Missing Scripture

[ScottA]

This passage was written at the time when the New Testament was in the process of being written. The Bible was not complete therefore there were apostles, prophets, tongues-speakers, interpreters, etc. within the apostolic churches.

Now that we have a complete Bible, it is the evangelists, pastors, and teachers who are active within the churches, and there are NO MORE PROPHETS. Therefore that passage does not apply.

How do we know this? The last book in the Bible is a book of prophecy, and it is also the last book of genuine Bible prophecy. The apostle-prophet John was the final prophet, while the Lord Jesus Christ was the ultimate Prophet (according to Moses).

And what then would you say this passage teaches us -- that "all" is not all, that "sons and daughters" are not actually included, and therefore God is not true to His word?

Joel 2:28
“And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions."

You speak against the very scriptures you stand on, against God and His complete word.

 

[marks]

I indicated that the scriptures were our "salvation" for a time, just as Egypt was Israel's. But what I should have said was that is our refuge for a time (just as Egypt was for Israel). In other words, yes, the scriptures are golden--yeah foundational, to all who place their hope in Messiah. But it is rather in the living Word (Christ) that our salvation actually lies, rather than in those words inspired by Him. And we like Israel run the risk, and indeed are already guilty, of treating the scriptures as Israel treated the Law.

So if we can learn from their mistakes, from the precedence now written in those very scriptures...we will look not to the letter, but to the Spirit, and in this way "follow" Christ in entering into the spiritual realm of God.

Ok, I see what you are saying.

They searched the Scriptures for eternal life, but they would not come to Jesus, even though those very Scriptures testified of Him. And they cherrypicked what to keep and what not to, at the expense of actually serving God's will.

There error, I believe was in failing to remain open to what those Scriptures said, instead, latching onto certain understandings which were not right.

Those Scriptures did indeed testify of Jesus, and if they had understood, they would have recognized Him.

I can't say that because some fail to recognize the truth of Scripture that we should seek for understanding outside of Scripture.

But I do accept your point, that we can do just the same thing, grab onto certain ideas for any number of wrong reasons, and shortchange ourselves in our depth of relationship with God.

I do still think that God's word that He may speak to any of us will perfectly align with His written Word, and that this keeps us on track.

I consider Scripture perfect, and us less so.

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

I'm asking if you consider it possible that there could be a true prophet of God in the current day.

I'm not speaking of anyone in particular, just if you think it is possible.

Much love!

I believe so because God doesn't change.

 

[Enoch111]

And what then would you say this passage teaches us -- that "all" is not all, that "sons and daughters" are not actually included, and therefore God is not true to His word?

Joel 2:28
“And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions."

You speak against the very scriptures you stand on, against God and His complete word.

You simply need to rightly divide (interpret) the Word of Truth. So here is what you should know (comparing Scripture with Scripture):

1. The gift of the Holy Spirit would be available to all sinners who would repent and believe from the day of Pentecost (Acts 2;38). Hence "all flesh". If all the Jews in Jerusalem on that day would have repented, they all would have received the Holy Spirit. But only about 3,000 believed and received that gift.

2. Among those who would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit would distribute spiritual gifts according to His own will. See 1 Corinthians 12-14. Therefore NOT ALL WOULD BE PROPHETS.

3. There would come a time when at least three spiritual gifts would cease (1 Cor 13:8). Among them would be prophecies or prophets.

4. The apostle-prophet John made it crystal clear in Revelation 22:18 that there would be no more genuine prophecies. This book in the Bible is the end of Bible prophecies.

So the question remains: "Why are you unwilling or unable to rightly divide the Word of Truth?" This is all elementary.

 

[ScottA]

You simply need to rightly divide (interpret) the Word of Truth. So here is what you should know (comparing Scripture with Scripture):

1. The gift of the Holy Spirit would be available to all sinners who would repent and believe from the day of Pentecost (Acts 2;38). Hence "all flesh". If all the Jews in Jerusalem on that day would have repented, they all would have received the Holy Spirit. But only about 3,000 believed and received that gift.

2. Among those who would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit would distribute spiritual gifts according to His own will. See 1 Corinthians 12-14. Therefore NOT ALL WOULD BE PROPHETS.

3. There would come a time when at least three spiritual gifts would cease (1 Cor 13:8). Among them would be prophecies or prophets.

4. The apostle-prophet John made it crystal clear in Revelation 22:18 that there would be no more genuine prophecies. This book in the Bible is the end of Bible prophecies.

So the question remains: "Why are you unwilling or unable to rightly divide the Word of Truth?" This is all elementary.

You are accusing me while violating your own supposition.

It is you who is not comparing scripture to scripture, but expecting that your naming another verse which you cannot reconcile with the one I have quoted, cancels out the one I quoted. But, no, you have not reconciled scripture against scripture at all. Fail.

