Mark of the Beast

[veteran]

The following source is a good summary of what Irenaeus and Hippolytus believed about the end time antichrist figure. Hippolytus was a disciple of Irenaeus, and Irenaeus a disciple of Polycarp, and Polycarp was a disciple of Apostle John.

http://blogs.christianpost.com/bibleprophecy/2011/07/the-early-church-fathers-belief-about-the-antichrist-29/


"The beliefs* that Irenaeus and Hippolytus held in common regarding the coming Antichrist can be summarized as follows:

1. Satan will appear as a man in the person of the Antichrist because he seeks to reign as king over mankind and desires to focus the worship of God on himself.
2. The Antichrist will be a Jew, and will achieve his stated objectives by being accepted as the Christ, the messianic king of the Jews, taking his seat in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, pretending to be God Himself, and thereby becoming the 'abomination of desolation' spoken of by the prophet Daniel and mentioned also by Jesus (Daniel 12:11, Matthew 24:15).
3. The Antichrist is the 'little horn' of the fourth beast mentioned in Daniel 7. He will slay three of the other horns and reign as an eighth with the remaining seven (Hippolytus explains that those three are the rulers of Egypt, Libya, and Ethiopia).
4. The Antichrist will achieve his objectives in the middle of the final 7-year period of this age. At that time he will be proclaimed the messianic king of the Jews and will take his seat as God in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. He will reign for three and one-half years.
5. The Antichrist, during his reign, will deceive the majority of people living on the Earth at the time into believing he is God. However, he will persecute those who refuse to worship him because they are able to see through his delusion.
6. Jesus Christ will return to Earth at the end of the three and one-half year reign of the Antichrist, destroying Satan's kingdom. The resurrection of the just will occur at that time.

*References - IRENAEUS:Against Heresies (V, 19-30); HIPPOLYTUS:Treatise on Christ and Antichrist"

 

[Ridgerunner]

The following source is a good summary of what Irenaeus and Hippolytus believed about the end time antichrist figure. Hippolytus was a disciple of Irenaeus, and Irenaeus a disciple of Polycarp, and Polycarp was a disciple of Apostle John.

http://blogs.christi...-antichrist-29/


"The beliefs* that Irenaeus and Hippolytus held in common regarding the coming Antichrist can be summarized as follows:

1. Satan will appear as a man in the person of the Antichrist because he seeks to reign as king over mankind and desires to focus the worship of God on himself.
2. The Antichrist will be a Jew, and will achieve his stated objectives by being accepted as the Christ, the messianic king of the Jews, taking his seat in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, pretending to be God Himself, and thereby becoming the 'abomination of desolation' spoken of by the prophet Daniel and mentioned also by Jesus (Daniel 12:11, Matthew 24:15).
3. The Antichrist is the 'little horn' of the fourth beast mentioned in Daniel 7. He will slay three of the other horns and reign as an eighth with the remaining seven (Hippolytus explains that those three are the rulers of Egypt, Libya, and Ethiopia).
4. The Antichrist will achieve his objectives in the middle of the final 7-year period of this age. At that time he will be proclaimed the messianic king of the Jews and will take his seat as God in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. He will reign for three and one-half years.
5. The Antichrist, during his reign, will deceive the majority of people living on the Earth at the time into believing he is God. However, he will persecute those who refuse to worship him because they are able to see through his delusion.
6. Jesus Christ will return to Earth at the end of the three and one-half year reign of the Antichrist, destroying Satan's kingdom. The resurrection of the just will occur at that time.

*References - IRENAEUS:Against Heresies (V, 19-30); HIPPOLYTUS:Treatise on Christ and Antichrist"

And yet not one of those points can be supported by the only 4 verses in Scripture that use the term antichrist or antichrists. Here are those 4 verses maybe you could show us which of those verses support the points made by the men you quote.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Which of those verses say “Satan will appear as a man in the person of the Antichrist because he seeks to reign as king over mankind and desires to focus the worship of God on himself”? oh that’s right none of them do.

Which of those verses say “The Antichrist will be a Jew, and will achieve his stated objectives by being accepted as the Christ, the messianic king of the Jews, taking his seat in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, pretending to be God Himself, and thereby becoming the 'abomination of desolation' spoken of by the prophet Daniel and mentioned also by Jesus (Daniel 12:11, Matthew 24:15).”? Oh that’s right none of them do it is the doctrine of men that says that. In fact if we accept what Scripture says the abomination is an it that is standing is not a he that sitteth. .
Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
2Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not
come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be
revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Which of those verses say “The Antichrist is the 'little horn' of the fourth beast mentioned in Daniel 7. He will slay three of the other horns and reign as an eighth with the remaining seven (Hippolytus explains that those three are the rulers of Egypt, Libya, and Ethiopia).” That’s right none do. Are you changing your mind haven’t you said in multiple posts that the the antichrist is a beast? So which is it do you believe the antichrist is a beast or the little horn? Which do you believe?

Which of those verses say “The Antichrist will achieve his objectives in the middle of the final 7-year period of this age. At that time he will be proclaimed the messianic king of the Jews and will take his seat as God in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. He will reign for three and one-half years.” Oh that’s right none of them do it is the doctrine of men that says that.

Which of those verses say “The Antichrist, during his reign, will deceive the majority of people living on the Earth at the time into believing he is God. However, he will persecute those who refuse to worship him because they are able to see through his delusion” Oh that’s right none of them do. It is the doctrine of men that says that.

Which of those verses say “Jesus Christ will return to Earth at the end of the three and one-half year reign of the Antichrist, destroying Satan's kingdom. The resurrection of the just will occur at that time”? Oh that’s right none of them do it is the doctrine of men that says this.

LOL, the guy that is continually accusing others of following the doctrines of men, presents the doctrine of men as his reasoning. How sad, how very sad!

 

[veteran]

And yet not one of those points can be supported by the only 4 verses in Scripture that use the term antichrist or antichrists. Here are those 4 verses maybe you could show us which of those verses support the points made by the men you quote.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Which of those verses say “Satan will appear as a man in the person of the Antichrist because he seeks to reign as king over mankind and desires to focus the worship of God on himself”? oh that’s right none of them do.

