Missing Scripture

[ScottA]

There are some people I study the Bible with who have a fair amount of understanding of Hebrew. One thing I've noticed is that listening to them talk about some of the "deeper" things they see in the Hebrew it remind me of the proverbial rabbis each with their own interpretation, and each having even more than one interpretation, until there are so many ideas floating around it's hard to know what's what.

I'm sure the native speaker got much more out of it, just the same, that Hebrew is a dead language, and there is no such thing as a native speaker. And there are many many ways it seems to interpret it.

It seems that with the Koine Greek there is much greater specificity in the language. While also a dead language, it is so very much more precise than the Hebrew, again, to the non-native speaker.

Much love!

"All" language has been "confounded" by God, and must therefore "be discerned spiritually."

 

[marks]

I will answer cautiously. Please don't misunderstand.

What I am saying is that what is written is true, that One has prevailed to open the "scroll" and that "little book" which we now refer to as the word of God, and that "all truth" and even "the mind of Christ" is and has been available to us. As for me, I can only do my part, reveal my part. Whether it is small or great, I do not know. But I do know that what is revealed in due season is true, whether from me or whether the stones begin to speak, and thousands of false teachers and prophets change nothing.

But don't look at me or any other as if we do anything but carry our own stone to the wall. We do not. Even a chosen stone is just a stone.

So then in your small way, as a vessel that carries water, you bring revelation to add to the understanding of Scripture. I'm I getting this right?

I appreciate both your caution and willingness to respond. I do not want to misunderstand.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

So then in your small way, as a vessel that carries water, you bring revelation to add to the understanding of Scripture. I'm I getting this right?

I appreciate both your caution and willingness to respond. I do not want to misunderstand.

Much love!

That is correct...because I claim nothing to be my own. But that is not to say that any one person in the service of God is not a part, because He has made us part...which is truly amazing. We also should realize that we live in a critical time, perhaps the tipping point...which I know better than to suggest as only "perhaps", but do suggest so that it be considered reasonable. All things written of will indeed be fulfilled and made manifest with signs.

But "bringing revelation to add to the understanding of Scripture" is easily misunderstood. If we take something as basic as marriage or as complex as the coming of Christ, and explore the way that the mystery of what was written and practiced was a foreshadowing by previous scripture, a reasonable person should understand that the revelation of their full meaning was not take well in spite of it being the truth. In fact, if not for the curse of adding to the prophecies of Revelation given to John...we should have been completely over our tenancy to kill the prophets. Yet that curse has always been in place. The point is, the Holy Spirit has been active the whole time, and we have been told that He will in fact increase during our time. So, where is the balance struck...at no prophecy, or all prophecy? Well, we have the answer already. And so there is just the matter of the written curse given by John in Revelation. Which I would say is not to stop all, but to warn all. And I concur.

 

[marks]

That is correct...because I claim nothing to be my own. But that is not to say that any one person in the service of God is not a part, because He has made us part...which is truly amazing. We also should realize that we live in a critical time, perhaps the tipping point...which I know better than to suggest as only "perhaps", but do suggest so that it be considered reasonable. All things written of will indeed be fulfilled and made manifest with signs.

But "bringing revelation to add to the understanding of Scripture" is easily misunderstood. If we take something as basic as marriage or as complex as the coming of Christ, and explore the way that the mystery of what was written and practiced was a foreshadowing by previous scripture, a reasonable person should understand that the revelation of their full meaning was not take well in spite of it being the truth. In fact, if not for the curse of adding to the prophecies of Revelation given to John...we should have been completely over our tenancy to kill the prophets. Yet that curse has always been in place. The point is, the Holy Spirit has been active the whole time, and we have been told that He will in fact increase during our time. So, where is the balance struck...at no prophecy, or all prophecy? Well, we have the answer already. And so there is just the matter of the written curse given by John in Revelation. Which I would say is not to stop all, but to warn all. And I concur.

Given that signs and wonders in the last times are associated with the man of sin, empowered by Satan, I question whether this will be the true testimony.

But in that we are both saying that signs and wonders are not right now accompanying those voices which share these new revelations, then I have to ask . . . when you say one thing, and another says something different, how may I know whose voice is true?

Let's say for argument's sake that God has appointed some to bring new revelation. I believe this will in fact happen with two men in Jerusalem called two witnesses.

When the various voices say different things, as the Scriptures say, let the prophet speak, and let the others judge. Judge based on what? How do we know?

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Given that signs and wonders in the last times are associated with the man of sin, empowered by Satan, I question whether this will be the true testimony.

Indeed signs do surround Satan, and rightly so, for his time is short. But that does not mean that the signs of the coming of the Son of Man are of the devil. There is both.

