More about : SALVATION

[Behold]

Becoming a "Christian" is caused by God, and completed by God, on behalf of a SINNER.

Salvation is not Temporary.......Its "Eternal LIFE".... and was completed by Jesus on The Cross, and He said so from The Cross..=.>"IT (Salvation) Is FINISHED..(Accomplished)""

So, a SINNER........gives God their Faith in Christ......and God gives to them, what Christ has FINISHED........that is ETERNAL.

WE, you....us....we dont DO THAT........so, that is not something we KEEP.......its something we RECEVIED That GOD's Son has completed on The Cross..

Now, if later your "head", your "thinking"......becomes, serious screwed up......seriously DECEIVED, because some Liar on This Forum who can't understand God's Grace has lead you to falsely believe that you can "lose your Salvation".....then if you believe you have......
= God doesn't.
So, that is YOUR OWN HEAD.........doing that to you......you have been deceived.

Or, lets say you have some issue in life...and you are crushed...and you blame God like this.....>"why did you let that happen to me".

So, now you HATE GOD.

Now........How does that affect what JESUS has FINISNED 2000 Yrs ago on The Cross, that is given to you by GOD already..., as "the GIFT of Salvation"?

A.) It has no effect,.......zero.......none.

You are just become an angry bitter Christian..who has serious animosity against God who has ALREADY forgiven all your sin, and has given you "the Gift of Eternal Life".... and who lives inside you as "Christ in you", while you are so very upset and filled with hate.

Here is something for the NOOB diaper baby .. Hebrews 6:1 "christian".......to understand.., if possible.

God knows everything that is going to happen next.....as that is "God's Fore-Knowledge".

So, on the Day that God saved you.......He KNEW you would blame Him later, and hate Him.......and yet, He saved you anyway, because God's Salvation is not based on you, or your later behavior.........its only based on the finished work of Jesus on The Cross that is applied to you, for ETERNITY.

 

[quietthinker]

Becoming a "Christian" is caused by God, and completed by God, on behalf of a SINNER.

Salvation is not Temporary.......Its "Eternal LIFE".... and was completed by Jesus on The Cross, and He said so from The Cross..=.>"IT (Salvation) Is FINISHED..(Accomplished)""

So, a SINNER........gives God their Faith in Christ......and God gives to them, what Christ has FINISHED........that is ETERNAL.

WE, you....us....we dont DO THAT........so, that is not something we KEEP.......its something we RECEVIED That GOD's Son has completed on The Cross..

Now, if later your "head", your "thinking"......becomes, serious screwed up......seriously DECEIVED, because some Liar on This Forum who can't understand God's Grace has lead you to falsely believe that you can "lose your Salvation".....then if you believe you have......
= God doesn't.
So, that is YOUR OWN HEAD.........doing that to you......you have been deceived.

Or, lets say you have some issue in life...and you are crushed...and you blame God like this.....>"why did you let that happen to me".

So, now you HATE GOD.

Now........How does that affect what JESUS has FINISNED 2000 Yrs ago on The Cross, that is given to you by GOD already..., as "the GIFT of Salvation"?

A.) It has no effect,.......zero.......none.

You are just become an angry bitter Christian..who has serious animosity against God who has ALREADY forgiven all your sin, and has given you "the Gift of Eternal Life".... and who lives inside you as "Christ in you", while you are so very upset and filled with hate.

Here is something for the NOOB diaper baby .. Hebrews 6:1 "christian".......to understand.., if possible.

God knows everything that is going to happen next.....as that is "God's Fore-Knowledge".

So, on the Day that God saved you.......He KNEW you would blame Him later, and hate Him.......and yet, He saved you anyway, because God's Salvation is not based on you, or your later behavior.........its only based on the finished work of Jesus on The Cross that is applied to you, for ETERNITY.

Have you completed the 'how to' list yet.....and the condescension, Behold?

 

[shepherdsword]

Why do you have two duplicate threads on this topic?

 

[GodsGrace]

Why do you have two duplicate threads on this topic?

