Moses Law : is NOT made for Christians #3

[faithhopecharity]

more

thks

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13 and cannot be repeated

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the church (ark of salvation) by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the (ark of salvation) by God thru baptism!


Christ instituted the holy church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation. (repent and believe the gospel) with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls by baptism!
Matt 28:19

 

[faithhopecharity]

But you're not even baptize correctly. You're not saved? Are all who are baptized in Jesus' Name unsaved? You've already admitted that water baptism is not required for salvation!

ordinarily required not absolutely required

stop twisting

 

[faithhopecharity]

So the thief on the cross is in Hell? Even tho Jesus said the thief would be with Him in "paradise" TODAY?

chubby checker

 

[Jack]

ordinarily required not absolutely required

stop twisting

So why are you obsessed with water baptism?

 

[Jack]

chubby checker

Translation: DUH!

 

[faithhopecharity]

So why are you obsessed with water baptism?

Christ is the way the truth and the life!

that life comes by the initiation of baptism

thks

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13 and cannot be repeated

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the church (ark of salvation) by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the (ark of salvation) by God thru baptism!


Christ instituted the holy church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation. (repent and believe the gospel) with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls by baptism!
Matt 28:19

 

[faithhopecharity]

The biblical mandate of God’s work of creation!

Water and the spirit!

First creation:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

(water and the spirit)

Noah:

Gen 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove (representing the spirit) from him…

(Water and the spirit)

Red Sea:

Led thru the waters by the spirit.
Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

(Water and the spirit)

Josuha

Joshua and the people of Israel crossing of the Jordan led by the spirit.

Joshua 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.

(Water and the spirit)

Prophecy of the new creation: (new covenant)

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you…
acts 2:38-39 “this promise” is fulfilled in the Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration!

(Water and the Spirit)

Baptism of Jesus

Jn 1:31 I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

(Water and the spirit)

New creation by water and the spirit

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Vs 22 they went to the river (water) and baptized!

(Water and the spirit)

Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration is by: WATER AND THE SPIRIT!


No one is born again by:

“the spirit alone”!
Or
“Faith alone”!

Water AND the spirit is the biblical mandate!

the purpose our creation is the means of our eternal salvation!

To KNOW, LOVE, & SERVE God!

eph 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

thks

 

[Jack]

Christ is the way the truth and the life!

that life comes by the initiation of baptism

You just admitted water baptism is not required!

 

[Angelina]

@faithhopecharity, I agree that believers are called to endure, abide, continue in the faith, and remain faithful. The New Testament is full of such exhortations. But that is exactly the question I have been asking: how do you reconcile those warnings with the equally clear promises that God preserves His people?

Paul says God will complete the work He began (Phil. 1:6), that those He justified He also glorified (Rom. 8:30), and that Christ will confirm believers to the end (1 Cor. 1:8-9).

So the issue is not whether perseverance is necessary. We both agree it is. The issue is whether perseverance is ultimately grounded in God's preserving grace or in man's ability to remain faithful.

The passages you cited show the necessity of perseverance. The passages I cited show the source of perseverance.

How do you harmonize both sets of texts without making God's promises dependent on human faithfulness?

 

[faithhopecharity]

Translation: DUH!

you like to do the twist! lol

 

[Jack]

you like to do the twist! lol

If you mean the Scripture twist I'll leave that to you. Did you get baptized right? In Jesus' Name?

 

[faithhopecharity]

You just admitted water baptism is not required!

ordinary as opposed to extraordinary

 

[faithhopecharity]

@faithhopecharity, I agree that believers are called to endure, abide, continue in the faith, and remain faithful. The New Testament is full of such exhortations. But that is exactly the question I have been asking: how do you reconcile those warnings with the equally clear promises that God preserves His people?

Paul says God will complete the work He began (Phil. 1:6), that those He justified He also glorified (Rom. 8:30), and that Christ will confirm believers to the end (1 Cor. 1:8-9).

So the issue is not whether perseverance is necessary. We both agree it is. The issue is whether perseverance is ultimately grounded in God's preserving grace or in man's ability to remain faithful.

The passages you cited show the necessity of perseverance. The passages I cited show the source of perseverance.

How do you harmonize both sets of texts without making God's promises dependent on human faithfulness?

perhaps these refer to the new covenant church in general not specific individuals

thks

 

[Angelina]

perhaps these refer to the new covenant church in general not specific individuals

thks

@faithhopecharity, I don’t think either explanation fits all the texts.
If it’s “loss of rewards,” the language of being cut off, burned, or judged doesn’t fit how rewards are described elsewhere.
And if it’s “they were never real believers,” then Hebrews 6 and 10 describe them in covenant terms that are hard to reduce to outsiders.

