Nation born in a day in 1948?

[dad]

What I find intriguing about Israel is the obstinance of its Jews. All the history written where it appears they are hated, enslaved, exterminated, and then rescued time and again by God's providence.
And still, they deny the Messiah has come.
They just don't get it.

That is why God knows they need that last seven years to go through some heavy things so that they will finally come to repent.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

In the sense that He allows nations to come up and knew Israel would be a country in the end, etc..sure. As far as God Himself bringing a saved remnant back to the land after destroying all their enemies, and being their King, no. Not yet.

Just what I said

That time did not come in 1948, sorry. That time comes when all Israel gets saved and believes in Jesus. Not before. Until then, they remain blind. It is not hate to face the truth that all must believe in Jesus to be saved, including Israel, of course. To call that hate is ignorant

I never said it did.

No bible supports that. So why would I assume God wanted terrorists, for example to blow up a hotel, and etc etc to form a secular nation? Yes He knew about what would happen. I can't blame Him. You do realize that the saved Palestinians are His people also? When God destroys their enemies He will not be destroying one single believer!

All bibles do. You just have to accept the words as they are written.

Why would God tell Israel to destroy an entire nation and not even spare the infants? Now you are telling God what He can and cannot do based on your feelings and not what the word of God says.

Well, when God brings them back they will not ever flee anywhere again. That was not 1948.

That is wrong. Matt. 24 shows t

hat Israel in the land will have to flee again!

Matt. 24:

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The commentary I posted places that as history not prophesy of the end.

Well that is but commentary- but sahow when this was fulfilled as written and not just kind of if it is history!

It is not made up that when God comes back and rules, that Israel will then be saved. Yes, the self gathered secular Jews of today must face judgment. They have been in rebellion a lot longer than 73 years!

And that was all prophesied!

So to you God would not deal with you at all if you are in rebellion? Let me tell you aboutethe God of th eBible who is filled with mercy and grace!

 

[Davy]

Paul was talking about how all can get saved, and that includes Jews.
Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
That time did not come in 1948, sorry. That time comes when all Israel gets saved and believes in Jesus. Not before. Until then, they remain blind. It is not hate to face the truth that all must believe in Jesus to be saved, including Israel, of course. To call that hate is ignorant.

I never said Paul's "fulness of the Gentiles" event came to pass in 1948; it won't happen until the day of Christ's return, which is when the blinded Jews will mourn for Him like a long lost son, per the end of Zechariah 12. So are you now trying to drum up some excuse for the falseness you have believed with that false association?

 

[dad]

I never said it did.

What are you trying to say then?

All bibles do. You just have to accept the words as they are written.

Too bad you failed to post a verse that does then.

Why would God tell Israel to destroy an entire nation and not even spare the infants? Now you are telling God what He can and cannot do based on your feelings and not what the word of God says.

False. God directing Israel in the past to do what was needed does not mean that He gathered them in 1948.

That is wrong. Matt. 24 shows t

hat Israel in the land will have to flee again!

False. Not after they repent. The 'ye' here is believers, not a secular nation if there were still one. Lots of believers flee, that does not mean God has gathered Israel by then in peace and is ruling. If you notice the SC is till ruling here.

Well that is but commentary- but sahow when this was fulfilled as written and not just kind of if it is history!

I have no reason to doubt it was. Certainly I do not see this placed in the end time in the reading of it either.

And that was all prophesied!

I agree, that the self gathering of Israel as a nation in the end was prophesied. That is not an issue. The topic is about whether God gathered them already in 1948. Not whether they gathered somehow. When God gathers them He will be here ruling, and they will not have any enemies anywhere.

So to you God would not deal with you at all if you are in rebellion?

No one said that. The way He deals with the unsaved is to try to get them saved. He deals with Israel in that last several years by chastening them till they say uncle.

Let me tell you aboutethe God of th eBible who is filled with mercy and grace!

His judgments are better than gold, and are for our good. They are to be greatly desired and valued. His mercy was to die for us so we could be saved. (not saving us either way)

 

[dad]

I never said Paul's "fulness of the Gentiles" event came to pass in 1948; it won't happen until the day of Christ's return, which is when the blinded Jews will mourn for Him like a long lost son, per the end of Zechariah 12. So are you now trying to drum up some excuse for the falseness you have believed with that false association?

