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Featured LUKE 3:16 BAPTISM OF FIRE

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Doug, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    If you are referring to Acts 19 The Holy Ghost came on them not by being baptized but by Paul laying hands on them in verse 6.
     
  2. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    John was preaching to all of Israel (Acts 13:24 says all) but not all responded as can be seen in Luke 7:29-30
     
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  3. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Israel if church corporate, synagogue if church local.

    But the expression "Living stones" was actually to distinguish; from a stationary building in Jerusalem being where God's Spirit resided to a group of people upon whom He resided.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  4. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Correct. The Pharisees and scribes were likewise among those he preached to, but unlike those he was speaking to in Luke 3:16-17, they refused to be baptized by John. They just came out to see what he was up to when it says "and they came to his baptism" in Matthew 3:7.
     
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  5. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello
    In Luke 3:16-17 John was speaking also to exhortation; John was preaching a separation during the tribulation of fruitful and unfruitful Israel.
     
  6. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm... interesting thought, but I think the prophecy here was pointing more towards the conquest of Jerusalem than the tribulation. It does, however, appear that the symbolism of the "threshing-floor" was in reference to Israel. But Gentile believers would have also had to have been included among the "wheat" here, since Paul stated that the true Jews were those who were Jews inwardly (Romans 2:25-29).
     
  7. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello Bro
    As far as the threshing floor Jesus spoke of separating the believing remnant from the unbelieving Jews:
    Luke 12:51
    John 7:43
    Matthew 21:43
    Luke 12:32

    The believing Jews would enter the prophetic kingdom after the tribulation and reign with Christ as kings and priests, Israel would be a holy nation, a peculiar people, Israel would become one nation:
    Revelation 5:10
    Revelation 20:6
    Exodus 19:6
    Deuteronomy 14:2
    1 Peter 2:9

    Gentiles at that time had to go through Israel and would be part of the election of grace as can be seen in Romans 11 and would enter into the kingdom:
    Romans 11:5
    Romans 11:13 These are Gentiles that were in Christ before Paul was saved...they believed the gospel of the kingdom preached by Peter and the apostles and they are the wheat you spoke of.
     
  8. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Not tripping on that Naive deal too much to guess huh HiH?
    ok, ty
     
  9. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    HiH
     
  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    easy to find yourself justifying yourself with the Bible i guess, huh
     
  11. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    I had seen your reply but I didn't understand it Because in the end, everyone will be accountable.
     
  12. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Ah well you say "not by being baptized" Doug, but wouldn't a "baptism of fire" or "spirit" kind of necessarily preclude any water um ceremony thing anyway? Like what you are...imaging there that a witness might have actually seen, i mean? With their Two Eyes iow? "Baptism" has to go with "water?" Can't really, right?
     
  13. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Washed with the water of the word...
     
  14. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    And also: "you are already clean."

    Howso? By their water baptism by John?

    No. Jesus said, you are already clean...because of the word I have spoken to you.
     
  15. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Well how about the special ppl? Tbh wouldn't surprise me too much if more like almost no one is considered accountable lol, but i dunno there, let's consider those who...even we--as in everyone--give a pass to for right now first maybe. Generally speaking even the "simple" get a pass, yes?

    And I'm kinda just now realizing duh little children are not accountable too are they, for basically the same reason? But as an aside, this is where i'm going, not where we're at yet. Now where the line is up there i don't know...ok well i do, someone could be quite ignorant and yet still have eaten from the tree of knowledge huh, you can tell by how they talk, "this is that and that is this" stuff alla time, so maybe "simple" is not quite the best current idiom, but obviously somewhere on the scale of what we define as "intelligence" we generally agree that someone who cannot defend themselves say, in a court of law even...ha which opens up another can i guess, but you get me here right, we have a, maybe each have an individual IQ standard that we hold others to as a "pass-fail" for "accountability?"

    And wow i was riffing on this "accountability" thing the other day, i mentioned like "bookkeepping" and i think "wages" and kinda got challenged there but not really so i just kinda let it go, even though it sounded like wages to me...but anyway we even like seek to be considered accountable and adult and mature and stuff, huh?

    So fwiw i honestly don't know, at "everyone accountable" ok, i'd be asking where you got that idea first.
     
  16. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    But what does that even mean though, iyo?

    So, dunno if i could even demonstrate very easily, but there is a way that i could agree with you that would illustrate the baptisms of fire for sure, and maybe even Spirit, and i'd be using Scripture but you would not like the word prolly. I wonder if we could discuss this last concept?
     
  17. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    I first got the idea that all men will be held accountable, I guess...from a future time when a light so bright will hit every man that nothing will be hidden. Even unbelievers have a shared dream of being in a huge gathering of people, up on a stage in a spotlight, to find in the dream that they are completely naked, with everyone looking on their nakedness.

    As for the rest of your post, I think no one will be be expected to make an account for what they don't have, but for whatever they do have and were given.

    I don't have it all figured out, but I do know that the very ones who have been given more will have a greater accounting, not less as they seem to think.
     
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  18. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Ha well, that amounts to another riddle right, what "word" was Jesus referring too iyo?
     
  19. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    What makes you think I would not like the word from God. I love scripture...
     
  20. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    He said: the word I have spoken to you.
     
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