Mark of the Beast

[Marta]

Veteran, you said: "You're welcome Marta. I know my posts can be a bit wordy, but I try not to use fancy words and instead use plain speech."
Your posts are always great, never too wordy, and I appreciate plain speech. It's easiest for all to understand and it gets right to the point of the matter.

Wayne, Ridgerunner & shilohsfoal, thank you all! This is all a lot to take in and digest in my mind, so am reading and re-reading here. I'm learning much thanks to the discussion. Thank you all again for your input.

 

[veteran]

I see the little nation of Israel as the little horn of the beast.
Also the beast.I realize about 2 % of the population there are christian and the number is falling.
I also understand the false prophet shall be in Jerusalem soon as well to support the beast.

You've missed the prophecy then, because the "little horn" of Daniel is about a specific person, not a nation. Even in Daniel we're told the ten horns represent 10 kings, not 10 nations; likewise as in Rev.17 the ten horns are ten kings that receive power with the 7th beast king when he comes.

What you call the antichrist I call the false prophet.
I use the termonology given to me in revelation as to not confuse anyone as to what an antichrist is or the false prophet.The two are not the same thing.The false prophet may be an antichrist but then again he might not deny Christ or claim the Christ hasnt come. I understand the man will send an army into Judea but that army shall keep the laws made by the Knesset(The high synagogue).

1. No flesh born man will be judged and sentenced to perish before Christ's future thousand years reign with His elect.

2 The false prophet and beast of Rev.16:13 go into the "lake of fire" at Christ's return, but not the "dragon" (Rev.19:20; 20:10).


We know the "dragon" title is simply another title for Satan per Rev.12:9 and 20:2. And he is not destroyed in the lake of fire until after... Christ's thousand years.

That false prophet per Rev.19:20 is to work 'miracles'. So is the dragon of Rev.13:11 forward, which is also called the "another beast", a SECOND beast. The first beast is his kingdom of Rev.13:1. Got to keep the two beasts of Rev.13 separate, for they are two different things, one is a kingdom, the other is its king that rules over it, does miracles on earth, and gives the first beast its power (per Rev.13:11 forward).

The false prophet is a 'role' that the second beast plays.

The reason it goes into the lake of fire at Christ's coming is because it's a role played by the dragon second beast when he comes. When Christ returns, the first beast (kingdom), and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, but not the dragon (Satan). Rev.11 on the 7th Trumpet tells us Christ will rule from then on at His return. Satan will never again setup another 'beast' kingdom like the one of Rev.13:1. That's what its going into the lake of fire at Christ's return represents. Same with the false prophet role which is only for this present world at the end before Christ's return.

At the end of Christ's future thousand years, when Satan is released one more time to deceive the nations, there won't be any mystery as to who he is. That's why when he does that, those coming up against the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" on earth will be destroyed (Rev.20:7-10).

 

[shilohsfoal]

Veteran.
The kingdom was devided after WW2 and the little horn has been reigning alongside o the other ten since that time.
They dont like him and he is different than they just as the scripture says.They also have fought against the little horn and lost just as the scripture says .
You have just been mislead into believing something else.
The prophecies concerning that kingdom have been unfolding since that little horn took control of the pleasant land just as the scrtipture says he would.

The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
You claim to understand prophecy but you keep ignoring the testimony of Jesus..


Jesus spoke openly for the world to hear who will kill the saints.
Mathjew 23;34
Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall you scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

 

[veteran]

Veteran.
The kingdom was devided after WW2 and the little horn has been reigning alongside o the other ten since that time.
They dont like him and he is different than they just as the scripture says.They also have fought against the little horn and lost just as the scripture says .
You have just been mislead into believing something else.
The prophecies concerning that kingdom have been unfolding since that little horn took control of the pleasant land just as the scrtipture says he would.

The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
You claim to understand prophecy but you keep ignoring the testimony of Jesus..


Jesus spoke openly for the world to hear who will kill the saints.
Mathjew 23;34
Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them you shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall you scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

That's really wild supposition, and not staying within the parameters of the Scripture at all. You've completely missed how our Lord Jesus in giving His Revelation updated information in the Book of Daniel about that false one to come.

But I see that kind of supposition a lot, those trying to study the Book of Daniel completely apart from our Lord's Book of Revelation, which was specifically given in the last days to unveil those prophecies written back in the Old Testament about the end of this world.