Then so what? Why mention something that has no bearing on the conversation or topic? Why did you mention the blindness thing exactly?

 

[Wrangler]

False. God directing Israel in the past to do what was needed does not mean that He gathered them in 1948.

So, in your view, the gathering of Israel in a day only coincides with Scripture.

 

[dad]

So, in your view, the gathering of Israel in a day only coincides with Scripture.

No. The gathering of a saved Israel by God is clearly prophesied. The nation that gets attacked in the end is not prophesied to have been gathered by God to get there, that I can see in Scripture. Eze 38 talks to enemies of Israel, and tells of the invasion. That does not mean God brought them there. That verse about a nation in a day was not talking about 1948.
Isaiah 66:8
Who has ever heard of such things? Who has ever seen things like this? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children.
Isaiah 66:9
Do I bring to the moment of birth and not give delivery?" says the Lord . "Do I close up the womb when I bring to delivery?" says your God.
Isaiah 66:10
"Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her, all you who love her; rejoice greatly with her, all you who mourn over her.
Isaiah 66:11
For you will nurse and be satisfied at her comforting breasts; you will drink deeply and delight in her overflowing abundance."
Isaiah 66:12
For this is what the Lord says: "I will extend peace to her like a river, and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream; you will nurse and be carried on her arm and dandled on her knees.
Isaiah 66:13
As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you; and you will be comforted over Jerusalem."
Isaiah 66:14
When you see this, your heart will rejoice and you will flourish like grass; the hand of the Lord will be made known to his servants, but his fury will be shown to his foes.

That is future.

 

[Davy]

Then so what? Why mention something that has no bearing on the conversation or topic? Why did you mention the blindness thing exactly?

Are you having some kind of problem reading what I wrote? Or are you even taking time to read what I wrote? You appear to want to make arguments out in left field, and when I'm the one staying on topic, you get angry???

YOU are the one who brought up the 'fulness of Gentiles' idea from Romans 11 by Apostle Paul, when I clearly addressed Paul's topic of the Jew's being blinded for this present time until Jesus comes, but yet all Israel being saved in final like Paul said. You just skipped... those Romans 11 points I covered by Apostle Paul, which was the TOPIC.

 

[dad]

Are you having some kind of problem reading what I wrote? Or are you even taking time to read what I wrote? You appear to want to make arguments out in left field, and when I'm the one staying on topic, you get angry???

YOU are the one who brought up the 'fulness of Gentiles' idea from Romans 11 by Apostle Paul, when I clearly addressed Paul's topic of the Jew's being blinded for this present time until Jesus comes, but yet all Israel being saved in final like Paul said. You just skipped... those Romans 11 points I covered by Apostle Paul, which was the TOPIC.

There seems to be some sort of crossed wire here. Apparently you think there is something in Rom 11 that relates to 1948? Spell it out.

 

[Davy]

There seems to be some sort of crossed wire here. Apparently you think there is something in Rom 11 that relates to 1948? Spell it out.

Now you even refuse to admit your error. I never associated 1948 with the time of Paul's all Israel being saved, you did.

1948 is when the Jeremiah 24 Scripture about God's promise to bring Judah, the good basket of figs, back to the holy land, and not pluck them up again, was fullfilled. THAT... is what was fulfilled per history when the Jews started returning back to their homeland, and eventually in 1948 became a nation again. That fulfilled that Jeremiah 24 prophecy.

But you... are the one who TRIED (in vain) to establish that I said 1948 as being the time when Jesus returns and the Jews have their blindness removed, by the idea of their being saved. I never said that idiotic idea, that was your idea. I even made the clear statement to you in one of my posts that the blindness of Romans 11 will remain upon the unbelieving Jews until Jesus returns in the future.

 

[dad]

Now you even refuse to admit your error. I never associated 1948 with the time of Paul's all Israel being saved, you did.

Try being clear. The thread is about claims Israel was gathered. You offer a verse, I assume it should relate somehow.

1948 is when the Jeremiah 24 Scripture about God's promise to bring Judah, the good basket of figs, back to the holy land, and not pluck them up again, was fullfilled. THAT... is what was fulfilled per history when the Jews started returning back to their homeland, and eventually in 1948 became a nation again. That fulfilled that Jeremiah 24 prophecy.

