LET'S SEE IF JESUS WAS TALKING ABOUT THE RAPTURE OR HIS SECOND COMING WHEN HE SAID, "NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY NOR THE HOUR"

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Ronald D Milam

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Your message falls on deaf ears around here. I am PRE-TRIB too, and have already put two on my IGNORE LIST.
Remember, Satan is a deceiver and we battle not against flesh and blood.

God's word never returns void, there might be someone who never logs, but sees your message of hope and truth, so don't let them bother you, God's blessing still comes from us teaching His truths. They cant take that away, I destroy their unsound doctrines every day. They just will not reply to truths that expose them. They scurry about and jump around to understandings from other men.

I just tell the the truth, anyone who can't understand the SIMPLE RAPTURE TIMING, I trust nothing they say about Eschatology or End Times, which is my forte. I have all the info on the end times, stuff they can't even contemplate, and they do not even understand the things I tell them about the end times, which is vastly harder to understand than the trivial timing of the Rapture which is very easy to understand. They are one trick ponies, everything in their life revolves around UNTRUTH they learned from other men. They THINK it makes them intelligent, LOL.
 
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David in NJ

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Remember, Satan is a deceiver and we battle not against flesh and blood. I do not pay any attention to David tbh, he's like a wall, but I pray he will be shown the truth, so he will not deceive others. But alas, God knows whom is his, the problem with many are they were not called unto Prophecy, as I was 38 years ago, but they want to try top teach that which the have never understood or been privy unto.

But, God's word never returns void, there might be someone who never logs, but sees your message of hope and truth, so don't let them bother you, God's blessing still comes from us teaching His truths. They cant take that away, I destroy their unsound doctrines every day. They just will not reply to truths that expose them. They scurry about and jump around to understandings from other men.

I just tell the the truth, anyone who can't understand the SIMPLE RAPTURE TIMING, I trust nothing they say about Eschatology or End Times, which is my forte. I have all the info on the end times, stuff they can't even contemplate, and they do not even understand the things I tell them about the end times, which is vastly harder to understand than the trivial timing of the Rapture which is very easy to understand. They are one trick ponies, everything in their life revolves around UNTRUTH they learned from other men. They THINK it makes them intelligent, LOL.
It is required by God that you provide the evidence when you accuse someone.

SIMPLE TIMING is 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 Cor ch15 , Matt ch24 , Daniel ch7 , ch9 , ch12 , Genesis and OT Prophets, Revelation 10:7

We are still waiting for that passage of scripture that declares 'pre-trib' rapture BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ.
 

Ronald D Milam

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It is required by God that you provide the evidence when you accuse someone.

SIMPLE TIMING is 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 Cor ch15 , Matt ch24 , Daniel ch7 , ch9 , ch12 , Genesis and OT Prophets, Revelation 10:7

We are still waiting for that passage of scripture that declares 'pre-trib' rapture BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ.
Give it a rest, I do not take you serious at all.
 

VCO

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Remember, Satan is a deceiver and we battle not against flesh and blood. I do not pay any attention to David tbh, he's like a wall, but I pray he will be shown the truth, so he will not deceive others. But alas, God knows whom is his, the problem with many are they were not called unto Prophecy, as I was 38 years ago, but they want to try top teach that which the have never understood or been privy unto.

But, God's word never returns void, there might be someone who never logs, but sees your message of hope and truth, so don't let them bother you, God's blessing still comes from us teaching His truths. They cant take that away, I destroy their unsound doctrines every day. They just will not reply to truths that expose them. They scurry about and jump around to understandings from other men.

I just tell the the truth, anyone who can't understand the SIMPLE RAPTURE TIMING, I trust nothing they say about Eschatology or End Times, which is my forte. I have all the info on the end times, stuff they can't even contemplate, and they do not even understand the things I tell them about the end times, which is vastly harder to understand than the trivial timing of the Rapture which is very easy to understand. They are one trick ponies, everything in their life revolves around UNTRUTH they learned from other men. They THINK it makes them intelligent, LOL.

Don't worry, he cannot shake my faith in the Pre-Trib Theology. I wonder how long Born Again Christians have been associating these two verses with the Wedding of the Lamb.

John 14:2-3 (HCSB)
2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if not, I would have told you. I am going away to prepare a place for you.
3 If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come back and receive you to Myself, so that where I am you may be also.


It seems that Messianic Jews would have picked up on that from the very beginning.
 

