Living Faith

[friend of]

In the Spirit there is no sin. But it is difficult to remain in the Spirit.

True. If we weren't literally covered in the flesh it wouldn't be difficult at all to remain in the Spirit.

 

[Episkopos]

Disagree. Salvation is not a revolving door.

You are not understanding salvation. Salvation is not found in us....but in Christ. And we come in and out of the Spirit. Like breathing in and out (in the macro sense).

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Your words are "revolving door"...which comes from your lack of understanding and all too close relationship with the temporal world. I said...in and out of the Spirit.

Does that mean we come in and out of salvation? Well, that is YOUR definition of salvation...that somehow you own it...which you don't. It is the Lord's.

 

[friend of]

Oh, boy, here we go again!

You are not understanding salvation. Salvation is not found in us....but in Christ. And we come in and out of the Spirit. Like breathing in and out (in the macro sense).

All who die without Grace are eternally damned, right? If we have to go back to God for a filling of Grace, it sounds like you are saying we lose that Grace everytime we sin, and forfeit our salvation on a consistent basis. To which I must disagree.

However, if you are saying that we get disconnected from Him by sin, then I'm more liable to agree. Sin muddles our communion with God because He hates it. We repent, and God puts us back on track to live the way He wants us to live.

But I do not ascribe to the idea that God is a schizophrenic who loves us based on our performance one minute, then is willing to cast us off the next due to the obvious human frailties we possess (which are totally expected in His sight.)

Anyway, your concepts (beliefs? Lol) are interesting. Thanks for sharing them.

 

[bbyrd009]

Plus no poll has any value if populations are not correctly selected and the results not properly weighted.

Well I dunno about "any" there, but fwiw I am the guy who builds those protocols (for unbiased sampling) for accurate algorithms, the hardest part of the job imo. If you get "none" as a return for "any" imo that would be significant even if biased tho.

 

[Episkopos]

All who die without Grace are eternally damned, right? If we have to go back to God for a filling of Grace, it sounds like you are saying we lose that Grace everytime we sin, and forfeit our salvation on a consistent basis. To which I must disagree.

If we sin a sin according to death...then we fall out of the Spirit (grace). Read 1 John.

If a person is trying to perform by the law...Paul says he has fallen from grace. But you are always thinking of salvation as something you own.

 

[bbyrd009]

Our spirits are joined to Christ the Holy Spirit and wash clean.

Ha well but who is this "our" that so easily testifies of themselves, and does not apparently contemplate what Scripture has to say on the matter? Surely ppl who would condemn psychedelic mushrooms out the other side of their mouths and think to debate the meaning of "testify of yourself," yes? Twice the sons of hell, with seven worse spirits?

 

[bbyrd009]

Salvation is not a revolving door.

You are not understanding salvation. Salvation is not found in us....but in Christ. And we come in and out of the Spirit. Like breathing in and out (in the macro sense).

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Your words are "revolving door"...which comes from your lack of understanding and all too close relationship with the temporal world. I said...in and out of the Spirit.

Does that mean we come in and out of salvation? Well, that is YOUR definition of salvation...that somehow you own it...which you don't. It is the Lord's.

i like the revolving door illustration, quite apt imo

 

[Helen]

Isnt Grace the unmerited favor of God?

That is the excepted definition...but go and study the ROOT words of the original.
It is much deeper the just “unmerited favour”

 

[friend of]

If we sin a sin according to death...then we fall out of the Spirit (grace). Read 1 John

This is a specific sin though. Not every sin is a sin leading to death.

i like the revolving door illustration, quite apt imo

Episkopos' interpretation of John 10:9 is unique. However, after considering it, I've found the idea of going in and out to be flawed. Once we are in Christ, I dont see why Christ would want is to "go out" of Him and then come back in over and again. Wouldn't He want us to simply remain in Him? "Remain in me, and I will remain in you" John 15:4

 

[Episkopos]

This is a specific sin though. Not every sin is a sin leading to death.



Episkopos' interpretation of John 10:9 is unique. However, after considering it, I've found the idea of going in and out to be flawed. Once we are in Christ, I dont see why Christ would want is to "go out" of Him and then come back in over and again. Wouldn't He want us to simply remain in Him? "Remain in me, and I will remain in you" John 15:4

Theory and good intentions always gets in the way of reality. The truth about us is that we need to go in and out to learn to have character. If the earth had no gravity we would have no strength in our muscles. If we were always in the Spirit then we would never learn to have faith without experiencing His power. So when His presence was gone...we would revert to our old ways.

God knows what He is doing...and this is far beyond human logic.


If you look at Revelation you see...

Rev. 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

There is coming a time when going in and out will will have had it's purpose....then we shall remain always IN the Lord.