The mod should delete one....

 

[nedsk]

Becoming a "Christian" is caused by God, and completed by God, on behalf of a SINNER.

Salvation is not Temporary.......Its "Eternal LIFE".... and was completed by Jesus on The Cross, and He said so from The Cross..=.>"IT (Salvation) Is FINISHED..(Accomplished)""

So, a SINNER........gives God their Faith in Christ......and God gives to them, what Christ has FINISHED........that is ETERNAL.

WE, you....us....we dont DO THAT........so, that is not something we KEEP.......its something we RECEVIED That GOD's Son has completed on The Cross..

Now, if later your "head", your "thinking"......becomes, serious screwed up......seriously DECEIVED, because some Liar on This Forum who can't understand God's Grace has lead you to falsely believe that you can "lose your Salvation".....then if you believe you have......
= God doesn't.
So, that is YOUR OWN HEAD.........doing that to you......you have been deceived.

Or, lets say you have some issue in life...and you are crushed...and you blame God like this.....>"why did you let that happen to me".

So, now you HATE GOD.

Now........How does that affect what JESUS has FINISNED 2000 Yrs ago on The Cross, that is given to you by GOD already..., as "the GIFT of Salvation"?

A.) It has no effect,.......zero.......none.

You are just become an angry bitter Christian..who has serious animosity against God who has ALREADY forgiven all your sin, and has given you "the Gift of Eternal Life".... and who lives inside you as "Christ in you", while you are so very upset and filled with hate.

Here is something for the NOOB diaper baby .. Hebrews 6:1 "christian".......to understand.., if possible.

God knows everything that is going to happen next.....as that is "God's Fore-Knowledge".

So, on the Day that God saved you.......He KNEW you would blame Him later, and hate Him.......and yet, He saved you anyway, because God's Salvation is not based on you, or your later behavior.........its only based on the finished work of Jesus on The Cross that is applied to you, for ETERNITY.

But you're still saved even if you hate Jesus right? As long as you believe thats sufficient

 

[David Lamb]

But you're still saved even if you hate Jesus right? As long as you believe thats sufficient

That doesn't make sense, unless you imagine that believing in Jesus means simply believing that He exists/existed. The words of the apostles to the Philippian jailer were: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." Yes, believe that He is Lord, that He is Saviour ("Jesus" means "Jehovah saves"), and that He is anointed by God the Father ("Christ" means "anointed.") How can someone hate the One Who endured so much to be their Saviour?

 

[GodsGrace]

That doesn't make sense, unless you imagine that believing in Jesus means simply believing that He exists/existed. The words of the apostles to the Philippian jailer were: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." Yes, believe that He is Lord, that He is Saviour ("Jesus" means "Jehovah saves"), and that He is anointed by God the Father ("Christ" means "anointed.") How can someone hate the One Who endured so much to be their Saviour?

The above is for @nedsk

Of course his reply was tongue in cheek.

But you've made a great point which DENIES and rejects all your other posts which I've read.

You're right.
We are to BELIEVE in Jesus.
BELIEVE, as it was meant back then.

So then if we believe, we must obey.

And yet, some deny this and claim we can not be obedient to God but still be saved.

Incredible.

 

[GodsGrace]

Becoming a "Christian" is caused by God, and completed by God, on behalf of a SINNER.

Salvation is not Temporary.......Its "Eternal LIFE".... and was completed by Jesus on The Cross, and He said so from The Cross..=.>"IT (Salvation) Is FINISHED..(Accomplished)""

So, a SINNER........gives God their Faith in Christ......and God gives to them, what Christ has FINISHED........that is ETERNAL.

WE, you....us....we dont DO THAT........so, that is not something we KEEP.......its something we RECEVIED That GOD's Son has completed on The Cross..

Now, if later your "head", your "thinking"......becomes, serious screwed up......seriously DECEIVED, because some Liar on This Forum who can't understand God's Grace has lead you to falsely believe that you can "lose your Salvation".....then if you believe you have......
= God doesn't.
So, that is YOUR OWN HEAD.........doing that to you......you have been deceived.

