Living in Sin or just roommates who love each other?

[Ferris Bueller]

Hi Ferris, my ex was an adulterer, and despite me not wanting to even have a relationship with anyone else, I have had this biblical principle thrown at me on this forum.
Sorry I couldn’t get your post to guote ,it’s in ref to post 28

So you know first hand why God allows divorce in the case of adultery.
It doesn't have to, but adultery is pretty effective at ending a relationship, isn't it?
Divorce is just settling what has already happened in the relationship and that's why God allows it in cases of adultery.

 

[Rita]

So you know first hand why God allows divorce in the case of adultery.
It doesn't have to, but adultery is pretty effective at ending a relationship, isn't it?
Divorce is just settling what has already happened in the relationship and that's why God allows it in cases of adultery.

It totally destroys trust and changes the whole relationship…..but some can and do work through it and remain together.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Not that anybody pays attention to John 7:24.

“Do not judge by the outward appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

I suppose they don't (less mature believers, anyway).
I guess that's why God tells us to not create appearances that solicit the inaccurate judgements of immature believers. Because they surely are going to judge what it looks like we're doing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

…..but some can and do work through it and remain together.

I think that's entirely possible.
As long as the offender takes complete and total responsibility for their actions and they are truly sorry for what they did.
Without that I don't see how a marriage could be reconciled if they chose to try to do that.
Forgiving the offender, all by itself, does not repair a relationship. Reconciliation does. And that requires the two parties to be in agreement. Forgiveness is a singular thing and only requires the offended person to do that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

what if two men shared same house separate rooms no gay sex no nothing just paying each others part of the bills. yet friends

Well, it used to mean nothing. But not today, of course.
But I'm to the point now I don't really give a crap.
Just look at Jewish history. You'll see that God gets to that point too sometimes.
He told Jeremiah to not pray for his people anymore because he would not listen. Judgment was inevitable and could not be turned back.

And, frankly, that's where I'm at with the scenario in the OP.
I don't care anymore.
Call me pessimistic, but I don't believe western society is redeemable.
When people forget how to blush concerning sin and parade it openly and defiantly, there's nothing left but to reap what they've sown.

 

[Rita]

I think that's entirely possible.
As long as the offender takes complete and total responsibility for their actions and they are truly sorry for what they did.
Without that I don't see how a marriage could be reconciled if they chose to try to do that.
Forgiving the offender, all by itself, does not repair a relationship. Reconciliation does. And that requires the two parties to be in agreement. Forgiveness is a singular thing and only requires the offended person to do that.

Yes, totally agree. I forgave my husband for what I thought was his first affair, he knew it wasn’t and continued to share our marriage with others. Sadly he still made excuses when I spoke to him after his cancer diagnosis. He was sorry, but not really remorseful.

 

[Lambano]

So you know first hand why God allows divorce in the case of adultery.
It doesn't have to, but adultery is pretty effective at ending a relationship, isn't it?
Divorce is just settling what has already happened in the relationship and that's why God allows it in cases of adultery.

I would expand that to include the three A’s: Abuse, Addiction, and Adultery.

 

[Lambano]

I suppose they don't (less mature believers, anyway).
I guess that's why God tells us to not create appearances that solicit the inaccurate judgements of immature believers. Because they surely are going to judge what it looks like we're doing.

And that’s why more mature believers have a responsibility to help their immature brothers and sisters grow up.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This subject may come up when Jesus and I have that discussion about the moral choices I’ve made in this life. When we got married, my wife had two kids, scars on her body from where her ex kicked her and threw her into walls, and scars on her soul from being told repeatedly how worthless she was. Our pastor (who always took Jesus’s words seriously) had no issue with us getting married, but if it was a sin, it’s just one more for which I need forgiveness. (And Jesus might bring up my penchant for self-justification too. But I hear He’s gracious, and I’m more than willing to extend that grace to others.) My point being that there are other reasons for divorce that Jesus might consider legitimate that aren’t in the Bible.

