Missing Scripture

[marks]

You are purposely not answering me.

OK, coming back to this, the question you are asking me is, who do I call a prophet?

I don't know that I really call anyone in particular a prophet. My desire is to speak prophetically, even as the oracle of God, but I tremble to even write this desire, much less do more than hope it be true!

I've said in the past that I've thought Keith Green's song "When I Hear the Praises Start" to be prophetic. That does not mean I call Keith Green a prophet. And I haven't really thought about this for a long time. But just to be fair to your question, I've thought that in the past.

Kansas City School of Prophets? Never met them in person . . . but . . . I don't think so. On the modern manifestations of prophecy so widely known in media and social media and all that, we're on the same page.

Much love!

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello

My experience is that when I am prompted by God to respond in certain ways, that the person I am responding to is so sure of their own understanding of their situation that they cannot hear the message that is being delivered to them by the words that I have written and the person to whom the words have been written or spoken to becomes angry with you because your words are not within the boundaries of their expectations. The truth of the matter is that their expectation is to be able to direct the activities of God to satisfy their needs and that they want people to direct their prayers for them accordingly. The question then becomes, "Are these people acting prophetically to solve their perceived problems or not?"

I also had a daughter who was picked out during a church service and a visiting preacher spoke over her words that she was happy to received. The "prophet" in this case gave a word that fitted her every day life and activities, that she though he would not have known as he was an out of towner, and she was excited because of the words he had spoken over her. When I advised her to be cautious with the "prophets" words she did not appreciate my advice of being cautious but suggested that I was being negative about what had happened.

Let me give an example to the first example above: -

A person askes for people to pray for him to get a new job, because he has just lost another job?

How should we pray for the needs of that person?

First off we should be seeking the heart of God as to how we should be praying within the requested circumstances. Does the person have a flawed personality characteristic that needs correction that causes him to be losing his job every few months? Or secondly, is the Lord wanting the person to move on to a new job in a new firm because he has finished his evangelistic work in the existing firm and it is time to move to a new firm to repeat the process? Or thirdly, does the economic circumstance mean that all firms that are being effected by the downturn have to downsize by sacking staff to remain viable, so that they can ride out the economic circumstances that are prevailing at that time, and the lose of this person's job is prevalent within the community that he is living in?

From the information that we are given from the person requesting for us to pray for a new job for them will our prayers be tailor made for the person if we have not inquired of the Lord as to how we should prayer.

People who have a prophetic gifting are often sort out to pray for others so that the person who is making the request will receive a favourable outcome. The OT has a number of these situations and the "Prophet" has had to withdraw from the people to seek out a word form the Lord for them.

The work of a prophet is a lonely occupation because if the people's expectation are not meet, then the prophet was then often killed as recorded in the OT. Today, the same is also true, where the prophet is run out of town, so to speak or bullied or put down.

A prophet gives what is from the Lord and then leaves it up to the Lord to work through. Once the word has been given, if the people change because of the delivered message from God, then God may repent of his declaration of the outcome for the people and change His mind and show compassion and grace towards those people. It is only the responsibility of the prophet to deliver God's message and if God then changes His mind then so be it. The prophet was true to the word that God had given him to present to the people.

Many people want to be prophets of God today, but the reason behind their wish/desire is often their undoing and downfall.

Sadly, the Biblical translations we rely on today cannot be relied upon as an expression of what God's outcomes will be and we do need people with understanding to explain the entrenched fallacies of misunderstandings of the past traditions to unravel the future for us today.

The lack of understanding can be seen on this forum where people have diametrically opposing views to others with respect to the available "scriptures/holy book" in use today.

Shalom

 

[ScottA]

I feel that happens with me too. My hope is always that I speak/write as the Lord desires! But if those things I say show what is written, then I'm simply speaking God's Word.

I believe what we are witnessing with all the varied interpretations and nonsense, was foreshadowed at Pentecost and is the result of God pouring out His "spirit upon all flesh", not only upon that flesh performing His will, but "all."