Which of those verses say “The Antichrist will be a Jew, and will achieve his stated objectives by being accepted as the Christ, the messianic king of the Jews, taking his seat in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, pretending to be God Himself, and thereby becoming the 'abomination of desolation' spoken of by the prophet Daniel and mentioned also by Jesus (Daniel 12:11, Matthew 24:15).”? Oh that’s right none of them do it is the doctrine of men that says that. In fact if we accept what Scripture says the abomination is an it that is standing is not a he that sitteth. .
Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
2Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not
come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be
revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Which of those verses say “The Antichrist is the 'little horn' of the fourth beast mentioned in Daniel 7. He will slay three of the other horns and reign as an eighth with the remaining seven (Hippolytus explains that those three are the rulers of Egypt, Libya, and Ethiopia).” That’s right none do. Are you changing your mind haven’t you said in multiple posts that the the antichrist is a beast? So which is it do you believe the antichrist is a beast or the little horn? Which do you believe?

Which of those verses say “The Antichrist will achieve his objectives in the middle of the final 7-year period of this age. At that time he will be proclaimed the messianic king of the Jews and will take his seat as God in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. He will reign for three and one-half years.” Oh that’s right none of them do it is the doctrine of men that says that.

Which of those verses say “The Antichrist, during his reign, will deceive the majority of people living on the Earth at the time into believing he is God. However, he will persecute those who refuse to worship him because they are able to see through his delusion” Oh that’s right none of them do. It is the doctrine of men that says that.

Which of those verses say “Jesus Christ will return to Earth at the end of the three and one-half year reign of the Antichrist, destroying Satan's kingdom. The resurrection of the just will occur at that time”? Oh that’s right none of them do it is the doctrine of men that says this.

LOL, the guy that is continually accusing others of following the doctrines of men, presents the doctrine of men as his reasoning. How sad, how very sad!

What you're doing, and don't appear to realize, is rejection of relevant Scripture witness about a coming antichrist-pseudo-Christ in favor of supporting a doctrine of men based soley... on those verses that have the word "antichrist" in them.

 

[Ridgerunner]

What you're doing, and don't appear to realize, is rejection of relevant Scripture witness about a coming antichrist-pseudo-Christ in favor of supporting a doctrine of men based soley... on those verses that have the word "antichrist" in them.

What I am doing is basing my beliefs about antichrists on the only 4 verses in Scripture that use the term.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

My belief is that antichrist is a spirit or individual that denies Christ/God and that there are many that have been in the world since John wrote the verses. You on the other hand are jumping thorugh hoops to try and make Scripture fit your doctrine. Those who seek truth change their doctrine to fit Scripture. Those who don't jump through hoops to make Scripture fit their doctrine.

"God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not dependent on how artfully he can defend his doctrines, but on his willingness to seek out and follow the truth." - Ellis Skolfield.


As you are led friend, as you are led!!

 

[veteran]

What I am doing is basing my beliefs about antichrists on the only 4 verses in Scripture that use the term.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

My belief is that antichrist is a spirit or individual that denies Christ/God and that there are many that have been in the world since John wrote the verses. You on the other hand are jumping thorugh hoops to try and make Scripture fit your doctrine. Those who seek truth change their doctrine to fit Scripture. Those who don't jump through hoops to make Scripture fit their doctrine.

"God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not dependent on how artfully he can defend his doctrines, but on his willingness to seek out and follow the truth." - Ellis Skolfield.


As you are led friend, as you are led!!

There is a "spirit of antichrist" and there's also the one it originates from, i.e., the devil himself. The devil is 'the antichrist', and the reason is because he first rebelled against God by wanting to be... God, and worshipped as God.


Isa 14:12-15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
(KJV)

 

[Ridgerunner]

There is a "spirit of antichrist" and there's also the one it originates from, i.e., the devil himself. The devil is 'the antichrist', and the reason is because he first rebelled against God by wanting to be... God, and worshipped as God.


Isa 14:12-15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
(KJV)

While it is true that there is a spirit of antichrist, individual people can also be antichrist.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
As 2John1:7 clearly shows there are many deceivers who deny Christ making all of them an antichrist. We cannot limit the term to just satan. Nor do any of the 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists do so.

As I have demonstrated multiple times, my belief that there have been many antichrists (those who deny Christ/God) since John wrote the verses is Scripturally sound and based on what the only 4 verses that use the term actually tell us.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

If you want to believe that because John said “as ye have heard antichrist shall come” means there is a single individual one in the end times even though he also told us “this is that spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard should come; and even now already is it in the world” that is your choice. Go ahead keep looking over your shoulder for the antichrist. Just don't get so busy doing so that you fail to recognize that there are already over a billion antichrists in today's world alone, not counting past or future antichrists.
As you are led friend, as you are led!

 

[veteran]

While it is true that there is a spirit of antichrist, individual people can also be antichrist.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
As 2John1:7 clearly shows there are many deceivers who deny Christ making all of them an antichrist. We cannot limit the term to just satan. Nor do any of the 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists do so.

As I have demonstrated multiple times, my belief that there have been many antichrists (those who deny Christ/God) since John wrote the verses is Scripturally sound and based on what the only 4 verses that use the term actually tell us.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

If you want to believe that because John said “as ye have heard antichrist shall come” means there is a single individual one in the end times even though he also told us “this is that spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard should come; and even now already is it in the world” that is your choice. Go ahead keep looking over your shoulder for the antichrist. Just don't get so busy doing so that you fail to recognize that there are already over a billion antichrists in today's world alone, not counting past or future antichrists.
As you are led friend, as you are led!

It's not something I necessarily 'want' to believe, it's a Truth in God's Word I'm forced to accept, because it was a subject first written of all the way back in the Old Testament Books. If you had studied the Old Testament Books about it you probably would have understood what I was talking about with Paul's "mystery of iniquity" concerning John's "many antichrists" idea. Paul was speaking of the same idea, yet Paul was specific about a particular false one coming to sit in the temple of God, and exalting himself over all that is called God, or that is worshipped. John is in agreement with Paul on that singular false one too, which is why he mentioned they had already heard that "antichrist" shall come.

The easiest way to sum all that up, is that "antichrist" word is only another title for the ultimate enemy of Christ Jesus, and that primary enemy is of course Satan himself. And the many enemies of Christ are Satan's servants that follow him.

 

[Believerway]

@Marta...
It seems that as we look at some of these post made one could be confused on so many variations on the interpretation of scripture. I think the most important thing to remember is that we do not lean unto our own understanding, and when someone is giving their understanding of the scriptures that we need to verify what is being said by the Word of God.
And after reading through these posts and verifying them with scripture, it is in my opinion that I believe that Ridgerunner is hot on the trail.

