Manifestations

[Arnie Manitoba]

I agree with you Veteran .... i think we have been on the same page all along .... i was just mixing up my words at first.

Quite frankly those videos give me the creeps ..... I try my best to hope it is from God ..... but I really dont think it is .... and besides I cannot find any value in it for the church or for anyone.

The only explaiation people come up with is "they feel good" about it ....... well I had a gallon of ice cold Canadian Champagne new years eve and it felt good too ..... but i would never claim it came from the Holy Spirit.

The closest thing i can think of is back in the 1970's they had a live TV show where they would hypnotize the whole audience ..... the hypnotists could make everybody roll on the floor laughing .... or at his command everyone would crawl around and bark as dogs.

Looked a lot like in those Videos posted above ..... those TV shows were actually hillarious to watch .... that was the whole intent ... hypnotize people to make fools of themselves ....... now it appears if you hang a little sighn on the door "Toronto Airport Church" then everybody assumes it is coming from the Holy spirit.

I worry about some christians nowadays.

I would be completely embarrased if i was caught on video doing stuff like that .... like somebody else said ..."they have lost thier minds"

I also know that the Pentecostal /Charismatic will not listen to caution ..... they think it is US who do not get it ..... it is like they are trapped in a cult or something.

I have been a pretty solid christian for almost 27 years ..... back then i also spent some time in the pentecostal churches ..... I have seen it all.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

I do agree that there are fanatical people and even whole churches and that they do things that may not be completely spirit led. However, the problem I see with people who are critical of manifestatiosn is that those who speak against them usually have not experienced them. It is a bit like me saying that Cincinnati is a evil and wicked place without ever being there. When such like people fuss and fume they really lack credibility. Personally, though, I would rather have excess that deadness. It is much easier to work with someone who is at least moving.

Sincerely,

Justin

 

[Raeneske]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="williemac" data-cid="179580" data-time="1357182834"><p>
O, but maybe you haven't thought this through, my friend. What Paul was describing was in fact a real gift of the Spirit. He admitted that though a person's understanding was/is unfruitful, nonetheless he is in fact, praying in tongues. This was not a counterfeit. He also informed them/us, that when a person speaks in a tongue, he does not speak to men but to God. And furthermore, he is speaking mysteries. So now we have a bit of a conundrum, according to your take on it: For It seems that the Holy Spirit has gifted men to speak mysteries to God in an unknown tongue. So if this is not what is intended by the gift, then why was/is the Holy Spirit going along with it? This is not something a man can do from his own ability, don't forget. Tongues is a gift. And as well, if it is being done privately between a man and God, as Paul validated in 14:28 (1Cor.), then how is it disorderly? And how do you say it doesn't help that man, when Paul stated that it edifies him (vs.4)? Just because he didn't say how it edifies, doesn't mean that it doesn't edify. As well, I have no obligation to you, myself, or God, to show or prove that my praying in tongues is bearing fruit. My obligation is to merely trust Him in the gift.</p></blockquote>

No, that is incorrect. The reason he said you are speaking to God, and not man is because you aren't saying anything to man. If you speak in an unknown language (but a real language nonetheless), you are only speaking to God. And why is that? Because you are speaking mysteries to your fellow man. They don't understand, but God does. I am speaking of the real tongues, not the counterfeit tongues which is to utter gibberish and non-sensical sounds. Real tongues has always been portrayed as a real language. Hence what happened at Pentecost, they were not speaking gibberish, but real languages.

True tongues is a gift. Counterfeit tongues is not a gift. I can counterfeit tongues as well, but I choose not to do such a thing. Anyone can counterfeit tongues. When you speak true languages which are upon this earth, then I shall believe you have the gift of Tongues. But so long as you believe you speak to God making nonsensical sounds, it will be made evident you do not hold the true gift of tongues.

Paul said tongues was made for unbelievers, not so you could speak to God. It is unfruitful, and you shall manifest no fruits speaking gibberish. While you could be praying for strength, and wisdom, you are still wasting your time making sounds a baby could make.

Again, Paul is not saying speaking in an unknown tongue is good. It is unfruitful.

Now, if you are speaking in an unknown tongue to the people around you, yet you know legitimatly what you're saying, THAT edifies yourself, and not the others around you. The unknown tongue, is a real language still. It is not gibberish, but a language known upon this earth. So if you all of a sudden started speaking in French to bunch of Spanish speakers, that would only edify you, and not them. How is it edifying? As you speak the truth, the Holy Ghost changes it to a language upon your tongue. You then, speaking English, would then have it come out as French. You know what you're saying. Your audience doesn't. That would edify you, and not them.

