Matthew 21:32; Need Help Tracing Study Sources

[GodsGlorified]

I am researching repentance in the New Testament. I came across a technical reference to an exposition on Matthew 21:32 that is particularly interesting for my study. But, I don’t know enough to find the source—even with the help of the website publisher! Can you help!?!

Here is the pertinent text from the technical notes: “Following this line Burton translates the clause "did not repent afterward, so as to believe in him." Both McNeile and Hagner follow Moulton, M.I, and take the construction here as epexegetic, "providing the content of the preceding verb." Burton's translation is probably closer to Matthew's intent.”

I think he may be referring to Ernest De Witt Burton.

The link to the technical notes: The gospel of Matthew 21:23-32

The text in question—quoted above—is at the very bottom of these technical notes.

When I inquired about the source I got this reply: “Yes, #398, p157. Sorry, Gk. Bib. is under abbreviations, no clear link.”

What is #398? Does this refer to the Greek Bible in some way? A writing by Mr. Burton? Something else?

Thanks,

Sean Gunn

 

[GodsGlorified]

Nevermind about the source, I found that it is a reference to an entry on page 157 of ‘Syntax of the Moods and Tenses in New Testament Greek’ by Ernest De Witt Burton.

I will still have to study about language to understand it well; but, this might make the end of this verse imply something quite different.

“...and believe him.” (NIV) is very different from “...that you might believe him.” (WEB)

Matthew 21:32 - Bible Gateway

Thanks!

 

[Hidden In Him]

I will still have to study about language to understand it well; but, this might make the end of this verse imply something quite different.

“...and believe him.” (NIV) is very different from “...that you might believe him.” (WEB)

Matthew 21:32 - Bible Gateway

Thanks!

Greetings God's Glorified, and welcome to Christianity Board.

The Greek here actually reads, "But having seen him, you did not repent afterwards to believe him," which is an even more interesting phrase. It corresponds more closely with "that you might believe him." The phrase likely means "repent" in the sense described in Matthew 21:29 (μεταμέλλομαι is used in both verses). What it suggests is that the moment we repent, we open ourselves up to hearing and fully believing those whom God sends to us. But until we are willing, we will not hear them.

 

[GodsGlorified]

Greetings God's Glorified, and welcome to Christianity Board.

Thanks!

The Greek here actually reads, "But having seen him, you did not repent afterwards to believe him,"

Is this your own translation; or, is this from a published version I can find somewhere?

What it suggests is that the moment we repent, we open ourselves up to hearing and fully believing those whom God sends to us. But until we are willing, we will not hear them.

Yes, I can see that as the suggestion. Such a possible implication is exactly the reason that I am focusing on this verse. With my own experiences, it could mean even more...but maybe God gives some of us different experiences.

Thanks!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Thanks!

You're welcome : )

Is this your own translation; or, is this from a published version I can find somewhere?

That's from The Complete Bible Library, which is a New Testament Study Bible 16 Volume work. It provides strict word for word translation, so that is what I would go with, yes.

Yes, I can see that as the suggestion. Such a possible implication is exactly the reason that I am focusing on this verse. With my own experiences, it could mean even more...but maybe God gives some of us different experiences.

If you repackage this subject matter in a new thread under a different title - something more to the point of the practical insight you are seeing - you may get some comments both pro and conn.

Just a suggestion.

God bless, and welcome once again.
HiH

 

[DPMartin]

I am researching repentance in the New Testament. I came across a technical reference to an exposition on Matthew 21:32 that is particularly interesting for my study. But, I don’t know enough to find the source—even with the help of the website publisher! Can you help!?!

Here is the pertinent text from the technical notes: “Following this line Burton translates the clause "did not repent afterward, so as to believe in him." Both McNeile and Hagner follow Moulton, M.I, and take the construction here as epexegetic, "providing the content of the preceding verb." Burton's translation is probably closer to Matthew's intent.”

I think he may be referring to Ernest De Witt Burton.

The link to the technical notes: The gospel of Matthew 21:23-32

The text in question—quoted above—is at the very bottom of these technical notes.

When I inquired about the source I got this reply: “Yes, #398, p157. Sorry, Gk. Bib. is under abbreviations, no clear link.”

What is #398? Does this refer to the Greek Bible in some way? A writing by Mr. Burton? Something else?

Thanks,

Sean Gunn

if you understand the text, then what do you need the commentary for?

 

[GodsGlorified]

That's from The Complete Bible Library, which is a New Testament Study Bible 16 Volume work. It provides strict word for word translation, so that is what I would go with, yes.

Whoa! Those are going for around $60/volume if you can even find them. There is no way I can afford a set. Maybe I can find them at a library somewhere. I do look at the interlinear on biblehub.com for all of the scriptures I consider using in my ministry. In the case of Matthew 21:32, that version of the interlinear has exactly the same wording at the end: ‘to believe him.’

If you repackage this subject matter in a new thread under a different title - something more to the point of the practical insight you are seeing - you may get some comments both pro and conn.

