Luke 16 the rich man in hell lift up his eyes in torment

[Enoch111]

I must have missed the part of that parable where it addressed one or the other of those men on that concern.

That was not a part of that parable, therefore you must take all Scriptures into account, starting at Genesis 15.

 

[aspen]

BTW, please FULLY quote what I wrote.... not just a part of my reply to try and make it appear I said a different thing.

Your “reply” is not just “different”, it’s wrong!!

 

[Davy]

What is it with people not using scripture? At least farouk gave ONE scripture that makes him arrive at his conclusion. Some of you guys just pop in, say a bunch of stuff, and don't even remotely refer us to scripture. That's like...recommending yourself and your own opinions. You don't have to post a wall of scripture bigger than the wall President Trump wants to build, but at least let us follow your work.

Which scriptures make you arrive at your conclusions??

Its like taking a math test and not showing your work.

You don't have to quote chapter and verse even. I mean most of us will be able to guess what vss you intend if you even just refer to it in a loose paraphrase.

I guess your rant can't mean much, since you failed to address any specific person.

 

[Davy]

Very important what you stated Enoch111 and exactly biblical. It is disturbing to me when people try to down play hell so then people think they will get a second chance after death, or that it will not be that bad. --But the Bible says it is eternal TORMENT.
I'd like to know if there is any who disagree with your post & why?

But you're speaking of the future "lake of fire", not hades where the rich man was in torment.

Luke 16:22-23
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
KJV

The Greek word for "torments" is basanos, and means a touchstone (Strong's no.931).

A touchstone was a type of stone used to measure the amount of gold content a piece of ore had in it. You'd strike the gold ore on the touchstone. The idea of the rich man's torments is that he didn't measure up.

 

[Ezra]

First of all, thank you for starting this thread. I'm very interested in it.

Second, thanks for referencing at least one scripture!

lol it appears i stirred a hornets nest up .. you all play for blood lol the other forum is getting stiff necked there debating on if it was good friday or thursday .the site owner made the statement it was very dangerous to use the bible only... i called his hand kicked over the golden cow

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What did the "Rich Man" do that he deserved "Hell?" And what did "Lazarus" do that earned him "Heaven?"

We aren't privy to that information, come to think of it....is it somehow evil to be rich...? Solomon was rich...king David was rich. Moses was rich.

Good point Willie...! It further drives home and adds to my point that you shouldn't be using this parable as defense for eternal torture. That is missing the point of the parable, imo.

I'm not saying you should not have the view that beings will be eternally tortured, but if you are going to insist that a certain parable is actually a true life story while other parables are not, based solely on names being given, then you want to at least know the time/period the true story takes place in, and - well, I'm not going to repeat my post regarding that.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I guess your rant can't mean much, since you failed to address any specific person.

LOL

 

[tzcho2]

Where was David mentioned in that parable?

You know what I'm referring to.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Harvest1874 is a Jehovah's Witness. And the JWs reject the doctrine of Hell.

Says you, Harvest1874 in NOT a Jehovah's Witness, he's a Bible Student, something which he has tried on various occasions to explain, and yet it still goes over the heads of most.

Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses are not the same thing. Just because we share some of the same beliefs does not mean we are one in the same no more than the fact that Catholics and Baptist share some similar beliefs makes them one in the same.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Hell is NOT the grave. The word "Sheol" in the OT should have simply been transliterated. Instead the KJV translators used the word "grave" and thereby created some serious problems. There are no souls and spirits six feet under.

Sheol/Hades is the abode of the unrighteous souls and spirits. Their bodies go into the grave, but their souls and spirits go to Sheol/Hades (which is in the heart of the earth, or the lower parts of the earth).

Hell (Gehenna) is the true Hell -- the Lake of Fire. It is located in "outer darkness" (presumably outside space). It will begin to be occupied when the Antichrist and the False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire, followed shortly by Satan and his evil angels, and after that the ones who are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life.

More false teaching from the professing church, the church nominal.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Gotcha, wondering why he called those who agree with John Ankerberg & Dave Hunt cult followers. I think it's time to post me some videos....lol!

