Muslim Uprising

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Brother James

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Do any of you really and truly believe any of the events in the Muslim world, including the murder of our ambassador and emassy workers, was really about an amateur movie on youtube?

The news media reported extensively about Mitt Romney's remarks and the president's snarky comment that Romney would "rather shoot first and aim later." Is this news really about Mitt Romney? It seems that the Libyans say there was no protest going on at the time of the attack, something our White House says was true. Isn't that news? Isn't the White House's handling of this event news? Why are they not covering the fact that our country was tipped off about this plan days before it happened? If Bush was president, would that kind of information be buries? You have to look at internet sites and blog sites to see this news.

Does America really have a propaganda machine supporting the current government the way Hitler had in Germany in the 1930's? Does this frighten any one else?
 

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Choir Loft
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The White House said that they had no warning of the coming demonstrations, yet news stories the weekend prior to 9/11/12 stated that the staff and families had been evacuated.

Coverage of the actual riots listed the US ambassador and several soldiers killed. No staff or family was involved, killed, kidnapped or molested probably because they weren't there.
'
News stories today stated that some of the demonstrators were PAID to be there to create mischief and that Libya warned Washington three days prior to the events.

The next question is why and the answer is simple.

Fact: Obama lied about not knowing in advance of the demonstrations.
Fact: The demonstrations were timed, planned and paid to happen on the anniversary of 9/11 - an American, not Muslim date of importance.

Summary: It is an axiom of political expediency that a foreign threat will generate domestic support for a leader, however wicked or just he may be. Fidel Castro made a career of proclaiming the danger of US intervention to the Cuban people. Nothing of consequence materialized, but Fidel managed to use the ploy to live to a ripe old age.

Conclusion: The demonstrations in Egypt and Libya were invented by the Obama administration to generate voter support. Once again the American government plays games with people's lives. American people. The Federal government is not to be trusted.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
 

Brother James

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Jun 2, 2008
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This whole thing makes no sense, and it makes even less sense that the Obama administration would play it the way they have. Something is obviously going on that they don't want to talk about. So...

Try this theory on for size. It is known that Ambassador Chris Stevens was fluent in Arabic and that he was the chief U.S. laison with the rebels when they were fighting Qadaffi. He negotiated the agreements by which the U.S. supplied arms to the rebels. That is not the role of an ambassador, and he was not the ambassador at that time. That is a role that is normally played by CIA. This took place in Benghazi. Now, Stevens was once again in Benghazi along with other men who were first said to be "marines" but then later were identified as "former Navy seals". They flew in with Stevens to Benghazi (a very dangerous place, and not where the embassy is located) and were picked up at the airport in an unmarked non-armored vehicle. One of those "former Navy seals" had been interviewed by ABC news three weeks earlier and he told them his job was to track down all the shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles that had gone missing when the Qadaffi regime fell. The fear was that al Qaida would get them (which they almost assuredly have). People who do that kind of work are not the security team for ambassadors, they are... you guessed it, CIA. Why would an ambassador (who was clearly CIA) go with others to Benghazi, a place that is as hot as a firecracker with Muslim extremism, with other CIA who were trying to destroy these dangerous weapons? Okay, the rest of this is just speculation. Imagine that they got a tip that there was a large cache of these shoulder-fired missiles, which could take down a 747 airplane anywhere in the world, and a meeting was set up. Imagine that this was a carefully planned ruse to get the ambassador and assassinate him on 9/11, the anniversary of the WTC attack.

Now does the whole scenario start to make sense?
 

Eltanin

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Aug 22, 2012
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This is a mess altogether... There was something certainly brewing before the video made it's Mid-Eastern TV appearance in Egypt...

I believe there were already attacks in place, but the video becoming so public over there was enough to distract the rest of the public, and create a smoke screen for the real goings ons... Much like the media does over here...

Either way, we aren't going to get the truth in this matter, and whatever it is, it is probably more disheartening than we can imagine...
 

aspen

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I think the only thing we know for sure is that this thread captures our political biases in crystal clear fashion.
 

Brother James

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How so, aspen? I've tried to articulate a scenario that would explain the seemingly nonsensical explanation the administration is giving. If these men were indeed conducting CIA operations to try to find and destroy some very very dangerous weapons that are all the more dangerous in the hands of terrorists, the administration could hardly say so. I would not blame them in the least for insisting it was a spontaneous demonstration that went awry. Clearly it was something different than what they are insisting. This would explain it in a way that makes their actions/statements seem reasonable under the circumstances. Or do you think what they are saying happened is actually credible?
 

aspen

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How so, aspen? I've tried to articulate a scenario that would explain the seemingly nonsensical explanation the administration is giving. If these men were indeed conducting CIA operations to try to find and destroy some very very dangerous weapons that are all the more dangerous in the hands of terrorists, the administration could hardly say so. I would not blame them in the least for insisting it was a spontaneous demonstration that went awry. Clearly it was something different than what they are insisting. This would explain it in a way that makes their actions/statements seem reasonable under the circumstances. Or do you think what they are saying happened is actually credible?

Because people are responding to your OP through the lenses of their political bias. As far as you question regarding credibility - all we can do is speculate. In the past, I have noticed that the media and many Americans believe the White House knows a lot more than they really know.
 

