Must a Christian Work to Keep Themself Sinless in Order to Keep Their Salvation?

[Taken]

Must a Christian Work to Keep Themself Sinless in Order to Keep Their Salvation?
OP ^

Incarnate Humans are never Sinless.
Converted Humans are Forgiven and their Sin COVERED. (...with Gods internal Spirit, ie. LIGHT...
Light makes the darkness of SIN, unable to be SEEN).

A man MUST have received FAITH from God...BEFORE they can become Saved.
It is the WORKS of God, that forgives and convertes the man.

Thereafter the works a man does, "that glorifies God", shall be rewarded, "that does not glorify God...shall be burned".
A mans works, neither SAVES him or KEEPS him SAVED.

1 Cor. 3:
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Required for what?

"loving your neighbor" means not to murder him (i guess it could indirectly apply)

You need work Barney. Lots of it

I tell you what you continue to tell people that its only an indirect requirement to put the love of God and his word first in a person's life and I'll continue to believe that it's required for a person to put the love of God and his word first in his/her life. Putting the love of God first means, you don't covet what belongs to another, or you don't murder someone or bear false witness against someone who you say you love etc. If you can't practice showing love to humans who you can see, especially toward those who are your spiritual brothers/sisters, then it's impossible for you to love the True God who you can't see. Without love you're not a Christian, you can argue about that all you want but you're not a Christian if you don't show love for your fellow man especially for those who are your spiritual sisters/brothers.

 

[Taken]

Nobody has “ complete love” for God nor his neighbor .....If that is the Standard in becoming “ fit for Heaven”, there ain’t NOBODY gonna make it there.....Frankly, what is needed is a “ Loop- Hole”..... I got mine....It’s Resting in the Gospel Of Grace .....you can find it in 1Cor15:1-4...... its for all sane men and women who do not measure up to God’s Standard ( perfection ) and know it and admit it.....

Agree.
God is Perfect, and when we are converted IN Christ, we are "PERFECTED" IN Him...
Not Perfect in ourselves....
"Perfect-ed IN Him".

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Salvation (unto eternal life) is of God, is by God, is by grace.

Tong
R4081

You still have to practice love for God and your fellow man, especially for those you say are your spiritual brother/sisters. If you don't practice that kind of love then you're not a Christian no matter how much you say you are. Showing love for God means you have faith that his way is the best way to live. So when he tells you to not covet what belongs to another or not to steal from another or to not bear false witness of another, etc you put that into practice, you don't ignore it as though it means nothing.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Salvation (unto eternal life) is of God, is by God, is by grace.

You still have to practice love for God and your fellow man, especially for those you say are your spiritual brother/sisters. If you don't practice that kind of love then you're not a Christian no matter how much you say you are. Showing love for God means you have faith that his way is the best way to live. So when he tells you to not covet what belongs to another or not to steal from another or to not bear false witness of another, etc you put that into practice, you don't ignore it as though it means nothing.

That would seem to really not believe that salvation unto eternal life is of God, by God, and by grace as could be understood in what Jesus revealed concerning it which I’ve shown in the OP in the link I provided you.

Loving God with all your heart, mind and soul, and neighbor as yourself, is what the saved ought to do. But not to be saved, for they are already saved by God.

Tong
R4082

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

That would seem to really not believe that salvation unto eternal life is of God, by God, and by grace as could be understood in what Jesus revealed concerning it which I’ve shown in the OP in the link I provided you.

Loving God with all your heart, mind and soul, and neighbor as yourself, is what the saved ought to do. But not to be saved, for they are already saved by God.

Tong
R4082

You can be saying you're saved all you want but if you do not put the love for the true God first in your, but instead you love something or someone more than God, God will not except that kind of love, God doesn't accept second place in anyone's life if they're truly one of his faithful servants.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That would seem to really not believe that salvation unto eternal life is of God, by God, and by grace as could be understood in what Jesus revealed concerning it which I’ve shown in the OP in the link I provided you.

Loving God with all your heart, mind and soul, and neighbor as yourself, is what the saved ought to do. But not to be saved, for they are already saved by God.