But in that we are both saying that signs and wonders are not right now accompanying those voices which share these new revelations, then I have to ask . . . when you say one thing, and another says something different, how may I know whose voice is true?

Let's say for argument's sake that God has appointed some to bring new revelation. I believe this will in fact happen with two men in Jerusalem called two witnesses.

When the various voices say different things, as the Scriptures say, let the prophet speak, and let the others judge. Judge based on what? How do we know?

Much love!

I hope you realize that this is the same question used by Atheists against the same multitude of voices. Either way...there is only one way that God has given for us to know the truth: which is by the Spirit. His word does not return void. We then call upon God to supply us with the knowledge and insight to navigate. But the wicked share the same sea, and rule the night. Nonetheless, if a righteous man acts righteously and a wicked man wickedly, the truth will prevail. This too was written of and advised of by John.

 

[marks]

Indeed signs do surround Satan, and rightly so, for his time is short. But that does not mean that the signs of the coming of the Son of Man are of the devil. There is both.

OK, I won't contest this. Again the question is there, how do we know with certainty?

I hope you realize that this is the same question used by Atheists against the same multitude of voices.

This is immaterial to me. Let anyone ask any question they want, I'm just asking you what you think about this.

There are a multitude of voices. We're to test the spirits, to see which are from God.

Either way...there is only one way that God has given for us to know the truth: which is by the Spirit. His word does not return void. We then call upon God to supply us with the knowledge and insight to navigate. But the wicked share the same sea, and rule the night. Nonetheless, if a righteous man acts righteously and a wicked man wickedly, the truth will prevail. This too was written of and advised of by John.

So then, basically speaking, you'll just know within yourself as the Holy Spirit tells us who is and who is not true? Is that correct?

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

So then, basically speaking, you'll just know within yourself as the Holy Spirit tells us who is and who is not true? Is that correct?

Well...not exactly. You may not know. God decides.

These are the circumstances: Just as John's last words in Revelation included " He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”, and why God is "I am", we too are what we are, doing what we will do, until the end. Faced with what "is", through the course of our life each of us takes our stand by how we react to what we are confronted with...and we will be what we will be. If it is in us to act in faith toward God, He will provide the spiritual means. If it is within us to change from what we might see as right to see something else, we will rightfully go according to the will we have in us. In this way, life in the world is the manifestation of us exercising our free will.

Bottom line, we are not given the opportunity to evaluate, but to "be." It is God who evaluates. Even the test of spirits, is only so good. If we do not have the spirit of discernment given by God, the test is worthless.

 

[marks]

Well...not exactly. You may not know. God decides.

These are the circumstances: Just as John's last words in Revelation included " He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”, and why God is "I am", we too are what we are, doing what we will do, until the end. Faced with what "is", through the course of our life each of us takes our stand by how we react to what we are confronted with...and we will be what we will be. If it is in us to act in faith toward God, He will provide the spiritual means. If it is within us to change from what we might see as right to see something else, we will rightfully go according to the will we have in us. In this way, life in the world is the manifestation of us exercising our free will.

Bottom line, we are given the opportunity to evaluate, but to "be." It is God who evaluates. Even the test of spirits, is only so good. If we do not have the spirit of discernment given by God, the test is worthless.

It still sounds like you're describing some process by which we will either just know, or just not know. And we either will or won't, it's not really up to us.

Thank you for your expanations. Feel free to add anthing you think I may be missing.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

It still sounds like you're describing some process by which we will either just know, or just not know. And we either will or won't, it's not really up to us.

Thank you for your expanations. Feel free to add anthing you think I may be missing.

Much love!

Yes, ideally if we have the Holy Spirit in us...the process is the Spirit knows the Spirit when He hears or sees it. But that assumes a lot, that we actually have the Holy Spirit and have not just believed that we have Him because men said that we should. It also assumes that God does not withhold from some while revealing to others...which does not set right, but is exactly what God does, and for good reason. He who restrains does so until the times are fulfilled.

But life in the world among the fallen is far from ideal, as should be expected for those coming back from the dead.

 

[marks]

Yes, ideally if we have the Holy Spirit in us...the process is the Spirit knows the Spirit when He hears or sees it. But that assumes a lot, that we actually have the Holy Spirit and have not just believed that we have Him because men said that we should. It also assumes that God does not withhold from some while revealing to others...which does not set right, but is exactly what God does, and for good reason. He who restrains does so until the times are fulfilled.

But life in the world among the fallen is far from ideal, as should be expected for those coming back from the dead.

OK. Well it sounds like from what you are saying that there's really no way of settling the matter in any objective way if and when you say one thing, and someone else says another, all we can really do is sit back and say either you know or you don't.

