Messiah 2030

[rebuilder 454]

LORD Jesus Christ = the ULTIMATE Post-Tribber = you need to believe Him and all that HE Says

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Lol
S.I. (amil), agrees with you.
....as does the catholic church.
Dude....no red flags???????

Jesus is postrib?????
Maybe one day you can straighten him out from the error of ALL RAPTURE VERSES ARE pretrib setting.
Jesus error In the following;
* 2 escape verses
* before the flood the rapture ( one taken)
* the setting of Matt 25 virgins
* the setting of Acts 1
* the setting of Noah and Lot gathered.
* Noah , the baby Jesus,and Lot gathered pretrib.
Remember, your doctrine has nothing on the subject of the bride and groom.
Get every sermon on some postrib teaching.
NONE OF them brings the bride/bride groom to the table.
None of them incorporate mat 25, the virgins.
None of them bring out the SETTING of the rapture verses.
None of them know ANYTHING ABOUT HARVEST.
None of them bring out the time of the Gentiles completed, and romans 11 the Jewish harvest. ( Which is why they never have, and never will understand,The Jew grafted back in,or the 144k firstfruits and main harvest of Jews following.)
The ENTIRE THING is tortured and OMITTED.
HOSEA means nothing to them. Such a vivid picture thrown aside.
Ruth is also so vivid of an illustration...TOTALLY THROWN ASIDE.
Just amazing the misunderstanding of a postrib adherent.
AND THEY CELEBRATE THEIR IGNORANCE.

All with no red flags.

You can see it here in the forum also.
Never will a postrib rapture adherent make a thread on any of those subjects in a positive light.

If you EVER see a postribber go to those subjects I listed, it will be to challenge us who walk in freedom, who seek to master his word and promises.

It is no contest big time.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Rapture of the Church only occurs at "His Coming" SINGULAR = Gospel, 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 2 Thess ch2 , 1 Cor ch15, Revelation

FYI = there is no room for 'pre-trib' in the Gospel and especially in "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days....I COME"

I just shake my head at your omission of verses.
Your choice.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The rapture is the groom gathering the bride.

The 7 yr trib is Jacob's trouble
Israel's trouble
Jewish trouble.

Why are those OVERLY SIMPLE BASIC facts so muddied up in EVERY doctrine but the pretrib rapture doctrine?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Truth is hidden in plain sight.

Heaven ordained it.

 

[Scott Downey]

I just shake my head at your omission of verses.
Your choice.

I don't know how you can just blow off the words of Jesus and the apostles like you do.
Long time ago, i was pretrib, but never strongly pretrib, because it always seemed to oddly be at odds with what I would read in scripture.

After awhile I realized the left behind authors and all those movies were false teachers. And of course no way would just blindly follow that.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Time to lay down the utensils that have been used to torture verses to force fit into some dreamed up doctrine.

If you change one single verse, then you're gonna have to change 20 or 50 more and end up being embarrassed that you are so wrong.

 

[David in NJ]

Lol
S.I. (amil), agrees with you.
....as does the catholic church.
Dude....no red flags???????

Jesus is postrib?????
Maybe one day you can straighten him out from the error of ALL RAPTURE VERSES ARE pretrib setting.
Jesus error In the following;
* 2 escape verses
* before the flood the rapture ( one taken)
* the setting of Matt 25 virgins
* the setting of Acts 1
* the setting of Noah and Lot gathered.
* Noah , the baby Jesus,and Lot gathered pretrib.
Remember, your doctrine has nothing on the subject of the bride and groom.
Get every sermon on some postrib teaching.
NONE OF them brings the bride/bride groom to the table.
None of them incorporate mat 25, the virgins.
None of them bring out the SETTING of the rapture verses.
None of them know ANYTHING ABOUT HARVEST.
None of them bring out the time of the Gentiles completed, and romans 11 the Jewish harvest. ( Which is why they never have, and never will understand,The Jew grafted back in,or the 144k firstfruits and main harvest of Jews following.)
The ENTIRE THING is tortured and OMITTED.
HOSEA means nothing to them. Such a vivid picture thrown aside.
Ruth is also so vivid of an illustration...TOTALLY THROWN ASIDE.
Just amazing the misunderstanding of a postrib adherent.
AND THEY CELEBRATE THEIR IGNORANCE.

All with no red flags.

You can see it here in the forum also.
Never will a postrib rapture adherent make a thread on any of those subjects in a positive light.

If you EVER see a postribber go to those subjects I listed, it will be to challenge us who walk in freedom, who seek to master his word and promises.

It is no contest big time.

The Entirety of Scripture only Speak/Prophesy of "Pre-Wrath" Deliverance for the Saints.

the very term "pre-trib" is no where in Scripture and immediately sets-off 'alarms' and 'red flags'

 

[rebuilder 454]

I don't know how you can just blow off the words of Jesus and the apostles like you do.

I listed them
Show us your superior "interpretation"

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Entirety of Scripture only Speak/Prophesy of "Pre-Wrath" Deliverance for the Saints.

the very term "pre-trib" is no where in Scripture and immediately sets-off 'alarms' and 'red flags'

Show me your setting where I showed you the bible setting.
Show me a different setting.

Do you even read what the setting is???????

 

[Scott Downey]

I listed them
Show us your superior "interpretation"

Already have, you just ignore all of it. As have many others.
I think your dislike of AMil has closed your mind to one particular part of Paul's teaching in 2 Thessalonians 1

 

[rebuilder 454]

The Entirety of Scripture only Speak/Prophesy of "Pre-Wrath" Deliverance for the Saints.

the very term "pre-trib" is no where in Scripture and immediately sets-off 'alarms' and 'red flags'

"Entirety of Scripture "
That's comical.