Eltanin

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Aug 22, 2012
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I don't think the White House knows... Yet they are trying to convince the US that a singular explanation covers the totality... Which makes me suspect that there is allot more going on...

They are trying to pin all the riots in The Mid East on a video, but there have been videos and pictures and writings and it hasn't degenerated this far before... We have people claiming that the ambassador was murdered, and we have people claiming that the same people protesting were found him alive and tried to rescue him...

We have al Qaida claiming responsibility, and we have civilians who have no ties and no sympathy for al Qaida saying they only demonstrated because they want the US to show respect to the prophet...

I think this is indeed a mess... There is so much anger towards the US now that it is crazy to say that a video on You Tube is the whole reason this is going down... If anything it is the straw that broke the camel's back...

But I think most of the US citizenry is aware of what our reputation is, so why the need for an explanation, except for the usual re- or mis- direction?
 

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Choir Loft
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This whole thing makes no sense, and it makes even less sense that the Obama administration would play it the way they have. Something is obviously going on that they don't want to talk about. So...

Try this theory on for size. It is known that Ambassador Chris Stevens was fluent in Arabic and that he was the chief U.S. laison with the rebels when they were fighting Qadaffi. He negotiated the agreements by which the U.S. supplied arms to the rebels. That is not the role of an ambassador, and he was not the ambassador at that time. That is a role that is normally played by CIA. This took place in Benghazi. Now, Stevens was once again in Benghazi along with other men who were first said to be "marines" but then later were identified as "former Navy seals". They flew in with Stevens to Benghazi (a very dangerous place, and not where the embassy is located) and were picked up at the airport in an unmarked non-armored vehicle. One of those "former Navy seals" had been interviewed by ABC news three weeks earlier and he told them his job was to track down all the shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles that had gone missing when the Qadaffi regime fell. The fear was that al Qaida would get them (which they almost assuredly have). People who do that kind of work are not the security team for ambassadors, they are... you guessed it, CIA. Why would an ambassador (who was clearly CIA) go with others to Benghazi, a place that is as hot as a firecracker with Muslim extremism, with other CIA who were trying to destroy these dangerous weapons? Okay, the rest of this is just speculation. Imagine that they got a tip that there was a large cache of these shoulder-fired missiles, which could take down a 747 airplane anywhere in the world, and a meeting was set up. Imagine that this was a carefully planned ruse to get the ambassador and assassinate him on 9/11, the anniversary of the WTC attack.

Now does the whole scenario start to make sense?

Now that you mention it, I do remember reading bits and pieces of information that verify the facts as you state them. I did not know that Stevens was CIA, but am not surprised to learn of it. Neither do I doubt it. Your particular reasoning fits the facts as I know them too.

The facts are dots, but connecting the dots is tricky.

Other stories I've read include a Libyan warning to the US three days in advance of the 9/11 demonstrations. Could it be that the Libyan incident was a retaliation for a blown cover? I suppose we won't ever learn. Even if it did come out, would anyone care? Would there be an investigation? Would heads roll in DC? I seriously doubt it. Perhaps the Libyan thing was a side issue. All the Muslim demonstrations could simply be a bad temper that got out of hand. When you play with matches and ignite demonstrations, you risk getting burned.

The fact that the United States CIA has a relationship with al Qaeda is well known. When one holds a tiger by the tail, one risks getting mauled.

Do I still believe that the Egyptian demonstrations play into Obama's hand as far as generating support? Look at the polls. They did indeed reflect a momentary rise in support for the president, at least as far as CNN is concerned (and we all believe everything CNN says, don't we?).

Political bias? Of course there is political bias. We all speak from what we know. But if what I'm reading in the other posts in this thread is any indication it seems that the majority of writers here (who also keep up with news/propaganda), all have a serious 'bias' against swallowing every tid bit that comes out of the White House press announcements. The only real debate I read here is how much is swallowed. Not much if I read posts rightly.

As an aside, a reflection on the media news....
One of my news/propaganda sources is Pravda. I recently read a good column there. Pravda, as you know, is the Russian word for 'truth'. In the days of the old Soviet Union, Pravda was a public release of Communist party 'truth'. Another information source was called Isvestia. Isvestia in Russian means 'news'.

Anyway the article I read recently stated that in the old Soviet Union, Russians used to say "there is no truth in Pravda and no news in Isvestia".

I suppose the same may be said for much of what passes for media release these days in America. For most of us here, I believe that our personal 'bias' is based upon something more solid; the Word of God. Everything else is measured against it, and sadly is found lacking. Be that as it may, we do the best we can with what we have.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
 

Brother James

Active Member
Jun 2, 2008
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Melbourne, FL
Because people are responding to your OP through the lenses of their political bias. As far as you question regarding credibility - all we can do is speculate. In the past, I have noticed that the media and many Americans believe the White House knows a lot more than they really know.

If the White House really doesn't know that this is not about a youtube video, what does that say? That's the worst possible case for them as far as I can tell. I'd like to think they can't discuss the truth for some legitimate reason. Otherwise...
 

aspen

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Apr 25, 2012
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If the White House really doesn't know that this is not about a youtube video, what does that say? That's the worst possible case for them as far as I can tell. I'd like to think they can't discuss the truth for some legitimate reason. Otherwise...

Part of it is probably based on the utube video - even if it is just an excuse for muslims to attack us. Since when does any white house administration provide the whole truth?