In Christ, Believerway

 

[Ridgerunner]

It's not something I necessarily 'want' to believe, it's a Truth in God's Word I'm forced to accept, because it was a subject first written of all the way back in the Old Testament Books. If you had studied the Old Testament Books about it you probably would have understood what I was talking about with Paul's "mystery of iniquity" concerning John's "many antichrists" idea.It's not something I necessarily 'want' to believe, it's a Truth in God's Word I'm forced to accept, because it was a subject first written of all the way back in the Old Testament Books. If you had studied the Old Testament Books about it you probably would have understood what I was talking about with Paul's "mystery of iniquity" concerning John's "many antichrists" idea.

While your opinion is interesting it is nothing more then a doctrine built in the absence of sound hermeneutics.

Paul was speaking of the same idea, yet Paul was specific about a particular false one coming to sit in the temple of God, and exalting himself over all that is called God, or that is worshipped. John is in agreement with Paul on that singular false one too, which is why he mentioned they had already heard that "antichrist" shall come.

Maybe according to the faulty interpretation you espouse.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Wouldn’t one who is claiming to be Christ demand that the world worship him? Wouldn’t he also attempt to show the world that he is God? Yet nothing in those verses suggests that the man of sin does either of those. So why do you assume this individual is some kind of world leader?

You can continue to use 1John2:18 in a poor attempt to justify that there will be a singular end time antichrist, but doing so requires that you ignore the FACT That John told us exactly who it was they heard should come when he said “this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard should come,; and even now already is it in the world.

The easiest way to sum all that up, is that "antichrist" word is only another title for the ultimate enemy of Christ Jesus, and that primary enemy is of course Satan himself. And the many enemies of Christ are Satan's servants that follow him.

Maybe per your interpretation but as Scripture clearly shows antichrist is a spirit or individual that denies Christ and there are many that have been in the world since John wrote the verses.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to show us which one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists states “antichrist title word is only another title for the ultimate enemy of Christ Jesus, and that enemy is of course Satan.” Oh that’s right you can’t because Scripture does not state that. One must rely on man’s definitions and doctrines in order to promote that fallacy.
"God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not dependent on how artfully he can defend his doctrines, but on his willingness to seek out and follow the truth." - Ellis Skolfield.
My friemd if you would put a fraction of the effort into understanding the views others hold as you do defending your doctrine you might be surprised by the result.

As you are led friend, as you are led

 

[veteran]

[/color]
While your opinion is interesting it is nothing more then a doctrine built in the absence of sound hermeneutics.

Your overuse of that "absence of sound hermeneutics" phrase is starting to become a joke; especially with how you refuse to connect relevant Scripture about the subject and keep quoting from 1 John. The old false ploy of saying the same thing over and over again in hope people will begin to believe it just ain't gonna' work.

Maybe according to the faulty interpretation you espouse.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Wouldn’t one who is claiming to be Christ demand that the world worship him? Wouldn’t he also attempt to show the world that he is God? Yet nothing in those verses suggests that the man of sin does either of those. So why do you assume this individual is some kind of world leader?

There you quote Paul specifically revealing how that particular false one is going to sit in God's temple and exalt himself above all that is worshipped, or called God, and show that he is God, and then flat deny Paul said that!?! You're in great confusion brother. But just one Scripture witness isn't enough per God's Way of Truth. That's why our Lord Jesus also... gave that same Warning in Rev.13:11 forward about the "another beast", a 2nd beast that you apparently deny the Scripture about also! And that's not even to mention Jesus' warning of a particular false one in the Matt.24:23-26 example!

You even reveal how you can't grasp how Paul's warning of the false one in 2 Thess.2:3-4 is a DIRECT example of what Satan said he was going to do, not to mention what Satan did at his first rebellion against God per Ezek.28 as that anointed cherub.

You can continue to use 1John2:18 in a poor attempt to justify that there will be a singular end time antichrist, but doing so requires that you ignore the FACT That John told us exactly who it was they heard should come when he said “this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard should come,; and even now already is it in the world.

You're obviously at a loss in real Scripture study, and have been taught to follow a tradition of men by rote. All it's done for you is to turn you into one of their robots, regurgitating what they've taught you to believe. You... really can receive God's Truth independent of those men IF you truly want it. All you need do is pray to The Father through His Son for it, and then... do disciplined Bible study... for yourself!

@Marta...
It seems that as we look at some of these post made one could be confused on so many variations on the interpretation of scripture. I think the most important thing to remember is that we do not lean unto our own understanding, and when someone is giving their understanding of the scriptures that we need to verify what is being said by the Word of God.
And after reading through these posts and verifying them with scripture, it is in my opinion that I believe that Ridgerunner is hot on the trail.

In Christ, Believerway

That's your opinion only, and simply suggests you're just as deceived as he is about the coming of a singular antichrist by the same doctrines of men he's on. But maybe you can provide Scripture proof other than 1 John that he only wants to sit upon?

 

[Ridgerunner]

[/color]

Your overuse of that "absence of sound hermeneutics" phrase is starting to become a joke; especially with how you refuse to connect relevant Scripture about the subject and keep quoting from 1 John. The old false ploy of saying the same thing over and over again in hope people will begin to believe it just ain't gonna' work.

