Military

[Joyful]

(SwampFox;6128)
What's to "discern" when someone you love is being attacked? Give me a passage where Jesus said do nothing when a loved one is being hurt.
We are talking about military here; nothing about indiviudual defense.
I just about blew my cool when I read this, this is a slap in the face for those that I know and love. That's going way overboard and being very judgmental about why people do something; something you frankly have absolutely no business making. I respect that your husband was in the military and I thank him for his service. However, you're not the only one here with friends/family that served or are serving. I know at least one other very active member here has a son overseas as we speak. I have had and do have friends and family in the military stretching several generations. My grandfather went ashore with the Marines in Okinawa, I had a couple uncles fight in Vietnam, I have a cousin in the air force that's been to Pakistan during the quakes/tsunamis helping the victims there and then to Iraq, I have several friends and a family member in the marines some of which are on the front line. I know for a fact none of these signed up to further themselves. I will leave this part of the topic now before I say something I might later regret.
I am sure you are speaking the majority's sentiment. Regadless, I have to speak up because I am speaking from the evangelist's point of view.
What does this have to do at all with joining the American military?? There would be no right now if it weren't for the millions who sacrificed their lives so that there could be a right now. God's hand was in all of this! Hitler can claim to be Christian and can brainwash those who listen but do you think those that blindly followed Hitler are any worse off than those who teach false doctrines on the Lord's Day?
I will still repeat the same; true followers won't succumb into oppressors. faithful ones have been resisting and spreading the Jesus powerfully from the beginning of Jesus time on the earth, they will continue until the end. God is powerful in the weakness.When you are in the military you are killing many of brothers and sisters in Christ. Do you realize that there are Christians everywhere even in your enemy's countries?
Read the question in context please...it was not directed at you. When one sacrifices their life so that others can get to know, love, and worship Christ then there is no greater sacrifice at all. You can log all the mission hours (and the mission is a good thing) you want but it will never be greater.
I repeat the same; when we are evangelizing God and Jesus' love, we will feel foolish when you are supporting the military. I know this first hand; I was confronted by non-believers about our inconsistency. I did not think about it deeply before this confrontation because I was so used to see Christians in the military and churches have no problem whatsoever.

 

[ROS777]

I will still repeat the same; true followers won't succumb into oppressors. faithful ones have been resisting and spreading the Jesus powerfully from the beginning of Jesus time on the earth, they will continue until the end. God is powerful in the weakness.

Isn't it true that the liberal antiwar crowd is to go around spreading their confusion on all the conservatives forums?

When you are in the military you are killing many of brothers and sisters in Christ. Do you realize that there are Christians everywhere even in your enemy's countries?

Brothers and sisters in Christ are not terrorists.

 

[Joyful]

I just hope you are not a lady. You sound like militant macho man.If you don't think I am being honest about myself I cannot help about it.

Isn't it true that the liberal antiwar crowd is to go around spreading their confusion on all the conservatives forums?

I am sorry, but I don't even know what you are talking about. What is liberal and what is conservatives? I only know what the Bible teaches.

Brothers and sisters in Christ are not terrorists.

I don't know anything about politics and I don't know who are the terrolists and who are not. All I am interested is about spreading Jesus as much as I can. I don't have to know anything else, my dear. I will talk to anyone who has listening ears. I have to be kind and gentle to everyone including who you think your enemy, otherwise I don't have many listeners.