Or, lets say you have some issue in life...and you are crushed...and you blame God like this.....>"why did you let that happen to me".

So, now you HATE GOD.

Now........How does that affect what JESUS has FINISNED 2000 Yrs ago on The Cross, that is given to you by GOD already..., as "the GIFT of Salvation"?

A.) It has no effect,.......zero.......none.

You are just become an angry bitter Christian..who has serious animosity against God who has ALREADY forgiven all your sin, and has given you "the Gift of Eternal Life".... and who lives inside you as "Christ in you", while you are so very upset and filled with hate.

Here is something for the NOOB diaper baby .. Hebrews 6:1 "christian".......to understand.., if possible.

God knows everything that is going to happen next.....as that is "God's Fore-Knowledge".

So, on the Day that God saved you.......He KNEW you would blame Him later, and hate Him.......and yet, He saved you anyway, because God's Salvation is not based on you, or your later behavior.........its only based on the finished work of Jesus on The Cross that is applied to you, for ETERNITY.

Do obeying God will lead one to hate Him.
Great teaching Behold.

How about some scripture to support this weird idea?

Jesus said if we LOVE Him we will keep His commandments.
John 14:15

Sounds like the opposite of what You post.

I hope new Christians are not mislead by your odd ideas.

 

[David Lamb]

The above is for @nedsk

Of course his reply was tongue in cheek.

But you've made a great point which DENIES and rejects all your other posts which I've read.

You're right.
We are to BELIEVE in Jesus.
BELIEVE, as it was meant back then.

So then if we believe, we must obey.

And yet, some deny this and claim we can not be obedient to God but still be saved.

Incredible.

Sorry, but in what way has my post here denied and rejected all my other posts which you've read? I have, since I became a Christian over 50 years ago now, always believed that we must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. I also believe that, as Ephesians 2:10 says, good works/obedience must follow belief; indeed, believing itself is obedience.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sorry, but in what way has my post here denied and rejected all my other posts which you've read? I have, since I became a Christian over 50 years ago now, always believed that we must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. I also believe that, as Ephesians 2:10 says, good works/obedience must follow belief; indeed, believing itself is obedience.

Cannot go back to check.
You seem to post this idea that faith is all that is necessary and works are not part of believing.
If I'm incorrect I apologize and ask that you be careful what you write.

There are some on these forums that will plainly state that obedience to God is not necessary because Jesus had already done everything, we are to do nothing to stay saved...in fact some teach that doing good works is sinful because it's trying to "help" God.

I wonder at times why it should even be necessary to have this debate.

 

[David Lamb]

Cannot go back to check.
You seem to post this idea that faith is all that is necessary and works are not part of believing.
If I'm incorrect I apologize and ask that you be careful what you write.

No, I have never said that works are not necessary. What I have said is that to be saved, one must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, then works will follow, not to make us any more saved, but to show that our faith/belief is genuine:

“8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph 2:8-10 NKJV)

There are some on these forums that will plainly state that obedience to God is not necessary because Jesus had already done everything, we are to do nothing to stay saved...in fact some teach that doing good works is sinful because it's trying to "help" God.

I would agree that Jesus has done everything to achieve our salvation, but in view of passages such as Ephesians 2:8-10, I certainly do not believe that doing good works is sinful. It would be sinful if we thought our good works made us somehow worthy of God saving us.

I wonder at times why it should even be necessary to have this debate.

 

[Taken]

@David Lamb God bless you.
@Behold God bless you.

Appears…some establish their opinions, disagreements, challenging ON ignorance of their failure comprehend the meaning of words.

Belief is Not a mans WORKS.

Belief is a mans acceptance of the Lord God…TO receive SALVATION.

Mans Works is the Godly acceptable Actions of the man TO receive REWARDS.

WHAT and WHEN a man (Heartfully) Believes determines “WHO” Shall Save the mans SOUL.