I’m not really looking for a debate. Maybe I will create another thread to see if it brings out any other useful information or sources. You and Mr. Findlayson have both pointed me to authoritative, scholarly sources that could be interpreted as underpinning some of the ministry with which God has charged me.

if you understand the text, then what do you need the commentary for?

Like many messengers, God did not speak words to me. The signs I was shown were clearly a result of following specific scriptures. So, it is certainly worth studying related writings. What I have found has actually been quite shocking and illuminating!

I consider it a great responsibility to minister on behalf of God. My perspective is really quite narrow because it happened despite my skepticism about things people are commonly asked to believe. Unless I uncover a new understanding, my ministry will likely be controversial when compared to what is commonly preached by many today.

“It is impossible that no occasions of stumbling should come, but woe to him through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, rather than that he should cause one of these little ones to stumble.” —Jesus, Luke 17:1-2 (WEB)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Whoa! Those are going for around $60/volume if you can even find them. There is no way I can afford a set. Maybe I can find them at a library somewhere. I do look at the interlinear on biblehub.com for all of the scriptures I consider using in my ministry. In the case of Matthew 21:32, that version of the interlinear has exactly the same wording at the end: ‘to believe him.’

Yes. I started building my library in the days before the internet was very big. In this day and age you can save yourself a ton of money by just finding good helpful resource sites. I use the Greek Bible Online and the Septuagint Online quite often, and Bible Gateway incessantly. As for good online NT Interlinears, I'm sure there's some out there, I just go to my books for that.

the ministry with which God has charged me.

Out of curiosity, what ministry would that be?

 

[GodsGlorified]

Out of curiosity, what ministry would that be?

At this time I simply mean the message(s) that I am charged with delivering. In a nutshell, that would be: “people need to overcome their self-absorption and humbly repent.” It is a little more complicated I suppose—I can’t see my circumstances, my testimony you might say (as a skeptic), as separate from the message.

When I am satisfied with my research (rapidly approaching it would seem), I will use my technical skills (have a computer science degree) to create websites, an ebook, some web videos, and see where it all leads. I have thought I might contact some local churches and inquire if they would let me deliver my testimony or my general message about humbling oneself to repent.

 

[Hidden In Him]

It is a little more complicated I suppose—I can’t see my circumstances, my testimony you might say (as a skeptic), as separate from the message.

Wise words. Let your own circumstances fully play out before focusing too much on ministering to others. People can sense when you are talking more to yourself than them. Plus, once your eyes are completely off yourself, you're free to take a harder look at the lives of others. You then begin seeing some differences. Plenty of similarities, of course, but it is when you can pinpoint subtle differences that you can minister most effectively to others.

When I am satisfied with my research (rapidly approaching it would seem), I will use my technical skills (have a computer science degree) to create websites, an ebook, some web videos, and see where it all leads.

Very valuable skills.

I have thought I might contact some local churches and inquire if they would let me deliver my testimony or my general message about humbling oneself to repent.

Most would ask that you to become a member of their congregations first. Nothing wrong with it if you feel led, so keep your ears open for where He might lead you.

 

[GodsGlorified]

Wise words. Let your own circumstances fully play out before focusing too much on ministering to others. People can sense when you are talking more to yourself than them. Plus, once your eyes are completely off yourself, you're free to take a harder look at the lives of others. You then begin seeing some differences. Plenty of similarities, of course, but it is when you can pinpoint subtle differences that you can minister most effectively to others.

My concern is not exactly being able to relate or being too focused on myself. The scope of my Biblical faith was quite narrow when God manifested ‘miraculous signs and miracles’ into my path. Yet, this did not deter God.

I do not find myself being able to tell people to believe in all of the Bible as holy scripture. I cannot just tow the line and follow commonly established patterns of ministry. It would not be honest/accurate. But, I trust in God’s wisdom. Just as God may have chosen a reluctant, humble servant in Moses, certainly, God must’ve chosen a reasoning skeptic on purpose!

It seems likely that I was chosen for my deep sincerity of belief and obedience to Jesus’ command, ‘Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand!’

“Not everyone that says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does My Father’s will, Who is in Heaven.” —Matthew 7:21 (RGT)

Perhaps I am to minister (relate) to doubters and skeptics. My view if the Bible is different than most, more narrow, and largely explainable by reason/logic.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I do not find myself being able to tell people to believe in all of the Bible as holy scripture. I cannot just tow the line and follow commonly established patterns of ministry. It would not be honest/accurate.

Don't tow any lines, ever. He is a God who wants you thinking, not just taking everything "on faith." That argument is a bunch of crap, especially when dealing with the subject of apologetics.

But, I trust in God’s wisdom. Just as God may have chosen a reluctant, humble servant in Moses, certainly, God must’ve chosen a reasoning skeptic on purpose!

Absolutely. And He will reveal all things to you if you keep praying and asking for Him to. Pray over each question specifically, one by one, and go wherever He leads you in your research. Every question will be answered if you stay in faith that it will, and do not doubt (James 1:5-8).