Again, real tongues is a true language, and not gibberish, and certainly not confusion.

 

[Rex]

Dear All,

I do agree that there are fanatical people and even whole churches and that they do things that may not be completely spirit led. However, the problem I see with people who are critical of manifestatiosn is that those who speak against them usually have not experienced them. It is a bit like me saying that Cincinnati is a evil and wicked place without ever being there. When such like people fuss and fume they really lack credibility. Personally, though, I would rather have excess that deadness. It is much easier to work with someone who is at least moving.

Sincerely,

Justin

Let me comment on what you have said.

When these people desire or in some cases insist on tongues as evidence of the indwelling of the HS, they open a door, a door that is not mentioned by Apostles; that being tongues "must be spoken" now an untaught "door" is open in the form of "necessity" a manifestation is expected and anyone desiring to enter into this group must as well exhibit and experience as evidence. What an opportunity for unclean spirits to manifest themselves on an unfounded "necessity" of evidence.

More to my point, you said "However, the problem I see with people who are critical of manifestations is that those who speak against them usually have not experienced them." and in light of what I just said above, that would mean a willingness to share in a manifestation because you believe it be from God as "evidence" rather than testing or it being revealed by the Spirit that dwells with-in you and I. In any case I choose to believe the Spirit that has lead me for many years, than to prostitute myself out to something the HS has not lead me to do. Now by making entrance into a church "membership" it is taught the same manifestation in Acts 2 must be demonstrated and in your statement experienced. But IMO it simply amounts to opening yourself up to another spirit, one that will be happy to manifest any number of different things so long as these manifestations are seen by those in attendance as being evidence of the presents of God.

Another point is the apparent necessity of proximity. Using the first instance of the HS being given in Acts 2 as these people do, the point of proximity was important to the 11 and they were told directly to wait together. The HS doesn't necessarily work in that fashion after in-dwelling a man. The HS is capable of revelation to every member no matter where those members my be. By chasing these manifestations from location to location indicates a different spirit, words like don't miss out on the blessing that will come upon those in attendance. Proximity as in a particular denomination must not be over looked as well, now If such things were cropping up threw out all of Christendom then a closer look or evidence that it my be the Holy Spirit, reveling to the members of the body of Christ. But it being localized to a network of churches adds weight that it is not of the Spirit but rather an anomaly or manifestation that these people are exposing themselves to apart from the true body of Christ.

The summery is the door by which unclean spirits are allowed to enter is the "must speak in tongues" Which in turn explains you must experience it to know it, or discern whether it is of God, this I don't find evidence of in the NT. As well as the need for immediate proximity. I have had people that practice dianetics and eastern mysticism extend to me the same invitation. Where as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, That implies getting to KNOW then KNOWING, not by first receiving some unknown spirit and requiring a manifestation.

In short until you can show me where tongues are required evidence that must be manifest in a HS believer. I will continue to believe this is the very door you have opened to invite in that which is not of God.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear R,

What you said about speaking in other tongues is precisely illustrates what I have been talking about. You make the error because you have not experienced the gift.

 

[Rex]

Dear R,

What you said about speaking in other tongues is precisely illustrates what I have been talking about. You make the error because you have not experienced the gift.

Thats untrue and I have no Idea where you got or how you could even make such a statement.
Its not the gift its the teaching about the gift.

You completely ignore my point that tongues being taught as necessary and evidence of the HS is a bit beyond your comprehension skills.
Here I'll underline my point so you can find it.

The summery is the door by which unclean spirits are allowed to enter is the "must speak in tongues" door. Which in turn explains you must experience it to know it, or discern whether it is of God, this I don't find evidence of in the NT. As well as the need for immediate proximity. I have had people that practice dianetics and eastern mysticism extend to me the same invitation. Where as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, That implies getting to KNOW then KNOWING, not by first receiving some unknown spirit and requiring a manifestation.