God SAVES… ancient men, historical men, modern men, future men;
WHO…believe IN God & His Word.
WHO…believe IN Gods Messiah.
WHO…believe Jesus was Sent by God.
WHO…willingly will Bodily Die, to hold, stand, verify, maintain their Belief.

Christ Jesus SAVES…historical men, modern men, future men;
WHO…believe IN God & His Word.
WHO…believe IN Gods Messiah.
WHO…believe Jesus was Sent by God.
WHO…believe Gods Word IS Jesus.
WHO…believe God declared JESUS, “HIS” Only Begotten Son.
WHO…believe Jesus IS the Truth, Way, Life.
WHO…believe Jesus IS the Messiah.
WHO…believe Jesus IS the Christ, the Lord.
WHO…believe Christ IS the Power of God.
WHO…willingly Call on Christ the Lord Jesus.

WHO…willingly “CONFESS” To the Lord;
…Sorrow, Regret, For having “HAD NOT” Believed.
…True Heartful Belief.
…Desire, able, willingness to lay down their Own Bodily Life ONCE, (Crucified with Lord Jesus’ One time Crucified Body);
FOR their, Belief, Verifying, Standing With The Lord God Almighty.

Key IS LORD Gods Offering…
Key IS Christ the Lord Jesus’ Offering….

Key IS a mans acceptance or rejection of Gods Offering / of Christ the Lord Jesus’ Offering.

Key is “IF” a man accepts the Lord God Almighty’s OFFERING….
And “WHEN!”

WHEN… Accepting…is ALWAYS when the mans “IS Bodily Alive”.

Bodily Life of a natural mortal man “IS” his Blood.

Naturally mortal physically Dead men, Know Nothing.

The Lord God Almighty Knows All mortal men, WHO SHALL and who Shall NOT…
“BELIEVE”…
And HAS “Prepared” …an Eternal Destiny and Place FOR Them WHO ARE:
With or Without the Lord God Almighty.

Jesus… was Never an Earthly human of Dust.
Jesus “AS” a human…
Does NOT mean Jesus “IS” a human.
(Which many falsely teach… Jesus was God AND “A human”. )

Heartful Belief…BEFORE a humans Bodily Death “IS Required” to Receive Salvation.

Salvation IS given a “BELIEVER”…”ONCE”…and “AFTER” a mans accounted Bodily Death.”
(which few appear to comprehend)

Once a bodily accounted Dead man IS Saved…
He is KEPT Saved, by the Power of God.
(Which few comprehend)

Human men WHO have Been Made Saved, by the Power of God….DO NOT Ever become Made “unsaved”!
(As some falsely teach.)

Sin Against the Lord God, IS, Unbelief.
(Yet men routinely Claim, men Sin Against men.)
Are you Committing a Sin Against men, because you don’t Believe “in” another man?


WHO Can Forgive SIN? Men?


SALVATION Offering is one thing.

SALVATION Giving is another thing.

SALVATION IS the Lord Gods GIFT to Offer and Give AS He pleases.

SALVATION :
ONCE Given a human man;
It is a Gift retained unto that man Forever.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[David Lamb]

@David Lamb God bless you.
@Behold God bless you.

Appears…some establish their opinions, disagreements, challenging ON ignorance of their failure comprehend the meaning of words.

Belief is Not a mans WORKS.

I agree that belief/faith is not works.

Belief is a mans acceptance of the Lord God…TO receive SALVATION.

I believe it's more than that. It's believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, as the apostles said to the jailer.

Mans Works is the Godly acceptable Actions of the man TO receive REWARDS.

Ephesians 2:10 talks of good works as having been prepared by God for the saved sinner to walk in. Good works are done from obedience and a desire to pleased God, not only to gain a reward.

WHAT and WHEN a man (Heartfully) Believes determines “WHO” Shall Save the mans SOUL.

Over and over again, we are told in the bible that it is belief in Jesus Christ. Talking of Jesus Christ, the apostles said:

“11 “This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”” (Ac 4:11-12 NKJV)

God SAVES… ancient men, historical men, modern men, future men;
WHO…believe IN God & His Word.
WHO…believe IN Gods Messiah.
WHO…believe Jesus was Sent by God.
WHO…willingly will Bodily Die, to hold, stand, verify, maintain their Belief.