You can be saying you're saved all you want but if you do not put the love for the true God first in your, but instead you love something or someone more than God, God will not except that kind of love, God doesn't accept second place in anyone's life if they're truly one of his faithful servants.

Well, that does not take away the truth of what Jesus said, that is, “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”

As I already pointed out, Loving God with all your heart, mind and soul, and neighbor as yourself, is what the saved ought to do. But not to be saved, for they are already saved by God.

Whether one truly believes or not, is another matter. And it is not in any way, shape or form, a matter of saving oneself, but perhaps a matter of first, proving to oneself that he truly believes and is saved. And second, a testimony to others that Jesus Christ is in him and is saved.

Tong
R4084

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Well, that does not take away the truth of what Jesus said, that is, “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”

As I already pointed out, Loving God with all your heart, mind and soul, and neighbor as yourself, is what the saved ought to do. But not to be saved, for they are already saved by God.

If one is truly believes, that is another matter. And it is not in any way, shape or form, a matter of saving oneself, but perhaps a matter of first, proving to oneself that he truly believes and is saved. And second, a testimony to others that Jesus Christ is in him and is saved.

Tong
R4084

What ever you wish to believe is your choice, but I disagree with you, people who don't love God and their fellow man, especially those who they say are their spiritual brothers and sisters are not saved no matter how much they say they are. Just because a person gets himself/herself baptized and say they're Christians doesn't mean they necessarily are. Love is what unites True Christians and the love true Christians are suppose to have, I don't see among the Catholic and protestant church's

 

[DPMartin]

When Paul speaks about running the race to obtain the Prize, is he talking about the Prize of Salvation, or a prize which is a reward for deeds?

See 1 Cor. 9:24-27. "The prize" being here identified Is a "crown" and is not Salvation. A crown is a reward.

See Phil. 3:12-13 where Paul says he has "not obtained the prize." Is that supposed to mean he has not obtained Salvation? No. It means he has not obtained the reward for Godly service.

People constantly in error confuse Salvation with Discipleship. These people are known as Lordship preachers and Calvinists. We can pray for and help them.

by your posting you seem to think that in predestination it means salvation is the prize. nope they are not that stupid. the logic that God choses you, isn't something you work for is it?

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Required for what?

"loving your neighbor" means not to murder him (i guess it could indirectly apply)

You need work Barney. Lots of it

Actually, it is you who need work. Loving one's neighbor means obeying the last 6 commandments in the letter and spirit. It goes far beyond just refraining from the physical act of murder.

Nobody has “ complete love” for God nor his neighbor .....If that is the Standard in becoming “ fit for Heaven”, there ain’t NOBODY gonna make it there.....Frankly, what is needed is a “ Loop- Hole”..... I got mine....It’s Resting in the Gospel Of Grace .....you can find it in 1Cor15:1-4...... its for all sane men and women who do not measure up to God’s Standard ( perfection ) and know it and admit it.....

All those relying on their Performance ( like how well they do when trying to Love God with *ALL* their heart, soul and mind or pretending that they can REALLY Love their neighbors
as much as they love themselves ) are going to be the ones saying , “ we did this and we did that !”, completely ignoring what JESUS did, ( He did it ALL, btw) and they will be the ones hearing” depart from me, I Never Knew You”.....

Men like me who “fall short” every hour of every day and know it and admit it and cling to the Grace Of God granted to us simply because we Believed the Gospel —— what are we going to hear when the Accuser brings up all of our sins before God? We will hear God say, “ What sins? I seem to have “ Forgotten them!”

God made a Promise to all men that would Trust Him and Him Alone for their Salvation —- “ Their Sins I will REMEMBER NO MORE!”.........I’m just a big enough fool to actually believe God will Keep His Word.....THAT is what Faith is.....you got any?