I also see this as the new "coming out of Egypt" and the new "entering the promised land"...those accounts which were written and did occur, as being the foreshadowing in the flesh and in the scriptures, of what is now to be in spirit, for God is spirit. As such, there is a danger now also of going back (as if to Egypt) to what was written on tablets. Just as what was once salvation for Joseph and Israel in going into Egypt, and God then lead them out...it is now likewise also against the greater plan of God in bringing us out of spiritual Egypt (Revelation 11:8) to remain in the land. In this way the scriptures are our spiritual Egypt. Where they were once for our salvation, God's greater plan is to lead us out into the promise of scriptures written in our hearts. For which Christ prepared the way and sent the Holy Spirit, and Paul preached to "press on" "leaving behind the elementary principles of Christ." Which is not against the scriptures, but for them, because of them, and according to them.

 

[ScottA]

Hello

My experience is that when I am prompted by God to respond in certain ways, that the person I am responding to is so sure of their own understanding of their situation that they cannot hear the message that is being delivered to them by the words that I have written and the person to whom the words have been written or spoken to becomes angry with you because your words are not within the boundaries of their expectations. The truth of the matter is that their expectation is to be able to direct the activities of God to satisfy their needs and that they want people to direct their prayers for them accordingly. The question then becomes, "Are these people acting prophetically to solve their perceived problems or not?"

In this way the spirit of God poured out upon all has amplified both the good and the evil in a time of great(er) tribulation. Each person is acting out their own "I am", for or against the will of God, unto judgement.

 

[tzcho2]

t is only the responsibility of the prophet to deliver God's message and if God then changes His mind then so be it. The prophet was true to the word that God had given him to present to the people.

So you think God has changed His mind since the scriptures were written?

 

[tzcho2]

OK, coming back to this, the question you are asking me is, who do I call a prophet?
I don't know that I really call anyone in particular a prophet. My desire is to speak prophetically, even as the oracle of God, but I tremble to even write this desire, much less do more than hope it be true!
I've said in the past that I've thought Keith Green's song "When I Hear the Praises Start" to be prophetic. That does not mean I call Keith Green a prophet. And I haven't really thought about this for a long time. But just to be fair to your question, I've thought that in the past.
Kansas City School of Prophets? Never met them in person . . . but . . . I don't think so. On the modern manifestations of prophecy so widely known in media and social media and all that, we're on the same page.

Much love!

Thanks marks, my issue with it is I have not seen that what people in the charismatic & pentecostal church call prophets or prophecy as being anything that resembles the examples we have from the Bible of God's prophets or prophecies.
I also note how few were mentioned in the bible and how many people want to call themselves prophets now.

 

[marks]

In this way the spirit of God poured out upon all has amplified both the good and the evil in a time of great(er) tribulation. Each person is acting out their own "I am", for or against the will of God, unto judgement.

Perhaps I'm starting to understand what you may be saying, which is a frightening prospect in and of itself!



Right off the top I feel like I'd use different vocabulary.

But what you say does align with various passages, let him who is evil be evil still, him who is holy be holy still; send a strong delusion . . . that they will be condemned; the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against . . . given them over to . . .; like that.

I'm going to give this some thought.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I believe what we are witnessing with all the varied interpretations and nonsense, was foreshadowed at Pentecost and is the result of God pouring out His "spirit upon all flesh", not only upon that flesh performing His will, but "all."

I also see this as the new "coming out of Egypt" and the new "entering the promised land"...those accounts which were written and did occur, as being the foreshadowing in the flesh and in the scriptures, of what is now to be in spirit, for God is spirit. As such, there is a danger now also of going back (as if to Egypt) to what was written on tablets. Just as what was once salvation for Joseph and Israel in going into Egypt, and God then lead them out...it is now likewise also against the greater plan of God in bringing us out of spiritual Egypt (Revelation 11:8) to remain in the land. In this way the scriptures are our spiritual Egypt. Where they were once for our salvation, God's greater plan is to lead us out into the promise of scriptures written in our hearts. For which Christ prepared the way and sent the Holy Spirit, and Paul preached to "press on" "leaving behind the elementary principles of Christ." Which is not against the scriptures, but for them, because of them, and according to them.

I see the Scripture being written inside as in perfect agreement with the Scripture written in the Book. But I do believe that we don't understand everything in it, and I am always looking to the Holy Spirit for greater understanding, and to simply believe the Words I read.

I believe the Bible is still for our salvation, but we need to internalize it more. Thy Word have I hid in my heart . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

Thanks marks, my issue with it is I have not seen that what people in the charismatic & pentecostal church call prophets or prophecy as being anything that resembles the examples we have from the Bible of God's prophets or prophecies.
I also note how few were mentioned in the bible and how many people want to call themselves prophets now.