Christ Jesus SAVES…historical men, modern men, future men;
WHO…believe IN God & His Word.
WHO…believe IN Gods Messiah.
WHO…believe Jesus was Sent by God.
WHO…believe Gods Word IS Jesus.
WHO…believe God declared JESUS, “HIS” Only Begotten Son.
WHO…believe Jesus IS the Truth, Way, Life.
WHO…believe Jesus IS the Messiah.
WHO…believe Jesus IS the Christ, the Lord.
WHO…believe Christ IS the Power of God.
WHO…willingly Call on Christ the Lord Jesus.

I am not sure what you mean by this. It seems you are saying (and forgive me if I have misunderstood) that some people are saved by God the Father, and others are saved by Jesus Christ, God's Son. While I would agree that the whole godhead is involved in the salvation of a sinner, it is Jesus Christ Who is called Saviour.

WHO…willingly “CONFESS” To the Lord;
…Sorrow, Regret, For having “HAD NOT” Believed.
…True Heartful Belief.
…Desire, able, willingness to lay down their Own Bodily Life ONCE, (Crucified with Lord Jesus’ One time Crucified Body);
FOR their, Belief, Verifying, Standing With The Lord God Almighty.

Key IS LORD Gods Offering…
Key IS Christ the Lord Jesus’ Offering….

Key IS a mans acceptance or rejection of Gods Offering / of Christ the Lord Jesus’ Offering.

Key is “IF” a man accepts the Lord God Almighty’s OFFERING….
And “WHEN!”

WHEN… Accepting…is ALWAYS when the mans “IS Bodily Alive”.

Bodily Life of a natural mortal man “IS” his Blood.

Naturally mortal physically Dead men, Know Nothing.

The Lord God Almighty Knows All mortal men, WHO SHALL and who Shall NOT…
“BELIEVE”…
And HAS “Prepared” …an Eternal Destiny and Place FOR Them WHO ARE:
With or Without the Lord God Almighty.

Jesus… was Never an Earthly human of Dust.
Jesus “AS” a human…
Does NOT mean Jesus “IS” a human.
(Which many falsely teach… Jesus was God AND “A human”. )

It is biblical, not false, to say that Jesus Christ is both fully God, and (since the incarnation) fully Man:

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.” (1Ti 3:16 NKJV)

“8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;” (Col 2:8-9 NKJV)

Heartful Belief…BEFORE a humans Bodily Death “IS Required” to Receive Salvation.

Agreed.

Salvation IS given a “BELIEVER”…”ONCE”…and “AFTER” a mans accounted Bodily Death.”
(which few appear to comprehend)

Scripture does not teach that we have to wait for our bodily death before we are saved:

“1 ¶ And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.”

“4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),” (Eph 2:1-5 NKJV)

Paul is telling the Ephesian Christians that they have been saved, not that they must await their bodily death to be saved.

Once a bodily accounted Dead man IS Saved…
He is KEPT Saved, by the Power of God.
(Which few comprehend)

Those very words, "kept by the power of God," were written by Peter to Christians who had not yet died bodily:

“3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (1Pe 1:3-5 NKJV)

Human men WHO have Been Made Saved, by the Power of God….DO NOT Ever become Made “unsaved”!
(As some falsely teach.)

agreed.

Sin Against the Lord God, IS, Unbelief.
(Yet men routinely Claim, men Sin Against men.)
Are you Committing a Sin Against men, because you don’t Believe “in” another man?


WHO Can Forgive SIN? Men?


Glory to God,
Taken

Yes, I agree, all sin is against God. As David wrote:

“Against You, You only, have I sinned, And done [this] evil in Your sight—That You may be found just when You speak, And blameless when You judge.” (Ps 51:4 NKJV)

 

[Taken]

I believe it's more than that. It's believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, as the apostles said to the jailer.