 

[HammerStone]

We are talking about military here; nothing about indiviudual defense.
Right, but when you start out at the local level it quickly leads to a precedent for the rest. My simple point is that there are times when you must defend yourself and those that you love. There's frankly no need for discernment when you child is being harmed right there in front of your eyes or your family is being threatened with death by an opposing military.
I am sure you are speaking the majority's sentiment. Regadless, I have to speak up because I am speaking from the evangelist's point of view.
I'm speaking from the way it is sentiment - you know the one that the Bible tells you about. Yeshua was never a wimp and never advocated that Christians must act like wimps. Jesus isn't coming back in a manger, he's coming back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords with glory ablaze. He is as much a God of war as he is a God of love. You have every right to defend his people and anyone who says otherwise is talking pure foolishness.Ecclesiastes 3:8A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
I will still repeat the same; true followers won't succumb into oppressors. faithful ones have been resisting and spreading the Jesus powerfully from the beginning of Jesus time on the earth, they will continue until the end. God is powerful in the weakness.
A loss in WWII would have meant there would be no faithful around to spread the word to others. I have no qualms with my faith if the Lord decides to take me home tomorrow. True followers are not cowards and will protect their own children and their right to get to know Christ!
When you are in the military you are killing many of brothers and sisters in Christ. Do you realize that there are Christians everywhere even in your enemy's countries?
And do you realize how many others don't want you and your brothers in sisters in Christ around at all? Laying down and dying is a good way for them to achieve that aim. Luckily, God gave us the common sense to defend ourselves.
repeat the same; when we are evangelizing God and Jesus' love, we will feel foolish when you are supporting the military. I know this first hand; I was confronted by non-believers about our inconsistency. I did not think about it deeply before this confrontation because I was so used to see Christians in the military and churches have no problem whatsoever.
I'm sorry, but I will not let a nonbeliever have influence over me on my faith. I've supported the military all my life and will continue to do so and I've yet to feel foolish. Thou shalt not murder doesn't mean thou shalt not go out and protect thy family.

 

[ROS777]

(Faithful1;6005)
As Christians, we have responsibility to be a good witnesses for the Lord. Jesus also teaches us to "love your enemy". When we consider those two, I don't believe it is biblical for Christians to join the military and kill our enemies like our enemies do. In secular world, it is perfectly ok to have military to defend their country. But we Christians should not have the same kind of mentality like the world.(and I am not talking about those already in who aren't christian and then become christian)I believe as Christians, when we approve and join the military we are committing a grave sin, IMHO.
I must admit I didn't read all your posts word for word but I get the gist.These thoughts, if you're sincere ( which I doubt ) are your own; they have no Biblical basis.Your understanding of " love " of one's enemies is not the same as the Bible's understanding of love of enemies.I'm not a big fan of political correctness and I think this comes out of PC.That is, of course, if you're not just funing with us in the first place.

 

[Joyful]

(ROS777;6141)
I must admit I didn't read all your posts word for word but I get the gist.These thoughts, if you're sincere ( which I doubt ) are your own; they have no Biblical basis.Your understanding of " love " of one's enemies is not the same as the Bible's understanding of love of enemies.I'm not a big fan of political correctness and I think this comes out of PC.That is, of course, if you're not just funing with us in the first place.
I understand your feelings about me and your position. We are all responsible for what we say and what we do whether we are helping God or our enemy, satan. We should not play Christians. If I am just here to cause trouble I am playing Christian which I don't believe that's what I am doing.

 

[Joyful]

