Living in Sin or just roommates who love each other?

[Truth7t7]

I do see the point you have raised, but my response was really in line with the quote from Ferris about outsiders ‘ presuming they were having sex ‘ ….judging what you don’t actually have proof of is not right either.

Fact is one roommate was divorced, and it's assumed the spouse lives

Scripture teaches till death do they part, cant be living and in love with another while the spouse lives, it's that simple

 

[Rita]

Fact is one roommate was divorced, and it's assumed the spouse lives

Scripture teaches till death do they part, cant be living and in love with another while the spouse lives, it's that simple

Then again the word ‘ it’s assumed ‘….
I said I understood the point you were making.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Cant be divorced while a spouse lives, and be living with and in love with another person

Depends on the circumstances of the divorce.
I know marriage can be tough, but it does seem few divorces of people in the church these days are on Biblical grounds.

I just think the people in the OP should not play games and just get married. End of problem. I mean, if they really are in love as claimed...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...the septuagenarian man...

You have used a big word that many would have not idea what it means.

I thought he was talking about a man who likes to read the Greek version of the Old Testament.

 

[Rita]

Depends on the circumstances of the divorce.
I know marriage can be tough, but it does seem few divorces of people in the church these days are on Biblical grounds.

I just think the people in the OP should not play games and just get married. End of problem. I mean, if they really are in love as claimed...

Ok , playing devils advocate here…..just say the spouse is alive and they did get married, would that not equally create grey areas with regards to the signals it would give to weaker Christians.
Instead of people looking in saying ‘ look at them living in sin’ …they would be saying ‘ look at them, and you know he/ she’s a divorcee ‘
Sorry I just have this mental image of two gossips at church sitting together having a quiet chat as they observe others ……
On a serious note, it’s a valid point that we often don’t consider the people that are observing us when we make decisions and choices in life and the signals it can give xx

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ok , playing devils advocate here…..just say the spouse is alive and they did get married, would that not equally create grey areas with regards to the signals it would give to weaker Christians.
Instead of people looking in saying ‘ look at them living in sin’ …they would be saying ‘ look at them, and you know he/ she’s a divorcee ‘
Sorry I just have this mental image of two gossips at church sitting together having a quiet chat as they observe others ……
On a serious note, it’s a valid point that we often don’t consider the people that are observing us when we make decisions and choices in life and the signals it can give xx

If I was divorced, I personally would not feel any obligation to prove to people that I was legitimately divorced, except if the issue came up within the church, or I knew it would come up. I know from two separate experiences just a few years apart in a church I was attending years ago that a lack of information leaves people to speculate and is the formula for strife and division. Some things just can't be 'no one else's business' in the church all the time. In the case of an elder or church leader it can never be a case of 'it's no one else's business'. That's just the necessary reality of being a church leader.

 

[Truth7t7]

Ok , playing devils advocate here…..just say the spouse is alive and they did get married, would that not equally create grey areas with regards to the signals it would give to weaker Christians.
Instead of people looking in saying ‘ look at them living in sin’ …they would be saying ‘ look at them, and you know he/ she’s a divorcee ‘
Sorry I just have this mental image of two gossips at church sitting together having a quiet chat as they observe others ……
On a serious note, it’s a valid point that we often don’t consider the people that are observing us when we make decisions and choices in life and the signals it can give xx

Biblical fact is, if a person divorces and remarries while their spouse lives, this is adultery

Mark 10:11-12KJV
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Biblical fact is, if a person divorces and remarries while their spouse lives, this is adultery

Unless the person you're divorcing has already committed adultery and that's the reason you are divorcing.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Two seniors in their 70's one widowed one divorced love each other. They decide to move in together. They have no desire to get married this late in life. They have separate bedrooms, no sexual relations, no joint bank accounts but truly love each other and for the most part are viewed as in a relationship.

Are they living in sin?

People already know that some will probably say there's nothing sinful about this and others will claim there is, that's because we're all born with inherited sin and tend to go by our own thinking even though we probably think we're being influenced and guided by God's Holy Spirit.
The thing is we as christians are to put the love of the True God first in our lives. If we deliberately put ourselves in a situation like this that means those who say this kind of situation is sinful will look at you, who say you're christians, and see you as hypocrites when you speak of anything concerning the truth about God and his Christ and the Christian way. God doesn't won't anyone to be destroyed so he wants us living lives as best we can so that we will be people with a good reputation so that when we speak about God those we talk to will not look at us as hypocrites. I'm not talking about being perfect, none of us are, but we do have the ability to choose not to live with someone of the opposite sex when we're not married to such people. The question I pose, are they putting the love of God first when such people already know there will be those who will say this is sinful. Christians of the opposite sex don't have to live with each other to show love for each other. When you talk about someone who loves each other the way you're speaking of the other question that should be asked, why aren't they getting married?
People can make out that putting the preaching of God's kingdom isn't or shouldn't come first in a christians life, but they won't convince me of that. The love of True God and his kingdom should always come first in our lives. If we're christians and if we're living lives that cause God's kingdom and his word to be spoken against because of the way we're living then I honestly don't believe we're putting the love of the True God first in our lives, which should be the first and foremost love.

 

[Rita]

Biblical fact is, if a person divorces and remarries while their spouse lives, this is adultery

Mark 10:11-12KJV
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

You are missing the point of what I was relaying. I WAS NOT questioning this part of your thread, I was questioning the assumptions made about the people that were being weighed up. You assumed things, which is wrong as well x

 

[Rita]

Hi Ferris, my ex was an adulterer, and despite me not wanting to even have a relationship with anyone else, I have had this biblical principle thrown at me on this forum.
Sorry I couldn’t get your post to guote ,it’s in ref to post 28

 

[Grailhunter]

Two seniors in their 70's one widowed one divorced love each other. They decide to move in together. They have no desire to get married this late in life. They have separate bedrooms, no sexual relations, no joint bank accounts but truly love each other and for the most part are viewed as in a relationship.