Dan 7:7-9
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, Whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head like the pure wool: His throne was like the fiery flame, and His wheels as burning fire.
(KJV)

That's labeled as the fourth beast with ten horns, and another little horn coming up in power over them. There's actually 5 beast kingdoms represented in Dan.2 with the beast image statue that Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream. The final one is represented with ten toes of iron mixed with clay, and is to exist when Christ comes to strike it on its feet, and the whole statue comes tumbling down. The fourth is used as a carry-over pattern for the final 5th beast kingom to occur at the very end of this world.

The Revelation parallel of those ten horns (ten kings) and the "little horn" is in Rev.17, with the 7th beast king still yet to come, and the ten kings that won't come to power until that 7th beast king arrives on the scene.


Dan 7:20-22
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
(KJV)

That "little horn" is to make war with Christ's saints in the end, the SAME reference Christ gave in His Revelation per Rev.12, 13 and 17 regarding the "dragon" "another beast" or beast king.


Dan 7:24-26
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
(KJV)

The "little horn" is an individual person, and he's to take power over all the other kings per Rev.17. Rev.13 declares how he will exalt himself above God, and cause all the world to bow in false worship to the beast image that he will setup. That "time, and times and the dividing of time" equals a period of 3.5 years, or 1260 days, or 42 months, the same time given in Revelation for the coming of that false one to rule over the earth and persecute Christ's saints.

That "little horn" ain't... the nation of Israel, nor Jerusalem. It's a certain man, even the one of Rev.13 who's number is 666.

Thus your doctrine is not a whole lot different than the false one which Ridgerunner is on, that of trying to replace the meaning of Scripture involving a specific coming false one instead with a whole nation like Israel.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Thus your doctrine is not a whole lot different than the false one which Ridgerunner is on, that of trying to replace the meaning of Scripture involving a specific coming false one instead with a whole nation like Israel.

Actually the doctrine shilosfoal espouses has very few if any similarities to the doctrine I espouse. Comparing the two is like trying to compare an apple to an orange. I realize you disagree with my belief on antichrist/ antichrists, but as I have demonstrated previously (and will do so again) it is Scripturally sound and can be supported 100% with Scripture. It is true that 1John2:18 he said”ye have heard that antichrist shall come”. He also told us exactly what/who that antichrist was when in 1John4:3 he said “this is that spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Read the verses and accept what it says or reject the choice is yours.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world

My friend as we can see from 1John4:3 the singular antichrist John said they heard shall come had already come when he wrote the Epistle. Continuing to deny it will not change what Scripture says.

Your continued use of disparaging remarks and traditional doctrinally based arguments only demonstrates your inability to provide Scripturally sound hermeneutically based arguments to defend your position. As you are led friend as you are led.

"God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not dependent on how artfully he can defend his doctrines, but on his willingness to seek out and follow the truth." - Ellis Skolfield.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Veteran .
The little horn is already there.
The one you are waiting for is the host given to the little horn
.
Daniel 8;12
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.


This is what hasnt happened yet.But it doesnt happen till its time.
The host given to the little horn is what sets up the abomination of desolation.

 

[veteran]

Actually the doctrine shilosfoal espouses has very few if any similarities to the doctrine I espouse. Comparing the two is like trying to compare an apple to an orange. I realize you disagree with my belief on antichrist/ antichrists, but as I have demonstrated previously (and will do so again) it is Scripturally sound and can be supported 100% with Scripture. It is true that 1John2:18 he said”ye have heard that antichrist shall come”. He also told us exactly what/who that antichrist was when in 1John4:3 he said “this is that spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Read the verses and accept what it says or reject the choice is yours.

Well, really the doctrine of nothing but many antichrists only is just like... the false doctrine shilohsfoal is on, the only difference being that he is pointing to a whole nation like Israel as being like the final antichrist, while you point to the idea of the spirit of antichrist only, and not the singular individual antichrist that is still to come in final.

Veteran .
The little horn is already there.
The one you are waiting for is the host given to the little horn
.
Daniel 8;12
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.


This is what hasnt happened yet.But it doesnt happen till its time.
The host given to the little horn is what sets up the abomination of desolation.

