Miracles and certain spiritual gifts

[Paul Christensen]

Good point / comment.
- I agree.
---
It is interesting to note.. as you mentioned.
- There was 'manifestation of spiritual gifts'..
from time to time.. in Christian history.
- Even under suppression by 'church establishment.'

There is a good, well researched book called "2000 Years Of Charismatic Christianity" by Eddie Hyatt. This book gives a good, unbiased view of the different movements that had the characteristics of Charismatic Christianity. Well worth obtaining and reading. Most standard church histories are Cessationist, and therefore leave out information that does not support their view.

 

[Pathfinder7]

There is a good, well researched book called "2000 Years Of Charismatic Christianity" by Eddie Hyatt. This book gives a good, unbiased view of the different movements that had the characteristics of Charismatic Christianity. Well worth obtaining and reading. Most standard church histories are Cessationist, and therefore leave out information that does not support their view.

I have the book.
- One of the best..on that subject.
---
I am working on book project.
- One part is on 'Spiritual Awakening movements in Christian history.
During.. some of those movements, there was manifestation of spiritual gifts.
- Even though, not much emphasis on 'spiritual gifts'..like Pentecostal movement.

 

[farouk]

The Holy Spirit is part of that doctrine....and whatever the Holy Spirit represents is still here. Don't you agree?

What the Spirit inspired is a matter of Scripture record. So if we are going to be led of the Spirit it will be in accordance with the all-sufficient Scripture record.

This is how I see it.

 

[Waiting on him]

What the Spirit inspired is a matter of Scripture record. So if we are going to be led of the Spirit it will be in accordance with the all-sufficient Scripture record.

This is how I see it.

Temperance is a fruit of the Holy Spirit

 

[Truther]

Thanks for your opinion Truther.

You are welcome friend.

 

[amadeus]

I believe the KJV is the perfect word of God in English, which God gave to mankind for a witness of His word that endureth forever per the writings of Peter.

The alternative you are proposing is the word of God is subjective and does not endure forever, since the actual word of God is perfect.

Your position also allows you and modernists to be closet translators, which adds to the scriptural chaos that already exists.

Since I first received the Holy Ghost in 1976 I have been also reading the Bible. I do read and study the KJV, but a sincere atheist could do that and not hear from God at all remaining always in his place of death.

I agree that the Word of God is perfect. The problem is that we are not. Until we come to know God, we are blind and deaf. We can read the Bible without understanding His message even though it is written in English our primary language. You call this a closet translator, but I call it allowing the Holy Ghost to lead me and to interpret what I read or study.

People actually do what you say. They read the Bible and do their own interpretations of it. The key to avoiding this that I have found is to talk to God as I read and study asking for His help so that I will not be blind and I will not be deaf. The Spirit must be in our search for Truth in scripture or we, like the sincere atheist, will not hear from God.

No, the Word of God is not subjective. The message in it for us is from God, but even if it is written in the best English, our understanding of it must be by the Holy Ghost. When a person is first born of God [born again] he is a baby and knows nothing, but He is God's child needing to grow. As our allotted time here passes we must grow toward Him. Not to grown is to stagnate and die.

I find this growth in my Bible reading combined always with a submission to the Holy Ghost. When people presume that they have it all when they first meet the Master, they will soon discover trouble for themselves. It is like a baby that grows up physically but never matures in the things of God remaining selfish, sinful and ignorant. That is where the Bible and the Holy Ghost can come into the picture and make the difference. Ministers can help, but the minister must also have been growing toward God to be able to correctly help. If the minister is false or immature he can be worse than nothing.

I believe that you know more now that when you first believed. You are no longer a baby in Christ for you have grown as Jesus did [Luke 2:52]. But you cannot stop increasing in God as I cannot... not while time remains to us.

 

[Episkopos]

the burden of proof is now on you to provide us all with a list of genuine APOSTLES AND PROPHETS operating today

An unbeliever's stance and foolishness. You can't prove the non-existence of what you are unable to perceive. Atheists will say the same thing you do about God. They claim that the burden of proof is on believers for proving there's a God. Same logic as you have. That should tell you something about your own mind.

There are spiritual Christians out there...rare as they may be. God still visits people and anoints them for His work...maybe not where fundamentalism has taken root.

The burden is on the un-believers in the abundant grace of God that equips for a spiritual ministry...to go through the whole world to disprove that God is not as active as He was in the early church. I suggest China and Iran for starters.

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe the KJV is the perfect word of God in English

you believe Yah authorized the scribing of Passover into a celebration of the goddess' "Easter"s fertility rites? ok

 

[bbyrd009]

So once again the burden of proof is for you to provide a list of these in your own church, and give us specifics for their miracles with dates.

Colin Kaepernick, i could dig up a date if you like i guess

 

[Heart2Soul]

IMHO the ministry of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit were pure and undefiled until the first split of the Church that Jesus laid the foundation for and that we were charged to build upon. As churches continued to split, new teachings, new doctrines (of men) and new forms of "Christians" started defiling what was once pure and Holy and undefiled. The Holy Spirit, who is the one who administers "HIS" gifts, has been given a bad reputation through misuse of those gifts. How did the gifts begin to become so misused? Doctrines of men...lack of teaching/discipling....preaching it without practicing what is preached. How do we get back to the proper function of the gifts within the church? Teaching!
In Revelation 19 the Angel told John not to worship him for he is a fellowservant that has the testimony of Jesus....and he told him what that was...the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesy.
In Revelation 22 we see another declaration of the same thing with a slight difference in that the Angel said he is of thy brethren the prophets....

Revelation 19
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 22
8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

God's Word says He will establish His Word by 2 or 3 witnesses....

