Living Faith

[bbyrd009]

So then God is raising up a people...very few in number...but accumulating throughout history....who walk in victory having neither spot nor wrinkle of sin in them. These have been purged and purified 7 times.

and you are hereby claiming to be one of them, right?

 

[bbyrd009]

It all depends on where we ‘see’ our sin....ie upon ourselves , or upon Him.

If He says that He took it, are we to stand there and declare that we still have it!!!

well I'll let you interpret you eat and wipe your mouth and say you have done nothing wrong for yourself, but I would reiterate that the sins of the whole world have been atoned for. "He took it" hardly means "I can still do it and He will make it disappear" or anything, right?

So yes, you are definitely supposed to declare it if you still have it imo,
confess your sins, one to another
He who says he has no sin (ahem) is deceived

 

[Episkopos]

and you are hereby claiming to be one of them, right?

Of course not. I could be a person who was tested and deemed a failure. To whom much is given more is required. Paul feared rejection by God. That's because he actually knew God. Those who don't know God don't fear Him and aren't concerned for their own spiritual welfare. They are numb about it.

Look at major league sports. Not everybody who makes it to training camp makes the team and gets a number on their jersey.

But I have been fully exposed to the standard and power of God. I let God judge me...I don't judge myself.

 

[bbyrd009]

Of course not. I could be a person who was tested and deemed a failure. To whom much is given more is required. Paul feared rejection by God. That's because he actually knew God. Those who don't know God don't fear Him and aren't concerned for their own spiritual welfare. They are numb about it.

Look at major league sports. Not everybody who makes it to training camp makes the team and gets a number on their jersey.

But I have been fully exposed to the standard and power of God. I let God judge me...I don't judge myself.

Ok well I suggest judging yourself and recognizing that God is not our judge, too ok

 

[Helen]

"He took it" hardly means "I can still do it and He will make it disappear" or anything, right?

What is the IT that we are talking about here?

Are you talking about SINS or SIN. ?

What do you see as daily sins in the Christians?

"For me" the only act of sin is a violation of LOVE, Love God, love brother...

Gluttony is not sin...it was in the OT. It is stupid, but is 'love of self' a weakness. Im not sure what "IT" we are talking about.

 

[bbyrd009]

But I have been fully exposed to the standard and power of God.

well, so you say, tbh I'm not sure what that even means and I still doubt it

Wadr I can't say one doesn't have it, until they profess that they do I guess

 

[bbyrd009]

What is the IT that we are talking about here?

Are you talking about SINS or SIN. ?

What do you see as daily sins in the Christians?

"For me" the only act of sin is a violation of LOVE, Love God, love brother...

Gluttony is not sin...it was in the OT. It is stupid, but is 'love of self' a weakness. Im not sure what "IT" we are talking about.

any sin that we do not confess I guess
but note that it was your "it" right, not mine,

It all depends on where we ‘see’ our sin....ie upon ourselves , or upon Him.

If He says that He took it, are we to stand there and declare that we still have it!!!

 

[friend of]

If we were always in the Spirit then we would never learn to have faith without experiencing His power.

I suppose this makes sense.
James 1:2-4 , 1 Peter 1:7

When we love Jesus and want to serve Him but still sin because we are too weak to overcome sin...then we are "under the law."

Disagree. I do not believe we go all the way back under the law when we sin mistakenly. This statement paints the picture of Grace/Condemnation again as a revolving door. Inevitably sinning once in a while is not the same as "living according to the flesh" or being "governed" by the flesh. Being obedient (and failing sometimes) does not mean we are living according to the law, to be justified by it.

...through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:1-4

 

[friend of]

I agree. God is not in a swivel chair. We are abiding or we are not. It is finished and we are a grateful and forgiven people. He knows His own and His own know Him. We are NOT perfect but, we are becoming closer in His Spirit...if we indeed are His. Sin will not fit the true follower of Christ and if one thinks they have licence to sin then, IMHO-how can they truly be saved? Wheres the fruit?
In His Name!
nancy ♥

YES, absolutely and emphatically AMEN.

 

[bbyrd009]

I suppose this makes sense.
James 1:2-4 , 1 Peter 1:7



Disagree. I do not believe we go all the way back under the law when we sin mistakenly. This statement paints the picture of Grace/Condemnation again as a revolving door. Inevitably sinning once in a while is not the same as "living according to the flesh" or being "governed" by the flesh. Being obedient (and failing sometimes) does not mean we are living according to the law, to be justified by it.

...through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:1-4

Yes, imo two diff concepts are being conflated there

 

[Episkopos]

I suppose this makes sense.
James 1:2-4 , 1 Peter 1:7



Disagree. I do not believe we go all the way back under the law when we sin mistakenly. This statement paints the picture of Grace/Condemnation again as a revolving door. Inevitably sinning once in a while is not the same as "living according to the flesh" or being "governed" by the flesh. Being obedient (and failing sometimes) does not mean we are living according to the law, to be justified by it.

...through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:1-4

There is sin that leads to death. In the end all sin leads to death. Some sins just take you there quicker.

But look at what Paul says about sin....whether in the law or out.

