Miracles and certain spiritual gifts

[Truther]

ok then, i get it, you get it completely, etc. I'm pretty sure i get like about <5% prolly, and i seem to know less as the years go by, instead of more! lol

Just hang out with me...I will teach you all things grasshopper.

LOL

 

[bbyrd009]

yeh, yikes lol

seems like the gifts were more fallen out of use there, rather than unilaterally "rescinded" as is being forwarded? idk

 

[Waiting on him]

yeh, yikes lol

seems like the gifts were more fallen out of use there, rather than unilaterally "rescinded" as is being forwarded? idk

Typically the way it is when self edification is the goal.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

?
the things that are shaken are removed, and the things that remain cannot be shaken?
may have been cleared up already though :)

Seems to line up with 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. [9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. [10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

 

[reformed1689]

prolly not the best characterization of 1 Corinthians 13:8 Lexicon: Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. fwiw. Why would these "certain gifts" specifically be "done away" with, and not the others, iyo?
which you cannot Quote, yeh. For a really good reason, imo, which is why you are likely right, it is not debatable at all; you have just been deceived too, like the rest of us

They are the sign gifts. They are no longer needed.

 

[reformed1689]

Yes and you would say probably that happened when all of the Bible was written. But I would say that for any of us it will not have happened until all of the Word of God required is written in our hearts.

"Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:" Eph 4:13-15

Here we go with the see trhough the glass darkly bit again...broken record...

 

[reformed1689]

"...When He that is Perfect has come..."...only then shall the in-part be done away with ...and no longer needed. Cor 13

Pretty sure the word "he" is not in the verse.

 

[reformed1689]

The day will come that God will remove the Holy Spirit from the earth and there will be tribulation like never before...the gifts will cease because His Spirit is removed.

Scripture?

 

[bbyrd009]

Scripture?

prolly not :)

 

[Heart2Soul]

prolly not :)

This topic has a thread created for it....it is off topic to the OP of this thread.

 

[amadeus]

@Truther

You are letting us know where you are in this. That's OK as everyone else does as well. The important thing is that we are on the approach to God during all of the time which remains to us. Of course, some, as I see it, deny that we have a choice in the matter. Some believe, or say they believe, that they already have it all.

Which Bible is... "that which is perfect is come"?

Shall we discard the Bible because it is written in our heart?

Do you really believe that the Word of God in any written Book is perfect or complete? If you lose your Bible have you lost all that you had? If it "all" really were written on our hearts, what more would we need? Should a person then continue to grow toward God by reading his Bible and talking with God and allowing the Holy Ghost have the reign?

Having said that, who among us on this forum or any other setting has it "all" written in his heart? But, on the other hand if God is in us, what are our limits? Our limits are the ones we put on God by quenching the Holy Spirit in us... .

When is it that a person has received "all" that God has to give him? Perhaps when he limits own faith by saying it cannot be done.

Consider Solomon's words here:

"But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?" I Kings 8:27

God could not fit in that magnificent temple? Can God or His Word fit in the temple which we are... this little bit of earth? Perhaps not, and yet I doubt that anyone has been so full of God that he could not hold even more. Would not God be able to make more room if necessary and appropriate?

Did the 120 in the upper room etc, cease to speak with tongues when the word was written in their hearts?

You really are missing an important point here:

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." I Cor 13:8-10

The tongues will leave us when that which is perfect is come.

God who is perfect is already here. He is everywhere and always has been so it is Not speaking of that.

It is not speaking of a written manuscript or book such as the Bible for the Bible does not know a thing or do a thing by itself... even if it contains truth. Even if it does contain truth, the conflicts between individuals and denominations indicates that it is not perfect or complete in them. The Bible can be described as a powerful book, but that power is only potential power which can become reality when it is quickened by the Holy Spirit in a person who reads or hears it.

All of us here who believe in God and His Son have a part as per the verses I just quoted, but who has the complete or perfect thing? You @Truther ? Disagreements occur among believers because they each have less than the whole loaf and they often or usually fill in the gaps with their own opinions and/or carnal deductions.

 

[amadeus]

Here we go with the see trhough the glass darkly bit again...broken record...

Are you saying that your vision is flawlessly clear? If that is so, would it not also be so that you never stumble nor do anything that would displease God... like sin?

 

[Helen]

Pretty sure the word "he" is not in the verse.