Revelation 19 and Revelation 22 are 2 separate witnesses with the same message.....how can we know....
Revelation 19 is a voice from heaven....
5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

To find the identity of the other witness you have to start in chapter 21 which ties in with Chapter 22
Revelation 21
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,


How sad it is that religion throughout history has distorted the message God gave us in His Holy Word to live by....I pray that you will become hungry to seek Truth....Seek Him while He may be found....Let the Holy Spirit guide you and teach you the truth for He is also called the Spirit of Truth.

 

[Truther]

you believe Yah authorized the scribing of Passover into a celebration of the goddess' "Easter"s fertility rites? ok

The KJV translators used "Easter" as a pascha feast description exclusively for the Christians per 1 Cor 11.

It had no other meaning to them.

The latter "occultists" hijacked the word.

 

[Truther]

Since I first received the Holy Ghost in 1976 I have been also reading the Bible. I do read and study the KJV, but a sincere atheist could do that and not hear from God at all remaining always in his place of death.

I agree that the Word of God is perfect. The problem is that we are not. Until we come to know God, we are blind and deaf. We can read the Bible without understanding His message even though it is written in English our primary language. You call this a closet translator, but I call it allowing the Holy Ghost to lead me and to interpret what I read or study.

People actually do what you say. They read the Bible and do their own interpretations of it. The key to avoiding this that I have found is to talk to God as I read and study asking for His help so that I will not be blind and I will not be deaf. The Spirit must be in our search for Truth in scripture or we, like the sincere atheist, will not hear from God.

No, the Word of God is not subjective. The message in it for us is from God, but even if it is written in the best English, our understanding of it must be by the Holy Ghost. When a person is first born of God [born again] he is a baby and knows nothing, but He is God's child needing to grow. As our allotted time here passes we must grow toward Him. Not to grown is to stagnate and die.

I find this growth in my Bible reading combined always with a submission to the Holy Ghost. When people presume that they have it all when they first meet the Master, they will soon discover trouble for themselves. It is like a baby that grows up physically but never matures in the things of God remaining selfish, sinful and ignorant. That is where the Bible and the Holy Ghost can come into the picture and make the difference. Ministers can help, but the minister must also have been growing toward God to be able to correctly help. If the minister is false or immature he can be worse than nothing.

I believe that you know more now that when you first believed. You are no longer a baby in Christ for you have grown as Jesus did [Luke 2:52]. But you cannot stop increasing in God as I cannot... not while time remains to us.

I honor your walk with God and you receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost some 3 years before I did.

Funny though, the Spirit of God led me to the KJV translation from the start as God's perfect word, now folks are saying the Holy Ghost is leading them into multiversionism, redefinitions and Bible free ideas.

Fishy, wouldn't you say?

 

[amadeus]

I honor your walk with God and you receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost some 3 years before I did.

Funny though, the Spirit of God led me to the KJV translation from the start as God's perfect word, now folks are saying the Holy Ghost is leading them into multiversionism, redefinitions and Bible free ideas.

Fishy, wouldn't you say?

People do have mixtures of Truth and nonsense or the knowledge or men. This comes from quenching the Holy Ghost/Spirit and taking in garbage along side what they have received from God. When a person quenches the Holy Ghost, they stop the work in them necessary to make them pure, complete and perfect.

Most churches routinely teach their members to quench the Holy Spirit when they set up their own rules for how their services are conducted. Some individuals in many of the groups still stay in touch of with the Lord and follow Him, but the tighter the rules of the group or leadership, the more difficult it is and then we come back to needing to hear...."Come out of her my people that ye be not partakers of her sins...".

 

[Pearl]

I honor your walk with God and you receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost some 3 years before I did.

Funny though, the Spirit of God led me to the KJV translation from the start as God's perfect word, now folks are saying the Holy Ghost is leading them into multiversionism, redefinitions and Bible free ideas.

Fishy, wouldn't you say?

Why is it fishy? In my view the KJV is old fashioned and uses stilted English. I don't think God's 'perfect word' is confined to Jacobean English, There are enough modern translations around today and it's up to the individual to choose which best suits them. My first bible as a new Christian was the Good News which I still use occasionally but now preferring the NIV or NLT.

 

[bbyrd009]

The KJV translators used "Easter" as a pascha feast description exclusively for the Christians per 1 Cor 11.

It had no other meaning to them.

The latter "occultists" hijacked the word.

maybe, but Passover is still right there, in the original, eh

 

[reformed1689]

So then we need nothing at all? Without the power of God man does so very well all of the time? Is it that there is no crime in the streets? Is it that there is no lust of the flesh, nor lust of the eyes nor pride of life in any man tempting him any more to sin? You don't really believe that, do you? If you do, why are you still wearing clothes? Who told you that you were naked?

Strawman

 

[reformed1689]

Are you saying that your vision is flawlessly clear? If that is so, would it not also be so that you never stumble nor do anything that would displease God... like sin?

Didn't say that. Just pointing out that you ALWAYS overly emphasize see through a glass darkly as if we cannot be 100% certain of anything...

 

[amadeus]

Strawman

What does a character from the Wizard of Oz have to do with it?

 

[amadeus]

Didn't say that. Just pointing out that you ALWAYS overly emphasize see through a glass darkly as if we cannot be 100% certain of anything...

I emphasize it because it is so written. Jesus saw the man's need and touched his eyes again. How many times do we need to have our eyes touched? How many times will we have our eyes touched? How many of us have eyes?

 

[bbyrd009]

Didn't say that. Just pointing out that you ALWAYS overly emphasize see through a glass darkly as if we cannot be 100% certain of anything...

he who says he knows, does not