Considering. For 4,000 years before Jesus was Sent to Earth, human men had never heard the name Jesus, nor the Title Christ, to confess a belief in Him…yet men were Saved.
To this day, particularly Israelites / commonly today all called Jews… believe Jesus existed, believe in God, but do not particularly believe Jesus is the Messiah…
Will they be saved? Yes, by God.

Isa 12:
[2] Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
First Resurrection.

Ephesians 2:10 talks of good works as having been prepared by God for the saved sinner to walk in. Good works are done from obedience and a desire to pleased God, not only to gain a reward.

Wasn’t speaking of WHY a man serves God.
Rather of Gods REWARD For a mans Service unto God.

Over and over again, we are told in the bible that it is belief in Jesus Christ.

Sure…. For the last 2,000 years.
Before that (4,000) years… Jesus Christ was never mentioned.

“11 “This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”” (Ac 4:11-12 NKJV)

Jesus speaking…a man in my han, in my Fathers hand…is a Saved man.


I am not sure what you mean by this. It seems you are saying (and forgive me if I have misunderstood) that some people are saved by God the Father, and others are saved by Jesus Christ, God's Son. While I would agree that the whole godhead is involved in the salvation of a sinner, it is Jesus Christ Who is called Saviour.

It is biblical, not false, to say that Jesus Christ is both fully God, and (since the incarnation) fully Man:

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.” (1Ti 3:16 NKJV)

“8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;” (Col 2:8-9 NKJV)

Agreed.

Scripture does not teach that we have to wait for our bodily death before we are saved:

“1 ¶ And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.”

“4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),” (Eph 2:1-5 NKJV)

Paul is telling the Ephesian Christians that they have been saved, not that they must await their bodily death to be saved.

Those very words, "kept by the power of God," were written by Peter to Christians who had not yet died bodily:

“3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (1Pe 1:3-5 NKJV)

agreed.

Yes, I agree, all sin is against God. As David wrote:

“Against You, You only, have I sinned, And done [this] evil in Your sight—That You may be found just when You speak, And blameless when You judge.” (Ps 51:4 NKJV)
[/QUOTE]

 

[David Lamb]

Considering. For 4,000 years before Jesus was Sent to Earth, human men had never heard the name Jesus, nor the Title Christ, to confess a belief in Him…yet men were Saved.
To this day, particularly Israelites / commonly today all called Jews… believe Jesus existed, believe in God, but do not particularly believe Jesus is the Messiah…
Will they be saved? Yes, by God.

Isa 12:
[2] Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
First Resurrection.




Wasn’t speaking of WHY a man serves God.
Rather of Gods REWARD For a mans Service unto God.



Sure…. For the last 2,000 years.
Before that (4,000) years… Jesus Christ was never mentioned.



Jesus speaking…a man in my han, in my Fathers hand…is a Saved man.


I am not sure what you mean by this. It seems you are saying (and forgive me if I have misunderstood) that some people are saved by God the Father, and others are saved by Jesus Christ, God's Son. While I would agree that the whole godhead is involved in the salvation of a sinner, it is Jesus Christ Who is called Saviour.

It is biblical, not false, to say that Jesus Christ is both fully God, and (since the incarnation) fully Man:

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.” (1Ti 3:16 NKJV)

“8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;” (Col 2:8-9 NKJV)

Agreed.

Scripture does not teach that we have to wait for our bodily death before we are saved:

“1 ¶ And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.”

“4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),” (Eph 2:1-5 NKJV)

Paul is telling the Ephesian Christians that they have been saved, not that they must await their bodily death to be saved.

Those very words, "kept by the power of God," were written by Peter to Christians who had not yet died bodily:

“3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (1Pe 1:3-5 NKJV)

agreed.

Yes, I agree, all sin is against God. As David wrote:

“Against You, You only, have I sinned, And done [this] evil in Your sight—That You may be found just when You speak, And blameless when You judge.” (Ps 51:4 NKJV)

Although not named "Jesus Christ" in the Old Testament, all the way through the OT is teaching about the coming Messiah, starting just after the Fall, when God made that wonderful promise about "the Seed of the woman":

“And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”” (Ge 3:15 NKJV)

The "you" there is the serpent, that is, the devil. Of course, OT people's understanding of the Messiah was limited. But they did know about Him.

