Mark of the Beast

[veteran]

The human body produces an electrical current however subtle. I considered a micro chip such as already in use for animals and continue to include it as viable. However, consider a chip being implanted that "runs" from the current produced by the human body. It could then send a RF (radio freqquency) that could be detected from afar. The micro chips in animals do not emit RF they must be read by an instrument from close surface distance. Consider what the Bible says about those who receive the Mark of the Beast developin sores. The chips used in animals do not cause sores.

However, an RF chip that produces its own signa that can be collected from afar could easily cause sores in that area. Digital Angel out of Palm Springs florida (if I remember correctly) had developed a micro chip years ago and desires to implement it in humans. The web address is digitalangel.net

The last time I checked access to the site was not permitted for outside personel, but could be worth looking into.

It's very possible that could signify the 'mark of the beast' for buying and selling, especially as more people claim that's it.

But that's not what we as believers on Christ Jesus should be concerned with, because one will have to 'agree' to accept the mark. The Biblical pattern of history was old Babylon during the days of Daniel, when the king of Babylon setup a golden idol image of himself requiring all to bow in worship at the sound of the psalter. Daniel was delivered up when found still praying to our Heavenly Father instead.

Satan's hosts with their plan for a one-world government and a one-world religion don't want any Christian believer that will refuse to bow to their false messiah and world beast kingdom. Rev.13 specifically tells us that those who refuse the 'mark' are to be killed. And that's what we as faithful Christian believers should prepare for.

 

[tgwprophet]

The beast's mark is either in/on the hand in/on the forehead, but does not stop there. Scripture includes those that have his name or the number of his name.... Now, when above i wrote in/on I may possibly be sinning as did not Eve when asked about the fruit embellish what God said? Since the advent of chips for animals I feel in/on is validated. Son of Man claimed the social security number was also the Beast's mark, to this I would say definitely not until the beast proclaims it as such... then you should burn yours before using it for anything. Certain cultures and governments could have to endure an outcry by its citizens so great as to not allow an implanted chip. With that understanding, we can see the reasoning for alternative marks. The beast need not develop the diverse marks, but rather, merely sign a proclaim nation unifying the diverse marks already in existence.

Veteran, when you said one must agree to take the mark... that claims to be validated as to how much pressure to take the mark is acceptable. Certainly Satan will have a host of pressure points he can and will implement... With that I ask where is the ine in the sand? For one; no one will be able to buy or sell. For another; those who do not take the mark will be beheaded... And so, the pressure can be all the way to death... With pressure so great, how can it be total free will? So, where is the line in the sand? With this reasoning I arrive at the necessity for a rapture.

 

[veteran]

The beast's mark is either in/on the hand in/on the forehead, but does not stop there. Scripture includes those that have his name or the number of his name.... Now, when above i wrote in/on I may possibly be sinning as did not Eve when asked about the fruit embellish what God said? Since the advent of chips for animals I feel in/on is validated. Son of Man claimed the social security number was also the Beast's mark, to this I would say definitely not until the beast proclaims it as such... then you should burn yours before using it for anything. Certain cultures and governments could have to endure an outcry by its citizens so great as to not allow an implanted chip. With that understanding, we can see the reasoning for alternative marks. The beast need not develop the diverse marks, but rather, merely sign a proclaim nation unifying the diverse marks already in existence.

Veteran, when you said one must agree to take the mark... that claims to be validated as to how much pressure to take the mark is acceptable. Certainly Satan will have a host of pressure points he can and will implement... With that I ask where is the ine in the sand? For one; no one will be able to buy or sell. For another; those who do not take the mark will be beheaded... And so, the pressure can be all the way to death... With pressure so great, how can it be total free will? So, where is the line in the sand? With this reasoning I arrive at the necessity for a rapture.

You didn't really misinterpret the meaning of the 'mark' concerning it being 'in' the hand, or 'in' the forehead. The real 'mark of the beast' is in the mind, and in the hand referring to doing its works. The real mark is about being deceived and following the beast, which is why the warning of Rev.14 also includes the idea of worshipping the beast and his 'image'.

The main reason it cannot be forced upon us is because it wouldn't mean anything if given against our will. False messiah is coming in place of our Lord, and desires to be worshipped in place of God. It is going to be a time of world peace, not all out war, and thus the majority of the world will accept him as God. In Daniel we're told how craft will prosper in his hand, meaning he's coming to bail the whole world out supernaturally; chicken in every pot IF you will bow to him as God. To cement that kind of control over all things on this earth, those who bow to him will have to agree to accept his mark for buying and selling, whatever kind of mark that will be.