You actually don't believe God or keep His word as you claim, because biblical faith includes obeying God. Read Heb. 11 and you can clearly see people whose actions reflected the faith they had in God. To a lot of "Christians", faith is nothing more than an intellectual exercise, which makes their faith dead(Jas 2). Let's compare your claim against Christ's own words concerning salvation in Matthew and let's see who should be believed:

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" - Matt. 7:21-23

“For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matt. 5:20

"Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” - Matt. 19:17

When somebody slanders others about trying to rely on their performance because they believe a Christian is supposed to obey God, it only exposes the fact that they aren't practicing biblical Christianity and have no understanding of what salvation actually is. Paul was emphatically clear in his letters that God's grace does not replace the Christian duty to obey God's commandments, especially in the middle part of Rom. 6 where he really goes in depth about how a Christian is supposed to be as zealous about obeying God after conversion as they were sinning against God before conversion. Paul certainly didn't teach the "come as you are, stay as you are" brand of Christianity that's popular with religious people today.

If a person isn't imitating Christ's example in their day to day living, then that person isn't a Christian. That is the plain bible truth, no matter how uncomfortable it is for people teaching the lie that no obedience is necessary. Contrary to what the hyper grace people want to believe, Christ didn't obey God so no one else would have to. He did it to be a template for what God expected from future followers:

“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;" - Matt. 28:19-20

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Actually, it is you who need work. Loving one's neighbor means obeying the last 6 commandments in the letter and spirit. It goes far beyond just refraining from the physical act of murder.

you need to read everything in context before offering commentary not relative to the discussion

 

[Truth7t7]

When Paul speaks about running the race to obtain the Prize, is he talking about the Prize of Salvation, or a prize which is a reward for deeds?

See 1 Cor. 9:24-27. "The prize" being here identified Is a "crown" and is not Salvation. A crown is a reward.

See Phil. 3:12-13 where Paul says he has "not obtained the prize." Is that supposed to mean he has not obtained Salvation? No. It means he has not obtained the reward for Godly service.

People constantly in error confuse Salvation with Discipleship. These people are known as Lordship preachers and Calvinists. We can pray for and help them.

James 2:15-18KJV
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

 

[Tong2020]

Actually, it is you who need work. Loving one's neighbor means obeying the last 6 commandments in the letter and spirit. It goes far beyond just refraining from the physical act of murder.
You actually don't believe God or keep His word as you claim, because biblical faith includes obeying God. Read Heb. 11 and you can clearly see people whose actions reflected the faith they had in God. To a lot of "Christians", faith is nothing more than an intellectual exercise, which makes their faith dead(Jas 2). Let's compare your claim against Christ's own words concerning salvation in Matthew and let's see who should be believed:

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" - Matt. 7:21-23

“For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matt. 5:20

"Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” - Matt. 19:17

When somebody slanders others about trying to rely on their performance because they believe a Christian is supposed to obey God, it only exposes the fact that they aren't practicing biblical Christianity and have no understanding of what salvation actually is. Paul was emphatically clear in his letters that God's grace does not replace the Christian duty to obey God's commandments, especially in the middle part of Rom. 6 where he really goes in depth about how a Christian is supposed to be as zealous about obeying God after conversion as they were sinning against God before conversion. Paul certainly didn't teach the "come as you are, stay as you are" brand of Christianity that's popular with religious people today.

If a person isn't imitating Christ's example in their day to day living, then that person isn't a Christian. That is the plain bible truth, no matter how uncomfortable it is for people teaching the lie that no obedience is necessary. Contrary to what the hyper grace people want to believe, Christ didn't obey God so no one else would have to. He did it to be a template for what God expected from future followers:

“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;" - Matt. 28:19-20

Loving God with all your heart, mind and soul, and neighbor as yourself, is what the saved Christians ought to do. But not to be saved, for they are already saved by God.

Tong
R4107

 

[farouk]

Romans 8 is the answer to the question of this thread...

 

[Psalm51]

In my humble opinion, it is impossible to keep oneself sinless. "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, But the LORD weighs the hearts" (Proverbs 21:2). I believe what is important is to repent from the heart and have faith in the Lord.

 

[Tong2020]

Jesus Christ, the Lord and the Savior, is Him who keeps the saved, saved.

Tong
R4108

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Well, that does not take away the truth of what Jesus said, that is, “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”

As I already pointed out, Loving God with all your heart, mind and soul, and neighbor as yourself, is what the saved ought to do. But not to be saved, for they are already saved by God.

If one is truly believes, that is another matter. And it is not in any way, shape or form, a matter of saving oneself, but perhaps a matter of first, proving to oneself that he truly believes and is saved. And second, a testimony to others that Jesus Christ is in him and is saved.