VCO

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GRACE ambassador

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Many of my fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ believe in 'pre-trib' rapture and yet we continue to love each other as we should.
Can't argue with that.
Please provide the passage of scripture that declares Christ will pre-trib rapture His Saints/Elect/Bride before His Second Coming and the Resurrection.

Please review 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Yes, these were reviewed and included along with dozens of Scriptures, which are "Rightly
Divided," showing the Differences between the prophesied Second Coming, and The
Revelation Of The Mystery, Wherein we found God's Pre-Trib:


Conclusion: prophecy And Mystery can Never be homogenized causing Massive Confusion, as:

"...God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."
(1 Corinthians 14:33)

Amen, and:

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
! (+ I and II!)
 

Ronald D Milam

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Well i am going to report you for false accusations made against the Body of Christ.
I would expect no less from you, you just earned a very RARE IGNORE from me. You are like a child who cant take a rebuke from an elder, which means you are not even on my radar anymore.
 
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David in NJ

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Can't argue with that.

Yes, these were reviewed and included along with dozens of Scriptures, which are "Rightly
Divided," showing the Differences between the prophesied Second Coming, and The
Revelation Of The Mystery, Wherein we found God's Pre-Trib:


Conclusion: prophecy And Mystery can Never be homogenized causing Massive Confusion, as:

"...God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."
(1 Corinthians 14:33)

Amen, and:

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
! (+ I and II!)
Correct = 1 Cor 14:33

The Lord said He is coming after the tribulation and that there cannot be a rapture until His Coming and the Resurrection.

How would you circumvent that?
 

David in NJ

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I would expect no less from you, you just earned a very RARE IGNORE from me. You are like a child who cant take a rebuke from an elder, which means you are not even on my radar anymore.
Here is what is deeply concerning = that VCO and yourself are accusing the Blood Washed Born Again Body of Christ of deserving condemnation simply because we reject 'pre-trib' rapture theory.

We are not saved by pre-trib rapture theory.

We all find our Salvation at One Place = the Death, Burial and Resurrection of our LORD Jesus Christ.

We all are eagerly looking for His Second Coming = as we should.
 
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The Light

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but only after the Trumps blew 100 times, the Shofar blew in 9 sets of 11, then on the 100th or "LAST TRUMP" it blew longer & louder than the other 99 and that Officially ended the Summer Harvest (think Church Age).
Can you post something that show the last trump is the official ending of the summer harvest. I don't believe that is correct. The Feast of Trumpets is the fall fruit harvest feast.

Now that you get what it means, let me tie it up with the 7 Feast Bow Knot. The 7 Feasts were called Holy Convocations (Dress Rehearsals) and thus Jesus has to fulfill all 7 Himself. WATCH THIS:

Spring Feasts which Jesus fulfilled in his first advent

1.) Passover (Jesus' blood is our Passover)
This is unfilled, unless of course it was fulfilled this Passover. Jesus was the first fruits, He was not the harvest. Unless the harvest occurred this past Passover, which I suspect it has, it is an unfulfilled feast.

Summer Harvest/Pentecost

4.) Feast of Weeks/Summer Harvest/The Church Age ( Jesus is our High Priest in heaven, we the Church are now harvesting souls for God, this will only end when Jesus calls us home, as Rev. 4:1 says, he sounds as a Trump, as Paul says via the LAST TRUMP, which always ended the Summer Harvest BUT.......
The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets and has nothing to do with the grain harvest.
Fall Feasts yet to be fulfilled

5.) Feast of Trumps (Jesus fulfills then when he calls us home Pre 70th week to end the Church Age)

The Feast of Trumpets has nothing to do with the Church age. The Church age will be over when the early summer wheat harvest is complete.
So, Jesus fulfills all 7 Feasts which were Dress Rehearsals for the real thing.
Passover is a harvest feast. Pentecost is a harvest feast. Feast of Trumpets is a harvest. Jesus is the first fruits of the dead in Christ, but He is not the harvest and is not the fulfillment of any of the above feasts.
 

The Light

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Good Morning

All of Scripture speak of:

a.) His Eternal Existence = "In the beginning God"

b.) His 1st Coming = "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"

c.) His 2nd Coming = Matt ch24 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 Cor ch15 , Revelation 1:8

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty.

a.) Who is = Eternal Existing One
b.) Who was = 1st Coming = Word became flesh
c.) Who is to come = 2nd Coming = Resurrection of the Dead in Christ followed by the Rapture


PLEASE find 'pre-trib' rapture scripture and post it - thank you
Not a problem

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
 
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David in NJ

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Not a problem

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
ABSOLUTELY TRUE and i pray that and believe that admonition from our LORD.
 