As of today, no SS card, no credit card, no chip, is associated with the 'direct' acceptance to bow in false worship to a false messiah, reason being, that specific false messiah has not showed up yet. It's like I said, the pattern for that for the end is from the historical Babylon pattern, that "image of beast" bowing being the very same type of event which Daniel and his fellows had to go through. The hot fiery furnace heated seven times hotter than needed even serves as an ensample for us to not fear, but stay faithful waiting for The True Christ to return.

 

[kjhughes]

Seek First Your Own Salvation, Think Not of Outwardly Things of Evil... Evil Has Lost Its Grip on The Redeemed

7/7/05 From Jesus The Christ, Our Lord and Savior - A Letter Given to Timothy, For Craig, and For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear

Question asked by Timothy, for Craig: Lord, what is the mark of the beast, as written in the book of Revelation in the Bible?


[Jesus The Christ answered] Oh Craig, why ask of your Father such things?... Instead, ask of yourself what marks have you taken. Are you clean? Where does your heart lie? With men or your Salvation? In you, I am well pleased and will be. In you, I see concern for all who dwell in need and lack. Tell them who is, and was, and will be the fulfillment they seek.

You ask of Me things that are not yet, but will be, and have already begun... I shall answer you. The mark, this mark of the beast, is this: It is a device of men, created by man, to save those who are lost so they may be found. The evil one will require this chip, to be implanted under the skin of the right hand or in their foreheads. Its production has commenced; its implantation has already begun. He shall use that, which was conceived in good, for evil and control, so no one may buy or sell unless they have accepted this device and worshipped his image.
What you seek, of the end of days, have I already given to My servant, John, written in the book, called Revelation. I now also give it to Timothy, your brother, so all those who have not read that which was given to a man who was, and is, My apostle, may hear from a man who I also call My apostle in this day and age, and ages to come.
What you have conceived of, and that which you have heard from My servant, Van Impe, is true, for modern man’s glory is in his creations... Oh does he revel in them... They are his undoing. In man’s prideful arrogance has he opened the way to the man of perdition to rule over him, with that by which he has created.




Why, oh men of the earth, do you make shackles and cast them about your own feet?...

You have become a slave of your own evil desires...



Turn to He, who holds all the keys and in whom all find freedom.


Amen.

 

[veteran]

Does our Lord Jesus also tell you what kind of car to buy, what kind of soap to use too??

 

[kjhughes]

Does our Lord Jesus also tell you what kind of car to buy, what kind of soap to use too??

Seriously???! I leave that up to my wife! :wub:

9/04 From God The Father - A Letter Given to Timothy, For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear

This I say to you, concerning the beast...

Only now has the time come, where man has made it possible for the one called sin, evil and deceit, the one full of much lying and abominable ways, to rule. For by man’s works has he now made it possible for the likes of this evil to gain control, even to accomplish all he has conceived of to do. In no times past were there such devices of men by which he could rule in this manner, or chains such as these for him to shackle as many as he will, or the means by which he can devour as many as he will. Behold, now is the time for him to cast his net over the whole world... And who can escape?! For his eye will reach far and wide, his commands carried out on a whim. Now is the time, in which he can use the works of men for his evil purpose. Even from the heavens can he watch over his evil flock, and from the heavens can he destroy all those who oppose him, with fire, brimstone and fervent heat. Even now does he watch and lie in wait for his due time, as the lion waits in the tall grass for the moment, the opportune moment, to pounce and devour his prey. He has already begun to mark his people, and eagerly do they go... To death do they go! He is a cunning one, thisevil one, for he will also come upon the world as a thief and a savior of men... But he will lead them, coax them and deceive them... And unto death will they go! And all, who will follow him and take his mark, will worship him, saying, “Who is like this man? And who knows what he knows? And who can stand against him?! Who?!... He is the one whom all have waited for. He will bring peace and prosperity to the nations.”

Many in that day will make a covenant with him...
A covenant built upon the sand, the sands of false hope and great iniquity...

They will rejoice in him, until the day his true faces are revealed.

Yet few will take notice, barely turning the head,
For they have all become adopted children of perdition.