I have come to the conclusion that in these circumstances the abused wife should separate herself from the abuse, not get a divorce. The abuser will probably initiate the divorce themselves eventually in that case, or commit adultery. So I think the abused spouse could end the abuse without resorting to an unauthorized divorce.

Hey, but don't get me wrong. I don't have an ounce of judgment against the person who divorces an abusive spouse on those grounds alone and remarries. We each have our own relationship with God, and the matter is between them and God to sort out.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And that’s why more mature believers need to help their immature brothers and sisters grow up.

Romans 14 is a good teacher for both sides of the argument, but I think our own personal experiences is what drives home the truth of Romans 14 for both sides involved. I remember it being one of the most profound revelations of scripture in my growing up days as a Christian. I realized what I thought was my strength as a Christian was actually my weakness! But at the same time I realized my new found freedom carried the responsibility of not provoking weaker Christians, who have less knowledge, to sin.

And so it is with the OP. They may very well have genuine knowledge that what they are doing is not sin, but they have to take the responsibility to not be a stumbling block to less mature Christians. And so I say, JUST GET MARRIED, for corn's sake, lol. And play Monopoly 'till 2 in the morning if you want to your hearts content with a clear conscience.

 

[Grailhunter]

I suppose they don't (less mature believers, anyway).
I guess that's why God tells us to not create appearances that solicit the inaccurate judgements of immature believers. Because they surely are going to judge what it looks like we're doing.

A stab at humor....
Appearances.....you have a concern.....about what people think?
Christ could not be concerned about such things...."The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’" Can you imagine the gossiping that would occur if a church congregation went down to a local bar and bought a round and sat and talked to them about Christ and invited them to church....or invited them to a church picnic that included beer. I am thinking Christ would smile, but they would be the talk of the town.

Toasting Christ on the Lord's day...might want to look into that.

Appearances....My concern about appearances is the sin it causes for others that incorrectly judge. Is it a sin to incorrectly judge others and then a sin to gossip about it. Bob and Tina have been "shacking up" for ten years. Part of their church sit in a corner of the church...."Bob and Tina are living in sin." Says John. "Yes I know, their souls be damned!" Says Sally. "And their children were born in sin, born out of wedlock!" Says Peter. "Will their children go to hell as well?" Says Carol.

So Bob and Tina hear about this and are offended and stop going to church and turn away from the Lord. And in fact they go to hell, but not because they were together, but because of the gossip. "but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it is better for him that a heavy millstone be hung around his neck, and that he be drowned in the depths of the sea."

Nowhere in the Bible...Old or New Testament is there a requirement for a wedding or vows to be married. Who is going to be held accountable for their souls....the sin of judging....the sin of gossiping....the sin of causing someone to fall away from Christianity and go to hell.

Appearances are important....because you would not want to cause people to go to hell because they are stupid!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...or invited them to a church picnic that included beer. I am thinking Christ would smile...

No, absolutely not.
Not in this society.
I've been down this road.
Do yourself a favor. Keep your alcohol consumption a secret and don't be arrogant about it. Leave the open alcohol consumption for the lost themselves to stumble over.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Can you imagine the gossiping that would occur if a church congregation went down to a local bar and bought a round and sat and talked to them about Christ and invited them to church...

Depends if they drank with them.
In our society, I wouldn't set foot in a church that went to bars to drink and evangelize.
At this point, I'm tired of the church playing games with the world.
Because of it, the church is full of uncommitted, weak and fake believers with whom devout, dedicated believers have nothing in common with.
Totally worthless for spiritual comfort, compassion, and edification.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Appearances....My concern about appearances is the sin it causes for others that incorrectly judge. Is it a sin to incorrectly judge others and then a sin to gossip about it. Bob and Tina have been "shacking up" for ten years. Part of their church sit in a corner of the church...."Bob and Tina are living in sin." Says John. "Yes I know, their souls be damned!" Says Sally. "And their children were born in sin, born out of wedlock!" Says Peter. "Will their children go to hell as well?" Says Carol.