Using sound hermeneutic principles is required if one wants to properly understand the prophetic Scriptures. Guess work theology has done much damage to Christianity. Look at the failed predictions of those who have used guess work theology to predict the future based on their understanding of prophecy, have they helped or hurt Christianity? Need an example? How about Edgar Whisenant and his book 88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be In 88. (and let’s not forget his failed predictions for 1989, 1993, 1994 and 1997) When his predictions failed did it help Christianity or did it just make Christians look foolish and superstitious? Need another example? How about something a little more recent like Harold Camping? Did his predictions help Christianity or once again did it hurt the testimony of Christians by making them look like superstitious clowns? Maybe we should quit trying to use prophecy to predict the future and follow the advice of the 2 following scholars;
"The folly of interpreters has been to foretell times and things by this prophecy [Revelation], as if God designed to make them prophets. By this rashness they have not only exposed themselves, but brought the prophecy also into contempt. The design of God was much otherwise. He gave this and the prophecies of the Old Testament, not to gratify men's curiosities by enabling them to foreknow things, but that after they were fulfilled they might be interpreted by the event, and his own providence, not the interpreters', be then manifested thereby to the world. For the event of things predicted many ages before will then be a convincing argument that the world is governed by Providence." - Sir Isaac Newton “The Prophecies Of Daniel And The Apocalypse” pg244
“Those things of God which are now dark and obscure will hereafter be made clear, and easy to be understood. Truth is the daughter of time. Scripture prophecies will be expounded by the accomplishment of them; therefore they are given, and for that expectation they are reserved. Therefore they are told us before, that, when they do come to pass, we may believe” Matthew Henry ‘Matthew Henry Commentary On The Whole Bible” volume 4 pg 873 column 2

There you quote Paul specifically revealing how that particular false one is going to sit in God's temple and exalt himself above all that is worshipped, or called God, and show that he is God, and then flat deny Paul said that!?! You're in great confusion brother.

I never denied that Paul said that. You are once again resorting to deception by making false statements about what I said. I do disagree with your belief that Paul was referring to a physical building and not the true temple of God. Paul is the one that told us the temple of God is the body of believers (lively stones) with Christ as the cornerstone (Eph2:19-210. Paul is the one that told us the believer is the temple of God (1Cor3:16-17, and 2Cor6:16). So per Paul the temple of God is the corporate body of Christ with Christ as the cornerstone or the individual believer. So if we expect to find the man of sin we should look in the temple of God (Eph2:19-21 or 1Cor3:16-16,2Cor6:16). Considering that individuals are men (and women) I suspect Paul was referring to the corporate body as it would be hard for a man to sit inside a man, but a man could easily sit amongst other believers. Paul is also the one that told us that we (the livelly stones) do not put on incorruptibility until the last trump (1Cor15) so like it or not the lively stones are corruptible and as a result corruption can enter the temple. Remember Christ Himself declared the Jews temple desolate, rebuilding it won’t change that. So even if they rebuild it do you really believe a desolate building will be the temple of God? Don’t we have a New Temple and a New Covenant?
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high
priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
In addition let’s not forget Paul does not tell us the man of ssin is an endtime antichrist, nor does he say that he shows the world he is God. He does tell us he shows himself that he is God. Wouldn’t one who was trying to take the place attempt to convince the world he is God?

But just one Scripture witness isn't enough per God's Way of Truth. That's why our Lord Jesus also... gave that same Warning in Rev.13:11 forward about the "another beast", a 2nd beast that you apparently deny the Scripture about also! And that's not even to mention Jesus' warning of a particular false one in the Matt.24:23-26 example!

While you claim that the man of sin, the beast from Rev13:11 and the false one from Mat24 are the same entity you have failed to prove that. You have not provide one single verse that actually states a beast is the antichrist, or the man of sin etc… All you have done is quote the verse and insist they are the same entity. so as the old saying goes it is time for you to put up or shut up, use Scripture, not doctrine to prove it. You made the claim the burden of proof lies on you! On the other hand I have provided a verse that actually tells us beasts are kingdoms so my belief that a beast is a kingdom is based on Scripture. I have provided verses that positively prove that antichrist is a spirit or person that denis Christ/God and there have been many since John wrote the verses. As for as false ones go there have been many who claimed to be Christ, but as we all know there is only one true Christ. Once agin if you insist the false Christ from Mat24:23-26 is the mman of sin or the beast from Rev13:11 then as the old saying goes it's time for you to put up or shut up. Provide Scripture that proves it quoting the verses only shows us that you believe they are the same entity. Prove it with Scripture, not doctrine. You made the claim the burden of proof lies on you!

.You're obviously at a loss in real Scripture study, and have been taught to follow a tradition of men by rote. All it's done for you is to turn you into one of their robots, regurgitating what they've taught you to believe. You... really can receive God's Truth independent of those men IF you truly want it. All you need do is pray to The Father through His Son for it, and then... do disciplined Bible study... for yourself!

Once again may I remind you that 1John2:18, 1John2:22, 1John4:3 and 1John2;7 actually says antichrist is a spirit or individual that denies Christ/God and there are many that have been in the world since John wrote the verses. I have shown that my belief that in prophecy a beast is a kingdom is based on the inspired word of God actually telling us beasts are kingdoms (Dan7:23) and history prove God’s word true. I have shown Scripture that proves we have a new temple (Hebrews8:1-2) and that temple per the inspired word Of God delivered through Paul (who told us the man of sin sits in the temple of God) is the corporate body of believers (Eph2:19-21). So as we can all clearly see I have used Scripture to base my beliefs on. You on the other hand have failed to use Scripture to prove that all the entities you claim are the same entity, but instead have relied on doctrinally based arguments. So maybe it is time for you to look in the mirror and point your accusations at yourself! Be blessed veteran as you are led my friend as you are led!

 

[Believerway]

That's your opinion only, and simply suggests you're just as deceived as he is about the coming of a singular antichrist by the same doctrines of men he's on. But maybe you can provide Scripture proof other than 1 John that he only wants to sit upon?

What more proof does one need than the Word of God. Can understanding come from just one verse? Of course! I believe that John is showing the believer the error that had already entered the church and was putting to rest this heresy that was being said amongst the brethern by saying,
1 Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
And then goes on and gives them the definition of what antichrist truly is by saying,
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

This man made doctrine that entered then is alive today as you are proof of that and even was I. You tend to point a finger at me and other brethern on this site saying we are deceived and are basing our understanding on man made doctrine. Well I just have to ask you are you sure it is not you following the doctrine of men? Which I’m sure your answer will be no. Deception entered the church a long time ago and it is up to us to determine that what is being taught today is in harmony with the Word of God or the deception that entered long ago based on mans understanding of the scriptures. If you find that hard to believe then just look around at the teachings that are being taught today and how many churches have allowed corruption to enter in.

What is interesting brother is that I believed exactly the way you are believing now. And once a dear brother of mine in the Lord showed me the error of my understanding I did not immediately believe him, as a matter of fact I rebuked him. But I searched the scriptures and prayed that God would reveal the truth unto me for He had put this upon my heart. And once I was able to put away my own understanding and the doctrinal filters that I did not realize were upon eyes, the Lord revealed by his word the truth that was not built on the precepts of men. This was not easy to do because these teachings I understood had been instilled in me over many years.

