Miracles, Signs and Wonders

[kcnalp]

Is it any wonder a church that doesn't believe in miracles doesn't see miracles?

 

[Waiting on him]

What do you attribute them to?

Encouraged Lunacy.

 

[Waiting on him]

this is definitely some form of mental illness.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Why ‘greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues...’ unless he interpret so the whole profit? is interpret the same as prophesieth ‘But now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, unless I speak to you either by way of revelation, or of knowledge, or of prophesying, or of teaching?’

could be wrong but the whole of that passage is pointing to prophesieth and not tongues itself. An urging towards not tongues but for another's gain. (Imo) something significant is there throughout the word, a commonality, in the OT and the New, very profoundly seen and fully demonstrated in Jesus Christ, and that is ‘interpretation’ and what and why and when it is needful. Jesus Christ spoke and they gathered, even the disciples, and they looked around baffled asking ‘what is He saying?’ No one could understand so what did He speak? He could be in a crowd and spoke and still today there is a grappling and endless debates for the meaning of what’s spoken. What is given throughout the word as needing an interpreter? Why is an interpreter needed, UNLESS what is spoken needs an interpretation? ‘Needs interpretation’ because why? Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

how do they not understand? Did Jesus Christ speak and others could not understand what He said? Did Jesus Christ speak in an unknown tongue? (Imo) yes He did. John 5:37-38 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. [38] And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

certainly it will be dismissed but again consider how throughout the word it is spoken of how, where and when an interpreter is necessary for the whole built up and edified ‘in Christ’. What is the whole focus of ‘interpreter’ and the demonstrated lack of one?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

1 Corinthians 14:16-18 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? [17] For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. [18] I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

‘I speak with tongues more than you all’ where in scripture is this confirmed? Paul speaks in tongues? Consider
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (Connecting to ‘how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen’

Why ‘things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest’ ? Why, even here, is it said Paul is hard to understand? Is an interpreter needed to understand? 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. [21] In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Did Jesus Christ speak in an unknown tongue? (Imo) yes He did. John 5:37-38 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. [38] And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

His voice ...when you have never heard it, how then will you understand something you never heard before? 1 Corinthians 2:13-14 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Waiting on him]

1 Corinthians 14:16-18 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? [17] For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. [18] I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

‘I speak with tongues more than you all’ where in scripture is this confirmed? Paul speaks in tongues? Consider
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (Connecting to ‘how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen’

Why ‘things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest’ ? Why, even here, is it said Paul is hard to understand? Is an interpreter needed to understand? 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. [21] In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Did Jesus Christ speak in an unknown tongue? (Imo) yes He did. John 5:37-38 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. [38] And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

His voice ...when you have never heard it, how then will you understand something you never heard before? 1 Corinthians 2:13-14 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Like the new avatar.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I stopped watching the TV preachers many years ago. They were all begging for money.

I know what you mean. We are not even to have lunch with an extortionist. 1 Cor. 5.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Why ‘greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues...’ unless he interpret so the whole profit? is interpret the same as prophesieth ‘But now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, unless I speak to you either by way of revelation, or of knowledge, or of prophesying, or of teaching?’

could be wrong but the whole of that passage is pointing to prophesieth and not tongues itself. An urging towards not tongues but for another's gain. (Imo) something significant is there throughout the word, a commonality, in the OT and the New, very profoundly seen and fully demonstrated in Jesus Christ, and that is ‘interpretation’ and what and why and when it is needful. Jesus Christ spoke and they gathered, even the disciples, and they looked around baffled asking ‘what is He saying?’ No one could understand so what did He speak? He could be in a crowd and spoke and still today there is a grappling and endless debates for the meaning of what’s spoken. What is given throughout the word as needing an interpreter? Why is an interpreter needed, UNLESS what is spoken needs an interpretation? ‘Needs interpretation’ because why? Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

how do they not understand? Did Jesus Christ speak and others could not understand what He said? Did Jesus Christ speak in an unknown tongue? (Imo) yes He did. John 5:37-38 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. [38] And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

certainly it will be dismissed but again consider how throughout the word it is spoken of how, where and when an interpreter is necessary for the whole built up and edified ‘in Christ’. What is the whole focus of ‘interpreter’ and the demonstrated lack of one?

