David in NJ
Well-Known Member
HE spoke of TRUTH = therefore you must believe His words = every one of them = Matthew 4:4
If it were not written down for us then we do not speculate = Proverbs 30:5-6
Messiah 2030
- Thread starter The Light
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
If it were not written down for us then we do not speculate = Proverbs 30:5-6
Since Jesus only does and says as The Father speaks, do you ever think The Father simply has not 'spoken" it yet?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Last edited:
Unquestionably Paul was intimately aware of and familiar with all of the various manifestations of apostasy in the early Church.
But now he was foreseeing something entirely unique and unprecedented - a man of sin (and succession thereof, per 2 Timothy 3:17) who would take up residence within the Church, claim to in essence be God upon the earth, and arrogate and usurp the spiritual authorities, rights, and privileges which God had given to the Church. These declarations, and many more, leave no doubt as to the pretensions of this apostasy:
- “All the names which in the Scripture are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Conciliorum Auctoriatate (On the Authority of the Councils) Bk 2, chap. 17
- “The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. He is the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and king of kings. Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, vol.6, art. “Papa II”
- “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, p. 304.
"What other ruling monarch of Christendom ever pretended to apostolic authority, or ruled men in the name of God? Does the pope dress in royal robes? Nay, but in priestly garments. Does he wear a crown? Nay, but a triple tiara, to show that he reigns in heaven, earth, and hell! Does he wield a sceptre? Nay, but a crosier or crook, to show that he is the good shepherd of the Church. Do his subjects kiss his hand? Nay, but his toe! Verily this power is diverse from the rest, both in great things and little." (Romanism and the Reformation)
Scripture and history confirm the validity of Paul's divinely inspired prescience.
It can't be the 'temple of God' on earth
The temple of God is His people who are on earth, that is where God dwells. Jesus said HE will be in you.
John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
But it could be called the 'temple of God' falsely, as that is what the people of that future time will think it is, even though it is a false idea, as obviously there is not God dwelling there in some kind of a building.
And recall the people of that future time will be under a strong delusion sent from God to believe the lie, as they refuse to love the truth.
They being under strong delusions, will believe nonsensical stuff, worse than even today. They will be far from the Truth.
The temple of God is His people who are on earth, that is where God dwells. Jesus said HE will be in you.
John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
But it could be called the 'temple of God' falsely, as that is what the people of that future time will think it is, even though it is a false idea, as obviously there is not God dwelling there in some kind of a building.
And recall the people of that future time will be under a strong delusion sent from God to believe the lie, as they refuse to love the truth.
They being under strong delusions, will believe nonsensical stuff, worse than even today. They will be far from the Truth.
Dave Watchman
Active Member
"I only speak the words given to me by my Father.
"I only speak the words given to me by the Father" is a statement that reflects the belief that Jesus spoke only the words that the Father instructed him to speak. This concept is clearly expressed in John 12, where Jesus says, "For I have not spoken on my own, but the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it".
"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."
I believe Nancy is actually correct, even as it relates to the second coming. There's a reason why only the Father, even now, can be the only One to know the day and the hour. There's more than one reason why.
Jesus said He would never blot out our name from the Book of Life. That Book was given to Him by the Father. The Father already wrote the names in it.
I can get into all kinds of trouble here if I continue. I think the Rapture is coming very soon, but there's only one. They can't wait for another Rapture. We're waiting for more names to come through the pipeline so that a complete number of our brothers and fellow servants can be here now.
When Christ appears we will be like Him, in the twinkling of an eye, for we will see Him as He is.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
YES, thank you = fully understood
That was when the LORD walked this earth as a man = "the son of man"
BEFORE the Word became flesh, HE dwelt in Eternity being Echad/One with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT
JESUS returned to the FATHER and to the Glory HE had with the FATHER before the world was created = John chapter 17
THEY had plenty of conversations from Eternity past as they are now in Eternity Present as they will in Eternity Future
The Word that was God = John 1:1
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Actually when he is revealed that's when he becomes in power.