Nope, the "little horn" of Daniel is a king, an individual, the 7th beast king of Rev.17:8-11 while the ten horns are ten kings that don't come to power with him until that little horn arrives on the scene. The doctrine you're on denies the coming of a specific final antichrist that will cause the deceived to bow to him in place of our Lord Jesus Christ. And that final antichrist is well written of in many Scriptures, including in the Book of Daniel.

It's starting to sound like you want Christian brethren to not be able to recognize the coming false messiah that our Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us about for the end of this present world.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well, really the doctrine of nothing but many antichrists only is just like... the false doctrine shilohsfoal is on, the only difference being that he is pointing to a whole nation like Israel as being like the final antichrist, while you point to the idea of the spirit of antichrist only, and not the singular individual antichrist that is still to come in final.

Nothing false about it, you keep attempting to use 1John2:18 to justify a belief in a singular endtime antime antichrist but as I have demonstrated multiple times that belief does not match what Scripture says. Allow me to post the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists once more so all can see that none of those verses state that antichrist is an end time world leader.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

You can continue to argue based on doctrinally based reasoning all you want but the inspired word of God is clear, John told us exactly what/who the antichrist they had heard would come (from1John2:18) is/was in 1John4:3. It is a simple truth you can deny it if you choose but that still won't change what Scripture actually says nor will it make the doctrine you espouse correct. Be blessed veteran, as you are led friend as you are led!

 

[veteran]

Nothing false about it, you keep attempting to use 1John2:18 to justify a belief in a singular endtime antime antichrist but as I have demonstrated multiple times that belief does not match what Scripture says. Allow me to post the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists once more so all can see that none of those verses state that antichrist is an end time world leader.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

You can continue to argue based on doctrinally based reasoning all you want but the inspired word of God is clear, John told us exactly what/who the antichrist they had heard would come (from1John2:18) is/was in 1John4:3. It is a simple truth you can deny it if you choose but that still won't change what Scripture actually says nor will it make the doctrine you espouse correct. Be blessed veteran, as you are led friend as you are led!

Your words are nothing but hot air. They have no foundation in God's Truth, because you would rather listen to the world instead. And it is the worldy that is pushing that 'there is no single antichrist' lie.

Go on, build your New World Order with you buddies and get ready to lick the boots of the coming antichrist which will be Satan himself. It's not difficult now to know what you're really about. I just wonder what it is they promised you?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Your words are nothing but hot air. They have no foundation in God's Truth, because you would rather listen to the world instead. And it is the worldy that is pushing that 'there is no single antichrist' lie. Go on, build your New World Order with you buddies and get ready to lick the boots of the coming antichrist which will be Satan himself. It's not difficult now to know what you're really about. I just wonder what it is they promised you?

I've provided Scripture from the inspired word of God that supports my view 100%. On the other hand you have once again resorted to disparaging remarks that are baseless simply because you cannot provide Scripture that proves the view you espouse correct. For those who have not been following the thread allow me to post the only 4 verses in Scripture that use the term antichrist or antichrists. None of those verses state that antichrist is an end time world leader.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

As we can clearly see the bolded words in 1John2:18 do say "ye have heard that antichrist shall come". Still we must not forget that in that same Epistle John told us exactly who/what that antichrist was and that it was already in the world. Didn't John say "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that itshould come; and even already now is it in the world"? So to continue insisting John was saying this was a future event is to deny the simple truth of God's inspired word concerning antichrists. To do so does exactly as Christ warned against in Mark7:13.

As you are led friend, as you are led.

 

[shilohsfoal]

I've provided Scripture from the inspired word of God that supports my view 100%. On the other hand you have once again resorted to disparaging remarks that are baseless simply because you cannot provide Scripture that proves the view you espouse correct. For those who have not been following the thread allow me to post the only 4 verses in Scripture that use the term antichrist or antichrists. None of those verses state that antichrist is an end time world leader.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

As we can clearly see the bolded words in 1John2:18 do say "ye have heard that antichrist shall come". Still we must not forget that in that same Epistle John told us exactly who/what that antichrist was and that it was already in the world. Didn't John say "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that itshould come; and even already now is it in the world"? So to continue insisting John was saying this was a future event is to deny the simple truth of God's inspired word concerning antichrists. To do so does exactly as Christ warned against in Mark7:13.