There is a great thread that has been started on this site called “Food for Thought” that I think that every God loving person should read and do what is suggested. To research the doctrine they hold true to and find out whether their understanding is based on the precepts of men or based on the Word of God.

　
In Christ, Believerway
　
　
　

 

[Ridgerunner]

What is interesting brother is that I believed exactly the way you are believing now. And once a dear brother of mine in the Lord showed me the error of my understanding I did not immediately believe him, as a matter of fact I rebuked him. But I searched the scriptures and prayed that God would reveal the truth unto me for He had put this upon my heart. And once I was able to put away my own understanding and the doctrinal filters that I did not realize were upon eyes, the Lord revealed by his word the truth that was not built on the precepts of men. This was not easy to do because these teachings I understood had been instilled in me over many years.

Like you I believed the traditionally taught doctrine the churches I went to espoused. Then one day a dear brother showed me that there were many views concerning prophecy. He also proved that most were built in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles. It is a hard pill to swallow when we discover that the doctrines we have been taught might be in error. But if we truly fear making the word of God of none effect as Christ warns against in Mark7:13 we will set aside our doctrinal filters and diligently search for the truth. Sadly I suspect we live in the time when most would rather satisfy their itching ears then diligently search for the truth. Be blessed friend, and contunue your search for the truth.

 

[veteran]

What more proof does one need than the Word of God. Can understanding come from just one verse? Of course! I believe that John is showing the believer the error that had already entered the church and was putting to rest this heresy that was being said amongst the brethern by saying,
1 Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
And then goes on and gives them the definition of what antichrist truly is by saying,
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

This man made doctrine that entered then is alive today as you are proof of that and even was I. You tend to point a finger at me and other brethern on this site saying we are deceived and are basing our understanding on man made doctrine. Well I just have to ask you are you sure it is not you following the doctrine of men? Which I’m sure your answer will be no. Deception entered the church a long time ago and it is up to us to determine that what is being taught today is in harmony with the Word of God or the deception that entered long ago based on mans understanding of the scriptures. If you find that hard to believe then just look around at the teachings that are being taught today and how many churches have allowed corruption to enter in.

So the 2 Thess.2:3-4 Scripture warning of "that Wicked" coming to sit in the temple of God, exalting himself above all that is called God or that is worship, is telling a lie? And the Rev.13:11-17 Scripture about a specific false one on earth working great signs, wonders, and miracles is a lie?

The 2 Thess.2:3-12 Scripture is about the 'lie' that's coming, yet the Scripture itself is not a lie. And that's what John was covering in 1 John 2:18, both a singular 'antichrist' they already heard was to come, and also the idea of 'many antichrists' that were already at work. John's "many antichrists" phrase DOES NOT delete his singular "antichrist" subject phrase. Our Lord Jesus covered both also in Matt.24, as did Paul in 2 Thess.2, both a singular false one, and many false ones that serve the one.

What is interesting brother is that I believed exactly the way you are believing now. And once a dear brother of mine in the Lord showed me the error of my understanding I did not immediately believe him, as a matter of fact I rebuked him. But I searched the scriptures and prayed that God would reveal the truth unto me for He had put this upon my heart. And once I was able to put away my own understanding and the doctrinal filters that I did not realize were upon eyes, the Lord revealed by his word the truth that was not built on the precepts of men. This was not easy to do because these teachings I understood had been instilled in me over many years.

You really don't know what I believe from Scripture. You'd first have to listen to understand what I'm saying in order to know what I believe. And that stuff of, "I used to believe that, but...", is an old cliche that doesn't really work. What works is getting into God's Word with discipline, verifying for oneself what they're being taught, instead of heeding doctrines of men because of popularity. The early Church never denied that John meant a particular 'antichrist' individual in the 1 John 2:18 Scripture. Men's doctrine of denying it only began to be a pop Church doctrine among some Churches around the 17th-18th centuries.

Using sound hermeneutic principles is required if one wants to properly understand the prophetic Scriptures. Guess work theology has done much damage to Christianity. Look at the failed predictions of those who have used guess work theology to predict the future based on their understanding of prophecy, have they helped or hurt Christianity? Need an example?

So now, according to your view, the early Church fathers, like Tertullian, were using guesswork about 'antichrist' involving a specific person? The only guesswork they used was in speculating about the time of the antichrist's appearance. They held no doubt about a singular false one as the coming antichrist...

Tertullian (155–222) “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now hinders must hinder, until he be taken out of the way.” What obstacle is there but the Roman state, the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist upon (its own ruins)? “ – Tertullian On the Resurrection of the Flesh chapter 24


Cyril of Jerusalem (315–386): "There shall arise, at the same time, ten kingdoms of the Romans at different places, indeed, the reigning all of them at the same time. After them, the eleventh will be antichrist, who, through magical wickedness, will seize the power of the Romans."


Cyril understood the coming antichrist to be the "little horn" of Daniel, and the beast king of Rev.17 that the ten kings will rule with.

St Cyril of Jerusalem 315 - 386 AD​

"And after these shall arise antichrist and having by the signs and lying wonders of his magical deceit, beguiled the Jews as though he were the expected Christ, he shall afterwards characterize himself by all kinds of excesses of cruelty and lawlessness and he shall perpetrate such things for 3 years and 6 months​

"Antichrist will exceed in malice, perversity, lust, wickedness, impiety, and ruthlessness and barbarity all men that have ever disgraced human nature. Hence St. Paul emphatically calls him `the man of sin the son of perdition, the wicked one, whose birth and coming is through the operation of Satan, in all manner of seduction and iniquity.' (2 Thess., 2). Through his great power, deceit and malice he shall succeed in decoying or forcing to his worship two thirds of mankind; the remaining third part of men will continue true to the faith and worship of Jesus Christ most steadfastly. But in his satanic rage and fury, Antichrist will persecute these brave and devout Christians during three years and a half, and torture them with such an extremity of barbarity, with all the old and newly invented instruments of pain, as to exceed all past persecutors of the Church combined. He will oblige all his followers to bear impressed upon their foreheads or right hands the mark of the Beast and will starve to death all those who refuse to receive it." (St. Cyril of Jerusalem)

"This one shall seize the power of the Roman Empire and shall falsely style himself Christ. By the name Christ he shall deceive the Jews who are expecting the anointed and he shall seduce the Gentiles by his magical illusions." (Cyril of Jerusalem).