In short until you can show me where tongues are required evidence that must be manifest in a HS believer. I will continue to believe this is the very door you have opened to invite in that which is not of God.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Hey everybody .... lots of good comments from all sides ...... I have given these 'manifestations" a lot of thought for a lot of years and here are the highlights

--- People who partake in such "manifestations" are not able to give a good explaination ..... often they just label it as Holy Spirit and carry on

--- People who do not partake have no definitive explaination either ...... we want it to be something good ..... yet so much of it appears to be spiritually unclean and unnatural

--- So I ask the following ..... if none of us are absolutely certain if it is from God or not ..... should we even be involved in the first place ....... I think we should not

--- the folks who do partake in those manifistations usually give reasons which are based on emotional feelings .... not spiritual discernment

--- every Christian is guilty of indescretion at one time or another ...... even our leaders and pastors ...... but why is it that the Pentecostal - Charismatic groups have by far the greatest number of offenders ? ... it is almost epidemic at times

--- When I directly ask that question to my charismatic freinds they reply ...... "the devil made me do it"

--- Even the fallen charismatic leaders say ...... "the devil did it "

--- So if being filled with a "charismatic spirit" produces fruit from the devil ..... should we still be calling it Holy .... ??

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear A,

I think people are to caught up in wanting proof of this and proof of that. We seem to be so cautious that we err yet we don't live up to even a fraction of what we know God wants us to do. In my opinion I think we should concentrate on just doing God's will and stop being so introspective.

 

[veteran]

Actually you are proving my point as what you say is based on one video clip.




This claim means that nearly every church service is to be treated with suspicion as most of them do the same thing week in and week out without variation some of them for 500 years.

I don't have to prove anything, BOTH videos speak clearly for themselves. It's the deceived and ignorant that refuse to heed the clear warnings to stay AWAY from those kind of manifestations because they are NOT of God.

Nor am I just basing what I said about those manifestations among pagan practices just from that kundalini video. I'm familiar from having studied about paganism and mysticism and pagan religious history many years ago.

But if you actually want... to partake in those kind of pagan manifestations from another spirit, then have a good trip.

 

[7angels]

arnie you talk about these manifestations as good and bad. what kind of manifestations have you been apart of that were God? if you have been a part of Godly manifestations then how were you able to discern between them. please don't just say Holy Spirit told me because that is a cop out. if we can really feel, hear, and sense the Holy Spirit then you should be able to explain how you know these are or are not Godly manifestations. if so many of you are so certain that these manifestations are bad then how can you tell. the same question can be said to those that believe in Godly manifestations.

i am real interested in hearing how each of us is able to discern what is and is not Godly. for how do you know something is wrong or right when you can't even explain it? those that cannot understand why they believe something is right or wrong is still a babe in Christ's eyes according to the word. a babe in Christ is a person without much revelation knowledge according to the word.

God bless

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

arnie you talk about these manifestations as good and bad. what kind of manifestations have you been apart of that were God? if you have been a part of Godly manifestations then how were you able to discern between them. please don't just say Holy Spirit told me because that is a cop out. if we can really feel, hear, and sense the Holy Spirit then you should be able to explain how you know these are or are not Godly manifestations. if so many of you are so certain that these manifestations are bad then how can you tell. the same question can be said to those that believe in Godly manifestations.

i am real interested in hearing how each of us is able to discern what is and is not Godly. for how do you know something is wrong or right when you can't even explain it? those that cannot understand why they believe something is right or wrong is still a babe in Christ's eyes according to the word. a babe in Christ is a person without much revelation knowledge according to the word.

God bless

Manifestations is not a word I have ever used in my life. It is a word commonly used in charismatic circles , and laughter circles , and bark like a dog circles.

Have I ever had god directly do something in my Christian life over the past 17 years .... yes , definately .... many times.

The majority of the time has been God opening my bible to a specific chapter and verse . I mean the pages literaly turning by themselves. I became a christian that way ..... and for over a year that is all I knew .... I had never been to church in my life , knew no other christians or pastors or preachers. It was as pure as can be.

After about a year I started going to church , it was a Pentecostal church , and that is where i was eventually baptised. People speaking in tongues , rolling on the carpet , swinging on the chandeleirs , waving thier arms in the air and so on.

They continually preached about "how much more holy Spirit" they had than all the other "dead churches" .....

There was more scandles there than any of the other 15 churches in the city. The pastor got caught dinking his secretary and left town. 25 years later I can walk back in there and the same people are doing the same thing ... waving thier arms and rolling on the floor ..... and nothing else that accomplishes anything.

I eased away from that group 25 years ago and god has had an active and productive life for laid out for me which continues today.