Again.
Jesus used "tribulation."
That is where I got it from.

Daniel calls it the 70th week.
You don't know what you are talking about.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Already have, you just ignore all of it. As have many others.
I think your dislike of AMil has closed your mind to one particular part of Paul's teaching in 2 Thessalonians 1

Oh OK.
Amil.
Have a good day!
As you just demonstrated , you and I are miles apart.

 

[David in NJ]

Truth is hidden in plain sight.

Heaven ordained it.

TRUTH in Plain SIGHT = "Immediately after the tribulation.....I COME" = JESUS = Matt 24:29-31

TRUTH in Plain SIGHT = "In the world you will have tribulation" JESUS = John 16:33

TRUTH in Plain SIGHT = that none of you would be shaken by these trials. For you know that we are destined for this. Indeed, when we were with you, we kept warning you that we would suffer persecution - 1 Thess chapter 3

TRUTH in Plain SIGHT = That is why we boast among God’s churches about your perseverance and faith in the face of all the persecution and affliction you are enduring. All this is clear evidence of God’s righteous judgment. And so you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering - 2 Thess chapter 1

• TRUTH in Plain SIGHT = Therefore be patient, brethren, until the Coming of the Lord........My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience. Indeed we count them blessed who endure. ​
• You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful. - James 5:7​

 

[David in NJ]

"Entirety of Scripture "
That's comical.

Again.
Jesus used "tribulation."
That is where I got it from.

Daniel calls it the 70th week.
You don't know what you are talking about.

JESUS never said tribulation is God's Wrath

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I listed them
Show us your superior "interpretation"

You list scriptures with no exegesis or explanation for how you come to your conclusions. Anyone can do that. It's meaningless.

 

[covenantee]

I think that dude you are addressing is amil.
Which is a TOTALLY different bible.
They really need their own thread, because they challenge us from a weird angle.
You will be rocking along in a discussion and wonder why EVERY SINGLE POINT does not even come close to registering with them.

EVERYTHING you believe is different than them.

Marilyn seems to be ignoring you.

You should retry.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So the A/C is going to set himself up in our body?

Did you just ignore all the scriptures that covenantee posted which show that every time the word "naos" is used by Paul it refers to an individual's body or the collective body of Christ (the church) as the temple of God?

Paul is speaking figuratively in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 about people in the church who fall away deciding that they don't need God anymore, thereby essentially making themselves God.

The phrase "the man of sin" is not referring to an individual man of sin, but rather is referring to rebellious mankind in general. The following passage refers to "the man of God", but is not referring to an individual man of God, but rather to the people of God in general.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Why would Paul talk about a physical temple of God there in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 when he never used the word "naos" to refer to a physical temple anywhere else? Paul would not be inconsistent like that.

How could a future physical temple possibly be considered the temple of God? It would have to be a temple that God Himself would consider to be His temple. That's not possible for a future physical temple to be His temple. He no longer dwells in temples made with human hands (Acts 7:48, Acts 17:24).

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The rapture is the groom gathering the bride.

Yep, which happens sometime after the anti-christ is revealed to the world:


2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

*The phrase ”Gathering together”
Strongs 1997 = from 1996; a complete collection; especially a Christian meeting (for worship): -- assembling (gathering) together.
Strongs 1996 = from 1909 and 4863; to collect upon the same place: KJV -- gather (together).

*The phrase ”Falling Away”
Strongs 646 = feminine of the same as 647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"): KJV -- falling away, forsake.
Strongs 647 = neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of 868; properly, something separative, i.e. (specially) divorce: KJV -- (writing of) divorcement.
Strongs 868 = from 575 and 2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: KJV -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

*Same word is translated “forsake” in Acts 21:21 - so this is what the word means: many will forsake the Lord (speaking of those that were Christians but fall away)

Definitions point to the rapture not happening until many who claim to be Christians fall away from the faith, and the anti-christ is revealed

This would mean the traditional pre-trib rapture view could not be correct
where Christians are taken out before the anti-christ is revealed, but instead Christians will be here leading up to the start of the anti-christ coming to power

Some claim the word translated “falling away” really means rapture… if that were true, then 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 would say the rapture won't happen until the rapture happens and the anti-christ be revealed which it does NOT say.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yep, which happens sometime after the anti-christ is revealed to the world:


2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

*The phrase ”Gathering together”
Strongs 1997 = from 1996; a complete collection; especially a Christian meeting (for worship): -- assembling (gathering) together.
Strongs 1996 = from 1909 and 4863; to collect upon the same place: KJV -- gather (together).

*The phrase ”Falling Away”
Strongs 646 = feminine of the same as 647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"): KJV -- falling away, forsake.
Strongs 647 = neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of 868; properly, something separative, i.e. (specially) divorce: KJV -- (writing of) divorcement.
Strongs 868 = from 575 and 2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: KJV -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

*Same word is translated “forsake” in Acts 21:21 - so this is what the word means: many will forsake the Lord (speaking of those that were Christians but fall away)

Definitions point to the rapture not happening until many who claim to be Christians fall away from the faith, and the anti-christ is revealed

This would mean the traditional pre-trib rapture view could not be correct
where Christians are taken out before the anti-christ is revealed, but instead Christians will be here leading up to the start of the anti-christ coming to power

Some claim the word translated “falling away” really means rapture… if that were true, then 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 would say the rapture won't happen until the rapture happens and the anti-christ be revealed which it does NOT say.

The AC is revealed pretrib.
"Revealed" is not the same as "in power"

 

[rebuilder 454]

JESUS never said tribulation is God's Wrath

He never spoke of the miracles that were left out of the Bible.
Therefore they do not exist?