St. Irenaeus -
"He shall sit in the Temple of God as if he were Christ, and leading astray those who worship him For when he is come, and of his own accord concentrates in his own person the apostasy, and accomplishes whatever he shall do according to his own will and choice, sitting also in the Temple of God so that his dupes may adore him as the Christ..."

"By means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist it is shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that although a mere slave. he wishes to be proclaimed as a king.� For he being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, not as a legitimate king obedient to God but as an impious, unjust, and lawless one; as an iniquitous and murderous apostate; as a robber, concentrating in himself a satanic apostasy, and setting aside idols to persuade men that he himself is God" (Irenaeus)


Hippolytus (disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of Apostle John) - "And under this was signified none other than Antichrist, who is also himself to raise the kingdom of the Jews. He says that three horns are plucked up by the root by him, viz., the three kings of Egypt, and Libya, and Ethiopia, whom he cuts off in the array of battle. And he, after gaining terrible power over all, being nevertheless a tyrant, shall stir up tribulation and persecution against men, exalting himself against them"

Were these early servants of Christ deceived by their speaking of antichrist in the singular tense about a certain person? I think not!

I never denied that Paul said that. You are once again resorting to deception by making false statements about what I said. I do disagree with your belief that Paul was referring to a physical building and not the true temple of God. Paul is the one that told us the temple of God is the body of believers (lively stones) with Christ as the cornerstone (Eph2:19-210. Paul is the one that told us the believer is the temple of God (1Cor3:16-17, and 2Cor6:16). So per Paul the temple of God is the corporate body of Christ with Christ as the cornerstone or the individual believer. So if we expect to find the man of sin we should look in the temple of God (Eph2:19-21 or 1Cor3:16-16,2Cor6:16). Considering that individuals are men (and women) I suspect Paul was referring to the corporate body as it would be hard for a man to sit inside a man, but a man could easily sit amongst other believers. Paul is also the one that told us that we (the livelly stones) do not put on incorruptibility until the last trump (1Cor15) so like it or not the lively stones are corruptible and as a result corruption can enter the temple. Remember Christ Himself declared the Jews temple desolate, rebuilding it won’t change that. So even if they rebuild it do you really believe a desolate building will be the temple of God? Don’t we have a New Temple and a New Covenant?

Sorry, I just can pass that line of reasoning up as anything other than gross deception of what Paul's subject was there. It's not difficult to go back and read what the early Church fathers stated about antichrist and that temple Paul mentioned...

Irenaeus -
"But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months and will sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire" (Against Heresies., 5:30:4).


Hippolytus -
"Now as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of his royalty and glory, in the same way have the scriptures also beforehand spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion. Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Savior was manifested as a lamb, so he too in like manner will appear as a lamb without; within he is a wolf. The Savior came into the world in the circumcision [i.e., the Jewish race], and he will come in the same manner. . . . The Savior raised up and showed his holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem" (The Antichrist 6[A.D. 200])


Hippolytus -
"[W]e find it written regarding Antichrist . . . ‘Dan is a lion’s whelp, and he shall leap from Bashan’ [Deut. 33:22]. But that no one may err by supposing that this is said of the Savior, let him attend carefully to the matter. Dan, he says, is a lion’s whelp. And in naming the tribe of Dan, he declared clearly the tribe from which Antichrist is destined to spring. For as Christ springs from the tribe of Judah, so Antichrist is to spring from the tribe of Dan. And that the case stands thus, we see also from the words of Jacob: ‘Let Dan be a serpent, lying upon the ground, biting the horse’s heel’ [Gen. 49:17]. What then is meant by the serpent but Antichrist, that deceiver who is mentioned in Genesis [Gen. 3:1], who deceived Eve and supplanted Adam? . . . t is in reality out of the tribe of Dan, then, that tyrant and king, that dread judge, that son of the devil, is destined to spring and arise" (ibid., 14).


Hippolytus -
"Above all, moreover, he will love the nation of the Jews. And with all these [Jews] he will work signs and terrible wonders, false wonders and not true, in order to deceive his impious equals. . . . And after that he will build the temple in Jerusalem and will restore it again speedily and give it over to the Jews" (Discourse on the End of the World, 23-25 [A.D. 217]).



Tertullian -
"[T]he man of sin, the son of perdition, who must first be revealed before the Lord comes, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped; and who is to sit in the temple of God and boast himself as being God. . . . According indeed to our view, he is Antichrist; as it is taught us in both the ancient and the new prophecies, and by the apostle John, who says that ‘already many false prophets have gone out into the world,’ the forerunners of Antichrist, who deny that Christ is come in the flesh, and do not acknowledge Jesus, meaning in God the Creator" (Against Marcion 5:16 [A.D. 210]).

 

[Ridgerunner]

Tertullian [/b](155–222) “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now hinders must hinder, until he be taken out of the way.” What obstacle is there but the Roman state, the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist upon (its own ruins)? “ – Tertullian On the Resurrection of the Flesh chapter 24


Cyril of Jerusalem (315–386): "There shall arise, at the same time, ten kingdoms of the Romans at different places, indeed, the reigning all of them at the same time. After them, the eleventh will be antichrist, who, through magical wickedness, will seize the power of the Romans."


Cyril understood the coming antichrist to be the "little horn" of Daniel, and the beast king of Rev.17 that the ten kings will rule with.

St Cyril of Jerusalem 315 - 386 AD​

"And after these shall arise antichrist and having by the signs and lying wonders of his magical deceit, beguiled the Jews as though he were the expected Christ, he shall afterwards characterize himself by all kinds of excesses of cruelty and lawlessness and he shall perpetrate such things for 3 years and 6 months​

"Antichrist will exceed in malice, perversity, lust, wickedness, impiety, and ruthlessness and barbarity all men that have ever disgraced human nature. Hence St. Paul emphatically calls him `the man of sin the son of perdition, the wicked one, whose birth and coming is through the operation of Satan, in all manner of seduction and iniquity.' (2 Thess., 2). Through his great power, deceit and malice he shall succeed in decoying or forcing to his worship two thirds of mankind; the remaining third part of men will continue true to the faith and worship of Jesus Christ most steadfastly. But in his satanic rage and fury, Antichrist will persecute these brave and devout Christians during three years and a half, and torture them with such an extremity of barbarity, with all the old and newly invented instruments of pain, as to exceed all past persecutors of the Church combined. He will oblige all his followers to bear impressed upon their foreheads or right hands the mark of the Beast and will starve to death all those who refuse to receive it." (St. Cyril of Jerusalem)

"This one shall seize the power of the Roman Empire and shall falsely style himself Christ. By the name Christ he shall deceive the Jews who are expecting the anointed and he shall seduce the Gentiles by his magical illusions." (Cyril of Jerusalem).