David in NJ

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Not a problem

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
The Lord said He is Coming after the tribulation and that there cannot be a rapture until His Coming and the Resurrection.

How would you circumvent that?
 

The Light

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The Lord said He is Coming after the tribulation and that there cannot be a rapture until His Coming and the Resurrection.

How would you circumvent that?
Not a problem.
What verse are you saying proves that there cannot be a rapture until His coming and resurrection? I am unaware of such a verse.

And what coming are you talking about.

The Word says He comes at the end of the tribulation, which is the 6th seal, when He remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

The Word also says He comes at the end of wrath to set up His kingdom on earth. That happens at the end of the trumpets or vials as they occur in the same timeframe.

The Word also says He comes for the 144,000 of the twelve tribes and they are the first fruits, which proves there will be a harvest of the 12 tribes.

The Word also says He comes for the dead in Christ, first.

The Word says that the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel and that they cannot see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Which leads us to the rapture of the Church which is getting ready to occur.

How is it that you are unable to understand these things? The bridegroom is literally at the door and you are totally unaware. The time is very, very, very short. You better wise up NOW. You don't want to be hanging around for what is getting ready to happen.
 

Marty fox

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Paul taught that the rapture in 1 Corinthians 15 was for the changing of our bodies splender so that we can enter heaven.

Paul also taught in that same text that the rapture happens at the last trumpet and below we see when the last trumpet is in revelation chapter 11


15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”
16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:
“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

Yes at the end of our world on the judgement day after the great tribulation
 

The Light

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Paul taught that the rapture in 1 Corinthians 15 was for the changing of our bodies splender so that we can enter heaven.

Paul also taught in that same text that the rapture happens at the last trumpet and below we see when the last trumpet is in revelation chapter 11


15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”
16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:
“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

Yes at the end of our world on the judgement day after the great tribulation
The "last trump" is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. Most Jews know this which is why no one asked Paul what he was talking about as John had not written the Revelation yet.
 

VCO

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Not a problem.
What verse are you saying proves that there cannot be a rapture until His coming and resurrection? I am unaware of such a verse.

And what coming are you talking about.

The Word says He comes at the end of the tribulation, which is the 6th seal, when He remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

The Word also says He comes at the end of wrath to set up His kingdom on earth. That happens at the end of the trumpets or vials as they occur in the same timeframe.

The Word also says He comes for the 144,000 of the twelve tribes and they are the first fruits, which proves there will be a harvest of the 12 tribes.

The Word also says He comes for the dead in Christ, first.

The Word says that the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel and that they cannot see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Which leads us to the rapture of the Church which is getting ready to occur.

How is it that you are unable to understand these things? The bridegroom is literally at the door and you are totally unaware. The time is very, very, very short. You better wise up NOW. You don't want to be hanging around for what is getting ready to happen.

 

ewq1938

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The "last trump" is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. Most Jews know this which is why no one asked Paul what he was talking about as John had not written the Revelation yet.

Rev didn't have to be written for God to show Paul something He would later show to John.

The last trumpet is the last endtimes, heavenly trumpet. There are 7 trumpets, and the 7th is the last one. There isn't an 8th trump like many are inventing. The second coming, resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture of the living saints is at the 7th trump, when the great Tribulation has ended.
 

ewq1938

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The 7th trump of Revelation is the same last trump Paul speaks of because that's when the dead in Christ are raised along with his second coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Here we have the second coming associated with a trumpet, and the dead in Christ rising, and the rapture.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


And here we have a trumpet called the last trump, and the dead in Christ being raised. This clearly is at the second coming as the other verse makes clear. The dead in Christ rise and Christ returns. So all we have to do is find out which end times trumpet Christ returns in:

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here we have the end of the Tribulation, and the sounding of the last of the 7 trumps. Though not explicitly mentioned here, I think the language does highly imply Christ's second coming is at this time. The second coming is directly tied to the time for wrath:

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


We see this wrath in greater detail here:


Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

So, the "last trump" is the same as the last of the 7 trumpets of Revelation and it is when Christ returns, the dead in Christ rise and the rapture all take place.