So then if you give a doctrine, say, that's not specifically taught in the Bible, but you tell me this is now unsealed, and you are bringing it to me, but I don't think it's right, that there is nothing outside of you or I to settle the matter. Only you to say, You must not have the Spirit, and me to say, I believe I do.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Oh, and @ScottA

I believe in our early discussions I was likely harsh, for which I apologize, and ask your forgiveness.

I should have started out more like this. Yes, I'm still a work in process!

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

OK. Well it sounds like from what you are saying that there's really no way of settling the matter in any objective way if and when you say one thing, and someone else says another, all we can really do is sit back and say either you know or you don't.

So then if you give a doctrine, say, that's not specifically taught in the Bible, but you tell me this is now unsealed, and you are bringing it to me, but I don't think it's right, that there is nothing outside of you or I to settle the matter. Only you to say, You must not have the Spirit, and me to say, I believe I do.

Much love!

Here is what I recommend:

If we were talking about the historic accounts it might actually go just as you have described above...but I don't like the sounds of what you have described either. According to the scriptures, if the Holy Spirit is truly speaking (and me or someone else perhaps being used), I/we couldn't get a word in edgewise if I/we tried. However, considering "by the mouth of two or three witnesses", should afford more than one point of scriptural reference. I am willing to give it a go if you are.

Thanks for your civility in our discussion. Just saw your note. Much appreciated.

 

[marks]

According to the scriptures, if the Holy Spirit is truly speaking (and me or someone else perhaps being used), I/we couldn't get a word in edgewise if I/we tried.

I was just thinking about this a couple of nights ago, reading how the king, Jeconiah maybe? burned Jeremiah's scroll that Baruch had written, so God told him to get another scroll and write it all down again. And I just assumed that it would be a letter perfect reproduction.

Ezekiel was physically unable to speak until God wanted him to. But Nathan spoke to David on his own, and later had to go back and retract.

However, considering "by the mouth of two or three witnesses", should afford more than one point of scriptural reference. I am willing to give it a go if you are.

This is how I see the NT intructions, that the prophet speaks, and the hearers judge. And either we have the inner witness of the Holy Spirit, but even if not, we have the witness of Scripture. And even if we feel that we concur, our own feelings may be misguided. This is why for me I always return to the Bible.

And this is just one more reason why I think we need to know the Scripture so well! At the end of the day, I think that the prophet tells us what the Word declares but that we don't see.

I think the time is coming there will be 2 prophets more along the lines of the OT prophets, to guide Israel through a very difficult time.

I know that many believe there will be a dramatic increase in spiritual gift activity, signs and wonders, as I've mentioned before, this is a concern to me. The Bible is my anchor.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Thanks for your civility in our discussion. Just saw your note. Much appreciated.

Ditto!

 

[tzcho2]

That is correct...because I claim nothing to be my own. But that is not to say that any one person in the service of God is not a part, because He has made us part...which is truly amazing. We also should realize that we live in a critical time, perhaps the tipping point...which I know better than to suggest as only "perhaps", but do suggest so that it be considered reasonable. All things written of will indeed be fulfilled and made manifest with signs.

But "bringing revelation to add to the understanding of Scripture" is easily misunderstood. If we take something as basic as marriage or as complex as the coming of Christ, and explore the way that the mystery of what was written and practiced was a foreshadowing by previous scripture, a reasonable person should understand that the revelation of their full meaning was not take well in spite of it being the truth. In fact, if not for the curse of adding to the prophecies of Revelation given to John...we should have been completely over our tenancy to kill the prophets. Yet that curse has always been in place. The point is, the Holy Spirit has been active the whole time, and we have been told that He will in fact increase during our time. So, where is the balance struck...at no prophecy, or all prophecy? Well, we have the answer already. And so there is just the matter of the written curse given by John in Revelation. Which I would say is not to stop all, but to warn all. And I concur.

False prophets think they bring something NEW because THEY have a FRESH Revelation given THEM from GOD-----NOT

 

[marks]

False prophets think they bring something NEW because THEY have a FRESH Revelation given THEM from GOD-----NOT

Hi tzcho2,

Just wondering, do you think there are current those who prophesy rightly?

Much love!

 

[marks]

False prophets think they bring something NEW because THEY have a FRESH Revelation given THEM from GOD-----NOT

What do you think of my idea that speaking prophetically of Scritpure is to show things unseen previously?

Much love!

 

[tzcho2]

What is the point in the divinely inspired authoritative word of God ? Was it left open? or is it closed? I believe it is closed. God speaks to His people but HE is not amending HIS WORD. The Bible itself confirms that the Canon is closed and this means that there are not New revelations of Truth outside of what is already Divinely recorded in the Bible is Complete. There are not new Apostles or no new Prophets that are giving New Revelations from GOD , or Giving NEW Explanations From GOD on scripture.
One of the problems is when anyone defends that the BIBLE is Sufficient and the closed canon against these false prophets they become victims of Slander & the attempts to mischaracterize us as "pharisees" or slandered as those that killed the True prophets of God, which has no parallels to pointing out false teachers, when the fact is Jesus warned of these false teachers.