(SwampFox;6140)
Right, but when you start out at the local level it quickly leads to a precedent for the rest. My simple point is that there are times when you must defend yourself and those that you love. There's frankly no need for discernment when you child is being harmed right there in front of your eyes or your family is being threatened with death by an opposing military.
This thread is all about Christians in the military. You are off topic.
I'm speaking from the way it is sentiment - you know the one that the Bible tells you about. Yeshua was never a wimp and never advocated that Christians must act like wimps. Jesus isn't coming back in a manger, he's coming back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords with glory ablaze. He is as much a God of war as he is a God of love. You have every right to defend his people and anyone who says otherwise is talking pure foolishness.
Again, we can use the Bible any way we want. I will not argue about the verses. It is so futile. We can argue scripture all day long and never get anywhere. Even satan used scriptures to argue with Jesus. Of course Jesus will not lose in any kind of arguments but we are not as smart as Jesus. All we do is go into never ending arguments.
Ecclesiastes 3:8A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
The same as the above.
A loss in WWII would have meant there would be no faithful around to spread the word to others. I have no qualms with my faith if the Lord decides to take me home tomorrow. True followers are not cowards and will protect their own children and their right to get to know Christ!
I will not be in the place of killing any of my fellow Christians. I will not teach my children to do so either.
And do you realize how many others don't want you and your brothers in sisters in Christ around at all? Laying down and dying is a good way for them to achieve that aim. Luckily, God gave us the common sense to defend ourselves.
Are you reading my posts at all? You are repeating the same kind of questions over and over. I will not repeat myself for same kind of argument. Please forgive me.
I'm sorry, but I will not let a nonbeliever have influence over me on my faith. I've supported the military all my life and will continue to do so and I've yet to feel foolish. Thou shalt not murder doesn't mean thou shalt not go out and protect thy family.
Do you realize that our main responsiblity is to reach out to the lost? Do you realize that we have to reach out to the non-believers?I just hope you reexamine your christianity. You don't seem to know what we have to do as Jesus' followers; this kind of mentality comes when your church is focused on majority and popularity based.

 

[HammerStone]

This thread is all about Christians in the military. You are off topic.
Number one, we are not "offtopic" by any means because self defense and defense of loved ones falls under talking about the military. Please don't chide me, as administrator of this forum, about being "offtopic" because you cannot come back with a reply to this that is Biblically-based and makes sense. This has everything to do with the topic and shows the Biblical logic thats blatantly lacking in your posts. Those people who questioned you about it are absolutely loving what you believe now.
Again, we can use the Bible any way we want. I will not argue about the verses. It is so futile. We can argue scripture all day long and never get anywhere. Even satan used scriptures to argue with Jesus. Of course Jesus will not lose in any kind of arguments but we are not as smart as Jesus. All we do is go into never ending arguments.
There's nothing to be "used" here. You can argue against the Word all day long but the result will be the same; you will lose. Ecclesiastes 3 is quite clear in that there is a time for everything of which war is specifically mentioned. Jesus told us in John 10 that he the Father and this is the Father's word thereby making them the words of Jesus. I fail to see how you can explain your way around this one because it's printed in the same blessed Bible that those words of Jesus are printed in.
I will not be in the place of killing any of my fellow Christians. I will not teach my children to do so either.
One may have to rightly question the "Christian" nature of a people that attack other Christians first. War today is not against Christians, it against those that want you dead but you won't even defend your own children. Where is defense of a children a sin??? Where???
Are you reading my posts at all? You are repeating the same kind of questions over and over. I will not repeat myself for same kind of argument. Please forgive me.
You know, you're right. Anyone who reads this thread can see the backward logic at work here; you're obviously not going to answer anything I say here. The real Word can be defended and it doesn't require drawing back into a shell to do so.
Do you realize that our main responsiblity is to reach out to the lost? Do you realize that we have to reach out to the non-believers?I just hope you reexamine your christianity. You don't seem to know what we have to do as Jesus' followers; this kind of mentality comes when your church is focused on majority and popularity based.
Mam, with all due respect, what do you think this website does? We've reached thousands of people here already and we've shared in the success with some amazing people. God is at work through this site, this has been my prayer since day one.Letting a nonbeliever tell you what to believe is not reaching out to a nonbeliever. That's following the old enemy, and he just loves to create that confusion, that babel.I have to take a moment to chuckle here because I don't often get told that my views are in the majority. I'll stick to God's Word and not tell others that they need to "reexamine" their Christianity. Perhaps you must not have made it to this verse yet:Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.There is only one Judge, leave it to Him.