My book will be printed shortly and you will see the rest of the story , including my trip to the Jerusalem above and why i was there. It is a factual and stands up to all scrutiny.

sorry for the poor typing .... I am in a hurry to get to church .... seating is limited .... we are doing a huge expansion to accomodate all the new beleivers , we do not speak in tongues or roll on the carpet, or bark like dogs , or think we are anything special.

But God keeps filling the place up ....... filling it with people and new beleivers ..... but he has never filled it with people who bark like dogs or laugh and twitch uncontrollably .

And am i ever glad.

 

[veteran]

arnie you talk about these manifestations as good and bad. what kind of manifestations have you been apart of that were God? if you have been a part of Godly manifestations then how were you able to discern between them. please don't just say Holy Spirit told me because that is a cop out. if we can really feel, hear, and sense the Holy Spirit then you should be able to explain how you know these are or are not Godly manifestations. if so many of you are so certain that these manifestations are bad then how can you tell. the same question can be said to those that believe in Godly manifestations.

i am real interested in hearing how each of us is able to discern what is and is not Godly. for how do you know something is wrong or right when you can't even explain it? those that cannot understand why they believe something is right or wrong is still a babe in Christ's eyes according to the word. a babe in Christ is a person without much revelation knowledge according to the word.

God bless

A Christian can always discern those things... by The Holy Spirit within... God's Word.

I am not speaking of denial of miracles done by God. I'm speaking of manifestations that outwardly appear as miracles from God when they are not. There is NO Biblical evidence of Christ or one of His disciples imparting The Holy Spirit and it made them literally go mad. Yet that very thing is what has happened to some within this movement today.

NOR is there any Biblical evidence for Christ and His Apostles being financially rich, like several of those false prophets have preached in those movements!

Furthermore, the uncontrollable shaking, making animal noises, beating repetitious drums, are all VERIFIED manifestations of non-Christian PAGAN ritual practices, as that kundalini video clip does clearly reveal. That evidence right there no one is going to get around, and whining about it isn't going to change that fact.

In our Lord Jesus' Olivet Discourse upon Mount Olivet to His disciples, the very first and main warning He gave for the end was to NOT allow any man to deceive us (Matt.24; Mark 13). Apostles Paul, Peter, and John all warned about false miracles that are to occur in the last days. In Rev.13 with the "another beast" we were specifically warned of how that false one will work miracles ON EARTH in the sight of men, as also in 2 Thess.2, and in 2 Corinthians 11, and again in Matt.24:24 and Mark 13:22.

I have already taken sides on this matter. Others here can do what they want. I choose to follow those warnings my Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave about these things for the end. And I don't care how popular that kundalini, laughing, etc., becomes in the world.

Imagine, if this kind of movement is already happening now, and is spreading, imagine what level of miracle working the coming false messiah is going to do in our near future.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear A,

Sounds a bit prideful when you say that you are so glad that you are not like them. Does expansion equal God's approval? Does square footage mean that your church is on the right path? It almost comes off as if you thanking God that you are not weird like those manifestation people because they are really messed up. Normally, I really like what you have to say in your posts and think you show a lot of wisdom but I have to disagree with what you say about this.

Those who pushing forward on the beachhead of this spiritual war usually meet the most resistance. For those who come on the beach after the major offensive is done and say, "I don't know what all the hub bub was all about...this is not that bad." is...well...offensive. Middle of the road is called, by Jesus, being neither hot or cold and is distasteful. I think it is better to be hot an make mistakes than to be lukewarm.

You speak against manifestations. Why is that really? What does it matter to you or anyone else if someone rolls on the floor and testifies that they met God doing it? Are you afraid of what people will think of you because of what they do? What spiritual damage is that doing to them or to you? Are you mocking them for being unseemly? A group of people on the day of Acts called what God was doing in the apostles being drunk.

The birth of child is a joyous event, not because of the process, but because of the result. More often than not what God does, while in the end wonderful, is disruptive to the natural order of things. Do you really think that as we move forward in His Spirit that all things will be done decently and in order according to what man thinks?

The restoration of salvation by faith led to war in Europe. The restoration of Spirit baptism lead to Azuza Street and the persecution of those who embraced it's manifestation. Which side are you going to be on when God does the next big thing? Do you believe that there will be no manifestations? Is it going to look like what is currently going on in your church?

