Limited Atonement VS Universal Atonement

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BreadOfLife

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What I want you to know is that as one who believes in eternal security, I do not believe that we ought to discount the warnings in scripture against falling away; for I believe that the warnings serve as a safeguard that keeps a person in the fold through the fear of the LORD...

So if you don't wish the loss of salvation on anyone, then a true and faithful assurance that one cannot lose it is not something that you would want to fight against (since such an assurance might serve as a helmet in the fixture of spiritual battle)...it is only a false assurance of the same that would be an opponent of sound doctrine in your opinion...and this is also how I view the issue.
No – I fight against the idea because it is a phony, man-made 16th century invention. It is NOT a Biblical truth, as I have proven on NUMEROUS occasions now.

As I have stated over and over and over – you cannot get past the following verses of Scripture and STILL maintain that OSAS is a Biblical doctrine (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

Epignosis is the word used in these passages. It implies a full, experiential and relational knowledge of Christ - not just a simple knowledge (gnosis, oida) of the intellect.

Epignosis illustrates a person who has a deep relationship with someone.
Some Protestant encyclopedias even go so far as to define it as "Christian Faith"). YOU keep ignoring this fact . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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No He doesnt never has, it is what the religious do as you do to put men into bondage and keep the from God.

Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

keep going...
Soooooo, you DON’T have to pick up your cross DAILY to follow Him??
Jesus says you DO (Luke 9:23).

You DON’T have to DO the will of the Father??
Jesus
says you DO (Matt. 7:21).

You DON’T have to OBEY His commands??
Jesus says you DO (John 14:15).


You DON’T know your Bible very well, do you sparky??
 

mjrhealth

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Soooooo, you DON’T have to pick up your cross DAILY to follow Him??
Jesus says you DO (Luke 9:23).

You DON’T have to DO the will of the Father??
Jesus
says you DO (Matt. 7:21).

You DON’T have to OBEY His commands??
Jesus says you DO (John 14:15).


You DON’T know your Bible very well, do you sparky??
Getting angry are we. ye always happens when the truth is spoken to the religious, Have a lovely day:)
 

justbyfaith

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Colossians 2:9 is stating that Jesus is FULLY God.

It is NOT stating that HE manifests ALL 3 Persons.

That's what you think...the fulness of the Godhead is not a mere 1/3 of Deity.

Peter didn’t “depart” from the Trinitarian formula.

I beg to differ. Acts 2:38 says clearly, Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Where is the Father mentioned?

baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water;

Living water is the Holy Spirit; however the prototype for baptism in scripture was the baptism of John, which was in physical water.

As I have stated over and over and over – you cannot get past the following verses of Scripture and STILL maintain that OSAS is a Biblical doctrine (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

Epignosis is the word used in these passages.

I do not find the word epignosis in every one of those passages. It may not even be in any of them. Wouldn't it be translated as "knowledge" in the English?

No – I fight against the idea because it is a phony, man-made 16th century invention. It is NOT a Biblical truth, as I have proven on NUMEROUS occasions now.

No, you have not. Because to do so would be to rip out of our biblical understanding what is written in John 5:24, John 6:47, John 10:27-30, Hebrews 13:5, and Matthew 28:20. You are going to have to cut these verses out of your Bible soon; because in denying what they teach us you are effectively doing that in your heart (taking away from the word of the Lord).

Epignosis illustrates a person who has a deep relationship with someone.

The Greek definition for epignosis can denote a mental assent that is absolutely certain; as opposed to a heart faith that is unto the biblical righteousness of faith (Romans 10:10, Philippians 3:9, Revelation 19:8, Galatians 2:16).

It should be clear that the only ones who fall away as believers are the ones who have a nominal, shallow, or lukewarm faith (which can be certain, but which does not have an effect on the righteousness of the person's life); because this faith has nothing to do with the heart: it is a dead faith that is incapable of bringing real salvation to the one who has it. It is a faith that, while certain in the mind, is only of the mind: the person who has it is ten inches away from real salvation. This is the type that "believe" for a while and then fall away (Luke 8:13) and who never get around to bearing any good fruit.

These are not those on whom the seed is planted in good soil, in the parable of the sower; for they are the elect; who have been predestinated unto salvation, so that the glorification of their bodies is as sure as if it has already happened; for it is spoken of in the past tense (Romans 8:30).
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It appears to me that you are hung up on this word epignosis and have made a pet doctrine out of it.

It is not biblical, however, when you look at what all of scripture says about the subject at hand.
 
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Heb 13:8

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WHAT are you talking about??

The Mosaic Law has been fulfilled. We are no longer bound by the Mosaic Law. ALL of the dietary, cleanliness and ceremonial aspect of the Mosaic Law were simply SHADOWS of what was to come. Christ is the REALITY (Col. 2:16-17). I thought we already got PAST this point.

Our Christian works have NOTHING to do with the Mosaic Law.

What is the list of our christian works so i know not to lose salvation
 

justbyfaith

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You DON’T have to OBEY His commands??
Jesus says you DO (John 14:15).
John 14:15 actually says that you will obey His commands if you do love Him.

Or, He is saying, if you say that you love Him, then prove it by obeying His commands.

However, it is not there making obedience a requirement for salvation. If you are saved, then you will love Him (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5); and if you love Him, you will obey Him.

So obedience is the result of having been saved and not in any way a catalyst for our salvation.