St. Irenaeus -
"He shall sit in the Temple of God as if he were Christ, and leading astray those who worship him For when he is come, and of his own accord concentrates in his own person the apostasy, and accomplishes whatever he shall do according to his own will and choice, sitting also in the Temple of God so that his dupes may adore him as the Christ..."

"By means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist it is shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that although a mere slave. he wishes to be proclaimed as a king.� For he being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, not as a legitimate king obedient to God but as an impious, unjust, and lawless one; as an iniquitous and murderous apostate; as a robber, concentrating in himself a satanic apostasy, and setting aside idols to persuade men that he himself is God" (Irenaeus)

Hippolytus (disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of Apostle John) - "And under this was signified none other than Antichrist, who is also himself to raise the kingdom of the Jews. He says that three horns are plucked up by the root by him, viz., the three kings of Egypt, and Libya, and Ethiopia, whom he cuts off in the array of battle. And he, after gaining terrible power over all, being nevertheless a tyrant, shall stir up tribulation and persecution against men, exalting himself against them"

Were these early servants of Christ deceived by their speaking of antichrist in the singular tense about a certain person? I think not!

Sorry, I just can pass that line of reasoning up as anything other than gross deception of what Paul's subject was there. It's not difficult to go back and read what the early Church fathers stated about antichrist and that temple Paul mentioned...

Irenaeus -
"But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months and will sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire" (Against Heresies., 5:30:4).

Hippolytus -
"Now as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of his royalty and glory, in the same way have the scriptures also beforehand spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion. Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Savior was manifested as a lamb, so he too in like manner will appear as a lamb without; within he is a wolf. The Savior came into the world in the circumcision [i.e., the Jewish race], and he will come in the same manner. . . . The Savior raised up and showed his holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem" (The Antichrist 6[A.D. 200])
Hippolytus -
"[W]e find it written regarding Antichrist . . . ‘Dan is a lion’s whelp, and he shall leap from Bashan’ [Deut. 33:22]. But that no one may err by supposing that this is said of the Savior, let him attend carefully to the matter. Dan, he says, is a lion’s whelp. And in naming the tribe of Dan, he declared clearly the tribe from which Antichrist is destined to spring. For as Christ springs from the tribe of Judah, so Antichrist is to spring from the tribe of Dan. And that the case stands thus, we see also from the words of Jacob: ‘Let Dan be a serpent, lying upon the ground, biting the horse’s heel’ [Gen. 49:17]. What then is meant by the serpent but Antichrist, that deceiver who is mentioned in Genesis [Gen. 3:1], who deceived Eve and supplanted Adam? . . . t is in reality out of the tribe of Dan, then, that tyrant and king, that dread judge, that son of the devil, is destined to spring and arise" (ibid., 14).

Hippolytus -
"Above all, moreover, he will love the nation of the Jews. And with all these [Jews] he will work signs and terrible wonders, false wonders and not true, in order to deceive his impious equals. . . . And after that he will build the temple in Jerusalem and will restore it again speedily and give it over to the Jews" (Discourse on the End of the World, 23-25 [A.D. 217]).

Tertullian -
"[T]he man of sin, the son of perdition, who must first be revealed before the Lord comes, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped; and who is to sit in the temple of God and boast himself as being God. . . . According indeed to our view, he is Antichrist; as it is taught us in both the ancient and the new prophecies, and by the apostle John, who says that ‘already many false prophets have gone out into the world,’ the forerunners of Antichrist, who deny that Christ is come in the flesh, and do not acknowledge Jesus, meaning in God the Creator" (Against Marcion 5:16 [A.D. 210]).

As I have demonstrated many times before my belief that antichrist or antichrist is a spirit or anyone that denies Christ/God and there are many that have existed since John wrote the verses. As I have shown before John told us exactly who what to expect when he said “this is that spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard should come; and even now already is it in the world. If it was already in the world it isn’t still future.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist

So as we can all see my belief is based on what Scripture actually states.
You on the other hand have once again resorted to doctrinally based arguments using what man has taught instead of Scripture. And yet none of those views can be supported by the only 4 verse that use the term antichrist or antichrists as shown by the verses quoted above. If you are going to insist the man of sin is a singular end time antichrist you have failed to use Scripture to support that belief. LOL and all this from the one who said:
From post 59 in this thread,

But you'd rather listen to the doctrines of men instead, and all you can do is to fall back on what they've taught you,

From post 70 of this thread

You're obviously at a loss in real Scripture study, and have been taught to follow a tradition of men by rote. All it's done for you is to turn you into one of their robots, regurgitating what they've taught you to believe. You... really can receive God's Truth independent of those men IF you truly want it. All you need do is pray to The Father through His Son for it, and then... do disciplined Bible study... for yourself!

Looks like maybe it is time you look in the mirror point your accusing finger at the one you see and follow your own advice.

From the online merriam-Webster dictionary:
Definition of HYPOCRITE
1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

I believe we are finished. As you are led friend, as you are led!!

 

[veteran]

As I have demonstrated many times before my belief that antichrist or antichrist is a spirit or anyone that denies Christ/God and there are many that have existed since John wrote the verses. As I have shown before John told us exactly who what to expect when he said “this is that spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard should come; and even now already is it in the world. If it was already in the world it isn’t still future.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist

So as we can all see my belief is based on what Scripture actually states.
You on the other hand have once again resorted to doctrinally based arguments using what man has taught instead of Scripture. And yet none of those views can be supported by the only 4 verse that use the term antichrist or antichrists as shown by the verses quoted above. If you are going to insist the man of sin is a singular end time antichrist you have failed to use Scripture to support that belief. LOL and all this from the one who said:
From post 59 in this thread,

From post 70 of this thread


Looks like maybe it is time you look in the mirror point your accusing finger at the one you see and follow your own advice.

From the online merriam-Webster dictionary:
Definition of HYPOCRITE
1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

I believe we are finished. As you are led friend, as you are led!!