I think there is much counterfeit, but I also think there is the true.

One of the first red flags to me is what someone stands up and says, hey everybody, look, I'm a prophet!

I understand a prophet to be one who speaks God word in a way that is immediately empowered by the work of the Holy Spirit, and speaks God's actual word. I believe this happens in the modern day, but I also think that most people who appear in the public arena in this capacity most likely are not.

Much love!

 

[tzcho2]

The conflict is in you, and in those who see but do not perceive, and hear but do not understand.

Smoke screen, sorry others may bow to this but I won't. I've seen the manipulation of meaning of scriptures, which makes me uncomfortable.

I think there is much counterfeit, but I also think there is the true.

One of the first red flags to me is what someone stands up and says, hey everybody, look, I'm a prophet!

I understand a prophet to be one who speaks God word in a way that is immediately empowered by the work of the Holy Spirit, and speaks God's actual word. I believe this happens in the modern day, but I also think that most people who appear in the public arena in this capacity most likely are not.

Much love!

The Prophet's in the bible were held to a strict and the highest standard. Today anyone who thinks they have some insight think they are a prophet and call it a prophecy. There are also the individuals who will bring in "destructive heresies" , the Bible tells us there are false prophets that are not easy to spot. Pastor Voddie Baucham has a teaching about False Prophets. Worth listening to.

 

[marks]

Today anyone who thinks they have some insight think they are a prophet and call it a prophecy.

That's an overgeneralization.

Apparently you do not believe in any legitimate prophecy in the modern day, and will reject any form of it. Is that right?

Much love!

 

[tzcho2]

That's an overgeneralization.

Apparently you do not believe in any legitimate prophecy in the modern day, and will reject any form of it. Is that right?

Much love!

No it's not an over generalization. You just don't like it, sorry, but this is my observation of almost 2 years in a charimatic and pentecostal church. I observed it close up. We went to several other churches to hear a visiting "prophet". This does not include also the evidence of this I witnessed from the books and videos of these modern prophets.

 

[marks]

No it's not an over generalization. You just don't like it, sorry,

No, tzcho2, I have to disagree, it IS an overgeneralization. You said that anyone who thinks they have an insight thinks they are a prophet, and call it prophecy.

Without meaning to be rude, just to demonstrate,

Do you think you have any insights? I hope you do! If so, do you think that they are prophecy? Do you call yourself a prophet? I would think not. Your own self shows this is an overgeneralization.

If I had a nickle - wait - If I had $1000 for every time someone said I didn't think something because I didn't want to . . . All that comes to is the accusation of Intellectual dishonesty.

Been called that a lot, in a number of ways. By people who don't actually know me.

but this is my observation of almost 2 years in a charimatic and pentecostal church. I observed it close up. We went to several other churches to hear a visiting "prophet". This does not include also the evidence of this I witnessed from the books and videos of these modern prophets.

So then you reject all prophecy in the modern day, I understand.

There are many who preach a false Christ, yet there is a true. Could there not be many false prophets, but still be those who are true?

Much love!

 

[tzcho2]

No, tzcho2, I have to disagree, it IS an overgeneralization. You said that anyone who thinks they have an insight thinks they are a prophet, and call it prophecy.

Without meaning to be rude, just to demonstrate,

Do you think you have any insights? I hope you do! If so, do you think that they are prophecy? Do you call yourself a prophet? I would think not. Your own self shows this is an overgeneralization.

If I had a nickle - wait - If I had $1000 for every time someone said I didn't think something because I didn't want to . . . All that comes to is the accusation of Intellectual dishonesty.

Been called that a lot, in a number of ways. By people who don't actually know me.



So then you reject all prophecy in the modern day, I understand.

There are many who preach a false Christ, yet there is a true. Could there not be many false prophets, but still be those who are true?

Much love!

I am saying in this age of deception anyone who thinks they have an insight wants to call themselves a "prophet". That is not what a prophet is by the scriptures.

 

[marks]

I am saying in this age of deception anyone who thinks they have an insight wants to call themselves a "prophet". That is not what a prophet is by the scriptures.

Then this must be true of you too, I suppose. If you have any insights, you must want to call yourself a prophet. But I don't think that's what you really think.

What would you say this passage teaches us?