It is you who has decided that an end comes to prophets and prophecies where YOU say, rather than where the scriptures say: Neither 1 Cor 13:8 or John in the book of Revelation state an end to all prophecies where you say. 1 Cor 13:8 simply says that an end will come -- but YOU "add", saying it ended with John. John, on the other hand does not say all prophecies end with his book of Revelation at all, but rather that none should add or take away from what he has written, or be cursed. But YOU "add" to it to include what was not promised to be written but promised to be revealed in Spirit according to the promise of Christ. Fail.

 

[farouk]

I believe so because God doesn't change.

A similar argument could be: "I believe not, because God's Word cannot be added to or changed".

 

[Pearl]

A similar argument could be: "I believe not, because God's Word cannot be added to or changed".

God's word is the living word.

 

[Jay Ross]

So you think God has changed His mind since the scriptures were written?

What I was referring to was Jonah's complaint and unwillingness to be God's prophet to Nineveh in that he believed that God would change His mind and his prophetic words from God given to Nineveh would not be fulfilled. If you have ever acted at the direction of God, you have to allow God to be God and not to become God yourself. If it is recorded in the Scriptures that God repented of the evil He intended to do, then why cannot that also be true today.

Prophecy giving is a two way street. The outcome of the prophecy, is really between God and the recipient that you have given God's prophetic word, through you, to. The outcome of what God does next is not the prophet's to determine, it is only God's decision as to what will happen next. The prophet has to get out of the way and allow God to be God.

I have had to learn to allow God to be God and not complain about the observable outcome when it does not fit the words that I have been asked to deliver.

In the OT a prophet went to a king of Judah and informed him that he only had days to live because of his sin, but when the king repented of his sin towards God, God turned the prophet around and sent the prophet back to the king to inform the king that God had heard his cry and had seen his repentant heart and that God had granted the king an extension of an additional 14 years in his life.

A prophet has to be prepared to look foolish when giving God's words to the recipients so that God is able to show grace to the person whom the prophet has been directed to see.

I am often called upon by God to give encouraging words to a recipient to move forward with God on his journey with God. Sadly, that prophetic word of encouragement from God, that I have given can be rejected by the recipient and I as the deliverer of that word of encouragement, I often receive hostility and rejection from that person as the word does not reflect that person's desired outcome. That person considered himself to be righteous and a fellow worker who was crying out for help from God was the perceived cause of his dissatisfaction in the place where he worked and to resolve his problem he asked others to pray in that vein. In another example the person received my words of encouragement and that person's issues where meet and God was able to work within those circumstances for His Glory to be seen within those circumstances.

Should I stop delivering what God has asked me to speak into another person's life because God's words through me have not been favourable received.

No, God has not changed His mind. He wants all who will respond to Him to be redeemed and receive His salvation. How God works that out is His business. What God calls me to do is to be faithful to His work that He has given me to do. If it is to speak as a prophet, then to speak as a prophet and unless I am asked to be a prophet for a specific purpose, then I must remain silent as a prophet.

Shalom

 

[Enoch111]

John, on the other hand does not say all prophecies end with his book of Revelation at all, but rather that none should add or take away from what he has written, or be cursed.

Revelation was the last book and John was the last prophet. So anyone coming along now and claiming to be a prophet would be adding to what John already stated as the end of all prophecies. He would be claiming to speak by divine revelation, bringing new prophecies, thus adding to Revelation. AND THAT MY FRIEND IS STRICTLY FORBIDDEN.

 

[Enoch111]

Should I stop delivering what God has asked me to speak into another person's life because God's words through me have not been favourable received.

You can deliver any messages to any individuals which you are led to deliver to. Christians do it all the time. Preachers do it all the time. But do not attempt to call yourself a prophet or think of yourself as one.

 

[Jay Ross]

You can deliver any messages to any individuals which you are led to deliver to. Christians do it all the time. Preachers do it all the time. But do not attempt to call yourself a prophet or think of yourself as one.

Really Enock111, you understand God words enough to be able to act as a prophet. Your statement in essences is that of a prophet based on your own understanding of what is contained in scripture and yet you would claim that you do not act as a prophet, but your words tell a different story.

Shalom

 

[tzcho2]

Really Enock111, you understand God words enough to be able to act as a prophet. Your statement in essences is that of a prophet based on your own understanding of what is contained in scripture and yet you would claim that you do not act as a prophet, but your words tell a different story.

Shalom

You guys seem to have a skewed view of what is a prophet that is not according to the scriptures.

 

[tzcho2]

You can deliver any messages to any individuals which you are led to deliver to. Christians do it all the time. Preachers do it all the time. But do not attempt to call yourself a prophet or think of yourself as one.

Exactly. But some of these like the status of being called a "prophet" , which what they are doing is not acting as a prophet at all.

 

[tzcho2]

What I was referring to was Jonah's complaint and unwillingness to be God's prophet to Nineveh in that he believed that God would change His mind and his prophetic words from God given to Nineveh would not be fulfilled. If you have ever acted at the direction of God, you have to allow God to be God and not to become God yourself. If it is recorded in the Scriptures that God repented of the evil He intended to do, then why cannot that also be true today.

