LUKE 3:16 BAPTISM OF FIRE

[bbyrd009]

I first got the idea that all men will be held accountable, I guess...from a future time when a light so bright will hit every man that nothing will be hidden. Even unbelievers have a shared dream of being in a huge gathering of people, up on a stage in a spotlight, to find in the dream that they are completely naked, with everyone looking on their nakedness

ok just observations here, you "got an idea from a future time," hmm, and also wadr that dream is always a dream, right, no one has ever actually had that come true for them yet, correct? I bring that up see Bc "everyone, deep in their hearts, is waiting for the world to end," too i guess right. Iow we all share some common beliefs that never seem to manifest.

Not the pleasantest vision so early, but what comes to mind is an adult who has say broke into their diaper and smearing poop on the walls, see light it up bright as you want they don't care, they aren't looking for a tree to hide behind at all right, they are sitting there smiling at you and the light brite right

As for the rest of your post, I think no one will be be expected to make an account for what they don't have, but for whatever they do have and were given.

ok, but now seems like we're sort of dancing around and maybe avoiding the actual "age of accountability" that near as i can tell one might attain, yes, but i don't see it being called mando or inevitable or anything, at least in that passage?

I don't have it all figured out, but I do know that the very ones who have been given more will have a greater accounting, not less as they seem to think.

ah well so you say, might be true, but i already got visions popping up of like privileged white kids getting off of some crime for being privileged, so i dunno about that know either k. Also little kids who have been like spoiled rotten, literally given everything, might hate their guts but they get this weird pass dealy too huh, it's the parents we slit our eyes at then? Weird, huh?

Course i understand you meant that differently, like those who are given more...what? Exactly? Would the term "intelligence" be what we're looking for here? Weird how this stuff loops back around on ya huh? This wasn't intentional btw, i'm basically experiencing the same cognitive dissonance you are right now ok!

 

[bbyrd009]

What makes you think I would not like the word from God. I love scripture...

Well, i didn't say "the word from God" there, see, it would be my "word," even though i would not be asking you to "take" my word but you would be hearing my "word," and then you could like search the Scriptures to see if it were true or not later see. We're like exploring the different definitions for "word" in here at the same time too i guess lol, but that is going to kind of be a point in here.


What is "word?" What does "word" mean? Promise? Words? What exactly? But this is the rhetorical part, the part up there might answer it if you'll respond to it. Maybe not too lol, dunno

What makes you think I would not like the word from God. I love scripture...

But to answer this another way sbg i could Quote Scripture and get you cursing me i guess, happens pretty regular. Scripture says you are God, too, right. Capital G even, that capital jazz is all English anyway. "Theos" is a pretty murky term after all right. Not saying you are El, but we have a bunch of xlations of "theos" as capital G God too ok

 

[bbyrd009]

He said: the word I have spoken to you.

Ok, so we get a clue that Word Is spoken, but i mean the point there is we can't exactly Quote which specific "Word" He is referring to there right? At least not easily, id have to go read to verify, but i think the word I have spoken to you there specifically cannot really be like Quoted, right? Brb

 

[bbyrd009]

And also: "you are already clean."

Howso? By their water baptism by John?

No. Jesus said, you are already clean...because of the word I have spoken to you.

Who is "you" there also, not that i would argue for the exclusivity of the "12" (13) apostles anyway

we have something else that goes 12 but really 13 too huh

 

[stunnedbygrace]

ok just observations here, you "got an idea from a future time," hmm, and also wadr that dream is always a dream, right, no one has ever actually had that come true for them yet, correct? I bring that up see Bc "everyone, deep in their hearts, is waiting for the world to end," too i guess right. Iow we all share some common beliefs that never seem to manifest.

An idea from a future time, yes, when nothing will be hidden, it will be impossible to hide it. As in how the apostle said some men's sins are evident to all and some, their sins will be seen on that future day.

But also, judgement begins with the house of God, and to me, that's now. Face it now, with Him.

Well...yeah, that dream is just a dream. Until it manifests.