 

[bbyrd009]

Once we are in Christ, I dont see why Christ would want is to "go out" of Him and then come back in over and again. Wouldn't He want us to simply remain in Him? "Remain in me, and I will remain in you" John 15:4

well, if we are being called to remain there that infers that not remaining is quite possible I guess right

 

[Nancy]

This is a specific sin though. Not every sin is a sin leading to death.



Episkopos' interpretation of John 10:9 is unique. However, after considering it, I've found the idea of going in and out to be flawed. Once we are in Christ, I dont see why Christ would want is to "go out" of Him and then come back in over and again. Wouldn't He want us to simply remain in Him? "Remain in me, and I will remain in you" John 15:4

I agree. God is not in a swivel chair. We are abiding or we are not. It is finished and we are a grateful and forgiven people. He knows His own and His own know Him. We are NOT perfect but, we are becoming closer in His Spirit...if we indeed are His. Sin will not fit the true follower of Christ and if one thinks they have licence to sin then, IMHO-how can they truly be saved? Wheres the fruit?
In His Name!
nancy ♥

 

[bbyrd009]

This is a specific sin though. Not every sin is a sin leading to death.

I wouldn't be too sure, any sin we contemplate doing first and then do might meet that description?

 

[bbyrd009]

I agree. God is not in a swivel chair. We are abiding or we are not. It is finished and we are a grateful and forgiven people. He knows His own and His own know Him. We are NOT perfect but, we are becoming closer in His Spirit...if we indeed are His. Sin will not fit the true follower of Christ and if one thinks they have licence to sin then, IMHO-how can they truly be saved? Wheres the fruit?
In His Name!
nancy ♥

however note that those who teach that we do not have to keep the law will also agree with you there, see, so we obv still have a disconnect?

 

[bbyrd009]

Well I dunno about "any" there, but fwiw I am the guy who builds those protocols (for unbiased sampling) for accurate algorithms, the hardest part of the job imo. If you get "none" as a return for "any" imo that would be significant even if biased tho.

@CoreIssue
So iow who among believers holds a definition of "saved" that is not "going to heaven after I have literally died?" Even when you ignore those less than 3years old?

 

[Waiting on him]

People have to figure this out. Either Jesus has sin in Him...meaning we can abide IN Christ and still sin...OR In Him is NO sin and we are safe there as a refuge from the things of this world which are of sin.

But you can't have it both ways to the advantage of the flesh. If we sin it is because we are walking in our own strength...which just failed us. The solution is to go back to live IN Christ.

It sounds like your saying that you don’t sin.

 

[Episkopos]

It sounds like your saying that you don’t sin.

I have gone long periods without sin. But I am never out of the reach of sin of myself. It depends where I am living from. If I live from Christ...then I walk as He walked. If I am not walking by the power of His Spirit then I am as any other man.

Jesus Christ is to me as hair length was to Samson. In Christ I walk heroically...as He did...because it is His strength I am walking in. This is called "being under grace."

When we love Jesus and want to serve Him but still sin because we are too weak to overcome sin...then we are "under the law."

How do we come "under grace"???? Go to Jesus and go to the throne room of God to get the grace you need. Get the oil for your lamp....and not just be a wannabe....but an actual follower of Christ.


Romans 2:12, "All who sin apart from the law will perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."

The real law that deals death is the law of sin and death.

 

[bbyrd009]

I have gone long periods without sin

lol, ok. So you say anyway. Not saying I know, but we eat, and wipe your mouth, and say you have done nothing wrong too, so no offense if I suggest you are deceived I hope. Generally speaking I guess the more one denies it, the truer it prolly is

 

[Helen]

lol, ok. So you say anyway. Not saying I know, but we eat, and wipe your mouth, and say you have done nothing wrong too, so no offense if I suggest you are deceived I hope

It all depends on where we ‘see’ our sin....ie upon ourselves , or upon Him.

If He says that He took it, are we to stand there and declare that we still have it!!!

 

[Episkopos]

lol, ok. So you say anyway. Not saying I know, but we eat, and wipe your mouth, and say you have done nothing wrong too, so no offense if I suggest you are deceived I hope. Generally speaking I guess the more one denies it, the truer it prolly is

Jesus Christ is an offense to mankind. Not just in Himself...but also as He lives through people. So then people deny Christ in others. But it is still a denial of Christ Himself. Inasmuch as you did this to these you did it to Me.

The scandal is that other people have Christ in them...and are no longer tainted by sin. This causes jealousy and murder and hatred in the corrupt heart of these (think Cain and Abel). It has always been this way.

So then God is raising up a people...very few in number...but accumulating throughout history....who walk in victory having neither spot nor wrinkle of sin in them. These have been purged and purified 7 times.

Now the church should embrace these and learn what makes them tick. But rather these are ridiculed and treated as any person with a delusion...not discerning the difference....but rather judging from their sin-tainted 3 pound brains.