Of course, repentance is a requirement for salvation; and that amounts to agreeing to be obedient for the rest of your life.
 
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Heb 13:8

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Heb. 10:26-27

Epignosis is the word used in these passages. It implies a full, experiential and relational knowledge of Christ - not just a simple knowledge (gnosis, oida) of the intellect.

Epignosis illustrates a person who has a deep relationship with someone.
Some Protestant encyclopedias even go so far as to define it as "Christian Faith"). YOU keep ignoring this fact . . .

I don't think anyone is denying the agape love in Hebrews, rather we deny the contradiction that there is no further sacrifice made for sins when Christ died for all sin, contradictions in the same chapter Heb 10:1-18, and what does he say about you.. Jhn 9:35-41

Heb 6:9 Even though we speak like this, dear (agapétos) friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation.

agapétos: beloved
Original Word: ἀγαπητός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: agapétos
Phonetic Spelling: (ag-ap-ay-tos')
Definition: beloved

Usage: loved, beloved, with two special applications: the Beloved, a title of the Messiah (Christ), as beloved beyond all others by the God who sent Him; of Christians, as beloved by God, Christ, and one another.

HELPS Word-studies
27 agapētós (a verbal adjective, derived from 26 /agápē, "love") – properly, divinely-loved; beloved ("loved by God"), i.e. personally experiencing God's "agapē-love."
 

justbyfaith

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The WILLINGNESS to forsake everything we have for the Kingdom of God is what is important – NOT the idea that every Christian must abandon his house and job and live in the streets.
The requirement to forsake all that you have is significantly less of a requirement than what you have laid forth...that we must take up our cross and follow Him...for that involves actual death, not just the loss of possessions...
 

BreadOfLife

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What is the list of our christian works so i know not to lose salvation
There's no "List".
If you're in a moral situation and you DON'T know God's will - then you DON'T belong to Him.
 

Helen

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There's no "List".
If you're in a moral situation and you DON'T know God's will - then you DON'T belong to Him.

Hmmm :)
Are you sure about that?

Ps 24 says :-
"The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. "
 

BreadOfLife

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John 14:15 actually says that you will obey His commands if you do love Him.

Or, He is saying, if you say that you love Him, then prove it by obeying His commands.

However, it is not there making obedience a requirement for salvation. If you are saved, then you will love Him (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5); and if you love Him, you will obey Him.

So obedience is the result of having been saved and not in any way a catalyst for our salvation.

Of course, repentance is a requirement for salvation; and that amounts to agreeing to be obedient for the rest of your life.
IF you love Him.

Not
everybody who starts out loving Him and being faithful to Him ENDURES in that love and faith.
The Bible is CLEAR about this (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).
 

justbyfaith

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IF you love Him.

Not
everybody who starts out loving Him and being faithful to Him ENDURES in that love and faith.
The Bible is CLEAR about this (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).
Not everyone...but His elect, designated as good soil in scripture, have in their possession the promises of John 5:24 (kjv), John 6:47 (kjv), John 10:27-30 (kjv), Hebrews 13:5-6 (kjv), and Matthew 28:20 (kjv). Their future glorification is spoken of in the past tense (Romans 8:30)...it's already done!
 

BreadOfLife

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Hmmm :)
Are you sure about that?

Ps 24 says :-
"The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. "
The point I was making is that there is no "list" of deeds we must do.
The Bible is clear that we must DO God's will (Matt. 7:21).

Jesus said that WHATEVER we do for the least of His brethren - we do to HIM (Matt. 23:45).
 

justbyfaith

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The point I was making is that there is no "list" of deeds we must do.
The Bible is clear that we must DO God's will (Matt. 7:21).

Jesus said that WHATEVER we do for the least of His brethren - we do to HIM (Matt. 23:45).
So if you oppress the poor, you are oppressing Jesus Himself.

It would indicate to me that if anyone is born again, they have compassion for those who are less fortunate than themselves and will not oppress the poor because of the transformation that the Lord has wrought in their heart.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Not everyone...but His elect, designated as good soil in scripture, have in their possession the promises of John 5:24 (kjv), John 6:47 (kjv), John 10:27-30 (kjv), Hebrews 13:5-6 (kjv), and Matthew 28:20 (kjv). Their future glorification is spoken of in the past tense (Romans 8:30)...it's already done!
Wanna BET??
Salvation is a process - not a one time, slam-dunk event.

The Bible assures that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process – it ALSO says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

Cherry-picking gets you nowhere.
As usual - context is NOT your friend . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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So if you oppress the poor, you are oppressing Jesus Himself.

It would indicate to me that if anyone is born again, they have compassion for those who are less fortunate than themselves and will not oppress the poor because of the transformation that the Lord has wrought in their heart.
IF they REMAIN faithful.
NOT everybody does (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)..
 

justbyfaith

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Again, you are pitting scripture against scripture instead of considering the scriptures being presented by the opposite pov of what you believe...

re #757.
 

justbyfaith

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So if you oppress the poor, you are oppressing Jesus Himself.

It would indicate to me that if anyone is born again, they have compassion for those who are less fortunate than themselves and will not oppress the poor because of the transformation that the Lord has wrought in their heart.

IF they REMAIN faithful.
NOT everybody does (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)..
How long do they have to remain faithful before they are able to have compassion on the poor?