You can post all the propaganda videos you like, our friend CoreIssue has already posted several I believe. Same old same old propaganda pieces posted over and over again by the ignorant in the nominal church in order to discredit the truth and slander its exponents.

 

[Helen]

You know what I'm referring to.

Jesus plucked the ears of corn when He was hungry, .."they" condemned Him for not 'keeping the law' of keeping the Sabbath holy.

Jesus saw beyond the letter of the law -" The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."

David saw beyond the law... when hungry, he went into the Holy Place and took the shew bread for his troops because they were hungry.

Many today would still put the binders of the law upon God's people..they can see no further than just the letter of the law.

 

[Harvest 1874]

What did the "Rich Man" do that he deserved "Hell?" And what did "Lazarus" do that earned him "Heaven?"

Precisely what we discussed in our blog post on the subject, The Rich Man and Lazarus

 

[tzcho2]

You can post all the propaganda videos you like, our friend CoreIssue has already posted several I believe. Same old same old propaganda pieces posted over and over again by the ignorant in the nominal church in order to discredit the truth and slander its exponents.

JW's is a cult my friend. It teaches outside of the Bible so , please don't call those who post Bible only as propaganda. That really doesn't fly.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Since Lazarus went to Abraham's Bosom, he must have done exactly what Abraham did -- Abraham believed God and it was imputed (counted) to him for righteousness. And what Abraham did is what every believer does. See Romans 4. We can only be justified by grace through faith. See Hebrews 11.

"He must have done...?"

Where precisely in the text does it say that the poor man Lazarus was a believer? The Scriptures are quite adamant that without faith it is impossible to please God, that there is only one name given under the heavens whereby we may be saved. I fail to see anywhere in the parable where it states that the poor man had faith and that he was a believer in Christ, for that matter nothing is said about whether or not the rich man was a believer either.

You are simply adding your own interpretation to the parable in the vain attempt to support your own theory and/ or beliefs. Sorry but that's not acceptable evidence for any true student of the word to go by.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

People don't have reading comprehension any more...

 

[Helen]

People don't have reading comprehension any more...

Being an English war baby , Im not sure that I ever did !!

Our poor teachers were all shell shocked after coming home from serving...our 'education' was a mockery...

 

[Harvest 1874]

I don't know, but it is the only one of Jesus' parables that there is a name. Lazarus. It is why I believe this one may be more then just imagery. That it really happened.

We believe the Lord specifically mentioned a name for the poor man in order to draw attention to a particular point which he hoped would later resonate in the minds of the Pharisees when he resuscitated Lazarus (that is the real Lazarus). See Part 2 of our blog post on The Rich Man and Lazarus near the bottom.

 

[Harvest 1874]

JW's is a cult my friend. It teaches outside of the Bible so , please don't call those who post Bible only as propaganda. That really doesn't fly.

Sorry but I don't speak for JW's and their beliefs, as I am not a JW they can speak for themselves.

As I stated, I myself am a Bible Student and although we share some similar beliefs with the JW's, we still are not one in the same despite what any of ignorant on this forum might say. JW's consider Bible Students to be apostates, basically the same as they do most of the professing church. Nevertheless like all the other branches of Babylon they do have their bits and pieces of truth.

The Adversary needs these in order to make the errors taught in these systems more palatable, fortunately waking people are beginning to see theses errors for what they truly are, the "doctrines of men and of devils" and as such are vomiting them out. (Isa 28:8)

 

[Willie T]

"He must have done...?"

Where precisely in the text does it say that the poor man Lazarus was a believer? The Scriptures are quite adamant that without faith it is impossible to please God, that there is only one name given under the heavens whereby we may be saved. I fail to see anywhere in the parable where it states that the poor man had faith and that he was a believer in Christ, for that matter nothing is said about whether or not the rich man was a believer either.

You are simply adding your own interpretation to the parable in the vain attempt to support your own theory and/ or beliefs. Sorry but that's not acceptable evidence for any true student of the word to go by.

You are a wise man to know that we are walking awfully close to danger when we try to read words into the Bible that were never written there.