The Lord Jesus and His disciples warned about false prophets, and false teachers. We've already heard the twisting of the meaning of scriptures being done in the past threads, so giving them another listen? itching ears..... is there a cure? There are no new discoveries to be made of lost scriptures. Read what "Closed Canon" means below and what the implications are.

The closed canon—what are the implications?

"Question: "The closed canon—what are the implications?"

"Answer: The canon of Scripture refers to all the books in the Christian Bible and Hebrew Scriptures that together constitute the complete and divinely inspired Word of God. Only the books of the canon are considered authoritative in matters of faith and practice. The idea of a closed canon is that the Bible is complete; no more books are being added to it. God is not appending His Word.

The canon of Scripture was determined by God, not men. Making this distinction is important. The accepted books were not considered inspired because humans determined that they should be part of the canon; they were included in the canon because God inspired them at the time they were written. God’s people were only responsible for discovering or recognizing the canon. The process of discovery started with Jewish scholars and rabbis and was finalized by the early Christian church by the end of the fourth century.

The development of a complete or closed canon of Scripture formed as the early church tested and discerned what was truly the divinely inspired Word of God. Humanly speaking, the process unfolded imperfectly, but ultimately God’s sovereign purpose prevailed.

Today Protestants include 66 books of the Old and New Testament in the canon. Roman Catholics and some Eastern Orthodox churches accept additional writings known as the Apocrypha, a set of books not considered authoritative or divinely inspired in Judaism and Protestant Christianity.

The most significant implication of a closed canon is that additional books cannot be added to the Bible and none of the books that are currently included can be removed. God has spoken.

A closed canon implies that other religious books that devotees purport to be inspired by God should be rejected as spurious. The Book of Mormon, the Quran, the Vedas, The Great Controversy, and Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures—all of these are works of men and women and not the product of God’s Holy Spirit.

A closed canon also implies that there are no apostles or prophets today who are receiving new messages from God. The church is gifted with teachers and preachers of the Word today, but anyone who claims a new revelation from God, proffers his or her message as divinely inspired, or assumes authority on par with the Bible is leading people astray. Sadly, many in the church give heed to dreams and visions shared from the pulpit and to those who falsely claim that “God spoke to me.”

But what if a truly prophetic book were discovered today? What if a lost letter written by the apostle Paul were found? Even if another epistle were found, and it could be verified as Pauline, we would not add it to the canon of Scripture. We assume that Paul wrote many letters to various groups over the course of his ministry, but most of them were not preserved, showing it was not God’s will for them to be included in the canon (see 2 Corinthians 7:8 for a possible reference to a non-canonical letter).

Jude, one of the last books to be included in the canon before it was closed, indicates that the Scriptures have been delivered in their entirety, once for all time: “Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people” (Jude 1:3). The words the faith in this passage refer to the sum of what Christians believe, all of the apostles’ teachings, or the whole body of Christian beliefs. In other words, everything we believe in the Christian faith has already been delivered or revealed to the saints through the apostles and prophets. Through the Scriptures, God has given us a final and complete body of knowledge for living the Christian faith.

An open canon would allow books or passages of Scripture to be added to the Bible through continued or ongoing revelation. By adding books to the canon, we would essentially be saying that the current Bible is incomplete, or lacking in some way.

Proverbs 30:5–6 cautions us not to add to God’s words: “Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.”

Deuteronomy 4:2 warns us not to add or take away from God’s commands: “Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you” (see also Deuteronomy 12:32).

At the close of the book of Revelation, the last book of the Bible, we read a similar warning: “I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book” (Revelation 22:18–19)

Acknowledging a closed canon means accepting the idea that God has already revealed everything His children need to know. It also means that everything He has revealed in the Scriptures is divinely inspired. Nothing should be added, and nothing ought to be taken away or ignored.

A closed canon doesn’t mean God has ceased to reveal Himself to people today but that there will be no new revelation of truth outside of what He has already revealed in the Bible to the church. God has placed in the closed canon of Scripture everything we need to know about Himself, and about who we are, how we ought to live, and what will happen in the future (see 2 Peter 1:3)." Bible Questions Answered

Recommended Resource: The Canon of Script ure by F.F. Bruce

 

[tzcho2]

Hi tzcho2,

Just wondering, do you think there are current those who prophesy rightly?

Much love!

"rightly" ? don't know what you are referring.

 

[marks]

"rightly" ? don't know what you are referring.

Real prophets. Sorry!