I can go with that...but do you know anything else in this world that is Perfect..if not He Himself? What else is "coming" which will be perfect?
For me there is only One good, and One perfect.

 

[amadeus]

ok then, i get it, you get it completely, etc. I'm pretty sure i get like about <5% prolly, and i seem to know less as the years go by, instead of more! lol

Yes, the more we become aware and learn about God and the things of God, the more clearly it comes to us that we really know very little at all. God doesn't fit in that box we want to put Him in... Saying that we know 5% is also probably way too high. Are we not talking about God? For example what does His face look like? Yet, He told David to seek His face. Can we seek it without being able to recognize it? Apostle Paul speaks of the "then face to face" but who has a clue as to exactly what he be seeing assuming he ever attains to that point? Help us dear Lord!

 

[amadeus]

They are the sign gifts. They are no longer needed.

So then we need nothing at all? Without the power of God man does so very well all of the time? Is it that there is no crime in the streets? Is it that there is no lust of the flesh, nor lust of the eyes nor pride of life in any man tempting him any more to sin? You don't really believe that, do you? If you do, why are you still wearing clothes? Who told you that you were naked?

 

[Waiting on him]

@Truther

You are letting us know where you are in this. That's OK as everyone else does as well. The important thing is that we are on the approach to God during all of the time which remains to us. Of course, some, as I see it, deny that we have a choice in the matter. Some believe, or say they believe, that they already have it all.


Do you really believe that the Word of God in any written Book is perfect or complete? If you lose your Bible have you lost all that you had? If it "all" really were written on our hearts, what more would we need? Should a person then continue to grow toward God by reading his Bible and talking with God and allowing the Holy Ghost have the reign?

Having said that, who among us on this forum or any other setting has it "all" written in his heart? But, on the other hand if God is in us, what are our limits? Our limits are the ones we put on God by quenching the Holy Spirit in us... .

When is it that a person has received "all" that God has to give him? Perhaps when he limits own faith by saying it cannot be done.

Consider Solomon's words here:

"But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?" I Kings 8:27

God could not fit in that magnificent temple? Can God or His Word fit in the temple which we are... this little bit of earth? Perhaps not, and yet I doubt that anyone has been so full of God that he could not hold even more. Would not God be able to make more room if necessary and appropriate?



You really are missing an important point here:

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." I Cor 13:8-10

The tongues will leave us when that which is perfect is come.

God who is perfect is already here. He is everywhere and always has been so it is Not speaking of that.

It is not speaking of a written manuscript or book such as the Bible for the Bible does not know a thing or do a thing by itself... even if it contains truth. Even if it does contain truth, the conflicts between individuals and denominations indicates that it is not perfect or complete in them. The Bible can be described as a powerful book, but that power is only potential power which can become reality when it is quickened by the Holy Spirit in a person who reads or hears it.

All of us here who believe in God and His Son have a part as per the verses I just quoted, but who has the complete or perfect thing? You @Truther ? Disagreements occur among believers because they each have less than the whole loaf and they often or usually fill in the gaps with their own opinions and/or carnal deductions.

ok, Paul strongly exhorts the Jews in Hebrews 6 too move to perfection. Why would he encourage them to do something if it's impossible?

 

[amadeus]

ok, Paul strongly exhorts the Jews in Hebrews 6 too move to perfection. Why would he encourage them to do something if it's impossible?

Indeed!

What is impossible for God? If God is in us holding our reins, what is impossible for us?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

 

[OzSpen]

Why do you believe it is only seen among one religious group. Why not lutherans, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc,,,,,

WIH,

This is not true. In my country there are charismatic Baptists, Churches of Christ, Christian & Missionary Alliance, Anglican, Uniting Church and Roman Catholics.

Oz

 

[Timtofly]

I can go with that...but do you know anything else in this world that is Perfect..if not He Himself? What else is "coming" which will be perfect?
For me there is only One good, and One perfect.

The Holy Spirit was already here, and told Paul that when the Bible was completed, it would be that which is perfect. Revelation would be complete. God’s Word on earth would be complete, and humans would not be without excuse. Unless the Bible was withheld and the seed not planted all over the world.

 

[OzSpen]

ok, Paul strongly exhorts the Jews in Hebrews 6 too move to perfection. Why would he encourage them to do something if it's impossible?

What is your understanding of 'perfection' in Heb 6:1?