 

[Christina]

[/I] just hope you reexamine your christianity. You don't seem to know what we have to do as Jesus' followers; What we are supposed to do is set an example as a good christain that means fighting and dying for our believes as well as love our enemy what do you think a mayter is if not someone willing to fight and die for his believes. this peace love doctrine of yours is taken to a level Christ did not live or teach however it is in line with Buddists monks

 

[Joyful]

Who is the judge of who is "winning"??? The majority or the administrator? I believe I am being biblical and you think you are. I am using the bible in a practical way, not just to argue with quotes from the Scriptures. The bible tells us that we know by our fruit if we are of God or not. 2% evangelism is not much of a Christinity, my friend. The Bible tells us to have nothing to do with fruitless deeds of darkness. When do you use Sciprtues in pracitcal way? There are tons of warnings in the Scriptures. Do you pay attention to them?

You know, you're right. Anyone who reads this thread can see the backward logic at work here; you're obviously not going to answer anything I say here. The real Word can be defended and it doesn't require drawing back into a shell to do so.

I believe I am speaking everything what I have to do for the Lord. I am not here to win arguments with anyone.

Mam, with all due respect, what do you think this website does? We've reached thousands of people here already and we've shared in the success with some amazing people. God is at work through this site, this has been my prayer since day one.

We don't know how God uses His people. It is my conviction that I have to speak what I have learned. Let's not be so puffed up that just because God uses us for one thing that we cannot be wrong.

Letting a nonbeliever tell you what to believe is not reaching out to a nonbeliever. That's following the old enemy, and he just loves to create that confusion, that babel.

I am so sorry you feel so hostile toward certain people.

I have to take a moment to chuckle here because I don't often get told that my views are in the majority. I'll stick to God's Word and not tell others that they need to "reexamine" their Christianity. Perhaps you must not have made it to this verse yet:

You are not one of the majority? Do you know that if anyone speaks against the military he will be ganged up on? This thread is evidence of this! Do you see anyone defending the view I'm presenting? Matthew 7:1

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

It is so funny that you don't seem to know what you are doing to me.

There is only one Judge, leave it to Him.

I am sorry but I have a duty to perform. I will not shirk it just because you are judging me, saying I am being judgmental. If I worried about people calling me judgemental, I would not be able to be Jesus' servant.I realize you are only 19 years old. I believe you are a little young to treat other older Christian the way you do. I am over 50 years old.

 

[Joyful]

[/I] just hope you reexamine your christianity. You don't seem to know what we have to do as Jesus' followers; What we are supposed to do is set an example as a good christain that means fighting and dying for our believes as well as love our enemy what do you think a mayter is if not someone willing to fight and die for his believes. this peace love doctrine of yours is taken to a level Christ did not live or teach however it is in line with Buddists monks

I am sorry I have to ignore your posts. I get so frustrated when I have to repeat myself. Please forgive me but dont expect any replies from me. If you are interested in my view all you have to do is to read my posts. I just hope you are not here to argue with me just because you don't like my thread and posts.

 

[HammerStone]