Romans 2:12, "All who sin apart from the law will perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."

Who do you think is included in "All who sin" ???

Do you think that sinning apart from the law is under grace?

 

[Helen]

any sin that we do not confess I guess
but note that it was your "it" right, not mine,

The it is SIN. ( but it reads like you 'count every little separate sin' )
Jesus came to remove sin from us, the sin of Adam that we inherited.
He either did that...or He did not!!

If we say that He did not..then we make God a liar.
Isa 53 "God saw the travail of His soul and was satisfied.."

The weight of sin was upon Him. If not then the cross is just laughable.

Do we often fail in appropriating His grace? Yes.
Do we fail in believing that what God said that He had done, He did? Yes.
We still believe that we can get ourselves to 'heaven' by being good, by doing better, ...
"What shall we do that we may work the works of God? And He answered, this is the work on God, that you believe on Him who He sent."

Believing is so hard, we are much happier believing that we can DO something other than have faith.

So "shall we sin that grace may abound? God forbid."
Love keeps us on the straight and narrow, love is the only measuring rod.

 

[friend of]

What do you see as daily sins in the Christians?

A great example would be sins of omission.

James 4:17

 

[friend of]

Romans 2:12, "All who sin apart from the law will perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."

We who are in Christ are no longer under the Law. We're under Grace Paul was speaking about outsiders of the faith here.

 

[friend of]

Do you think that sinning apart from the law is under grace?

In another post you admitted that you weren't sinless. Meaning you believe you're back under the Law again, since you were too weak to abide in Christ. However, if sinning accidentally would truly put us out from under Grace consistently, then the Spirit would surely not keep coming back to return to us on the path of uprightness, forgiving us our transgressions, and strengthening us further.

 

[Episkopos]

We who are in Christ are no longer under the Law. We're under Grace Paul was speaking about outsiders of the faith here.

As false as can be. You are using doublespeak. I am saying that we who are IN Christ (where there is no sin) are saved from sin from that abiding.

But you are saying that the law no longer applies to you so you can sin...because God loves you.

read the bible without your indoctrination glasses on. All who sin apart from the law will perish without the law.

That's not grace.


Grace is found IN Christ where there is no sin.

If I say the moon has no atmosphere and only a small amount of gravity and is cold. So if you go out in winter and feel the cold...you will claim to be on the moon. But where is the lack of gravity and atmosphere? You will not have satisfied the criteria for being on the moon. THAT is what your argument is like. You are not even being logical.

In Christ IS NO sin. So if you sin...you are doing so OUTSIDE of Christ. You are not abiding in Christ AND sinning.

 

[bbyrd009]

The it is SIN. ( but it reads like you 'count every little separate sin' )
Jesus came to remove sin from us, the sin of Adam that we inherited.
He either did that...or He did not!!

He did not, as you will find when you go to try and Quote that I guess

If we say that He did not..then we make God a liar.
Isa 53 "God saw the travail of His soul and was satisfied.."

The weight of sin was upon Him. If not then the cross is just laughable.

yes, the cross is made of no affect if you do not pick it up, and expect the Son of Man to have died for your sins bc you believe something, rather than the sins of the whole world as Scripture states.

Do we often fail in appropriating His grace? Yes.
Do we fail in believing that what God said that He had done, He did? Yes.
We still believe that we can get ourselves to 'heaven' by being good, by doing better, ...
"What shall we do that we may work the works of God? And He answered, this is the work on God, that you believe on Him who He sent."

Believing is so hard, we are much happier believing that we can DO something other than have faith.

So "shall we sin that grace may abound? God forbid."
Love keeps us on the straight and narrow, love is the only measuring rod.

hmm, believing is hard now, and equated with faith here too, so I'd have to consider a reply to that first

 

[Episkopos]

In another post you admitted that you weren't sinless. Meaning you believe you're back under the Law again, since you were too weak to abide in Christ. However, if sinning accidentally would truly put us out from under Grace consistently, then the Spirit would surely not keep coming back to return to us on the path of uprightness, forgiving us our transgressions, and strengthening us further.

I have been sinless...IN Christ. He is and was my sinlessness. He is/was my victory. When I am tempted away from His shelter and power (under grace) I return to the natural world which is under the law of sin.

If it is raining outside and I am exposed to the air then I am UNDER the rain. I get wet...no surprise there. But if I have an umbrella then I am saved from the rain because I am UNDER the umbrella. I remain dry. However, If my umbrella blows away in the wind...then I am again UNDER the rain. I get wet again.


So then think of sin as getting wet in the elements of this world...as we do in the rain. The umbrella is grace.

Too simple?

We sin when we are tempted AWAY FROM Christ.

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Drawn away from what or whom???

Drawn away from our protection of grace.

Just as the umbrella is effective against rain...so grace is effective (sufficient) against sin.

UNDER the shadow of His wings....

 

[bbyrd009]

I have been sinless...IN Christ

Ok well so you say, Bible says different. If you say you have no sin you are deceived

 

[Episkopos]

Ok well so you say, Bible says different. If you say you have no sin you are deceived

If we sin we have neither seen Him or known Him. (Same author as you have misunderstood and misquoted)