And yes, he is revealed before the rapture happens, but the first 3.5 years are going to be relativity peaceful which is how he tricked everyone in to following him and taking the mark
When he comes on the scene he bring peace and seemingly answers to all the world problems which is why everyone want him to be in power. For a few years now there are people around the world asking for a one world leader
God spoke in His Word about everything He wants mankind to know about.
Just because He did things that were not put in His Word does not mean He did not do them, it just means you don't need to be worrying about them.
Anything the Lord has not yet revealed to mankind thru His Word are things we don't need to know about
The Lord is Somebody and Paul is nobody so let's not be following Paul as some are doing making him in to an idol due to their still being carnal not being led by the Holy Spirit.
Those that are born again filled with the Spirit walking in God's Word are like Him right now!
We just haven't received out glorified body yet like the Lord has.
In fact when He appears, those that are not like Him will be rejected by Him because they are still like the devil.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
FYI = 1 Thess 4:13-18
the Rapture is a one-time event that is PRECEDED by His Coming and the Resurrection(First) of the dead in Christ
Not a single Blood Washed Saint is left behind = Hebrews 13:5
Philippians 4
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
Let's be following Paul's example as did the Philippians.
1 Corinthians 3:17
If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.
2 Thess 1
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
About the 'temple of God'
God does not dwell in the unbelieving, God does dwell in the spiritually DEAD, such people are not the 'temple of God', nor can they be.
God only dwells in His people. Those who love God, the Father and the Son, those who called by Him into the church, called to be saints, those who keep His word. They are given eternal life and will never perish. They are the temple of the living God. Not any building, not according to the New Covenant.
Paul must be describing someone and something other than the genuine people of God who are the 'temple of God'
This thing is earthly, of this world, devilish, satanic, we even have this evil thing sitting there in that 'temple of God'
If this 'temple of God' are his people that must by necessity go against many other scriptures related to who are really His people indwelt by the Father and the Son
John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
Colossians 1:27
To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [a]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
Of the Old Covenant with the Jews, Jesus said
Matthew 23:21
He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it.
Paul spoke of a temple which was a building, a Jewish temple of God.
Acts speaks of such a temple of God, which is not the actual spiritual temple of God, but is earthly and Jewish.
Acts 2:46
So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
Acts 3:3
who, seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple, asked for alms.
Acts 5:20
“Go, stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this life.”
Acts 5:42
And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.
For me, this temple of God has nothing to do with His people, those whom He foreknew as His people, those who are glorified with Christ or people at all. It is about a Jewish temple of God in name only.
If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.
2 Thess 1
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
About the 'temple of God'
God does not dwell in the unbelieving, God does dwell in the spiritually DEAD, such people are not the 'temple of God', nor can they be.
God only dwells in His people. Those who love God, the Father and the Son, those who called by Him into the church, called to be saints, those who keep His word. They are given eternal life and will never perish. They are the temple of the living God. Not any building, not according to the New Covenant.
Paul must be describing someone and something other than the genuine people of God who are the 'temple of God'
This thing is earthly, of this world, devilish, satanic, we even have this evil thing sitting there in that 'temple of God'
If this 'temple of God' are his people that must by necessity go against many other scriptures related to who are really His people indwelt by the Father and the Son
John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
Colossians 1:27
To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [a]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
Of the Old Covenant with the Jews, Jesus said
Matthew 23:21
He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it.
Paul spoke of a temple which was a building, a Jewish temple of God.
Acts speaks of such a temple of God, which is not the actual spiritual temple of God, but is earthly and Jewish.
Acts 2:46
So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
Acts 3:3
who, seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple, asked for alms.
Acts 5:20
“Go, stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this life.”
Acts 5:42
And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.
For me, this temple of God has nothing to do with His people, those whom He foreknew as His people, those who are glorified with Christ or people at all. It is about a Jewish temple of God in name only.
Even were you to say that this refers to saved people who are departing from Christ, such people would also not be the 'temple of God' would they.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Quote;
"GOD spoke in His Word about everything He wants mankind to know about.
Just because He did things that were not put in His Word does not mean He did not do them, it just means you don't need to be worrying about them"
Yes. No brainer.
That was my point.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Yes Jesus spoke truth.
We all know that.
Nice
We all know that.
