Nazis, foreshadowing the Christian Holocaust, by the Antichrist.

[James Macbeth]

Not one Pope, no. The entire succession of Popes from the 6th century on which head the institution. It is the institution that is the Antichrist, not the Popes, not the people within that institution, but the institution itself. The Popes are but spokesmen. They are the mouthpiece of the little horn speaking great things, declaring themselves God by pretending to forgive sin, and be the sole means through which men may be saved. Oh look, another criteria, and both replace Jesus.

And where was the Church before the 6th century?

 

[James Macbeth]

Or was it Stalin and the Communists?

Nazis.

 

[James Macbeth]

‘ It’s probably fake ‘ …….and you believe that just because some scholars question it.
I may not understand all it’s symbolic references, but as far as I am concerned it is one of the most important books of hope within scripture. It reveals who is sovereign within the world and who ultimately holds the power and knowledge of all things…. It also reveals the ultimate victory.

I think it is very unwise to state ‘ it’s probably fake ‘ on a forum that values all scripture. That believes that scripture is the inspired word of God ………..
I find that so odd, you open a thread about the mark of the beast that is mentioned in revelation, you conclude how events will unfold, which is what revelation does but then choose to second guess the whole book of relevation itself and claim it’s probably not true!
You also take things literal , like wearing the cross as meaning ‘ carry your cross ‘ ……….
I understand scripture from what is laid on my heart through the Holy Spirit, which includes trusting that the book of revelation is inspired. You seem to base things on what your church does and what scholars have concluded …….

Hope is not in the Book of Revelations.

It's in the our Father (the Lord's prayer).

 

[JohnPaul]

Nazis.

So the communists weren’t evil?

 

[James Macbeth]

So the communists weren’t evil?

Who said that?
Nazis are infamous.

 

[James Macbeth]

Still looking for that word "antichrist".

The beast is the Antichrist.
Church Fathers taught this before the 6th century.
And they taught that he would be a Jew.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Antichrist Will be a Specific Man.

Now I come to the Scriptures whereby it is proved that the seat of the Antichrist is going to be in Jerusalem, not Rome.

Revelations 11:8, where John says that Enoch & Elijah are going to fight with Antichrist in Jerusalem, and must be killed there by the same Antichrist: ‘And they will throw their bodies in the streets of the great city, which is spiritually called Sodom, and Egypt, where even their Lord was crucified.’

Arethas in this citation says: ‘Their bodies he will cast out unburied in the streets of Jerusalem, for in it he will reign as King of the Jews.’
Likewise, all other interpreters show, and this can be rightly said to be Jerusalem, and it cannot be denied.

For what City is it in which the Lord was crucified but Jerusalem?

I do agree with you that there will be a literal Antichrist in the future. But I also agree with the Reformers, like Luther, who felt that Rome was an Antichrist in some ways. I was raised a Lutheran and had been taught that the RCC had become corrupt and had begun to deceive reformers into having discussions, and then burned them at the stake. That kind of deceit does not speak well of the Pope in Luther's time.

I'm not saying I believe the Catholic Church is no longer Christian. I'm just saying that there is an aspect to the RCC that I think is arrogant and corrupt. The Catholic Church has long believed that it should be the head over all the Church, a kind of monopoly on Christianity. Organizational monopoly is not the kind of spiritual unity Christ called the Church to! But I'm not prepared to call the Catholic Church an Antichrist today. I think it has been an Antichrist only at times in history when it had been led badly and has acted inappropriately.

As for the passages in Revelation suggested the Antichrist puts to death the "2 Witnesses," I agree that it is likely speaking of Jerusalem. But the entirety of chapter 17 suggests that the base of Antichrist's Empire will be in Roman Civilization, also known as "European Civilization." And in the end he apparently burns the city of Rome itself! He doesn't like any kind of Christianity, no matter how corrupt.

I know these are difficult words. But I think we need to lay out there how we've been led to believe and what we believe now so it can be discussed, if wanted?

 

[Brakelite]

And where was the Church before the 6th century?