As you are led friend, as you are led.

Many of us know these verses and few of us understand them but Veterans belief didnt come from these verses.
His belief came from men who attempted to teach Veteran thier beliefs.
He is so mixed up he cant tell the difference between the false prophet and the beast.
Besides this he will probably vote for Mitt Romney in the coming election.Thats how much veteran understands scripture.

 

[veteran]

Both of you are on the same type of doctrine of men, that of denying Scripture warning about the future coming of a singular pseudo-Christ that's to work great signs and wonders on earth that would almost deceive Christ's own elect, if it were possible. You have been shown the Matt.24:23-26, 2 Thess.2:3-4, and Rev.13:11-17 Scripture about that multiple times, and are without excuse for refusing to heed it as written.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Both of you are on the same type of doctrine of men, that of denying Scripture warning about the future coming of a singular pseudo-Christ that's to work great signs and wonders on earth that would almost deceive Christ's own elect, if it were possible. You have been shown the Matt.24:23-26, 2 Thess.2:3-4, and Rev.13:11-17 Scripture about that multiple times, and are without excuse for refusing to heed it as written.

Doesn’t Mat24:23-26 tell us there are many false Christ’s?
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great
signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Aren’t false Christs plural where is your singular pseudo-Christ in those verses?

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there
come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Would a pseudo-Christ show the world or himself that he is God?

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns
like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the
earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was
healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven
on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles
which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the
earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword,
and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the
beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the
beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to
receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of
the beast, or the number of his name.

Scripture tells us beasts are kingdom (Dan7:23) and history proves it. Can you show us where Scripture tells us a beast is the antichrist or a psuedo-Christ?

Can you use Scripture to prove that all these verses are speaking of the same entity? No, or you would have already done so. The best you have done is provide doctrinally based arguments that have been proven to be in error. Why cling to a doctrine you are not capable of proving with Scripture? If your doctrine and Scripture are incompatible change your doctrine not the Scriptures.

Be blessed friend, as you are led friend, as you are led!

 

[shilohsfoal]

Both of you are on the same type of doctrine of men, that of denying Scripture warning about the future coming of a singular pseudo-Christ that's to work great signs and wonders on earth that would almost deceive Christ's own elect, if it were possible. You have been shown the Matt.24:23-26, 2 Thess.2:3-4, and Rev.13:11-17 Scripture about that multiple times, and are without excuse for refusing to heed it as written.

You have no idea what Im talkling about.
As for doctrins of men .Its your doctrin that comes from men as many men teach the same doctrin.
No one on this board has heard anything like I say except those who have heard me before proving my beliefs did not come from man.

Like I said ,you would vote for Mitt Romney.
Thats how much you know and you have no idea why I would say such a thing.None at all.

 

[veteran]

Doesn’t Mat24:23-26 tell us there are many false Christ’s?
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great
signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Aren’t false Christs plural where is your singular pseudo-Christ in those verses?

Look in the original Greek, since the KJV is a translation from Greek manuscripts. The KJV word "false Christs" is 'pseudochristos', from two Greek words 'pseudo' (false) and 'Christos' (Christ). You should have also noted how the 23rd and 26th verses are given in the singular sense.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there
come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Would a pseudo-Christ show the world or himself that he is God?

What did Satan do in the beginning to rebel against God? Learn that and you'll have your answer.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns
like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the
earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was
healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven
on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles
which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the
earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword,
and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the
beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the
beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to
receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of
the beast, or the number of his name.

Scripture tells us beasts are kingdom (Dan7:23) and history proves it. Can you show us where Scripture tells us a beast is the antichrist or a psuedo-Christ?

If you cannot grasp how that "another beast" is a different beast idea than the kingdom beast mentioned in Rev.13:1-2, then no one can get through to you.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Look in the original Greek, since the KJV is a translation from Greek manuscripts. The KJV word "false Christs" is 'pseudochristos', from two Greek words 'pseudo' (false) and 'Christos' (Christ). You should have also noted how the 23rd and 26th verses are given in the singular sense.