OK, so you want to claim that is about the endtime. That is pure opinion that is opposed to the commentaries I see.
Example
"
The people left behind in Jerusalem thought that they had God’s approval, because they were still in their homeland, whereas the others had been punished with shameful exile. Jeremiah points out that this is not so. Those taken captive are the ‘good figs’. The shock of the captivity will awaken many of them to see their sin, repent of it and return to the Lord. God will then bring them back into their land, where they will enjoy a new and living relationship with him (4-7).
Those who remain in Jerusalem are the ‘bad figs’. They continue in their evil ways and think that by relying on Egypt they will escape the power of the Babylonians. Jeremiah tells them that, far from escaping, they will come to the most humiliating and horrible end (8-10)."

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/bbc/jeremiah-24.html
I see no phrases or indications in that chapter that it refers to the latter days. Gong!

But you... are the one who TRIED (in vain) to establish that I said 1948 as being the time when Jesus returns

Not true.

and the Jews have their blindness removed, by the idea of their being saved. I never said that idiotic idea, that was your idea. I even made the clear statement to you in one of my posts that the blindness of Romans 11 will remain upon the unbelieving Jews until Jesus returns in the future.

OK, so now you disavow rom 11 as having anything to do with the topic. OK. Not a great batting average so far.

 

[Pythagorean12]

That is why God knows they need that last seven years to go through some heavy things so that they will finally come to repent.

Optimistic isn't he?

 

[dad]

Optimistic isn't he?

Hey, I'm still trying to figure out his actual position so far! :)

 

[Pythagorean12]

Hey, I'm still trying to figure out his actual position so far! :)

:) Aren't we all?
Though I think certain key phrases and passages in his word lend a pretty good clue.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What are you trying to say then?

1.That God is regathering the people of Israel from th enations where they were scattered.
2. the regathering is in anger and with fury and judgment in mind.
3. He will judge the nation (people), rid them of the rebels (2/3 of all Jews die in the tribulation)
4. The remaining Jews that survive will accept Jesus as messiah.
5. When He returns they will inherit the promised land in peace and Jerusalem will be the center of the earth.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There seems to be some sort of crossed wire here. Apparently you think there is something in Rom 11 that relates to 1948? Spell it out.

I do not. Are you addressing this to me?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Too bad you failed to post a verse that does then.

I have you just pooh-poohed them off. Claimed one was historical and yet failed to show when in history that prophecy was fulfilled.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I agree, that the self gathering of Israel as a nation in the end was prophesied. That is not an issue. The topic is about whether God gathered them already in 1948. Not whether they gathered somehow. When God gathers them He will be here ruling, and they will not have any enemies anywhere.

So God is a disinterested party to Israels regathering in 1948 to you?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

False. Not after they repent. The 'ye' here is believers, not a secular nation if there were still one. Lots of believers flee, that does not mean God has gathered Israel by then in peace and is ruling. If you notice the SC is till ruling here.

I think you meant AC for antichrist. And no god has not gathered Israel in peace yet. That occurs at the end of the tribulation and before th emillenial kingdom commences.

But to give you afew more verses about God gathering Israel back and judges them prior to the tribulationa nd also th etribulation is a main point in breaking the will of Israel to accept jesus.

Ez. 20:33-38 You say this is history- now sho w the dates that fulfill this- not just a kind of close thing.
Ez. 22:17-22 This couldn't have happened yet- Israel doesn't know yet Yahweh has poured out his wrath on them.
Ez. 36:22-24 The regathering from the nations where Jews profaned His name is taking place.
Is, 11:11-12 You say this is not taking place, yet is happening before our eyes.
Zeph 2:1-2 trhere is a time when Jehovah's anger comes on Israel (the 70th week) they have to gather before then or continue till thyen.

So there is a regathering in unbelief for Gods anger to pour out on them, and a regathering for the saved to be gathered and inherit the promised land after Jesus returns.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No one said that. The way He deals with the unsaved is to try to get them saved. He deals with Israel in that last several years by chastening them till they say uncle.

As a nation yes! but they have to get to eh land in order for God to chastise them in the land. That is what is taking place place now!