Prophecy giving is a two way street. The outcome of the prophecy, is really between God and the recipient that you have given God's prophetic word, through you, to. The outcome of what God does next is not the prophet's to determine, it is only God's decision as to what will happen next. The prophet has to get out of the way and allow God to be God.

I have had to learn to allow God to be God and not complain about the observable outcome when it does not fit the words that I have been asked to deliver.

In the OT a prophet went to a king of Judah and informed him that he only had days to live because of his sin, but when the king repented of his sin towards God, God turned the prophet around and sent the prophet back to the king to inform the king that God had heard his cry and had seen his repentant heart and that God had granted the king an extension of an additional 14 years in his life.

A prophet has to be prepared to look foolish when giving God's words to the recipients so that God is able to show grace to the person whom the prophet has been directed to see.

I am often called upon by God to give encouraging words to a recipient to move forward with God on his journey with God. Sadly, that prophetic word of encouragement from God, that I have given can be rejected by the recipient and I as the deliverer of that word of encouragement, I often receive hostility and rejection from that person as the word does not reflect that person's desired outcome. That person considered himself to be righteous and a fellow worker who was crying out for help from God was the perceived cause of his dissatisfaction in the place where he worked and to resolve his problem he asked others to pray in that vein. In another example the person received my words of encouragement and that person's issues where meet and God was able to work within those circumstances for His Glory to be seen within those circumstances.

Should I stop delivering what God has asked me to speak into another person's life because God's words through me have not been favourable received.

No, God has not changed His mind. He wants all who will respond to Him to be redeemed and receive His salvation. How God works that out is His business. What God calls me to do is to be faithful to His work that He has given me to do. If it is to speak as a prophet, then to speak as a prophet and unless I am asked to be a prophet for a specific purpose, then I must remain silent as a prophet.

Shalom

I'm with Enoch, that is not being a prophet. Like he said Christians give each other messages all the time, they just don't call themselves a prophet or the insight a prophecy.

 

[Jay Ross]

You guys seem to have a skewed view of what is a prophet that is not according to the scriptures.

I'm with Enoch, that is not being a prophet. Like he said Christians give each other messages all the time, they just don't call themselves a prophet or the insight a prophecy.

If Jonah is not a prophet from the OT then your words of wisdom as to what a prophet does is needed to enlighten the like of someone who is, according to you, ignorant.

Shalom

 

[tzcho2]

If Jonah is not a prophet from the OT then your words of wisdom as to what a prophet does is needed to enlighten the like of someone who is, according to you, ignorant.

Shalom

I'm not talking about Jonah and never was referring to Jonah. I was referring to you believing you were supposed to give a message to someone- that is not being a prophet.

 

[Jay Ross]

I'm not talking about Jonah and never was referring to Jonah. I was referring to you believing you were supposed to give a message to someone- that is not being a prophet.

Then you have not understood what I have written. But my question still needs to be answered by you as to what you believe a prophet is as any continuation of this interchange between us hinges on you presenting your understanding of what is a prophet. Then this conversation can move forward.

Shalom

 

[ScottA]

Revelation was the last book and John was the last prophet. So anyone coming along now and claiming to be a prophet would be adding to what John already stated as the end of all prophecies. He would be claiming to speak by divine revelation, bringing new prophecies, thus adding to Revelation. AND THAT MY FRIEND IS STRICTLY FORBIDDEN.

Again...it is YOU who are adding to what he wrote, saying what he did not, but adding your own words. He never said what you are now saying he said. And yes, the curse is on you, by your own actions.

 

[tabletalk]

I think there is much counterfeit, but I also think there is the true.

One of the first red flags to me is what someone stands up and says, hey everybody, look, I'm a prophet!

I understand a prophet to be one who speaks God word in a way that is immediately empowered by the work of the Holy Spirit, and speaks God's actual word. I believe this happens in the modern day, but I also think that most people who appear in the public arena in this capacity most likely are not.

Much love!

You say good words, but this goes too far for me: "I understand a prophet to be one who speaks God word in a way that is immediately empowered by the work of the Holy Spirit, and speaks God's actual word. I believe this happens in the modern day,.."

I will not consider anyone's words as 'God's actual word', as you say a 'modern day' prophet can speak.
I think a modern day prophet can proclaim God's truth, but his/her words are not 'God's actual word'.

Peace.

 

[tzcho2]

Then you have not understood what I have written. But my question still needs to be answered by you as to what you believe a prophet is as any continuation of this interchange between us hinges on you presenting your understanding of what is a prophet. Then this conversation can move forward.

My point has nothing to do with not wanting to hear the message of the so called prophet. It this has to do with someone misrepresenting the Holy Spirit by contradicting what the scriptures say. I witnessed within the charismatic denomination the title of prophet has been highly coveted, the term commandeered and it's purpose distorted from what was biblical.