Once again may I remind you that a psuedochrist is one who attempts to take the place of Christ while an antichrist is one who denies Christ/God. Confusing the two will lead to false doctrine. Besides as history has shown there have already been many false Christs (people that claimed they were Christ) and per Scripture many antichrists (1John2:18). So how does this prove your belief that 1John2:18 is referring to an individaul end time antichrist? It doesn't. Haven't you read 1John4:3 where he told us exactly who/what the antichrist "ye have heard shall come" from 1John2:18 was? Please note the bolded part of the following 2 verses:
1John2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

What did Satan do in the beginning to rebel against God? Learn that and you'll have your answer.

As I said before the man of sin shows himself that he is God. Would a falsechrist show himself that he is God or would he attempt to convince the world? Where does the man of sin sit? Is the temple of God the body of believers (Eph2:19-21) or (in this case possibly) an individual believer (1Cor3:16-17 and 2Cor6:16.)? Even if the Jews build a building (and they may) it won’t be the temple of God, but just an empty shell. Christ declared their temple desolate before the crucifixicion, rebuilding it won’t change that. God does not dwell in temples made with hands (Act7:48 and Acts17:24).
Heb 8:1-2 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an
high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man
For a spiritually blinded Jew given the spirit of slumber to believe that a man made temple is the temple of God is understandable (incorrect but understandable), but as Christians living after the crucifixion we should recognize that man made buildings are no longer the temple of God.
Heb8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

If you cannot grasp how that "another beast" is a different beast idea than the kingdom beast mentioned in Rev.13:1-2, then no one can get through to you.

Friend I have shown where Scripture actually tells us beasts are kingdoms (Dan7:23) and history proves God’s word true. Can you provide a single verse that says a beast is the antichrist? If not then I think when it comes to prophecy (figurative language) I will stick with the definition for a beast that God’s inspired word provides. Considering that History proved God’s word true concerning beasts in the past I see no reason to believe this beast is not a kingdom or empire also. If you choose to believe a man made doctrine that was built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles instead, so be it, your choice. Just be careful that by doing so you don’t end up doing exactly what Christ warned against in Mark7:13.
As you are led friend, as you are led.

 

[veteran]

Once again may I remind you that a psuedochrist is one who attempts to take the place of Christ while an antichrist is one who denies Christ/God. Confusing the two will lead to false doctrine.

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That type of answer is not addressing the Scripture in question, but instead the spouting of opinion. By understanding Greek 'pseudo-Christos', which the KJV translators chose... to render as "false Christs", that will lead away... from man's doctrines about it. In Greek the singular title of Christ is the word 'Christos' (with an 's'), as an easy to use Lexicon like the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance will easily show.

Besides as history has shown there have already been many false Christs (people that claimed they were Christ) and per Scripture many antichrists (1John2:18). So how does this prove your belief that 1John2:18 is referring to an individaul end time antichrist? It doesn't.

If you remembered your Old Testament history, you'd understand very well how 1 John 2:18 is speaking of not just the idea of "many antichrists", but also specifically about antichrist in the singular tense also. All the previous world beast kingdoms of history had a 'king' over them, and that king represented 'a' singular antichrist figure in power over all. The king of Babylon was the strongest pattern of history for the antichrist linked to the one coming per Rev.13:11-17. And lo, our Lord Jesus even uses... the title of Babylon once again for the final world beast kingdom of Revelation 17-18.

 

[Ridgerunner]

That type of answer is not addressing the Scripture in question, but instead the spouting of opinion. By understanding Greek 'pseudo-Christos', which the KJV translators chose... to render as "false Christs", that will lead away... from man's doctrines about it. In Greek the singular title of Christ is the word 'Christos' (with an 's'), as an easy to use Lexicon like the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance will easily show.

If you want to claim that antichrists are false Christs then you need to use Scripture to prove it. Not one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us that antichrist is a false Christ. Nor do any of the verses that refer to false Christs tell us that a false Christ is the antichrist. Antichrists deniy Christ/God (and there are many per Scripture) the other tries to take Christs place.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Antichrists deny Christ/God and there are many as the verses above clearly show. A false Christ on the other hand falsely claims to be Christ. Confusing the two will only lead to false doctrine. I find it intersting that you claim an antichrist (which per Scripture denies Christ) is trying to claim to be Christ. How can a false Christ claim to be Christ if he denies the existence of Christ? Isn't that abit of an oxymoron (by claiming to be something he denies exists)? See the confusion that results when one builds doctrines in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles?