It seems the New Testament holds both God’s preserving grace and real warnings together rather than dissolving one into the other.

 

[quietthinker]

Moses Law : is NOT made for Christians #3​

I s'pose Christians are not part of humanity.

 

[faithhopecharity]

dare I ask? how do we walk in the spirit?

thks

walk in the flesh involves the deeds of the flesh (7 deadly sins)

Pride, anger, lust, gluttony, sloth, greed, envy.

walk in the spirit involves the deeds of the spirt (7 opposite virtues)

Humility, meekness, self-denile,
Temperance, diligence, generosity, charity.

 

[PeterAndroz]

@PeterAndroz, Paul repeatedly speaks of God's preserving work in believers:

Philippians 1:6, "He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ."
Romans 8:30, Those whom God justified, He also glorified.
1 Corinthians 1:8–9, Christ "shall also confirm you unto the end."
2 Timothy 1:12, Paul says God is "able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."
1 Thessalonians 5:23–24, "Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it."

So when I said sealing speaks of God's preserving work, I was not basing that on Ephesians 4:30 alone. Paul consistently teaches God's faithfulness in keeping His people.

My question remains: how do you reconcile those promises with Paul's own warnings about continuing in the faith (Col. 1:23)?

Col 1:23 - continue in faith
If you equate Col 1:23 to performance as a requirement to REMAIN saved then these verses are a problem :-
Titus 3:
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
...
If faith in Col 1:23 dictates that belief in the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 Gospel must remain then to me that makes sense since IF belief in the Gospel is the requirement then belief must be ongoing, yet some others claim that 2 Tim 2:13 teaches otherwise.

 

[Angelina]

Col 1:23 - continue in faith
If you equate Col 1:23 to performance as a requirement to REMAIN saved then these verses are a problem :-
Titus 3:
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
...
If faith in Col 1:23 dictates that belief in the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 Gospel must remain then to me that makes sense since IF belief in the Gospel is the requirement then belief must be ongoing, yet some others claim that 2 Tim 2:13 teaches otherwise.

@PeterAndroz,
I don't equate continuing in the faith with works-righteousness. Paul doesn't either.
The passages you cited contrast faith with works of the law. Colossians 1:23 isn't talking about works of the law; it's talking about continuing in faith and not being moved away from the hope of the gospel.

My question isn't whether we are justified by faith apart from works; I fully agree with Paul on that. My question is why Paul gives real warnings about continuing in the faith if perseverance is irrelevant.

Paul simultaneously teaches God's faithfulness in preserving His people (Phil 1:6; 1 Cor 1:8-9; 1 Thess 5:23-24) and also exhorts believers to continue in the faith Col 1:23. How do you understand those two themes fitting together?

 

[PeterAndroz]

@PeterAndroz,
I don't equate continuing in the faith with works-righteousness. Paul doesn't either.
The passages you cited contrast faith with works of the law. Colossians 1:23 isn't talking about works of the law; it's talking about continuing in faith and not being moved away from the hope of the gospel.

My question isn't whether we are justified by faith apart from works; I fully agree with Paul on that. My question is why Paul gives real warnings about continuing in the faith if perseverance is irrelevant.

Paul simultaneously teaches God's faithfulness in preserving His people (Phil 1:6; 1 Cor 1:8-9; 1 Thess 5:23-24) and also exhorts believers to continue in the faith Col 1:23. How do you understand those two themes fitting together?

Perseverance as in effort/works/performance or continuing to believe the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 Gospel ?
eg Where does Paul teach 'effort/works/performance' as a condition to remain saved/sealed ?

 

[Angelina]

@PeterAndroz,
I don't think perseverance should be reduced to either "works" or "continuing belief" as though those are the only options.
My question isn't where Paul teaches that salvation is maintained by meritorious works. I agree that justification is by grace through faith apart from works of the law.

What I'm asking is why Paul repeatedly gives conditional warnings to believers.
For example, Colossians 1:23 says, "if ye continue in the faith." 1 Corinthians 15:2 says, "by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you." Romans 11:22 warns, "otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

Those warnings are not about earning salvation through works, but neither do they sound irrelevant.

If your position is that continuing to believe the gospel is necessary, then we may agree that Paul's warnings about continuing in faith are meaningful. If your position is that even abandoning belief has no effect on one's standing before God, then how do you understand Paul's warnings and conditions?