Waiting for the world to end? No...what if that manifests years after I die? The time is now, but do I look forward to not ever having to see awful things again, for this to end, that I never again have to see someone ever abuse children or animals, or...men die in wars, or anyone's heads get chopped off, or an elderly woman get sucker punched on the street as some game a gang is playing? I mean, yeah, I look forward to not having to be on this broke down orb any more. I'd be lying if I said I didn't look forward to it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Not the pleasantest vision so early, but what comes to mind is an adult who has say broke into their diaper and smearing poop on the walls, see light it up bright as you want they don't care, they aren't looking for a tree to hide behind at all right, they are sitting there smiling at you and the light brite right

I don't think that will be the attitude of ANY man when that light hits him. Yeah, I think he WILL be looking for a tree to hide behind or begging the rocks to fall on him and kill him!

And of course, since you are Bbyrd, your next question will be, are you sure you won't be one of them, begging that?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

ok, but now seems like we're sort of dancing around and maybe avoiding the actual "age of accountability" that near as i can tell one might attain, yes, but i don't see it being called mando or inevitable or anything, at least in that passage?

I don't know, you think my statement was dancing around the age of accountability? Before a being is capable of telling right from wrong and choosing the right, he has not been given much yet. And when someone is born severely mentally disabled, they have not been given the "much" I was referring to. So I think it is covered in what I said. Is God merciless and unfair? He always judges correctly. I don't believe he holds anyone accountable for anything more than what they do with what He gives them.

 

[bbyrd009]

An idea from a future time, yes, when nothing will be hidden, it will be impossible to hide it. As in how the apostle said some men's sins are evident to all and some, their sins will be seen on that future day.

But also, judgement begins with the house of God, and to me, that's now. Face it now, with Him.

imo that's all the Apostle was saying, that the future comes today for some, tomorrow for others, etc?

Well...yeah, that dream is just a dream. Until it manifests.

you say "until" but have no evidence, right, so what's wrong with "unless?"

Waiting for the world to end? No...what if that manifests years after I die?

ha well again what if that never manifests--being as how it never has yet--and what if "when the world ends" is a completely diff thing Scripturally speaking, say maybe when you um "die?" Or even when you "leave the world?"

The time is now, but do I look forward to not ever having to see awful things again, for this to end,

"this?" What is "this?" You mention "having to see awful things" there, but really did you "see" them or just hear/read about them second-hand? Bc big diff imo.

So pls give an example of something "awful" you have "seen" if you would, so we can work with that instead of my impression of your impression lol

that I never again have to see someone ever abuse children or animals, or...men die in wars, or anyone's heads get chopped off, or an elderly woman get sucker punched on the street as some game a gang is playing? I mean, yeah, I look forward to not having to be on this broke down orb any more. I'd be lying if I said I didn't look forward to it.

um, hmm. Ok, i know, and i can still might get sucked into that myself, but...ok, make one of these that you have seen be your example then, if you like, and let's take a um "look" at what you have really "seen" ok.

See Bc when you start examining this stuff it's gonna melt just like Jesus' Word, kinda, not meaning to be argumentative here, i understand that we have to make assumptions even when we are making declarat...ah, ya, professsions and declarations lol...anyway, i did get the meaning of what you meant to say, but imo examine how "true" it really is see.

Describe the last time you personally witnessed an elderly lady getting sucker punched on the street, and we'll go from there maybe :)

 

[bbyrd009]

And you might be following up this am but as these usually are not followed up and i dunno when you'll get tired and quit, my point here is gonna be that "I look forward to not having to be on this broke down orb anymore" is really a way to say "I am firmly in the world, and I can't wait to die" wadr. I would even put it "I am lost," but i don't mean that like it gets read ok, Bc i am not talking about the loss of death, More Abundantly

Incidentally when is the last time you been barefoot on grass anyway, actually broke down on the orb yourself, reader? Not saying i don't understand and even empathize myself, but see Erets and Kosmou get like conflated here real easy, huh? "The world is very sexy, it's part of my collapse."

So see what we do is, imo, we love the world so much we don't even consider leaving it, right, we end up actually doubling down, going to Luby's instead, see, and we take that "leave the world" jazz, well, not literally for sure, huh? We just redefine "world" to suit our agenda, me too, And then we end up saying like "basic instructions before leaving earth" and we start Looking Up for a way off of "it" even, when we haven't really gone anywhere near the earth in like 50 years prolly lol, unless some cement was laid down on top of it first see.