What ever you wish to believe is your choice, but I disagree with you, people who don't love God and their fellow man, especially those who they say are their spiritual brothers and sisters are not saved no matter how much they say they are. Just because a person gets himself/herself baptized and say they're Christians doesn't mean they necessarily are. Love is what unites True Christians and the love true Christians are suppose to have, I don't see among the Catholic and protestant church's

Jesus Christ is Him who unites His people. If one is in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is in him, he is a member of the body of Christ and is united with the others and all are united in and by Christ. There is neither Gentile nor Jew. So I’d say there is neither Catholic nor protestants, if we are talking about the body of Christ. “Catholic”, “Protestant” are but names that a congregation of people call themselves. The seal of the people of God, that is, those who are in Christ Jesus and in whom Christ Jesus is in, is not in the name of their congregation, but in the Spirit, the Spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit. Now, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control ~ truth and holiness.

Tong
R4109

 

[Cooper]

When Paul speaks about running the race to obtain the Prize, is he talking about the Prize of Salvation, or a prize which is a reward for deeds?

See 1 Cor. 9:24-27. "The prize" being here identified Is a "crown" and is not Salvation. A crown is a reward.

See Phil. 3:12-13 where Paul says he has "not obtained the prize." Is that supposed to mean he has not obtained Salvation? No. It means he has not obtained the reward for Godly service.

People constantly in error confuse Salvation with Discipleship. These people are known as Lordship preachers and Calvinists. We can pray for and help them.

Where is the work in NOT robbing someone?

Where is the work in walking the narrow path?

Where is the work in accepting God's gift of free salvation?

Nor do I see giving someone my cast off clothing, for example, as work.

The prize comes not in this life, but after a lifetime of following Jesus when we shall be blessed with a crown of heavens glory.

Or do I misunderstand the point you are making? (I sometimes think the Americans have a different language or mind-set to the Brits.)
.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Jesus Christ is Him who unites His people. If one is in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is in him, he is a member of the body of Christ and is united with the others and all are united in and by Christ. There is neither Gentile nor Jew. So I’d say there is neither Catholic nor protestants, if we are talking about the body of Christ. “Catholic”, “Protestant” are but names that a congregation of people call themselves. The seal of the people of God, that is, those who are in Christ Jesus and in whom Christ Jesus is in, is not in the name of their congregation, but in the Spirit, the Spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit. Now, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control ~ truth and holiness.

Tong
R4109

Those who truly are in Jesus and Jesus in them, who are the body of Christ, have love among themselves. Having love among themselves is how you know a person/person's are truly in Jesus and Jesus in them, who are truly the body of Christ. Jesus Christ said at John 13:35- By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” I don't see that love among themselves in those religions that call themselves protestant and Catholics. In fact I don't see this kind of love among anyone except the JW.
When you mentioned the fruit of the Holy Spirit it is with good reason Paul listed love first. Is love greater than joy, the next quality he mentions? Yes, it is, for there can be no enduring joy without love. In fact, the world is so joyless because of selfishness, the lack of love. But true Christians have love among themselves, and they have love for their heavenly Father. So we should expect them to be joyful, and it was foretold that they would cry out joyfully because of the good condition of the heart at Isaiah 65:14.
Love is also greater than the spirit’s fruit of peace. Because of the lack of love, the world is filled with friction and strife. But true Christians are at peace with one another throughout the earth. True in their case are the psalmist’s words at Psalms 29:11- “Jehovah himself will bless his people with peace.” They have this peace because they have the identifying mark of true Christians, namely, love. John 13:35 Love alone can overcome all divisive factors, be they racial, national, or cultural. It is “a perfect bond of union.” Colossians 3:14
Love’s superlative role is also seen when compared with long-suffering, the patient endurance of wrong or provocation. To be long-suffering means to be patient as well as slow to anger. What causes people to be impatient and quick to become angry? Is it not a lack of love? However, our heavenly Father is long-suffering and “slow to anger.” Exodus 34:6; Luke 18:7. Why? Because he loves us and “does not desire any to be destroyed.” 2 Peter 3:9.
Love is greater than faith, Yes, if our efforts to acquire knowledge and grow in faith were to be undertaken for a selfish purpose, this would bring us no benefit from God.
The reasons given for this at 1 Corinthians 13:1-7 apply to the remaining fruits of the spirit, that is, kindness, goodness, mildness, and self-control. All of these are necessary qualities, but they will not benefit us without love, just as God inspired Paul to write. It is love that brings forth such qualities as kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, and self-control. Thus, Paul went on to say that love is kind and that “it bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” Yes, and “love never fails.” Well has it been observed that the other fruits of the spirit are manifestations, or various aspects, of love, the one mentioned first. Truly, it follows that of all nine fruits of the spirit, love is indeed the greatest.
Supporting the conclusion that love is the greatest of the fruits of God’s spirit are Paul’s words at Romans 13:8-10 “Do not you people be owing anybody a single thing, except to love one another; for he that loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. For the law code . . . is summed up in this word, namely, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does not work evil to one’s neighbor; therefore love is the law’s fulfillment.” Most fittingly, the disciple James refers to this law of loving one’s neighbor as oneself as “the kingly law.”James 2:8.