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Rex]

i am real interested in hearing how each of us is able to discern what is and is not Godly. for how do you know something is wrong or right when you can't even explain it? those that cannot understand why they believe something is right or wrong is still a babe in Christ's eyes according to the word. a babe in Christ is a person without much revelation knowledge according to the word.

God bless

I believe similar to Arnie and vetren, The HS has and does revel threw the word of God. It has always been my plum-line my map accompanied by faith in Jesus and the HS.

By the revelation "reveling" through the HS and the word a greater understanding and there-for distinction is seen between truth and fiction.

Pentecostals typically point to a Pentecost experience in so much that the gift of tongues must be demonstrated. I tell you It is not a Pentecost experience, first in believing that tongues are always accompanied by the reception of the HS is a "false teaching". The disciples were perpaired they were clean vessels having known the Lord and been instructed in what manner to wait for the gift to be delivered. Lets compare the baptism of Jesus with this event, If we followed the same model we should say that as soon as one is water baptized one will receive the HS just as Jesus had, but their is not one bit of evidence that supports that notion and Peter points that out in Acts 10:38 and look who he also says He helped "He went about doing good and healing all those who were oppressed by the devil. Not delivering those that believed, as is done today.

Back to my point it is foolish to compare Jesus experience with ours, in the same way comparing the out pouring of the HS in Acts 2 with ours. Jesus and the disciples were both pre-prepaired. If it is truly a repeat performance then it must also be accompanied by the sound of rushing wind and tongues of flame, as well as speaking in other tongues in the presents of men that understand in there native tongue and testify they understand, other wise its a counterfeit.

IMO the key point is requiring evidence or a manifestation of tongues that must accompany, no where do the Apostles teach or suggest such a necessity of evidence as tongues. In only one case does Peter relate the HS falling on the gentiles as being the SAME as we received Acts 15:8-9 "And God who knows the heart, bore witness to them by giving the HS just as he did to us".

This is the fulfillment of the rock that gave water to Israel in the wilderness, two times water came from the rock, I have commented on this in detail, two post If you would like to read them.

Post 4 http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17260-proof-being-born-again-is-different-than-being-%E2%80%9Cbaptized-with-the-holy-spirit%E2%80%9D/#entry177851

Post 7 http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17260-proof-being-born-again-is-different-than-being-%E2%80%9Cbaptized-with-the-holy-spirit%E2%80%9D/#entry177976

This is IMO a greater understanding of the HS experience to first the Jews and the Gentiles, It is also the story of Moses greatest error, by misrepresenting the rock and striking it instead of speaking to it as the LORD had said, Moses and Arron never crossed the Jordan into the promised land. Its clear that Cornelius and his household received the HS by hearing, Peter speaking to the Rock of our salvation, having first believed in the Rock that was first struck, Jews & Gentiles.

Long story short, your playing with fire by misrepresenting the rock and the water, in Ex 17 and Numbers 20--> Acts 2 and 10

Your opening a door to allow unclean spirits to enter into men and entertain you by requiring a Pentecost experience, that is not a Pentecost experience at all but a counterfeit.

Now this is how I compare what is said and taught in the power of the HS threw the word of God.

Both instances of the HS are represented in Ex 17 and Num 20, they are uneek there are only two, in Acts as well.

I would encourage you to read as it says in Ex 17:7 Is the LORD among us or not, Num 20:13 the LORD showed himself Holy.

And give up the the necessity of evidence of Pentecost speaking in tongues, in my mind I see unclean spirits laughing, taking turns manifesting themselves in rolling on the floor, laughing in drunkenness, slaying in the spirit ect ect ect. Close the door of necessary evidence "tongues". Never have I even see evidence of someone speaking a language not native to that person and If I did and you called it a true Pentecost experience I would also ask where is the sound of the wind and the flames? Its a cheep copy, an open door for spirits to make fools of the lost that call it evidence of salvation.