If you remembered your Old Testament history, you'd understand very well how 1 John 2:18 is speaking of not just the idea of "many antichrists", but also specifically about antichrist in the singular tense also.

If we accept what the inspired word of God tells us in 1John4:3 we have no choice but to recognize exactly who John was referring to when he said "as ye have heard antichrist shall come". Was John wrong when he said this is that spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard should come and even now already is it in the world"?
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Nothing personal friend but I think I'll believe the inspired word of God as recorded in John's epistles over the doctrine (built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles) you espouse.

All the previous world beast kingdoms of history had a 'king' over them, and that king represented 'a' singular antichrist figure in power over all. The king of Babylon was the strongest pattern of history for the antichrist linked to the one coming per Rev.13:11-17.

Once again it is man's doctrine that says a beast is the antichrist. As I have demonstrated God's inspired word tells us beasts are kingdoms (Dan7:23) and history proves the inspired word of God correct with Daniels lion beast being Babylon, the bear Medo-Persia and the leopard Greece.
And let's not forget that Scripture tells us there are 7 kings but yet rhere are 8 beasts.
Rev17:10-11. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

And lo, our Lord Jesus even uses... .the title of Babylon once again for the final world beast kingdom of Revelation 17-18

Let's keep it Scriptural!! Scripture does not call the beast Babylon. The WH*RE that rides on the scarlet colored beasts back is called Babylon.
Rev17:3-5 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH

When your doctrine does not match Scripture change your doctrine , not the Scriptures!
"God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not dependent on how artfully he can defend his doctrines, but on his willingness to seek out and follow the truth." - Ellis Skolfield.

 

[veteran]

If you want to claim that antichrists are false Christs then you need to use Scripture to prove it. Not one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us that antichrist is a false Christ. Nor do any of the verses that refer to false Christs tell us that a false Christ is the antichrist. Antichrists deniy Christ/God (and there are many per Scripture) the other tries to take Christs place.

I believe you're losing it man. You've already been given ample Scripture proof of a coming false one that's to set himself up as God, yet you deny those Scriptures I've given. I didn't write them, our Lord Jesus and His Apostles did. But you'd rather listen to the doctrines of men instead, and all you can do is to fall back on what they've taught you, and to constantly keep quoting the 1 John Scriptures and keep trying to 'affirm' the false doctrine you're on.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I believe you're losing it man. You've already been given ample Scripture proof of a coming false one that's to set himself up as God, yet you deny those Scriptures I've given. I didn't write them, our Lord Jesus and His Apostles did. But you'd rather listen to the doctrines of men instead, and all you can do is to fall back on what they've taught you, and to constantly keep quoting the 1 John Scriptures and keep trying to 'affirm' the false doctrine you're on.

Actually I am the one who falls back on Scripture. You are the one who insists that 1John2:18 is speaking of some individual antichrist in the end because he said "as ye have heard antichrist shall come". Yet for you to do this you must continue to ignore that John told us exactly who/what to expect when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard that ist should come: and even now already is it in the world". While I believe beasts are kingdoms and can actually show in Scripture where God's inspired word tells us beast are kingdoms (Dan7:23} and demonstrate that history proves it with Daniel's lion beast being Babylon, the bear being Medo-Persia and the leopard being Greece. On the other hand you insist a beast is the antichrist but fail to show a single verse that proves it. You even attempt to rewrite Scripture by claiming that the beast of Rev17 is called Babylon, but as I have shown that is not what Scripture states. Scripture does not call the beast Babylon, but Scripture does call the whore that rides the beast Babylon. So as we can see it is you that relies on traditionally taught doctrine that has been built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles. If one jumps through hoops and picks and chooses verses that only support their view they can make Scripture say anything, on the other hand if we accept the definition's God provides in His inspired word most if not all of the traditionally taught end time doctrines unravel quickly.
"God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not dependent on how artfully he can defend his doctrines, but on his willingness to seek out and follow the truth." - Ellis Skolfield.
Isn't it time you set aside your oxymoron false christ you claim is the antichrist? How can a false Christ be an antichrist, don't antichrist deny that Christ/God exist? So now if as you say your false Christ is the antichrist, why is he trying to claim he is something something he denies exist? What kind of sense does that make? It doesn't it is false doctrine built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles.