Missing Scripture

[tzcho2]

But where in your resistance and prejudice have you left room for one sent by God? Should such a one eat locus and run away to the sea? Or should they persecute Christians and then claim they had a vision?

The reality of many false prophets is no defense and a sorry excuse. Pride.

The point is...you have closed the door that God has invited us to open.

The pride is in the ones that want to be elevated as having the same authority as the Bible and rebuff criticism when pointed out that the scripture shows they are contradicting what the Word of God states.
How many times have we heard when challenged --"Its the Holy Spirit speaking" . So they just can have free reign and want no checks or balances? dangerous.
I believe the office of prophet and apostle has ceased as Paul said .

 

[Jay Ross]

My point has nothing to do with not wanting to hear the message of the so called prophet. It this has to do with someone misrepresenting the Holy Spirit by contradicting what the scriptures say. I witnessed within the charismatic denomination the title of prophet has been highly coveted, the term commandeered and it's purpose distorted from what was biblical.

Still without you posting what you believe is the role of a prophet and using the scriptures to back up your opinion all that you are posting is just hearsay with no substance and possibly your opinion from your own experiences.

I await your words of wisdom as to what you believe is the role of a prophet and let us see if their are words missing or added.

Shalom

 

[marks]

You say good words, but this goes too far for me: "I understand a prophet to be one who speaks God word in a way that is immediately empowered by the work of the Holy Spirit, and speaks God's actual word. I believe this happens in the modern day,.."

I will not consider anyone's words as 'God's actual word', as you say a 'modern day' prophet can speak.
I think a modern day prophet can proclaim God's truth, but his/her words are not 'God's actual word'.

Peace.

And perhaps I worded that too strongly for what I actually think, as you reflect this back to me.

Yes, on reflection, I'll go with what you said.

Thank you!

Much love!

 

[marks]

The pride is in the ones that want to be elevated as having the same authority as the Bible and rebuff criticism when pointed out that the scripture shows they are contradicting what the Word of God states.

Hi tzcho2, what of those who don't?

Believe me, I've seen pretty bad abuses, those who claim their position as apostle and prophet so that the congregants can be made to wash their car. This is seriously no exaggeration.

But what about those who don't go about that way?

You can deliver any messages to any individuals which you are led to deliver to. Christians do it all the time. Preachers do it all the time. But do not attempt to call yourself a prophet or think of yourself as one.

Hi Enoch, those messages, are you saying that they actually could be from God? Wouldn't that be an exercise of the gift of prophecy?

Much love to you both!

 

[Enoch111]

Hi Enoch, those messages, are you saying that they actually could be from God? Wouldn't that be an exercise of the gift of prophecy?

God speaks to Christians all the time in various ways. But there is a difference between prophets and non-prophets.

 

[tzcho2]

Still without you posting what you believe is the role of a prophet and using the scriptures to back up your opinion all that you are posting is just hearsay with no substance and possibly your opinion from your own experiences.I await your words of wisdom as to what you believe is the role of a prophet and let us see if their are words missing or added.
Shalom

First -I have no words of wisdom. The bible only is the source of Godly wisdom that we have been given. Apostle Paul said prophecy & tongues would cease. 2 Pet 2:1 Peter eludes to the transition that was made from prophets of old to the church's teachers. 2 Pet 2:1 " "1Now there were also false prophets among the people, JUST AS THERE WILL BE FALSE TEACHERS among you They will secretly introduce destructive heresies ......"
God's full revelation has been recorded for us, the canon is closed. Christ's Church has been established. The role of prophet transitioned to Pastor & teachers. It is only in the modern day that a certain denomination Pent/Charis has tried to replicate what was prior to the churches establishment.
I agree with Pastor John Macarthur & other well respected theologians & christian apologists are in agreement on this subject, and "gotquestions.org , carm.org, are unified on this question.
What is the spiritual gift of prophecy?
Question: "What is the spiritual gift of prophecy?"

Answer: The spiritual gift of prophecy is listed among the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12:10 and Romans 12:6. The Greek word translated “prophesying” or “prophecy” in both passages properly means to “speak forth” or declare the divine will, to interpret the purposes of God, or to make known in any way the truth of God which is designed to influence people. Many people misunderstand the gift of prophecy to be the ability to predict the future. While knowing something about the future may sometimes have been an aspect of the gift of prophecy, it was primarily a gift of proclamation (“forth-telling”), not prediction (“fore-telling”).

A pastor/preacher who declares the Bible can be considered a “prophesier” in that he is speaking forth the counsel of God. With the completion of the New Testament canon, prophesying changed from declaring new revelation to declaring the completed revelation God has already given. Jude 3 speaks of “the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (emphasis added). In other words, the faith to which we hold has been settled forever, and it does not need the addition or refinement that comes from extra-biblical revelations.

Also, note the transition from prophet to teacher in 2 Peter 2:1: “There were false prophets among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you” (emphasis added). Peter indicates that the Old Testament age had prophets, whereas the church will have teachers. The spiritual gift of prophecy, in the sense of receiving new revelations from God to be proclaimed to others, ceased with the completion of the Bible. During the time that prophecy was a revelatory gift, it was to be used for the edification, exhortation, and comfort of men (1 Corinthians 14:3). The modern gift of prophecy, which is really more akin to teaching, still declares the truth of God. What has changed is that the truth of God today has already been fully revealed in His Word, while, in the early church, it had not yet been fully revealed.

Christians are to be very wary of those who claim to have a “new” message from God. It is one thing to say, “I had an interesting dream last night.” However, it is quite another matter to say, “God gave me a dream last night, and you must obey it.” No utterance of man should be considered equal to or above the written Word. We must hold to the Word that God has already given and commit ourselves to sola scriptura—Scripture alone.

Recommended Resource: Are Miraculous Gifts for Today - Four Views edited by Wayne Grudem

 

[marks]

The modern gift of prophecy, which is really more akin to teaching, still declares the truth of God. What has changed is that the truth of God today has already been fully revealed in His Word, while, in the early church, it had not yet been fully revealed.

OK, so you do believe in a gift of prophecy meant for today, to be understood as above. Is that right, that you agree with MacArthur on this?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Jude 3 speaks of “the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (emphasis added)

Interesting thing occurs to me . . . If Jude was writing by the Holy Spirit about he faith "which was once delivered", then saying that the faith was "once delivered" can't mean that the Holy Spirit no longer inspires.

Now, I'm not saying anything in this one way of the other, just deconstructing the argument.

Much love!

 

[tzcho2]

OK, so you do believe in a gift of prophecy meant for today, to be understood as above. Is that right, that you agree with MacArthur on this?

Much love!

No that is not what I said and I don't see that is what MacArthur said that "a gift of prophecy meant for today" . It seems that there is so much charismatic indoctrination that has happened it distorts all manner of communication on the subject, lol. There is no office of prophet or apostle, there is no prophecying as the pentecostal movement portrays it, there is not new prophetic revelations coming from God, HE Had the Prophecies written down and compiled in the Bible, the Canon is closed, God gave us His prophetic word and these prophecies will be fulfilled. The Pentecostal/Charismatic movement has corrupted understanding of receiving guidance through the Holy Spirit, in my view. A Pastor/ Bible teacher can pray & receive the help of the Holy Spirit when teaching the scriptures for eg. as can we when reading it. There is much ego-boosting & counterfeit to the Holy Spirit that is doing the prophetic speaking in the charismatic movement. It is the humasn acquiring status / authority, instead of speaking for themselves as a mature Christian with a firm foundation in sound doctrines which has no power in it, that is a humble place, instead in this movement people want to claim the gift of prophecy & say their thoughts or understanding are coming directly from the Holy Spirit.

 

[marks]

No that is not what I said and I don't see that is what MacArthur said that "a gift of prophecy meant for today" .

Hi tzcho2,

I was looking at the post where you quoted him:

The modern gift of prophecy, which is really more akin to teaching, still declares the truth of God. What has changed is that the truth of God today has already been fully revealed in His Word, while, in the early church, it had not yet been fully revealed.

Perhaps I misunderstood what he meant?

Much love!

 

[tzcho2]

Hi tzcho2,

I was looking at the post where you quoted him:



Perhaps I misunderstood what he meant?

Much love!

I believe you are not understanding and think it still means standing up and saying I'm a prophet and I have a message from God to YOU.

 

[ScottA]

The pride is in the ones that want to be elevated as having the same authority as the Bible and rebuff criticism when pointed out that the scripture shows they are contradicting what the Word of God states.
How many times have we heard when challenged --"Its the Holy Spirit speaking" . So they just can have free reign and want no checks or balances? dangerous.
I believe the office of prophet and apostle has ceased as Paul said .

First of all...Paul never said that. So everything you are saying should be discarded. You are breaking the rules you yourself have imposed. What Paul did say, all he said, was that where prophecies may end, love never does. You are so out of context, you should not be taken serious.

Still, you are imposing a limit that God has not. He, on the other hand, has given gifts to men and entered into the spiritual realm of God where true sons and daughters are to "follow." And you have not only closed that door for yourself, "you hinder those who would enter in", for which Christ has critically warned with great woe.

But what have you done to show contradictions from scripture? You have only pit scripture against scripture out of your own prejudice, as if God were against Himself. But no, He is not, but you are against and not for the scriptures.

 

[tzcho2]

Hi tzcho2,

I was looking at the post where you quoted him:



Perhaps I misunderstood what he meant?

Much love!

Pastor's teaching the full counsel of God speak through the Holy Spirit. I have no idea why it's so difficult. I give up trying to explain this one!

 

[tzcho2]

.

Woe to false teachers Scott.
You can keep your threats that your ego likes to give out. You expose your fruit , it's all about the power you think you have.
Men of God that I look up to are humble and speak the word of God, they expound on the bible's teachings through the Holy Spirit. Never have I heard any of them utter threats to others even if what they've taught was not received. But you do it in every post one way or another.

 

[marks]

I believe you are not understanding and think it still means standing up and saying I'm a prophet and I have a message from God to YOU.

What have I said to give that impression? I thought we've been talking about whether there is a modern day gift of prophecy. It sounds like I've been debating with someones baggage, if you'll pardon the expression.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Pastor's teaching the full counsel of God speak through the Holy Spirit. I have no idea why it's so difficult. I give up trying to explain this one!

It looks to me like you don't really see the idea of prophecy among believers today apart from the extremes of charismania. Is there maybe a baby floating in the bathwater?

Much love!

 

[tzcho2]

What have I said to give that impression? I thought we've been talking about whether there is a modern day gift of prophecy. It sounds like I've been debating with someones baggage, if you'll pardon the expression.

Much love!

It sounds to me you keep trying to say the gift of prophecy still exists.

 

[marks]

It sounds to me you keep trying to say the gift of prophecy still exists.

I believe it does, but I think I see it differently than you.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Woe to false teachers Scott.
You can keep your threats that your ego likes to give out. You expose your fruit , it's all about the power you think you have.
Men of God that I look up to are humble and speak the word of God, they expound on the bible's teachings through the Holy Spirit. Never have I heard any of them utter threats to others even if what they've taught was not received. But you do it in every post one way or another.

Here again you speak against the scriptures. If those men do not utter the same threats as the scriptures when faced with unrighteousness...there is a reason. Because if they actually followed the biblical example they too would quote the warnings given in the scriptures.

Talk about fruit. Obviously, you look to men rather than the scriptures, and the scriptures are just an excuse for you to promote the teachings of men.

 

[ScottA]

It sounds to me you keep trying to say the gift of prophecy still exists.

Show in the scriptures where God has put an end to prophecy. Not that He will someday, but that He has on a particular day already. Let's hear it!