Nice dodge.
We all know that.
Nice
Yes Jesus spoke truth.
We all know that.
Nice dodge.
Dave Watchman
Active Member
I obviously agree.
I obviously agree.
I obviously agree with this too.
But what I'm saying about the "One Rapture" is that it's a one off and unique event in the history of mankind. All of creation groans for it. I might touch base on it this weekend and hide it in a spoiler. 90% of Evangelical Christians will get mad at what I say about it. I know one guy on here who thinks nobody gets eternal life until after the 1000 year millennium. So there's a wide range of understanding on it. The only reason I even mention it is because I have a hunch it's why we are stuck here in a holding pattern that only the Father knows when we get out of. I'm sure Jesus knows we're close, like right at the door.
Within the group of the first resurrection, the blessed and holy resurrection, I count three sections. 1st are those who have already fallen asleep, the dead already in Christ. 2nd are those of us who are alive right now and remain. (This is the group that will never taste physical death, they will be transformed in the blink of an eye.)
But within that 2nd group there's still is a 3rd group of special saints. Sort of a group within a group. These will be the only ones who have not worshiped the beast and it's image. These are the only ones who did not take the mark of the beast. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Something is different about these dudes. These are the brothers, and the fellow servants that I think we are waiting for now. Only the Father knows their names. Jesus would never blot our names out, but it was the Father Who wrote them there. From before the foundation of the universe.
(You can start to see where I'm going to get into trouble with this.)
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
QUOTE,
"Actually when he is revealed that's when he becomes in power."
Jesus told John 2000 yers ago who the AC is.
Those walking inbdiscernment will know who he is BEFORE the rapture, and before he takes power.
Obama is a perfect example of God showing his people what is really going on.
Obama was REVEALED WAY BEFORE he took power..
In God's testimony we see "birthpangs " before God acts.
He ALWAYS tells his prophetic people what he is about to do.
Today in this backwards mental church of America, the people of God just guess at most everything.
Nothing has changed.
The pharisees spirit is alive and thriving.
The power if God is hated. As those operating in it
Prophecy is pushed so far back people are not taught the pretrib rapture , so they just make up whatever suits them.
Postribbers hate the thought of a pretrib rapture and half the church left behind.
So they, along with the Catholics, make a special doctrine.
No discernment.
No time taken to dig up truth...and yet hold up a fake "truth" banner.
Obama proved America is ripe for deception.
As are the churches.
A black pastor friend of mine screamed at me at a restaurant for not going along with his infatuation with Obama.
Made a big public scene.
NO DISCERNMENT....A PASTOR!!!!
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Jesus told us half are left behind.
We know this.
They get beheaded.
We know this.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
QUOTE;
"These will be the only ones who have not worshiped the beast and it's image. These are the only ones who did not take the mark of the beast. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years"
That is from Rev 20.
Nobody is resurrected in Rev 20.
I think your most likely reading a n.i.v. Bible ,which is a very bad translation.
If you looked at passage, in the Greek, It's just saying they lived and rained with him a 1000 years.
It has nothing to do with resurrection at revelation, chapter 20.
They WERE RESURRECTED along with all those left behind that refused the mark a few years back.
Those bad translations that are floating around ,the modern ones, or horrible.
I have seen this before, where people think there is a special resurrection at the start of the mil for those beheaded ones.
.....due to not having a good bible.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Rev 14:14
Jesus harvesting during the trib.
That removes permanently any idea of "only one rapture"
Mat 24 has two gatherings.
In the pretrib one, half are left behind.
Mat 25 has half left behind also.
Some believe there is one coming.
Rev 19 has the second coming.
It is in power and glory and war.
No rapture of the church there unless you change other verses.
Thank you for the reply brother.
Well, not sure how much clearer to write this, lol.
If The Father hadn't spoken the day or hour to Jesus back then, Jesus wouldn't know. I also connect this with:
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
2 Peter 3:9 (perhaps God was simply waiting for the right time to reveal)
God gives chance after chance to those unsaved to accept His offer of salvation, wishing none to perish. At this point, my guess is that Jesus indeed now knows as time is short.
I hope this makes sense.
Similar threads