So essentially "won't leave the world, and can't wait to leave the earth!?"
even though we left "earth" a long time ago i guess lol huh

 

[stunnedbygrace]

ha well again what if that never manifests--being as how it never has yet--and what if "when the world ends" is a completely diff thing Scripturally speaking, say maybe when you um "die?" Or even when you "leave the world?"

You mean...what if the world goes on forever and ever just as it is?

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't think that will be the attitude of ANY man when that light hits him. Yeah, I think he WILL be looking for a tree to hide behind or begging the rocks to fall on him and kill him!

you think the adult smearing their own poop on the wall is going to feel regret when The Man comes in and turns the light on, sbg?

And of course, since you are Bbyrd, your next question will be, are you sure you won't be one of them, begging that?

hmm. No, I was really just exploring the line there, the definition of "accountability" as we commonly understand it, and trying to point out that quite a few "men" are not even considered accountable by us, right. What Scripture means by "accountable" there i got theories but don't know.

And making you into one of those i'm not trying to do anyway, but we are currently not agreeing on whether they even exist, i guess? Iow you say i'll say "are you sure you won't be one of them, begging," but my premise is that they won't be begging anyway, right? Retarded ppl will not be begging or hiding behind a doctrine bc they are not accountable, right, we don't beat adults for breaking into their diapers and smearing their poop on the walls by the same principle, yeh?

 

[bbyrd009]

You mean...what if the world goes on forever and ever just as it is?

Ha well we are functioning under...varying defs of "world" here i guess ok, the world has changed like three times since i was a kid but the earth has kept on the same, so i have to infer earth there Bc it seems like that is what you mean.

Anyway, to answer your question directly, no i do not mean that Bc the world is "passing away" right, and we even know that the earth will be consumed when the sun goes red giant in a couple billion years, so yes i mean what if the earth goes on "forever and ever, just as it is," at least effectively Bc that is many, many eternities right, or let's say many hundreds of millions of years away prolly. Whereas the "world" will pass away long before then i guess, might be a bad guess though, i read ppl outside the city even then!

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't know, you think my statement was dancing around the age of accountability? Before a being is capable of telling right from wrong and choosing the right, he has not been given much yet. And when someone is born severely mentally disabled, they have not been given the "much" I was referring to. So I think it is covered in what I said. Is God merciless and unfair? He always judges correctly. I don't believe he holds anyone accountable for anything more than what they do with what He gives them.

So you do agree that not "all" will be held accountable or etc then

 

[amadeus]

Well how about the special ppl? Tbh wouldn't surprise me too much if more like almost no one is considered accountable lol, but i dunno there, let's consider those who...even we--as in everyone--give a pass to for right now first maybe. Generally speaking even the "simple" get a pass, yes?

And I'm kinda just now realizing duh little children are not accountable too are they, for basically the same reason? But as an aside, this is where i'm going, not where we're at yet. Now where the line is up there i don't know...ok well i do, someone could be quite ignorant and yet still have eaten from the tree of knowledge huh, you can tell by how they talk, "this is that and that is this" stuff alla time, so maybe "simple" is not quite the best current idiom, but obviously somewhere on the scale of what we define as "intelligence" we generally agree that someone who cannot defend themselves say, in a court of law even...ha which opens up another can i guess, but you get me here right, we have a, maybe each have an individual IQ standard that we hold others to as a "pass-fail" for "accountability?"

And wow i was riffing on this "accountability" thing the other day, i mentioned like "bookkeepping" and i think "wages" and kinda got challenged there but not really so i just kinda let it go, even though it sounded like wages to me...but anyway we even like seek to be considered accountable and adult and mature and stuff, huh?

So fwiw i honestly don't know, at "everyone accountable" ok, i'd be asking where you got that idea first.

Perhaps we are accountable to God to the extend that we can be. God alone really knows that extent and is alone able to render a fair any judgment based on that:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

If a person is really incapable of understanding or at least appears so to us, will God not render judgment also according what he has been given? Those gifted with talent or material riches or above average intelligence or more time or better opportunities will have all of those things factored in their judgments... The magnitude of such a judgment of every person gives us understanding as to why only God really is capable of rendering it fairly. And we really cannot even fairly draw an accountability line, can we?

