and God saved him after he repented, and you think that this very same God would reject anyone who repents of taking a physical mark?

That would put our salvation on what we did not what Jesus did.

I don't get what you are saying.

Are we talking the Mark of the Beast, or the mark of the 144k?

Either way, they both are literal.

 

[rebuilder 454]

What are you referring too here what's the questions I'm not sure what you mean?

Noah gathered BEFORE THE TRIB
LOT GATHERED before the trib
One taken one left gathered before the trib.
The 10 virgins ( believers) , half gathered, half left behind.

All words of Jesus.
Simple and in no need of modification.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, At This Time The Resurrection Of "All" Takes Place (Then Cometh The End)​

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.


I have always believed that.
Perfect pretrib outline.
Thank you.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Your biased opinion? Perhaps the people producing Wikipedia AI do not want to believe their AI research is "slanted to the Left" either?

Well, that's exciting! But I could've given them my objective opinion without all of the trouble and expense! ;)

Yes, but Christians have had age-long errors--good Christians! Reliance on AI is reliance on subjective programming. Caveat remains.

Let me just say this. Circumstances have changed over time, and Christian eschatology has changed with it. For example, Replacement Theology was dominant throughout the ages when Israel had lost the Kingdom of God and no longer looked a likely candidate for national restoration.

But my how things have changed since modern Zionism has reemerged! Suddenly, Replacement Theology has lost some of its clout to the newly emerging Futurism and Dispensationalism. I'm not a Dispensationalist but I do agree with its belief in Israel's future salvation.

Pretribism has never been dominant, and is the child of Imminency Teaching, which has always been in the language of Bible and Scholars alike. So the AI research would easily confuse the language of Christ's "Soon Return" with the kind of Imminency Doctrine that Pretrib adheres to. And that would be flawed research in my opinion.

When did the "soon return of Christ" mean, in history, that Christ could return "on any day?" And yet, the AI programming might think so based on a lack of understanding in how the language has changed meaning.

Just to be clear, Christians should not rely on AI for answers. We rely on the Holy Spirit. But this event of being left behind ( that you do not think will transpire) involves unbelievers, those who never relied on Jesus really. So then for immediate help/ advice, with spirit filled churches, preachers and Christians nowhere to be found to witness and minister to them, the AI OP does just fine actually.