So Bob and Tina hear about this and are offended and stop going to church and turn away from the Lord. And in fact they go to hell, but not because they were together, but because of the gossip. "but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it is better for him that a heavy millstone be hung around his neck, and that he be drowned in the depths of the sea."

If Bob and Tina really 'believed in Me (Jesus)' your theoretical situation would not exist. At least not for long.
I don't worry about unbelievers being offended at the truth of God. (But I do worry about being offensive in how I deliver the truth).
Narcissists have us trained that it's wrong to offend offenders.
Not me, pal. Not me. Not anymore.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Nowhere in the Bible...Old or New Testament is there a requirement for a wedding or vows to be married. Who is going to be held accountable for their souls....the sin of judging....the sin of gossiping....the sin of causing someone to fall away from Christianity and go to hell.

It's okay to 'judge' the wrong that unmarried people commit.

As far as the vows, I have yet to see a couple who said they are married and don't need the paperwork who have stayed together. It's a joke. They don't realize the paperwork is proof that they are really committed to each other in a marital kind of relationship. I mean, if it's really true, they would have no fear of the binds of an official legal declaration of that commitment. But as it is, time shows most of those kinds of 'marriages' don't really have the marital commitment they say they have.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Appearances are important....because you would not want to cause people to go to hell because they are stupid!

That is right.
Less mature converts lack knowledge.
That is in fact what Romans 14 says.
Don't be the stumbling block through which their lack of knowledge causes them to not remain in the faith.

 

[Grailhunter]

Depends if they drank with them.
In our society, I wouldn't set foot in a church that went to bars to drink and evangelize.
At this point, I'm tired of the church playing games with the world.
Because of it, the church is full of uncommitted, weak and fake believers with whom devout, dedicated believers have nothing in common with.
Totally worthless for spiritual comfort, compassion, and edification.

Setting yourself above Christ? Was Christ a sinner?
Do not let anyone judge you on what you eat or drink.
How do you win at chess? You have to know the rules.
A lot of Christians that do not know the rules or the Spirit of Christ or Christianity.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes, totally agree. I forgave my husband for what I thought was his first affair, he knew it wasn’t and continued to share our marriage with others. Sadly he still made excuses when I spoke to him after his cancer diagnosis. He was sorry, but not really remorseful.

I feel uncomfortable 'liking' this post....but you know what I mean, right?

You illustrate well the problem of narcissism in marriage.
I've learned that the inability to take responsibility for your behavior is the sure sign you're dealing with a narcissist. I mean, we all have narcissistic traits in some way or another. Born that way right from the beginning. But a clinical narcissist is marked by the fact that they will not take responsibility or be truly sorry for their behavior without blaming someone or something else. That is the one sure sign you are dealing with a narcissist, not just someone who has narcissistic traits common to mankind. The trait of serial adultery stems from the impulsivity of the narcissist. And from the narcissistic fantasy element of clinical narcissism.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Setting yourself above Christ? Was Christ a sinner?

Christ lived in a society where a mild alcoholic drink was as much a part of the evening meal as a glass of milk or soda is in ours.

 

[Grailhunter]

It's okay to 'judge' the wrong that unmarried people commit.

There can be no wrong. Hands down what you are concerned about is not biblical. Judging people by your own rules.
Most of the people that had wedding and vows in the biblical era were Pagans. That was their custom. Eventually the Jews and Christians adopted their customs. That is why there are so many Pagan rituals imbedded in Christian weddings.

The first documented Christian wedding occurred in the 9th century.
The Catholic Church made marriage a sacrament in the 12th century but still did not require a wedding or vows.
The Protestants made weddings and vows a requirement in the 16th century and the Catholic Church followed suite shortly after.
Church rules, that is fine, still not biblical so it is not a sin. But I support the Church's decision on weddings just not the judging.
So people that couple up are married without a wedding, just like they did in the biblical era. No wrong committed.