Then what happens to those who are found incapable of accounting for themselves?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Wow, that Luke verse. Do you know, I never saw that part at the end. Just never noticed it. You could read it 2 ways you know...?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ha well, that amounts to another riddle right, what "word" was Jesus referring too iyo?

I've got like 50 posts from you to reply to. And I don't know how to multi quote, so each question you ask me in a longer post has to each go in a seperate post lol.

But He doesn't seem seperated to me. He and the written word are both needed. And if you ask me to explain that, I can't. I need the written word. But I can't really see that written word without the living Word in me...and the Lord is the Spirit. I don't think that will make much sense to a lot of people

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ok, so we get a clue that Word Is spoken, but i mean the point there is we can't exactly Quote which specific "Word" He is referring to there right? At least not easily, id have to go read to verify, but i think the word I have spoken to you there specifically cannot really be like Quoted, right? Brb

The word I have spoken to you is spirit and truth. The Lord is the Spirit. The Lord is the Word. You cannot understand the word unless you have the Word, who is the Lord, who is the Spirit. You cannot understand the spirit of the word unless you have the Spirit.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well, i didn't say "the word from God" there, see, it would be my "word," even though i would not be asking you to "take" my word but you would be hearing my "word," and then you could like search the Scriptures to see if it were true or not later see.

Do you mean your interpretation? Yes, I guess then it would be your word...But if you are speaking by the Spirit in you, I don't look at it as your word. But there are very few people who speak consistently by the Spirit in them. They are still carnal and giving their opinions and being ruled by their flesh.

It's the ones who sometimes surprise me that I will listen to. And when I catch them walking in the Spirit, when they are currently riding that wave, I just know it. And when it seems they aren't walking in the Spirit, even if they are currently just...following the Spirit, I will still listen to hear what they understood and brought back with them because...umm...it's a gift from God for us, isn't it?

It's as if...I am walking by the ocean. Another man is a bit in front of me, another is a bit behind me, some others are beside me. And then there is one, maybe two men, way further ahead. We are all following the Spirit. We've found each other.

So the waves are crashing, the wind is blowing pretty fierce, birds are squawcking ( it just occurs to me that I don't know how to to spell that word and apparently I've stumped spell check too) so there's a lot of background noise. The men who are ahead of us are yelling things over their shoulder to us that they've heard from where they are. I didn't hear any of it because the wind caught in my ear, but one of those real close in front of me had their head turned slightly different than me and the wind didn't catch in their ear, so they caught it. They even caught a little bit that the man they heard didn't catch, so when they tell me, they have that to add!

Meanwhile, a man behind us both, who we tell, hit a still pocket where there was for an instant a space between the crashing waves, no bird shrieking and an almost magical break in the wind. That man actually caught something in his hearing that none of the closer ones did because of that still pocket! So he adds it, maybe even just two words heard in that perfect stillness, and he adds it.

Suddenly, because we all shared what we heard, suddenly a lot of us are walking beside each other and not spread out as much. And, we are a little closer to the ones ahead of us. And we aren't following the one or two still ahead of us, but it might appear so to an onlooker. We are following the same Spirit they are following and are...waiting for one of those men to get in some strange and wonderful air current where all wind resistance disappears and suddenly they are no longer following but are being...sucked in to that spot of no resisistance or noise. They're actually...being pushed or maybe...pulled, BY the thing we are all following. And oh boy, the happiness, knowing they will come back with wonderful things for us.

Yeah, it's sort of...like that.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

and maybe...we even sort of...help push the men in front of us. Like...we...are behind them almost creating our own wind that helps propel them...into that sweet spot. They see us and maybe think...okay, I can keep going, they are helping to make it easier somehow...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And we sort of have to be careful because I've seen this happen a little bit in here, but...the shrieking birds can't be chased off by stopping to do it. We have to keep walking while they shriek. If we stop to swat at one them, we get further behind by our stopping. I'm almost convinced we have to just shut out their noise and ignore them...not sure.