Living Faith

[bbyrd009]

I have been sinless...IN Christ. He is and was my sinlessness. He is/was my victory. When I am tempted away from His shelter and power (under grace) I return to the natural world which is under the law of sin

that is what you might like to believe, but that does not comport with Scripture nor reality wadr.

Great way to avoid having to confess though I guess huh, just profess instead?

 

[Helen]

Ok well so you say, Bible says different. If you say you have no sin you are deceived

You can't build a doctrine on one part verse.. too many many other verses against it!!
That is not the Gospel = Good News.
We either declare ourselves dead to sin...or we choose to hug it to our breast like the asp.

Rom 6 “Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
That is the "work".

But best if we just stop now...your mind has been made up already!

 

[bbyrd009]

If we sin we have neither seen Him or known Him. (Same author as you have misunderstood and misquoted)

ok, go with that then, and have a nice day.
you don't have to bother demonstrating "misunderstood and misquoted" to anyone, surely
and you can skip all those posts you don't want to confront too, ok with me

 

[bbyrd009]

You can't build a doctrine on one part verse.. too many many other verses against it!!
That is not the Gospel = Good News.
We either declare ourselves dead to sin...or we choose to hug it to our breast like the asp.

Rom 6 “Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
That is the "work".

But best if we just stop now...your mind has been made up already!

Might get you to Nehushtan worship I guess, and wadr no one has ever busted a grape doing that I guess. Stop whenever you can't stand the heat any more lol, and go sing "when we all get to heaven" with your friends, as long as that seems right to you, I am not meaning to condemn that either

 

[Episkopos]

ok, go with that then, and have a nice day.
you don't have to bother demonstrating "misunderstood and misquoted" to anyone, surely

Surely. ALL have sinned and fallen short. We cannot deny that. But John never says we HAVE to continue in sin. That is utter nonsense making the bible an apologetic that condones sin.

 

[bbyrd009]

I have been sinless...IN Christ. He is and was my sinlessness. He is/was my victory. When I am tempted away from His shelter and power (under grace) I return to the natural world which is under the law of sin.

If it is raining outside and I am exposed to the air then I am UNDER the rain. I get wet...no surprise there. But if I have an umbrella then I am saved from the rain because I am UNDER the umbrella. I remain dry. However, If my umbrella blows away in the wind...then I am again UNDER the rain. I get wet again.


So then think of sin as getting wet in the elements of this world...as we do in the rain. The umbrella is grace.

Too simple?

We sin when we are tempted AWAY FROM Christ.

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Drawn away from what or whom???

Drawn away from our protection of grace.

Just as the umbrella is effective against rain...so grace is effective (sufficient) against sin.

The ignorant have an umbrella, sure; not only our sins, but the sins of the whole world.
Ignorance is not a sin, right, but hypocrisy is?
So imo trade that umbrella for a cross ok

 

[Episkopos]

So imo trade that umbrella for a cross ok

Exactly! But people don't understand the power of the cross that crucifies our tendency to sin....so I have to use the umbrella idea to put across the power of it.

Would people understand what staying out of the rain is like by being under the shadow of His wings?

 

[bbyrd009]

Surely. ALL have sinned and fallen short. We cannot deny that. But John never says we HAVE to continue in sin. That is utter nonsense making the bible an apologetic that condones sin.

I am not saying that you have to continue in sin either Epi, just that I would accept that as our default rather than this pious self-testifying of sinlessness and "leaning on Jesus" that identifies Nehushtan worshippers who have not yet found No Son of Man may die for another's sins

 

[bbyrd009]

Exactly! But people don't understand the power of the cross that crucifies our tendency to sin....so I have to use the umbrella idea to put across the power of it.

So now we are talking about Jesus' cross I guess, not your own right

look, you profess "long periods" of "no sin," right; is it possible that you were sinning by omission, or w/o realizing it, or no?

 

[Episkopos]

I am not saying that you have to continue in sin either Epi, just that I would accept that as our default rather than this pious self-testifying of sinlessness and "leaning on Jesus" that identifies Nehushtan worshippers who have not yet found No Son of Man may die for another's sins

Our "natural" condition is as sinners...and hopelessly so. Our "super-natural" condition is as saints who are holy as Jesus is.

How? By the power given to us through Christ becoming as we are and developing a way for us to follow Him in that same power. This is called the "Way".

 

[Episkopos]

So now we are talking about Jesus' cross I guess, not your own right

look, you profess "long periods" of "no sin," right; is it possible that you were sinning by omission, or w/o realizing it, or no?

No. Because I was WITH God in Zion. Living in both places with this world slightly out of focus. There is no sin possible IN Christ. The only omission is we omit God.

Here is an exercise of what it is like. Focus on something close to you. You can still notice things in the distance but they are out of focus. Now do the opposite. The same thing but in reverse.

Now walk in the Spirit and the things of this world grow faint.

There is a spiritual veil that once removed allows us to see in depth into the Spirit. That's how Jesus saw the world. And that's how we see as He did so we can walk as He did.

 

[bbyrd009]

Do yourself a favor and go find "Jesus did not die for your sins" whenever you are ready. Most of them are trying to lead you to a better understanding of Christ I think

 

[bbyrd009]

Our "natural" condition is as sinners...and hopelessly so. Our "super-natural" condition is as saints who are holy as Jesus is.

How? By the power given to us through Christ becoming as we are and developing a way for us to follow Him in that same power. This is called the "Way".

yes, that few find, and that mostly manifests twice the sons of hell you are!
not meaning to ID "you" there, but after all these are revealed in their professions I think, who one identifies as "we" and "us," etc.

iow no reason anyone in the world cannot be included in that "us," until we start listening to a "believers" interp right

 

[Episkopos]

yes, that few find, and that mostly manifests twice the sons of hell you are!

If you falsely claim to see when you don't...yes. But the opposite is also true....when you do see into the Spirit then you are a son of heaven.

 

[bbyrd009]

No. Because I was WITH God in Zion.

ah, when was that

Living in both places

a foot in both worlds? This I'm fam with at least, ya

 

[bbyrd009]

There is a spiritual veil that once removed allows us to see in depth into the Spirit. That's how Jesus saw the world. And that's how we see as He did so we can walk as He did.

well "we" can hope for this, sure, but saying "that's how we see" immediately dqs anyone who says that, hopefully that is apparent. "We" are mostly an Emo bunch of hypocrites enjoying our tares I guess, or at least that is my "we"

but "we" are free to ID as we like of course

 

[bbyrd009]

And that's how we see as He did so we can walk as He did.

"Christ I like; Christians, not so much" paraphrased, or I would say
"one of these things
is not like the other"

 

[bbyrd009]

If you falsely claim to see when you don't...yes. But the opposite is also true....when you do see into the Spirit then you are a son of heaven.

not disagreeing, but those are not opposites either

 

[Helen]

@amadeus

John can you read posts #86 - #92 between bbyrd009 and myself and tell me what I am not seeing or getting? Add in also #104 and the one of his I am replying to..thanks, hope you have time..
For the life of my I can't see what Mark is saying? ( or trying to say )
You know us both well, so you know how we think... Ha!

 

[bbyrd009]

people don't understand the power of the cross that crucifies our tendency to sin

more like crucifies our need to confess our sin I guess. I mean no offense, but umbrellas are quite a bit lighter and portable than crosses, eh