1 Corinthians 14 (YLT)
29 And prophets -- let two or three speak, and let the others discern,
30 and if to another sitting [anything] may be revealed, let the first be silent;
31 for ye are able, one by one, all to prophesy, that all may learn, and all may be exhorted,
32 and the spiritual gift of prophets to prophets are subject,
33 for God is not [a God] of tumult, but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the saints.

Who are these who speak? Who are they that discern? What is this prophecy?

Much love!

 

[tzcho2]

Then this must be true of you too, I suppose. If you have any insights, you must want to call yourself a prophet. But I don't think that's what you really think.

What would you say this passage teaches us?

1 Corinthians 14 (YLT)
29 And prophets -- let two or three speak, and let the others discern,
30 and if to another sitting [anything] may be revealed, let the first be silent;
31 for ye are able, one by one, all to prophesy, that all may learn, and all may be exhorted,
32 and the spiritual gift of prophets to prophets are subject,
33 for God is not [a God] of tumult, but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the saints.

Who are these who speak? Who are they that discern? What is this prophecy?

Much love!

Why is my statement so difficult for you to comprehend & why do you keep misrepresenting it? It should be simple to understand.
Why would you say this "must be true of you" . I am not a prophet, neither do I give prophecies. Neither do I have any desire to be a prophet.
For some the Bible is not enough and they don't pray and wait for God to speak to them with His Word, though the scripture says God's word is Alive and sharper then a two-edged sword.... But instead some want a human to give them a message from God.

 

[marks]

Why is my statement so difficult for you to comprehend & why do you keep misrepresenting it? It should be simple to understand.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to belabor the point.

You had said that anyone who has an insight wants to call themself a prophet. Apparently you didn't actually mean "everyone", then, did you?

No worries!
Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

What would you say this passage teaches us?

1 Corinthians 14 (YLT)
29 And prophets -- let two or three speak, and let the others discern,
30 and if to another sitting [anything] may be revealed, let the first be silent;
31 for ye are able, one by one, all to prophesy, that all may learn, and all may be exhorted,
32 and the spiritual gift of prophets to prophets are subject,
33 for God is not [a God] of tumult, but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the saints.

Who are these who speak? Who are they that discern? What is this prophecy?

This passage was written at the time when the New Testament was in the process of being written. The Bible was not complete therefore there were apostles, prophets, tongues-speakers, interpreters, etc. within the apostolic churches.

Now that we have a complete Bible, it is the evangelists, pastors, and teachers who are active within the churches, and there are NO MORE PROPHETS. Therefore that passage does not apply.

How do we know this? The last book in the Bible is a book of prophecy, and it is also the last book of genuine Bible prophecy. The apostle-prophet John was the final prophet, while the Lord Jesus Christ was the ultimate Prophet (according to Moses).

 

[ScottA]

I see the Scripture being written inside as in perfect agreement with the Scripture written in the Book. But I do believe that we don't understand everything in it, and I am always looking to the Holy Spirit for greater understanding, and to simply believe the Words I read.

I believe the Bible is still for our salvation, but we need to internalize it more. Thy Word have I hid in my heart . . .

Much love!

I indicated that the scriptures were our "salvation" for a time, just as Egypt was Israel's. But what I should have said was that is our refuge for a time (just as Egypt was for Israel). In other words, yes, the scriptures are golden--yeah foundational, to all who place their hope in Messiah. But it is rather in the living Word (Christ) that our salvation actually lies, rather than in those words inspired by Him. And we like Israel run the risk, and indeed are already guilty, of treating the scriptures as Israel treated the Law.

So if we can learn from their mistakes, from the precedence now written in those very scriptures...we will look not to the letter, but to the Spirit, and in this way "follow" Christ in entering into the spiritual realm of God.

 

[ScottA]

Smoke screen, sorry others may bow to this but I won't. I've seen the manipulation of meaning of scriptures, which makes me uncomfortable.

The Prophet's in the bible were held to a strict and the highest standard. Today anyone who thinks they have some insight think they are a prophet and call it a prophecy. There are also the individuals who will bring in "destructive heresies" , the Bible tells us there are false prophets that are not easy to spot. Pastor Voddie Baucham has a teaching about False Prophets. Worth listening to.

But where in your resistance and prejudice have you left room for one sent by God? Should such a one eat locus and run away to the sea? Or should they persecute Christians and then claim they had a vision?

The reality of many false prophets is no defense and a sorry excuse. Pride.

The point is...you have closed the door that God has invited us to open.