In that day, they will be so far stuck in the mire of their sin and adultery,
With their hearts hardened, their eyes accustomed to darkness and theirs ears tuned to evil,
That they will be unable to flee from that which is about to overtake them...



Then swift destruction will I pour out upon them...

With no respite, nor hope of salvation or escape...
For their choice is made, goats branded for the slaughter...

Vessels meet for destruction.




I AM THE LORD!​

 

[tgwprophet]

Veteran wrote: " The main reason it cannot be forced upon us is because it wouldn't mean anything if given against our will. False messiah is coming in place of our Lord, and desires to be worshipped in place of God "

When you worte " it cannot be forced upon us " You automatically impose a " line in the sand " Your line in the sand infers that absolutely no imposition can occur if you do not take it. Of course, I understand you are not trying to ssay that, you can't be as.... it is one of the imposing characteristics that the Jews will not tolerate and Satan wishes to " force " them to take. So now, exactly where is your line in the sand? Also many will be be-headed for not accepting the Beast's Mark, simply because worshipping him will have as one of its descriptions... accepting the Beast's Mark. See, Veteran... I put little in the way of this " line in the sand. " So how far do you take " no force " ???

As far as the Mark being in the mind... possibly as methods of payments are already setup that one can exchange goods for digital curreny simply using one's name. As far as methods of the beast's mark..... I was implying that all of the above can be used, perhaps ... and then some.

tjhughes at the bottom of your post.. you claim you are the lord?
JLB, Did you write the Tribulation is already past? if so, you both need to visit Hitch's Mt. Get-a-Grip

Retrobyter... I agree Cain was not the fist murdrer...it was Satan. Cain was the first to murder a person's physical body, I find it hard for anyone not to know this.

There is allot of time, money and man power, and machinery, vaults and more, invested in the moving and storage of paper and coin currency form within and without any given country. It is possible to save time energy, an man power by the elimination of a physical currency system and I expect the Beast to use that understanding to eliminate currency across the globe, though Israel will not accomadate them and deny any non-currency transactions.

 

[Raeneske]

The Mark of the Beast is an understanding of prophecy, just like any other. Many verses in Revelation are repeats of other things found in the Word. Meaning - The Bible defines itself perfectly.

We know from Daniel 7:23 that a Beast is a Kingdom (4th Kingdom = 4th Beast). So, we find out what the Mark of the Kingdom is. However, the Mark and the Seal have to be looked at a bit more closely to find out where else in the Word of God, that such things are talked about.

Deuteronomy 6:4-8 - Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:[sup] [/sup]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:[sup] [/sup]And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Obediance to God, to the commands of God were to be a sign upon people's hands and the frontlets between their eyes, meaning their foreheads. The Words which God commanded the Israelites were to be bound upon their hands, and on their foreheads.

Deuteronomy 11:18 - Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

Laying up God's words in their hearts was to be a sign upon their hands, and their foreheads. Again, obediance to the requirements of God was to be a sign upon their hands and their foreheads.

Exodus 13:9,15,16 - And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the Lord's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the Lord brought thee out of Egypt. And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the Lord slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem. And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the Lord brought us forth out of Egypt.

Again, God gave a command, and obediance to the command was a sign upon the forehead, and a sign upon their hands.

The sign upon their HANDS and upon their FOREHEADS were not literal marks. Doing what they were told to do was their "Mark" of obediace.
That's how the Mark of the Beast, and God's Seal play out in the end. It is not literal, but rather shown to the world. By doing as God commands, it is a seal upon your forehead that you obey God. As doing as the Beast Power commands, it is their Mark upon one's forehead and hands to do as it commands.

 

[Rex]

You didn't really misinterpret the meaning of the 'mark' concerning it being 'in' the hand, or 'in' the forehead. The real 'mark of the beast' is in the mind, and in the hand referring to doing its works. The real mark is about being deceived and following the beast, which is why the warning of Rev.14 also includes the idea of worshipping the beast and his 'image'.

Deuteronomy 11:18

[sup]18 [/sup]“Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. [sup]19 [/sup]You shall teach them to your children, speaking of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. [sup]20 [/sup]And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates, [sup]21 [/sup]that your days and the days of your children may be multiplied in the land of which the Lord swore to your fathers to give them, like the days of the heavens above the earth.

 

[oliver]

Raeneske, what evidence do you have that the commands to bind the words on the forehead and the hand and on the door posts were not meant to be taken literally?