Am I allowed to argue with an admistrator? Am I going to be banned if I argue against you?
Give me a break. Are you banned now? Have your words been censored? I think not.It's just absolutely laughable now. You're telling an administrator, who not only owns the forum, but whose job it is to keep things offtopic that he is offtopic simply because you cannot find a defense for it. There's nothing more to say about this, it's obvious what's going on here.
We don't know how God uses His people. It is my conviction that I have to speak what I have learned. Let's not be so puffed up that just because God uses us for one thing that we cannot be wrong.
Now you're calling me puffed up after making some of the statements you have? I'm doing the same thing as you. I'm pointing out that you know absolutely nothing about what we do here and yet you're making all the judgments about everyone. You act is if you know it all so much so that you do not have a duty to elaborate on it. You don't cite Scriptures and you post here and say that Jesus said this or did that and it means this. I provide a few verses and you talk about me using Scripture.I know what your response will be, but the problem here is that you cannot back what you say up scripturally. You gave that up a long time ago in this thread and now your back is against the law and saying that's your interpretation over and over.How exactly can I use "there is a time for war" anyway I want? That's a pretty darn blunt statement from God's Word. It doesn't come from my mouth, it comes from His Holy Word! You cannot explain it for what it means and you haven't even tried to.
I am so sorry you feel so hostile toward certain people.
Nonsense again. However, know that I will never let someone who does not believe in our Lord Jesus the Christ tell me what I should believe about God and then listen to them. Who are you listening to; these people or the Bible? It sounds to me like you've human influence control how you look at the Word. That's a good way to get into trouble quickly.
I am sorry but I have a duty to perform. I will not shirk it just because you are judging me, saying I am being judgmental. If I worried about people calling me judgemental, I would not be able to be Jesus' servant.
Again, with all due respect, I'm not telling people here they need to go reexamine their Christianity. You will notice that I have quite vehemently attacked what you have said because I do not believe it to Biblical by any stretch of the imagination. However, I have never judged you nor judged your Christianity. I have never made a comment about your Christianity because it is absolutely not my place to do so. I do not know your relationship with God and He is the only judge.It's also not judging when you can document the statement of you telling me that. You said it, not me.
I realize you are only 19 years old. I believe you are a little young to treat other older Christian the way you do. I am over 50 years old.
If you really desire to bring age into it, there are at least two members in this thread older than you. I respect my elders, mam, and I don't like to bring criticism against them in the open, but this is a forum and when you post something like this and attack and judge the people I know and love, there's a serious issue.You brought the question here and opened things up for the response. Are than any other excuses that you would like to bring up to avoid the topic?

 

[Christina]

I realize you are only 19 years old. I believe you are a little young to treat other older Christian the way you do. I am over 50 years old.[quote debating your believe is one thing but I can not let this Statement Go YOU may be over 50 and think that in itself gives you some special knowledge Well it does not, it does not give you anymore knowledge of Gods word than a younger person it only gives you more life experenice. I am also older as are many other people on this site an Swampfox has NEVER treated me or anyone else on this site with anything but respect.Just because you do not agree with his veiw on this subject TO ACCUSE HIM OF DISRESPECT TO YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR AGE IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE AND WRONG. I on the other hand say it is you that dare show the disrespect that because of his age he should stop teaching what God has put on his heart.I Completely agree with him an assure you I am neither 19 nor male.

 

[Joyful]

(SwampFox;6151)
Give me a break. Are you banned now? Have your words been censored? I think not.It's just absolutely laughable now. You're telling an administrator, who not only owns the forum, but whose job it is to keep things offtopic that he is offtopic simply because you cannot find a defense for it. There's nothing more to say about this, it's obvious what's going on here.Now you're calling me puffed up after making some of the statements you have? I'm doing the same thing as you. I'm pointing out that you know absolutely nothing about what we do here and yet you're making all the judgments about everyone. You act is if you know it all so much so that you do not have a duty to elaborate on it. You don't cite Scriptures and you post here and say that Jesus said this or did that and it means this. I provide a few verses and you talk about me using Scripture.I know what your response will be, but the problem here is that you cannot back what you say up scripturally. You gave that up a long time ago in this thread and now your back is against the law and saying that's your interpretation over and over.How exactly can I use "there is a time for war" anyway I want? That's a pretty darn blunt statement from God's Word. It doesn't come from my mouth, it comes from His Holy Word! You cannot explain it for what it means and you haven't even tried to.Nonsense again. However, know that I will never let someone who does not believe in our Lord Jesus the Christ tell me what I should believe about God and then listen to them. Who are you listening to; these people or the Bible? It sounds to me like you've human influence control how you look at the Word. That's a good way to get into trouble quickly.Again, with all due respect, I'm not telling people here they need to go reexamine their Christianity. You will notice that I have quite vehemently attacked what you have said because I do not believe it to Biblical by any stretch of the imagination. However, I have never judged you nor judged your Christianity. I have never made a comment about your Christianity because it is absolutely not my place to do so. I do not know your relationship with God and He is the only judge.It's also not judging when you can document the statement of you telling me that. You said it, not me.If you really desire to bring age into it, there are at least two members in this thread older than you. I respect my elders, mam, and I don't like to bring criticism against them in the open, but this is a forum and when you post something like this and attack and judge the people I know and love, there's a serious issue.You brought the question here and opened things up for the response. Are than any other excuses that you would like to bring up to avoid the topic?
OK, Mr Swamp, I understand your feelings about me and your position. I will stay firm in my position. I stated a lot of what I feel I have to say. I am not here to convince you how I am right and you are wrong.I will respond to anyone who comes here to discuss without hostility.