Are they living in sin?

I do not know anyone in this situation but I'm fairly certain some are. My underlying question what exactly is living in sin? Is it a sexual relationship that makes the difference? Would we look at it differently if the two were 30 years old?

The answer is no. It does not matter if they are 30 or 70.
Hypothetical but keep in mind that the Bible, Old or New Testament does not have a requirement for weddings or vows. That requirement is made by the Protestants denomination in the 16th century so that means a lot of marriages without weddings. If they do have sex they are married. So there is no sin in this scenario. Someone to be with and love and be loved at 70, I would say that is a blessing.

But just like everyone else the issue is if they separate. The discussion in the Gospels where Christ, a Jew, is talking to Jews, about the Mosaic Law concerning divorce, does not apply to Christians and the word divorce does not appear outside the Gospels. Some Bible translations put it there, but it is not in the actual scriptures. Christianity did not use the "Letter of Divorcement" and there is no courts to litigate those that separated.

Now Paul does address some of this in 1st Corinthians chapter 7, along with His view of virginity and circumcision and the end of time close at hand..."time has been shorted." And then He says that the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believing spouse, which is really something. But still does not mention the word divorce, instead the word release or loose is used. And of course recommends reconciliation. But then along with Romans 7:1-3 that says a wife cannot remarry. Either way married people are suppose to stay married. But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife is not to leave her husband 11 (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband is not to leave his wife.

This opens up another discussion, but for the fundamentalists and others, this is it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Fact is one roommate was divorced, and it's assumed the spouse lives

Scripture teaches till death do they part, cant be living and in love with another while the spouse lives, it's that simple

Death do you part....gun cleaning accident? LOL

 

[Lambano]

You have used a big word that many would have not idea what it means. You could have simply said, "Though a 70 - 79 year old man would probably . . . ," and at the same time insulted any man who is 80 years old or older. LOL

Had Tex set up the initial condition that the couple was in their 60s, they’d be sexagenarians. Then people would really talk.

 

[Lambano]

Hi Ferris, my ex was an adulterer, and despite me not wanting to even have a relationship with anyone else, I have had this biblical principle thrown at me on this forum.
Sorry I couldn’t get your post to guote ,it’s in ref to post 28

This subject may come up when Jesus and I have that discussion about the moral choices I’ve made in this life. When we got married, my wife had two kids, scars on her body from where her ex kicked her and threw her into walls, and scars on her soul from being told repeatedly how worthless she was. Our pastor (who always took Jesus’s words seriously) had no issue with us getting married, but if it was a sin, it’s just one more for which I need forgiveness. (And Jesus might bring up my penchant for self-justification too. But I hear He’s gracious, and I’m more than willing to extend that grace to others.) My point being that there are other reasons for divorce that Jesus might consider legitimate that aren’t in the Bible.

Rita, I’m sorry your ex was a jerk (my Y chromosome blushes at some of things we men do that hurt women), and I’m sorry Jesus’s people throw stuff like that in your face.

 

[Ezra]

Two seniors in their 70's one widowed one divorced love each other. They decide to move in together. They have no desire to get married this late in life. They have separate bedrooms, no sexual relations, no joint bank accounts but truly love each other and for the most part are viewed as in a relationship.

Are they living in sin?

NO

 

[Ezra]

A couple living together without actually being married is sin. It doesn't matter how anyone tries to rationalize it or justify it. It's especially true if one of them is divorced. Christ literally said whoever divorces someone and enters a relationship with someone else is committing adultery. So sin is being committed both in the letter and the spirit.

YOU HAVE SCRIPTURE BACK THIS ? what if two men shared same house separate rooms no gay sex no nothing just paying each others part of the bills. yet friends

 

[Lambano]

Would God not be their witness and would people ‘ presuming ‘ and jumping to conclusions be sinning in judging without any proof.

Not that anybody pays attention to John 7:24.

“Do not judge by the outward appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

 

[Rita]

This subject may come up when Jesus and I have that discussion about the moral choices I’ve made in this life. When we got married, my wife had two kids, scars on her body from where her ex kicked her and threw her into walls, and scars on her soul from being told repeatedly how worthless she was. Our pastor (who always took Jesus’s words seriously) had no issue with us getting married, but if it was a sin, it’s just one more for which I need forgiveness. (And Jesus might bring up my penchant for self-justification too. But I hear He’s gracious, and I’m more than willing to extend that grace to others.) My point being that there are other reasons for divorce that Jesus might consider legitimate that aren’t in the Bible.

Rita, I’m sorry your ex was a jerk (my Y chromosome blushes at some of things we men do that hurt women), and I’m sorry Jesus’s people throw stuff like that in your face.

I hope your wife has healed from the internal and external scars xx
I think I will say an amen to your words xx
No need to apologise, I forgave my ex and we remained friends until he died of cancer two years next month.
I had one Christian friend who said to my face ‘ I don’t know how you can live with yourself, I would never divorce my husband ‘ at the time I was so broken inside. Thankfully a few years later I talked it all through with her and she apologised.

 

[Lambano]

I hope your wife has healed from the internal and external scars xx

Thank you, Rita. Time and love are good healers. But there’s a reason she carries a Glock 48; she’s not going to let men victimize her again.

In regard to your friend, all I can say is, “Ouch”. (Or as a friend would say, “Oy, vey!”, with a smack to the forehead for emphasis.)