 

[Behold]

Belief is Not a mans WORKS.

Faith is Hope that is Trust.
And in the context of Faith in Christ, its putting your trust in The Gospel, (Paul's) whereby you believe in Jesus, whom you can't see.

This is explained as ....

""""Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."""

 

[Taken]

Was interrupted with my animals during my last post… but anyway…

Although not named "Jesus Christ" in the Old Testament,

Agree.

all the way through the OT is teaching about the coming Messiah, starting just after the Fall, when God made that wonderful promise about "the Seed of the woman":

What is THIS “Seed”?
What is THIS “woman”?

“And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”” (Ge 3:15 NKJV)

The "you" there is the serpent, that is, the devil. Of course, OT people's understanding of the Messiah was limited. But they did know about Him.

The devil is “you” “your” “her” Seed?
You, Devil is …A man? A woman? Her? She?

The Division is between a Her and a He?
He Who… ? A Her, She, He?
The Seed of a Her? She? Jesus? God?

Knowing About, is not the same as believing IN.
Believing IN is Not the Same as BEING IN.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, I have never said that works are not necessary. What I have said is that to be saved, one must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, then works will follow, not to make us any more saved, but to show that our faith/belief is genuine:

I disagree and was correct in how you post.

OF COURSE works show that we are obedient to God.
This is not my point and I'd like to clarify my point, which some Christians do not agree with even though it's what the NT teaches.

God knows whether or not our faith is genuine.
Our works don't help God to know our heart.

Our works DO keep us saved.
If we are NOT obedient to God,,,we will, at some point, forfeit our salvation.

So the issue goes deeper than some are willing to state.

“8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph 2:8-10 NKJV)

I would agree that Jesus has done everything to achieve our salvation, but in view of passages such as Ephesians 2:8-10, I certainly do not believe that doing good works is sinful. It would be sinful if we thought our good works made us somehow worthy of God saving us.

But our good works DO make us worthy to remain saved.

Jesus taught that we need to be a part of the Kingdom of God.
In order to be a part of the Kingdom of God,,,,our good works are necessary.
NECESSARY.

If you do not agree with this....then something is missing in our understanding of good works/deeds,
which Jesus demanded we do.

 

[Behold]

But our good works DO make us worthy to remain saved.

Only Jesus's Sacrifice to GOD on your Behalf, "makes you worthy to remain saved".
And that you have the incredible audacity to post that your filthy works, are equal to God's Son's perfect sacrifice for you... is a pathetic acknowlegement that your understanding of the Cross of Christ is ZERO... Totally ZERO.

 

[Taken]

Our works DO keep us saved.

Disagree.
The Power of God, the Seed of God, keeps A Saved man Saved.

If we are NOT obedient to God,,,we will, at some point, forfeit our salvation.

Elaborating.
Not in Belief at time of Bodily Death…
Yes Salvation NEVER Received will be forfeited.

But our good works DO make us worthy to remain saved.

Disagree.
Belief iS the “cost / Worth” For the Gift of Salvation to be Given from the Lord God and Received unto the man.
Once Salvation is Received… it is Permanent.
Can not be lost / revoked.

Jesus taught that we need to be a part of the Kingdom of God.
In order to be a part of the Kingdom of God,,,,our good works are necessary.
NECESSARY.

Belief is the “Work of God” that a man can Do.

“Your works”… “a mans works”, Do Not net you Salvation or keep Salvation a man has Received.”
Works a man Does… is Rewarded with “treasures”, NOT rewarded with the Gift of Salvation.

If you do not agree with this....then something is missing in our understanding of good works/deeds,
which Jesus demanded we do.

Yep.
A man Doing “Gods Work” of Belief…
Scriptural position…
Or
A man doing “his works” ( of charity, loving, tending, etc.) your position.