 

[7angels]

i appreciate the honest answers from everyone and now i understand a bit more about you all. i won't try and dissuade your thinking on the manifestations of God. but i will tell you my thoughts on the matter. there is more to discerning the things of God then just knowing the word. it also comes down to being able to follow the spirit. just like all the waves of the Spirit also known as the great revivals. each wave of the Spirit or revival that happened had an emphasis. there was the supernatural, healing, salvation(also known as the chrismatic), word(also known as the word of faith), and the next wave about to hit will be the individual ministry(unbelievers will do what before only the select few major ministries did). the next wave will be greater then the last 3 all together. the sad news is that a lot of christians got so caught up in what they were doing that they missed the next move of God and thus were left behind. if you will study the waves of the Spirit you will see that all these revivals were preparing us for what is to come.

what makes christianity so different from the other religions is that Jesus confirms his word through signs, miracles, and wonders. without the confirmation of the word, all christianity is is just another religion. i thank God that that we don't have to believe in the supernatural in order to go to heaven but that also is a poor testimony to the unsaved when we preach what a great God we serve and yet we are living a defeated lifestyle.

God bless

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Dear A,

Sounds a bit prideful when you say that you are so glad that you are not like them.

Blessings,

Justin

.
You have it completely upside down
It is (was) the pentecostal group who stroked the pride of the congregation with the suggestion they had the real measure of the Holy Spirit compared to the other local denomonations

 

[Rex]

i appreciate the honest answers from everyone and now i understand a bit more about you all. i won't try and dissuade your thinking on the manifestations of God. but i will tell you my thoughts on the matter. there is more to discerning the things of God then just knowing the word. it also comes down to being able to follow the spirit. just like all the waves of the Spirit also known as the great revivals. each wave of the Spirit or revival that happened had an emphasis. there was the supernatural, healing, salvation(also known as the chrismatic), word(also known as the word of faith), and the next wave about to hit will be the individual ministry(unbelievers will do what before only the select few major ministries did). the next wave will be greater then the last 3 all together. the sad news is that a lot of christians got so caught up in what they were doing that they missed the next move of God and thus were left behind. if you will study the waves of the Spirit you will see that all these revivals were preparing us for what is to come.

what makes christianity so different from the other religions is that Jesus confirms his word through signs, miracles, and wonders. without the confirmation of the word, all christianity is is just another religion. i thank God that that we don't have to believe in the supernatural in order to go to heaven but that also is a poor testimony to the unsaved when we preach what a great God we serve and yet we are living a defeated lifestyle.

God bless

With due respect it looks as though you want your cake and to eat it as well.
Do I have to now remind you that signs and wonders will also accompany false prophets and teachers?

You echo the words do not be deceived some will say here is the Lord or their he is in the desert.

the sad news is that a lot of christians got so caught up in what they were doing that they missed the next move of God and thus were left behind.

That after a big plug for signs and wonders. With words like "waves of the Spirit also known as the great revivals." Or "the next wave will be greater then the last 3 all together." In all the teaching from scripture doesn't predict a revival but a falling away, a deception that if possible to deceive the elect. The same apostasy is mentioned in 2 Thes.

I have mentions several times now that the very foundation of "must speak in tongues" ministries is flawed.
Signs and wonders are not excursively preformed by the HS.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Does expansion equal God's approval? Does square footage mean that your church is on the right path?

What do you think ?? We built a school and turn out some of the highest performing students , it brought many of the parents to christ , steady growth for years FROM NEW BELEIVERS has required a $3m expansion , we are in a small town , modest incomes , in one day we fill 500 large grocery bags and give to the salvation army if they are running short ,

The pentecostal church had 250 members in its heyday .... 1985 .... all came from other denominations ..... none were new beleivers ..... lots of emotional "manifistations" that ended after the servive .... scandals galore .... started a school tha tfailed after 2 years .... new pastors every year or so ... then they quit ..... still a diehard congregation of about 70 who are too PROUD to leave

Which of those groups do you think has the Holy Spirit working in it Justin ?

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear A,

I will not argue with you that UPC penticostals have been caught up in pride. I think it is a function of legalism. But really, especially if you are a bit more aware than some, we should just let people experience God and act out in whatever way they feel like. There are some that will need correction but in the main it is just good that they are trying to yeild to God.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Justin Mangonel, on 06 Jan 2013 - 10:36, said:
You speak against manifestations. Why is that really? What does it matter to you or anyone else if someone rolls on the floor and testifies that they met God doing it? Are you afraid of what people will think of you because of what they do? What spiritual damage is that doing to them or to you? Are you mocking them for being unseemly? A group of people on the day of Acts called what God was doing in the apostles being drunk.

I am not against them or anything .... all i do is make observations

The charismatic group here CLAIMS to have an extra measure of the holy spirit yet they run around like chickens with thier heads cut off.

And 25 years later and they still run around like confused chickens

Just an observation thats all