Everywhere.
The church in Rome in the early centuries was just one among many throughout Europe, Asia, Africa, and the east. It was the greedy power hungry prelates who took control of the civil power in the absence of the emperors... Having adulterous relations with the kings of the earth... That accelerated an apostasy that had begun even in the time of the apostles.

 

[Rita]

Hope is not in the Book of Revelations.

It's in the our Father (the Lord's prayer).

If you see no hope in the book of revelation then I suggest you ask the Lord to open your eyes.

 

[JohnPaul]

Who said that?
Nazis are infamous.

Who lasted the longest Nazis or Communists? Both are evil yes, but the most dangerous I would say communism as it’s still going on today, where the Reich is no more.

 

[James Macbeth]

If you see no hope in the book of revelation then I suggest you ask the Lord to open your eyes.

But in terms of weight, which one is higher?
The Lord's prayer or the book of Revelations?

 

[James Macbeth]

Everywhere.
The church in Rome in the early centuries was just one among many throughout Europe, Asia, Africa, and the east. It was the greedy power hungry prelates who took control of the civil power in the absence of the emperors... Having adulterous relations with the kings of the earth... That accelerated an apostasy that had begun even in the time of the apostles.

So you deny that Peter was the Prime Apostle?

 

[James Macbeth]

I do agree with you that there will be a literal Antichrist in the future. But I also agree with the Reformers, like Luther, who felt that Rome was an Antichrist in some ways. I was raised a Lutheran and had been taught that the RCC had become corrupt and had begun to deceive reformers into having discussions, and then burned them at the stake. That kind of deceit does not speak well of the Pope in Luther's time.

I'm not saying I believe the Catholic Church is no longer Christian. I'm just saying that there is an aspect to the RCC that I think is arrogant and corrupt. The Catholic Church has long believed that it should be the head over all the Church, a kind of monopoly on Christianity. Organizational monopoly is not the kind of spiritual unity Christ called the Church to! But I'm not prepared to call the Catholic Church an Antichrist today. I think it has been an Antichrist only at times in history when it had been led badly and has acted inappropriately.

As for the passages in Revelation suggested the Antichrist puts to death the "2 Witnesses," I agree that it is likely speaking of Jerusalem. But the entirety of chapter 17 suggests that the base of Antichrist's Empire will be in Roman Civilization, also known as "European Civilization." And in the end he apparently burns the city of Rome itself! He doesn't like any kind of Christianity, no matter how corrupt.

I know these are difficult words. But I think we need to lay out there how we've been led to believe and what we believe now so it can be discussed, if wanted?

So only Catholics were burning people?
The Protestants never drew first blood?

Did Calvin not burn Michael Servetus?

And did the Lutherans not burn the Anabaptist?

 

[Brakelite]

So you deny that Peter was the Prime Apostle?

I don't know if he was prime he or not. If he was, and others recognized this, they were disobeying the will of Christ when He said...
KJV Luke 22:25-27
25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

 

[covenantee]

The beast is the Antichrist.
Church Fathers taught this before the 6th century.
And they taught that he would be a Jew.

The antichrist was the apostasized papacy.

The Reformers recognized and declared this beginning with John Wycliffe.

 

[Marty fox]

Are you a follower of Ellen G Witch?

I have no idea who that is I follow what John said about the antichrist in his epistles

 

[Brakelite]

The beast is the Antichrist.

Which beast?

 

[JohnPaul]

Who lasted the longest Nazis or Communists? Both are evil yes, but the most dangerous I would say communism as it’s still going on today, where the Reich is no more.

@James Macbeth no answer?

 

[covenantee]

So only Catholics were burning people?
The Protestants never drew first blood?

Did Calvin not burn Michael Servetus?

And did the Lutherans not burn the Anabaptist?

50 million.

 

[James Macbeth]

The antichrist was the apostasized papacy.

The Reformers recognized and declared this beginning with John Wycliffe.

And they had no other political motives?

Like stealing Church land?

Taking from the monks, what they built over hundreds of years?

Kicking peasants with disabilities out into the streets or into the wilderness.