Yes, you are correct. The chapter is not against tongues, but against using your individual prayer language TO God of Mark 16:17 out loud in a meeting, rather than when you are alone, or quietly in prayer. 1 Cor. 14:23. Paul is saying that in a meeting all together, only the message tongues of 1 Cor. 12 FROM God is to be used, with someone with the gift of interpretation present to give the message from God. And seeing as this is an office, not many will have these two gifts 1 Cor. 14:30, so only 2-3, and 1 interpreter. And yes, interpretation is equal to prophecy, and what this chapter is referring to when referring to prophecy.

 

[marks]

Well, that one was easy.

18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all.

Yes! Thank you!

Perfect example! Paul is mentioning his speaking in tongues in a teaching moment. When there is a context in edifying someone, absolutely!

Much love!

 

[marks]

If you have seen healing miracles in answer to prayer, then that is perfectly correct and in accordance with the fact that God has not stopped His direct healing miracles. They probably occur daily.

But we are talking about miracle workers within the churches. Where are all the miracle workers who should be in the hospitals clearing out the patients? Do you have any news items which speak about this?

"Many years ago, Oral Roberts came to our city with his “miracle working” campaign. We ran a newspaper advertisement offering a $1,000 reward for medical proof of a single miracle. Roberts never sought to claim the reward. He subsequently went back to Tulsa and established a hospital in which to treat the sick!"
Modern Miracles-True or False?

It's the difference between gifts of the Spirit for edifying the church, and signs and wonders for making the Gospel known.

I still say that the whole "signs and wonders" question is answerable with simple observation. I'm not seeing any. I don't just mean in my locale, but modern internet, everybody with their smart phone tracker/indoctrinators taking video of every last little thing? Where exactly are these signs and wonders?

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

It's the difference between gifts of the Spirit for edifying the church, and signs and wonders for making the Gospel known.

I still say that the whole "signs and wonders" question is answerable with simple observation. I'm not seeing any. I don't just mean in my locale, but modern internet, everybody with their smart phone tracker/indoctrinators taking video of every last little thing? Where exactly are these signs and wonders?

Much love!

Wasn’t it only Israel that required signs and wonders?

 

[Waiting on him]

It's the difference between gifts of the Spirit for edifying the church, and signs and wonders for making the Gospel known.

I still say that the whole "signs and wonders" question is answerable with simple observation. I'm not seeing any. I don't just mean in my locale, but modern internet, everybody with their smart phone tracker/indoctrinators taking video of every last little thing? Where exactly are these signs and wonders?

Much love!

In your experience of the Gospel revealed, was it accompanied with signs and wonders?

 

[Waiting on him]

I personally believe that the signs and wonders would be the Jew receiving a full revelation of Jesus Christ as viewd from the Hebrew Bible.

imagine a Jew their whole life reading and studying the Hebrew Bible, then suddenly being indwelt with the Spirit of God! This would be a miraculous revelation as the Holy Spirit interprets.

 

[Heart2Soul]

fulfilled at Pentecost and during the time of the Apostles.

Remember the end times began after His 1st Coming during the era of the Apostles.

When are you guys going to comprehend that the Apostles had NO POWER TO PERFORM ANY MIRACLES! IT WAS THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH THEM JUST LIKE IT IS THE SAME HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH US MANIFESTING HIS POWER!

 

[Waiting on him]

When are you guys going to comprehend that the Apostles had NO POWER TO PERFORM ANY MIRACLES! IT WAS THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH THEM JUST LIKE IT IS THE SAME HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH US MANIFESTING HIS POWER!

Please refer to post 233

 

[Heart2Soul]

Please refer to post 233

Not relevant to the main topic of my post.

 

[Heart2Soul]

And here is a real complicated and hard to understand truth...
JESUS DID NOT PERFORM ANY MIRACLES UNTIL AFTER HE WAS BAPTIZED AND ANOINTED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

 

[Waiting on him]

And here is a real complicated and hard to understand truth...
JESUS DID NOT PERFORM ANY MIRACLES UNTIL AFTER HE WAS BAPTIZED AND ANOINTED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Are you serious?

 

[marks]

Wasn’t it only Israel that required signs and wonders?

That's my understanding.

Much love!

 

[marks]

In your experience of the Gospel revealed, was it accompanied with signs and wonders?

Do you mean to me personally? No.

In fact, it was my new age nonsense that was producing material effects. But in my conversion to Christianity, it was all about realizing what was true, based on the Words from the Book.

Much love!