 

[Rex]

Raeneske, what evidence do you have that the commands to bind the words on the forehead and the hand and on the door posts were not meant to be taken literally?

Do you believe God intended this "pic below" when He spoke in Deuteronomy 11:18
If you do, can you show me where all of Israel literally preformed this practice after Dt 11?
Or where God or Moses admonished some for not wearing there special box "tefillin" on their forehead?

Don't misunderstand, I respect the zeal of these men, but is that what God intended?
It's pretty straight forward in the case of the door post

From your link

Certain Jewish groups, including probably the Sadducees, and definitely the medieval Karaites, understood the command to be figurative: that one should always be preoccupied with words of Torah, as if they were in front of one's eyes. The Pharisees, however, took the text literally: the words of the Torah are to be inscribed on a scroll and placed directly between one's eyes and on one's arm.
Today, observant Jews wear tefillin both in literal obedience to these Torah verses and to remind the wearer of God's commandments.

 

[oliver]

Rex

...can you show me where all of Israel literally preformed this practice after Dt 11?

Jesus referred to the practice in Matthew 23:5 (condemning the Pharisees for being ostentatious about it).

Bearing that in mind, it seems very likely that the mark of the beast will be something visible. Just as the phylactery was supposed to remind the wearer of God's word and to demonstrate his commitment to God's word, so the mark will demonstrate the wearer's commitment to the beast. Hence taking it will be an irrevocable step.

 

[Trekson]

I agree that it will be a physical mark of some sort. I don't believe this is meant to be taken "symbolically".

 

[tgwprophet]

We...as God Fearing Americans need an Amendmnt to the Constitution that strictly forbids the Government from allowing any Mark that could be used in any manner fulfilling Scripture of Revelation concerning the Mark of the Beast. As a Christian American in a nation founded upon christianity, it eludes me why this was never done... except when one consders the reasn one becomes a politician in a governmental position... self power... power in any and all facets possible to weild at their own descretion and to hell with the people who support the country, fight and die for the country and alone have littlee or no authority. Do I seem anti-government? Anti-USA? Well.. I love my country, but I hate our government its wheels turn against God.

 

[Rex]

Rex



Jesus referred to the practice in Matthew 23:5 (condemning the Pharisees for being ostentatious about it).

Bearing that in mind, it seems very likely that the mark of the beast will be something visible. Just as the phylactery was supposed to remind the wearer of God's word and to demonstrate his commitment to God's word, so the mark will demonstrate the wearer's commitment to the beast. Hence taking it will be an irrevocable step.

I notice you wrote "it seems very likely" So I respectfully disagree.
Just as the Spirit is invisible including the spirit of anti-christ mentioned in 1 John our adversary seeks to counterfeit or mimic Christ including the binding of the words of God [sup]18 [/sup]“Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

A bit farther down in Rev God also marks those that are His, does "it seem very likely" to you this will also be a visible mark?

We...as God Fearing Americans need an Amendmnt to the Constitution that strictly forbids the Government from allowing any Mark that could be used in any manner fulfilling Scripture of Revelation concerning the Mark of the Beast. As a Christian American in a nation founded upon christianity, it eludes me why this was never done... except when one consders the reasn one becomes a politician in a governmental position... self power... power in any and all facets possible to weild at their own descretion and to hell with the people who support the country, fight and die for the country and alone have littlee or no authority. Do I seem anti-government? Anti-USA? Well.. I love my country, but I hate our government its wheels turn against God.

I don't think you have to fear a mark, most of the world with television, radio and or access to books knows about the visible mark. Do you really think that it will not come to peoples minds even if they are not born of God? Doesn't sound very sneaky to me. Remenber it will be like the time of Noah and Lott? Men were going about their business. It indicate minds and hearts will already be given over to an anti biblical God. So what takes place first?............I'll tell you, the changing of the heart and mind "soul" then follows the flesh or action. Just as God lays it out in Dt First comes the heart and soul "your mind" followed by action.

Bind the on the frontlets between your eyes "Mind and soul"..................... The sign on your hand "your actions"........... A sign is to be seen.

[sup]18 [/sup]“Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

 

[oliver]

Rex

I notice you wrote "it seems very likely" So I respectfully disagree.

Well that is certainly your privilege! To judge by past fulfilled prophecy, prophecy of future events is fulfilled exactly,yet often appears very different from what people were expecting.

But I do feel that the regular scaremongering about RFID chips and the like is beside the point. Apart from the fact that the church won't be around at all when this happens, the mark must involve a commitment to the beast and against God and Jesus.