 

[Christina]

How old was David when he faced Goliath or is that another scripture you do not choose to read because David didn't just spred love to Goliath?In case you need a reminder David was the only one with enough faith.reguardless of his age.

 

[Christina]

WHy don't you show me in scripture where you have to be over 5o or a certain age to know Gods word /heart. Oh wait what was that about come to me with the heart and mind of a child. or was that another part of scripture you forgot?

 

[Christina]

Funny the way you think its O.K. for young men to die so you can keep your freedom. Now we see why you think thats O.K obviously in your mind these younger men and women can't possably be the Christian you are with your years of experience. I never read that in Gods word. Makes it pretty clear to me who the true Christain is here.And its not you Nothing you have said is based in scripture it all some man made point of view you have decided that is what God would want no matter how much of Gods word you are given to the contrary you stay in your unscriptural opinions.

 

[Joyful]

I would like to comment about young Christians who are in the Christian board do not show much respect to older Christians. And others dont seem to care if they are behaving so arrogantly as long as they are on their side. It is so sad it seems like it is all about winning the arguments. I never win the arguments because my view is minority.I am just expressing how we are witnessing to others. If we have such an arrogant attitude, we cannot evangelize for the Lord. Christianity is mostly about humility. Jesus was humble enough to die for everyone. He did not kill anyone in exchange.All my posts are from an evangelistic point of view. I have been evangelizing since I became Christian several years ago. It is not so hard to understand what Jesus wants us to do as His servants.

 

[Joyful]

I did respond to everyone as much as I can without losing my cool. It is not good witnessing for the Lord to go into never-ending ugly arguments. It is not Jesus' way. Jesus never forced anyone to listen to Him.So far, this thread is becoming nothing but an ugly fight.

 

[HammerStone]

I would like to comment about young Christians who are in the Christian board do not show much respect to older Christians.
Your round -about comments really grow tiring. If you have something to say about me, address me. I am the "young Christian" here that you are talking about so let's not play the game here. Judge me if you want, means a hill of beans to me because you are not the Judge. You're not the only elder I have discussed and debated and you are the first to complain about a "lack of respect." I guess the others are all wrong again. Now that we have this established that you want to ridicule and attack me in any way you can, let's move on.Being in the minority doesn't make you right. I'd like to point out that there's a minority out there that thinks God's a woman. There's a minority out there that says Satan doesn't exist (as you have witnessed). There's a minority out there that says God condones homosexuals and what they do. I think these are points we can probably agree on (I know at least on one we do) but there are people who believe this ardently. The majority is not always right, but neither is the minority. The only thing that is always right is God.Now, I'm trying to stay away from attacking you because it's not the right thing to do. You are wrong, we've expressed our viewpoints, and I will not apologize or change what I believe. You have stated the same. Our points have been made.However, I do want to juxtapose something here, just for the sake of documentation:
If we have such an arrogant attitude, we cannot evangelize for the Lord.

All my posts are from an evangelistic point of view. I have been evangelizing since I became Christian several years ago. It is not so hard to understand what Jesus wants us to do as His servants.
Now, this is coming from the same person who is, in a nutshell, telling me that I am not qualified and do not show respect to you. Now, if I had wanted to pursue this course, I could have banned you and ridiculed what you said a long time ago. You don't even know how long I have been a Christian!That's about all I can say.