 

[Tong2020]

Those who truly are in Jesus and Jesus in them, who are the body of Christ, have love among themselves. Having love among themselves is how you know a person/person's are truly in Jesus and Jesus in them, who are truly the body of Christ. Jesus Christ said at John 13:35- By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” I don't see that love among themselves in those religions that call themselves protestant and Catholics. In fact I don't see this kind of love among anyone except the JW.

Perhaps you could say that, at least based on your experience and social interactions. And in my side of that, I experience such love among my brethren in Christ.

When you mentioned the fruit of the Holy Spirit it is with good reason Paul listed love first. Is love greater than joy, the next quality he mentions? Yes, it is, for there can be no enduring joy without love. In fact, the world is so joyless because of selfishness, the lack of love. But true Christians have love among themselves, and they have love for their heavenly Father. So we should expect them to be joyful, and it was foretold that they would cry out joyfully because of the good condition of the heart at Isaiah 65:14.
Love is also greater than the spirit’s fruit of peace. Because of the lack of love, the world is filled with friction and strife. But true Christians are at peace with one another throughout the earth. True in their case are the psalmist’s words at Psalms 29:11- “Jehovah himself will bless his people with peace.” They have this peace because they have the identifying mark of true Christians, namely, love. John 13:35 Love alone can overcome all divisive factors, be they racial, national, or cultural. It is “a perfect bond of union.” Colossians 3:14
Love’s superlative role is also seen when compared with long-suffering, the patient endurance of wrong or provocation. To be long-suffering means to be patient as well as slow to anger. What causes people to be impatient and quick to become angry? Is it not a lack of love? However, our heavenly Father is long-suffering and “slow to anger.” Exodus 34:6; Luke 18:7. Why? Because he loves us and “does not desire any to be destroyed.” 2 Peter 3:9.
Love is greater than faith, Yes, if our efforts to acquire knowledge and grow in faith were to be undertaken for a selfish purpose, this would bring us no benefit from God.
The reasons given for this at 1 Corinthians 13:1-7 apply to the remaining fruits of the spirit, that is, kindness, goodness, mildness, and self-control. All of these are necessary qualities, but they will not benefit us without love, just as God inspired Paul to write. It is love that brings forth such qualities as kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, and self-control. Thus, Paul went on to say that love is kind and that “it bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” Yes, and “love never fails.” Well has it been observed that the other fruits of the spirit are manifestations, or various aspects, of love, the one mentioned first. Truly, it follows that of all nine fruits of the spirit, love is indeed the greatest.
Supporting the conclusion that love is the greatest of the fruits of God’s spirit are Paul’s words at Romans 13:8-10 “Do not you people be owing anybody a single thing, except to love one another; for he that loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. For the law code . . . is summed up in this word, namely, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does not work evil to one’s neighbor; therefore love is the law’s fulfillment.” Most fittingly, the disciple James refers to this law of loving one’s neighbor as oneself as “the kingly law.”James 2:8.

There is no issue with regards as to what love is.

My argument is that it is Jesus Christ who unites His people.

Tong
R4110