Preacher, you're completely missing my point and I'm not making accusations. Rather, I was giving an illustrative example of a group I find to have beliefs extremely contrary to scriptural teaching, but I still acknowledge them as Christians because of their devotion to Christ. Seriously erroneous theology, but the foundation is that relationship with Christ.
My Lord And Savior Is Not A "SISSIFIED NEEDY JESUS", But HE is a GOD of WRATH!!
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Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately Willie is expert at sowing discord to garner brownie points. His penchant to deny we can know truth is absurd buffoonery, and of convenience.
I am trying to answer this without devolving this conversation even further into a Calvinist bashing session too.
Suffice it to say, I find that Calvism completely redefines what is even meant by "love", and don't teach of a God whom loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
But again, I still acknowledge a Calvinist person's saving relationship with Christ, because it's that love that's the key, not passing scantron theology test.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Jane,
If you could show it biblically we would gladly welcome such correction. You are making claims but not showing it. Many groups claim they trust, Jesus. The question becomes which Jesus? Which gospel?
That is why we suspect you are not answering as we will discover there are two different authorities being employed. The bible alone, or the bible plus the book of Mormon, plus doctrine and Covenants.
God's Gospel taught in all of His words spoken past, present and future. He is the King, the Lord of Lords. He is the foundation.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Originally Willie would offer some scripture and interact biblically. It shifted to drive-by posts, and innuendo being offered. No discussion, no correction offered???
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Correct, she did not do this, and you're being factual. Perhaps @Jane_Doe22 will finally see, by Gods grace the things she says are not true. I have to admit I'm amazed she cannot see the things she says are baseless and untrue. As Ephesians says they have their understanding darkened. She lies against evidence of her documented teachings and claims her own sects official teachings are not true. She refuses to answer questions. She refuses to describe Christ and his attributes claiming they are not important. She has much to hide while we've been out in the open and honest as per 2 Corinthians 4:2.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Jane_Doe22,
Jane...a safe post, generic, but not getting to the issues being discussed. It could be you are not ready to work on these issues. That will come in time if you continue to study and examine where you stated beliefs are challenged.
Jane...a safe post, generic, but not getting to the issues being discussed. It could be you are not ready to work on these issues. That will come in time if you continue to study and examine where you stated beliefs are challenged.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Nope, not even close. You've made baseless unfounded accusations. Not one example, fact, or proof. That's a fact.
By the way we (they) do not depend on your acknowledgement of us as Christians.
To the contrary, we've shown by your documented teachings you are not Christian and your Christ is not the Christ of Scripture. Again, we've done this with documented facts from your official teachings. It's most remarkable watching you deny all this when we've presented it right from the source! You're so disingenuous it's sad to watch. You'll do it day after day showing and proving you're not of the truth nor are you for truth.
All you've done is dodge, deflect, attempt flattery and avoid facts.
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Enough. I'm very tired of your continual flaming.
If you wish to continue ANY conversation with me: 1) cease the flaming, and 2) you can actually respond to my post about Christ that's I'm put here three times for you (see below). If you just want to continue with the toxic, hateful, and un-Christian behavior, I will place you on ignore. I am not here to be abused by people, especially those claiming Christ.
As whom Jesus Christ is: He is the only Begotten Son of God. He is everlasting: without beginning or end. He created this world, was born to a virgin and lived a humble life. He taught His gospel, living perfectly every second. And for that people -- even His own -- rejected Him, tortured and crucified. On the third day He rose from the tomb, taught His disciples more, and ascended into Heaven. He is ONE with the Father, and the Spirit. They're three different persons, but all one God. If you want me to provide any furthers sources on this I can. Post 101-103 already are a bunch of verses talking about His divine Sonship.
Now who he is to me personally: He is my personal Savior. I devote every day to Him, striving to walk in His ways. My first major memory of this was when I was ~5 years old, realize how He alone understood my troubles, and He was my Savior. Both from sin, but also... He's my best friend. My foundation, my pillar, my sanity. Without Him I would literally not be alive physically or spiritually.
Now, if you want me to go and address some of Martian's claims that I don't actually believe, I can, though I don't consider it productive. It's much more efficient to talk about what is rather than constant "no, that's not is, that's not is, etc".
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@Anthony D'Arienzo , if you say you want to get away from generics, here's a bunch of specific points I've brought up to talk about:
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Right. To her he is a created being brought forth by literal intercourse of a human God they call "Heavenly Father" with Mary, and that Christ is non-eternal, not YHWH, and the brother of Satan. These are the official teachings of Mormonism that she will in fact deny on here, yet she believes them.
By the way, the founder of this cult Joseph Smith taught that unless they have a polygamous marriage they will not be eternally saved. That and God is nothing more than a glorified human being which they expect to be as well, believing in their leader Joseph Smith who taught them these things.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Do you believe this Jane?
CHAPTER 4
(JUNE–OCTOBER 1830)
How Satan became the devil—He tempts Eve—Adam and Eve fall, and death enters the world.
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That
Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the cbeginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I
will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved on, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became
Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.
CHAPTER 4
(JUNE–OCTOBER 1830)
How Satan became the devil—He tempts Eve—Adam and Eve fall, and death enters the world.
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That
Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the cbeginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I
will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved on, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became
Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.
Except none of that is factual. Just Decker spinning falsehoods.
And frankly, I'm sick of your flaming. Cling to Decker all you want. I'm going to keep rejoicing with my Savior.
I am reminded of:By their works shall ye know them (and also by their hateful words)
This is the first time I've felt the urge to troll back over these posts and built up a batch of 'ignore' members (and it won't include JW's or Mormons).
Matthew 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Is proper theology of Lucifer's rebellion in your prerequisites for salvation?
If not, I'm going politely refocus the conversation on Christ and salvation. I'm very done with red harings, flaming, and people trying to put things of lesser importance before the topic of God Himself. I also would like the questions I asked you on that subject pages ago now answered.
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You really ought to try to get it right. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believes that all spirits created by the Father are brothers.
You re correct about how LDS Christians don't believe that there's any special relationship between Christ and Lucifer that doesn't apply to every other person -- namely that the Father was/is the Father of all. Christ was/is special because HE alone is is the Only Begotten, the Savior, and the one to always follow the Father's will perfectly.
An important clarification here: "created" is not defined as people with Greek pohiliosphy backgrounds (ex-nihilio) who define it. Rather LDS Christians believe all folks always existed.
I do have to say that I am not trying to defend any of LDS theology... just a person's right to believe it if they want to. All I think we have any liberty to do is state what we think is correct belief... PERIOD.
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