You still continue to sound like a mimicing parrot, only declaring the antichrist's servants who follow him and his spirit, while totally denying the singular antichrist that is coming as written, and also denying a singular antichrist to come in contradiction to what the early Church fathers understood.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You still continue to sound like a mimicing parrot, only declaring the antichrist's servants who follow him and his spirit, while totally denying the singular antichrist that is coming as written, and also denying a singular antichrist to come in contradiction to what the early Church fathers understood.

Doesn't Scripture tell us that antichrist is a spirit or anyone that Denies Christ/God and that there are many that have been in this world since John wrote the verses? Doesn't John tell ust that "this is that spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard should come and even now already is it in the world"? (Didn't the KJV translators add spirit to that verse?) Yet you insist this isn’t the one he was referring to when he said "as ye have heard antichrist shall come". If that wasn't the one he was referring to then maybe you could show us what antichrist they heard should come he was referring to!

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

As we can all see my belief is firmly rooted in Scripture. Unlike you I do not need to resort to man’s definition of anti which says instead of nor do I need to resort to the writings of anyone or anything other then Scripture to support my view. But if you are comfortable using mans definition of anti which says instead of and resorting to the doctrines of men to support your views over what Scripture actually says. Then go ahead continue with your insults and continue accusing me of following mans doctrine. We can all see who it really is that is using mans doctrines and the definitions men provide to support their view. It is the one so busy a pointing a finger at others he fails to realize three of his own fingers are pointing back at himself. As you are led friend, as you are led!

 

[veteran]

Doesn't Scripture tell us that antichrist is a spirit or anyone that Denies Christ/God and that there are many that have been in this world since John wrote the verses? Doesn't John tell ust that "this is that spirit of antichrist whereof ye have heard should come and even now already is it in the world"? (Didn't the KJV translators add spirit to that verse?) Yet you insist this isn’t the one he was referring to when he said "as ye have heard antichrist shall come". If that wasn't the one he was referring to then maybe you could show us what antichrist they heard should come he was referring to!

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

As we can all see my belief is firmly rooted in Scripture. Unlike you I do not need to resort to man’s definition of anti which says instead of nor do I need to resort to the writings of anyone or anything other then Scripture to support my view. But if you are comfortable using mans definition of anti which says instead of and resorting to the doctrines of men to support your views over what Scripture actually says. Then go ahead continue with your insults and continue accusing me of following mans doctrine. We can all see who it really is that is using mans doctrines and the definitions men provide to support their view. It is the one so busy a pointing a finger at others he fails to realize three of his own fingers are pointing back at himself. As you are led friend, as you are led!

Satan has a spirit.

Let's look again at one of the early Church fathers said about the identity of the antichrist...

Tertullian -
"[T]he man of sin, the son of perdition, who must first be revealed before the Lord comes, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped; and who is to sit in the temple of God and boast himself as being God. . . . According indeed to our view, he is Antichrist; as it is taught us in both the ancient and the new prophecies, and by the apostle John, who says that ‘already many false prophets have gone out into the world,’ the forerunners of Antichrist, who deny that Christ is come in the flesh, and do not acknowledge Jesus, meaning in God the Creator" (Against Marcion 5:16 [A.D. 210]).

"...According indeed to our view, he is Antichrist; as it is taught us in both the ancient and the new prophecies..."

What's that about?

Tertullian notes the coming of the antichrist was a prophecy also in the "ancient" prophecies, his referring to the Old Testament prophets. Where was that written? In the Book of Daniel especially, about the "little horn", the "vial person", etc.

"... and by the apostle John, who says that ‘already many false prophets have gone out into the world,’ the forerunners of Antichrist,..."

Tertullian notes the many false prophets John declared are the "forerunners of Antichrist". Forerunners are those who come prior... to the main one, the Antichrist.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Satan has a spirit.

Let's look again at one of the early Church fathers said about the identity of the antichrist...

Tertullian -
"[T]he man of sin, the son of perdition, who must first be revealed before the Lord comes, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped; and who is to sit in the temple of God and boast himself as being God. . . . According indeed to our view, he is Antichrist; as it is taught us in both the ancient and the new prophecies, and by the apostle John, who says that ‘already many false prophets have gone out into the world,’ the forerunners of Antichrist, who deny that Christ is come in the flesh, and do not acknowledge Jesus, meaning in God the Creator" (Against Marcion 5:16 [A.D. 210]).

"...According indeed to our view, he is Antichrist; as it is taught us in both the ancient and the new prophecies..."

What's that about?

Tertullian notes the coming of the antichrist was a prophecy also in the "ancient" prophecies, his referring to the Old Testament prophets. Where was that written? In the Book of Daniel especially, about the "little horn", the "vial person", etc.

"... and by the apostle John, who says that ‘already many false prophets have gone out into the world,’ the forerunners of Antichrist,..."

Tertullian notes the many false prophets John declared are the "forerunners of Antichrist". Forerunners are those who come prior... to the main one, the Antichrist.

So now the man who said in post 59

But you'd rather listen to the doctrines of men instead, and all you can do is to fall back on what they've taught you,

and this in post 70

You're obviously at a loss in real Scripture study, and have been taught to follow a tradition of men by rote. All it's done for you is to turn you into one of their robots, regurgitating what they've taught you to believe. You... really can receive God's Truth independent of those men IF you truly want it. All you need do is pray to The Father through His Son for it, and then... do disciplined Bible study... for yourself!

Isn’t it interesting how you accuse me of following the doctrines of men when I can actually show Scripture that tells us antichrist or antichrists are those who deny Christ and there are many that have been in the world since John wrote the verses, while you on the other hand do exactly what you accuse others of and quote the doctrines of men in an effort to prove your point. LOL I believe we can all see what’s going on here. As you are led friend, as you are led!!

 

[veteran]

So now the man who said in post 59

and this in post 70


Isn’t it interesting how you accuse me of following the doctrines of men when I can actually show Scripture that tells us antichrist or antichrists are those who deny Christ and there are many that have been in the world since John wrote the verses, while you on the other hand do exactly what you accuse others of and quote the doctrines of men in an effort to prove your point. LOL I believe we can all see what’s going on here. As you are led friend, as you are led!!

"There's more things in heaven and earth than in your philosophy Yago." - Shakespeare's Othello