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Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Episkopos, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    the irony of those who believe they might become immortal and go to heaven after they have died but have no Support for the notion dissing "eastern mysticism?"
    um, yikes. Well I agree that many believe they have faith in Christ, but I guess that isn't what you meant
     
  2. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Past, present and future.
     
  3. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the whole mystic ascended Masters, etc. is imagination and nonsense.

    Then you guess wrong. Faith is based on belief.
     
  4. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    My polling says otherwise, never heard a beleif about the present proffered by anyone claiming to be Christian. Not a single one
     
  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    I don't count?

    And I would suggest you pick the wrong polling population.
     
  6. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    oh well certainly there are Eastern charlatans too, ya
    well, not disagreeing, but plenty o ppl with lots of beliefs and no faith I guess
     
  7. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Well, it has been a few years since I tested that...but you have not stated a belief about the present yet either
     
  8. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Most in the mysticism believe the lie.

    Faith resides in the individual. You cannot pull for personal honesty.

    Plus no poll has any value if populations are not correctly selected and the results not properly weighted.
     
  9. friend of

    friend of Active Member

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    No, I totally get that. A Christian (born again) will naturally hate their old sin nature and starve it. That's the path I'm on, and hope everyone else is on. But i thought we were talking about initial Grace? We can't earn that, and even if we follow the Lord obediently 100% we are still not owed salvation.

    Well, I'm still on the fence about the sinless perfectionism thing. I say people will only truly be free of sin when they are glorified with Christ.

    I'm skeptical when people, Christian or otherwise, claim to be so lockstep with God's thinking like this. His ways are higher than ours, His thoughts also higher. Dont get me wrong, I think it's a gift to have such a fearless, childlike dependence on our Father heaven, and I used to experience this vividly when I was younger. But about a year ago it's as though He pulled me aside and made me realize just how little my understanding really is in the grand scheme, and I realized how some of the things I was imagining were coming from Him were actually less in-line with His will than I'd previously thought... I'm now more dependent than I ever could have imagined and it's really placed me in the position to be more in awe of Him.
     
  10. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Our spirits are joined to Christ via the Holy Spirit and washed clean.

    Our flesh is still human flesh. It will not be changed until the rapture.

    Our soul, meaning the totality of mind, body and spirit struggles with sin.

    Total Sanctification means both our spirit and body are free of sin, which is a lie.

    Paul tells us we struggle with sin every day and sent every day. Everyone, not just some.

    Episkopos
    Has send a lot on this forum for the accusations against others and false teachings of the Bible.

    For those who are familiar, he has embraced aspects of Eastern mysticism and Gnosticism.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  11. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Is the grace initial because we inevitably fall from it? We are given a taste of divine life. We experience what it means to be alive in the real eternal sense(if we have really been born from above). Then we are tempted to come back and live in this world as any other person...as we once did. Yet we have this God-consciousness now that we didn't have before.

    So we usually seek a medium ground somewhere between what is practical and what appeases our God-consciousness. We look for a doctrine that allows for both of these things...in compromise. That compromise becomes our belief system whereby we justify our LACK of eternal life in experience.
     
  12. friend of

    friend of Active Member

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    Right and you'know the thing about that is that Paul was obviously, probably, hands-down the most Spirit-filled man walking the earth at the time. Yet even he did not consider himself to have reached the goal. He still acknowledged that he was an imperfect creature, in many ways prone to the same temptations we all face. Not to say he wasn't radically sanctified, of course. But this kind of makes me realize that we, who are on the flesh, cannot truly please God the way He deserves. We should never stop striving.

    2 Corinthians 13:11(kjv)
    Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
     
  13. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    This is an easy one. Do you believe that Jesus is without sin? Do you are abide in Him who is without sin? or do you follow a sinful Christ?

    If we abide in Christ we don't adhere to a perfectionism belief...we LIVE His perfect kind of Life through our location...which is in Him. Our perfection is not our own...but His. So then those who sin all the time have neither seen Him nor known Him. We are commanded to be perfect...because we have now been given the grace to do so. Of course that is IF we have actually entered INTO Christ.

    As I said...most of us are lukewarm in our devotion to God without realizing we have compromised...because everyone seems to be doing the same thing.

    The religious pride flares up when people realize that if the bible says that we should not sin...and we still do...then we have to criticize anyone who quotes the bible as being "gnostic" or some other insult. But really it is God being insulted.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  14. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    The Christian walk is a movement WITH God. As such we cab easily fall behind...or move to fast and go ahead of Him. God speed is the best speed we can live and walk in. :)
     
    friend of likes this.
  15. friend of

    friend of Active Member

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    I thought we came to it... by the mercy of God.

    Why would someone with God-consciousness need a middle ground then? I thought, according to you, having the God-consciousness means we have no need for beliefs or doctrines anymore...?

    And idk man. Is studying scripture and forming beliefs surrounding scripture not walking by Faith?
     
  16. friend of

    friend of Active Member

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    Absolutely. His sacrifice wouldn't have paid the price for the sins of the world had the Lamb of God been blemished by any sin.

    Do you really not do anything you would count as sin? No unsavory thoughts? No flashes of irritation? No struggle with the flesh whatsoever?
     
  17. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Following a sinless Christ does not make us sinless.
     
  18. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Nobody survives in grace by trying to milk the initial grace for their whole lives. As soon as you sin (that eads to death) you lose that grace and must go back to God for a new filling. We tend to leak out grace at first. Then we learn to treasure God and treat Him less familiarly.
    It's what we tend to do. Modern people are very prgmatic and like multi-tasking. None of that single minded walk with God.

    Having a God-consciousness is good...but we mainly end up just trying to appease it rather than going further and pleasing God with ALL we are doing. Most people treat that consciousness as something to dampen down somewhat.

    We should never form any beliefs from scripture. That is the way of religion. Instead the life of God should take us into what is being described in the bible...so that we enter into that same adventure with God. God is trying to reach us...we are not trying to study Him.

    When you look someone in the eye are you studying their corneas to see if they are medically sound? Or are you looking deeper into their soul?

    Such is the difference between relationship and religion-ship.
     
  19. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    In the Spirit there is no sin. But it is difficult to remain in the Spirit. There is no one around us that understands and encourages us. No earthly environment to help the spiritual walk...no church.

    The struggle with the flesh means you are walking by your kind of faith...not the faith OF Jesus.

    We all are subject to the same laws. I have walked in the Spirit...and for various lengths of time. But I have also fallen out of that intimacy with God WHERE He is due to very hard trials and tests from the enemy that over time I forgot to be careful about. The devil uses other Christians to tempt us so often. So we are sometimes not as careful in that regard. But I have learned to trust no one...or myself. Trust the Lord.

    I see the Christian walk like baseball...the minor leagues and the major leagues. The minor leagues is when we walk in our own strength and still sin. The majors are when He is living through us...doing those things that are impossible for anyone but Him. In HIM is no sin. But in us there is a mixture of good and bad things. We are a mixture. But in Christ we are without spot or wrinkle.
     
  20. friend of

    friend of Active Member

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    Agree.

    Disagree. Salvation is not a revolving door.

    Romans 2:4
    Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

    I uber disagree here, because I'm not sure I can ascribe to your definition of "belief" as per this thread.

    Absolutely agree.

    Anyway, Episkopos (Greek for "overseer?) thanks for the chat. It's been fun, but I must retire. May the Lord bless you and answer all your prayers on this fine sunny day.
     
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