 

[tgwprophet]

Rex you posted " I don't think you have to fear a mark, most of the world with television, radio and or access to books knows about the visible mark. Do you really think that it will not come to peoples minds even if they are not born of God? "

Actually the information I gave below snuck up on us and got put into place and function witthout the majority of people realizing it was complete. A News broadcast showed American its diverse forms in Home Depot, Star Bucks and another place i believe. I watched it on the News. Better yet... it was displayed as NO BIG DEAL. SO... to answer your question, pr debte you issue..yes I think they will not realize the act they are comitting when they use the Beast's Mark. Most theologians of days past figured you had to know it was the Mark of the Beast you were using.... this is not the casse. This Beast merely signs a document UNIFYING the diverse MARKS already in place, functioning and used by so many they will not realize what they do. You did not know this???

Probably I should address the "fear the Mark" thing you posted as well.... Lets see.. One becomes acclimatesd to its use before the Beast ever shows up on the scene, in fact... so acclimated that it has been completely acceptable to them for a couple years. Actual money transfers have all but gone away. Thecredit and debit card problems with all the swiping has people un-sure as they continually need to get a new card and at times is mot bothersome. However, identify theft is on the rise and now your face and your phone number allows you to buy goos and services, your name and your face allows you to do likewise. Your new phone allows the same thing. and so one day in an emergency room the "desk help" instead of wanting to put a band on your hand, has a smok and wants to put a cip IN your hand. Remember this is an emergency and you or your child needs immediate medical attention. FEAR IT??? OF COURSE YOU SHOULD FEAR IT! No matter how prepared you think you are... Satan had already formulated a plan agaist your protection long before you were even born. You think you are going to out witt him? Understand the Mark i not made manditory until roughly mid-term of Tribulation.


Oliver you wrote: " But I do feel that the regular scaremongering about RFID chips and the like is beside the point. Apart from the fact that the church won't be around at all when this happens, the mark must involve a commitment to the beast and against God and Jesus. "

Do you believe that the church is already gone? Understand the Mark is ALREADY here and being used. You can currenttly go online setup YOUR existing personal bank account and go to a variety ofplaces and exchange goods or services for your phone number, your name or haveyour phone scanned, did you not know this? The RFID - Radio Frequency IDentificatrion chip has been around quite a while as well. AND the ObamaCare Pan has a provision for it's inclusion as a manner of currency transfer.

 

[oliver]

terry

Understand the Mark is ALREADY here and being used

That assumes you are correct in your identification of it, doesn't it?!

The fact that it is on the forehead or hand is an obvious reference to Deuteronomy 11:18, which means that the mark has got to be some kind of explicit commitment to the beast and thus an explicit rejection of Jesus. I am sure it is going to be something visible.

There is a strong tendency for Americans to think that their circumstances are the norm. In fact, the widespread use of RFID in the Third World is extremely unlikely, because the infrastructure for it does not exist. A market trader selling for cash in a small town in Africa isn't going to have the ability to scan an RFID chip, still less to decide to whom he should sell on the basis of it.

 

[tgwprophet]

Oliver wrote: " That assumes you are correct in your identification of it, doesn't it?! "

MY identification of the Mark of the Beast encompasses ALL posibilities as per my post.

quote: " There is a strong tendency for Americans to think that their circumstances are the norm. In fact, the widespread use of RFID in the Third World is extremely unlikely, because the infrastructure for it does not exist. A market trader selling for cash in a small town in Africa isn't going to have the ability to scan an RFID chip, still less to decide to whom he should sell on the basis of it. "

ok, I did not just pull a rabbit out of my hat. When ALL posibilities are present then ANY possibility of a thrid world country become vaible. Do you know how in-expensive a scanner is? Buying and selling goods between people would or could be diffficult and maybe next to impossible.. So... lets consider that... If so, a mediator with this capability would need to be used. This would mean taxes would have to be paid ! Think about the amount of revenue that would produce in any country !!! God Bless You Oliver you are an asset to this forum.

 

[aspen]

Ever see the movie 'Up'? Remember the scene when the dog is trying to carry on a conversation, but is distracted by a squirrel? Just substitute the dog for humanity and the squirrel for a piece of fruit and you get an idea of the kind of challenge the Devil is facing in his efforts to distract us from God.........

.....still think eschatology needs to be complicated in order to be deceptive?