New But Not Improved

[marks]

Even though our nature is free from sin, we still have free will.

IF your "nature" is free from sin, and you have the Holy Spirit inside, why would you ever choose to sin??

What you call "nature", remember, the nature of something is a description of the properties of that thing. The nature of a rock, it is hard and often crystaline, drops when you let it go, like that.

The nature of a man born from Adam, corrupted by sin.

You speak of "sin nature", but you don't mean the nature of sin itself, what you are really talking about is the sinful nature of man, is that right?

Much love!

 

[Behold]

But what we have that Adam didn't have was the power of the Holy Spirit.

What we have that Adam and Eve didnt have was Jesus as their sin bearer as the Cross of Christ.
No Cross in that Garden.
If they had access to this Eternal Redemption, then we would not need it.

 

[marks]

What we can agree on I hope is that when we live up the the level of obedience that the Holy Spirit has written on our conscience, we are sinless.

Actually I don't believe there are things we do now that are sinful - as will be shown to us in the future - but are not sinful now as we do them, having not been imprinted with those things yet.

For me, sinless means just that, never doing anything contrary to love for God and love for others, never doing anything contrary to faith, never leaving anything good undone, never diverting into fleshy thought or behavior. Never transgressing in any form. That to me is what "sinless" requires.

Before the Law, sin was in the world, but sin was not imputed because there was no law. Just the same, everyone died, because everyone sinned. They had not disobeyed the commandment, but still they died because they did what was wrong. They weren't charged with wrongdoing, but even so, sin kills, and so they died.

How is it that we have a lower standard then them, we who are reborn, and have the Holy Spirit? I can't agree that there is a sort of "potentially sinful sinlessness".

Anything that does not serve God is not holy. At least, that's how I think of holiness. Nothing that is in any way wrong, whether we realize it at the time, is righteousness.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

And he goes on the describe this very thing, that we've been separated from our corrupted body of flesh, and being joined to Christ,

Give them the verse.

Its Colossians 2:11

 

[Behold]

Before the Law, sin was in the world, but sin was not imputed because there was no law.

And now that the born again are "NOT UNDER THE LAW, but UNDER GRACE" its the same situation.

Hallelujah !!!!!!

Hallelujah !!!!!!

Welcome to Salvation, the New Testament, and the New Covenant.

This is why God does not impute sin to the born again.. Romans 4:8 & 2 Corinthians 5:19

1.) Jesus became your sin

2.) you are not under the law, you are under Grace

3.) Jesus has redeemed us from the "curse of the Law".... (See #2 for the update.)


Welcome to Salvation
Isn't it Great?

Thank you JESUS !!!!!

 

[marks]

Give them the verse.

Its Colossians 2:11

Colossians 2:11 KJV
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

I've long wondered why posters don't include the text of the verse they are referencing. For myself, I enjoy putting Scriptures in front of mine and everyone's eyes. Also for the easy reference to the passage.

I had more in mind the passages following from Romans 6, through ch 7 and 8. I find Romans 4-8 a very detailed and precise teaching about what God has and is doing with us. But to be sure, Colossians contains many of the same things, if a bit more abreviated.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

IF your "nature" is free from sin, and you have the Holy Spirit inside, why would you ever choose to sin??

Right. Why would you?

You speak of "sin nature", but you don't mean the nature of sin itself, what you are really talking about is the sinful nature of man, is that right?

When Adam was first created he had a pure human nature.

That nature was corrupted when he sinned, and became like Satan. Man inherited that nature and could never be righteous on his own. That is the reason Jesus came; to take away that corrupted nature and make us a new creation. That is what is meant by being "born again." We no longer have sin in our nature, BUT we still have free will, thus Paul's numerous warnings.

Throughout every level of obedience the Holy Spirit places on us, as long as we live up to the righteousness of each level, we remain sinless. But perfection is at the end when we live up to the last level of obedience, the highest.

 

[Behold]

Colossians 2:11 KJV
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

I've long wondered why posters don't include the text of the verse they are referencing. For myself, I enjoy putting Scriptures in front of mine and everyone's eyes. Also for the easy reference to the passage.

I had more in mind the passages following from Romans 6, through ch 7 and 8. I find Romans 4-8 a very detailed and precise teaching about what God has and is doing with us. But to be sure, Colossians contains many of the same things, if a bit more abreviated.

Much love!

Praise God !!!

Thank you Jesus for your Salvation !!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What we have that Adam and Eve didnt have was Jesus as their sin bearer as the Cross of Christ.
No Cross in that Garden.
If they had access to this Eternal Redemption, then we would not need it.

We have the Spirit of Christ in us. Adam didn't.

Romans 8:9

 

[Behold]

We have the Spirit of Christ in us. Adam didn't.

Sure He did.

He was made in the Image of God, and God breathed the "spirit" into him, and he became " LIVING."
Jesus BREATHED this same SPIRIT into the Apostles in John 20:22

1st ADAM was "one with God"... and that is what he lost when he rebelled, and became fallen from that Spiritual Union.

Do you not realize why Jesus is the 2nd Adam?
Its because the First was of the Same Spirit, the Holy Spirit......in Spiritual Union with God.
That is what is LOST by Adam #1 and restored to us by Adam #2...= JESUS.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Sure He did.

He was made in the Image of God, and God breathed the "spirit" into him, and he became " LIVING."
Jesus BREATHED this same SPIRIT into the Apostles in John 20:22

1st ADAM was "one with God"... and that is what he lost when he rebelled, and became fallen from that Spiritual Union.

Do you not realize why Jesus is the 2nd Adam?
Its because the First was of the Same Spirit, the Holy Spirit......in Spiritual Union with God.
That is what is LOST by Adam #1 and restored to us by Adam #2...= JESUS.

I hadn't thought of that. You are right! That makes it doubly heinous for him to willfully sin when he had the power not to.

 

[Behold]

I hadn't thought of that. You are right! That makes it doubly heinous for him to willfully sin when he had the power not to.

Yes.
Adam caused the fall of us all.

Adam talked to God, walked with God, had the entire planet, garden, the beautiful EVE, and the entire cosmic universe as His TOY, his Palace, and he decided he'd follow other plans courtesy of the Devil.
Now, We are all down here in this Pit, hoping to leave it soon with Christ, and its all because Adam chose to walk on the wild side with the Fallen one, Himself.
= The original REBEL.

 

[Netchaplain]

What are you talking about? I don't have any desire to sin.

When we are reborn, we no longer have a desire to sin, and that's God's goal for the believer, as He "works in you" to desire His good pleasure instead of our the old man. We still unintentionally sin because of the old man. and it's the Cross that removed our desire to sin, plus God keeps "working" this in us (Phl 2:13); otherwise we would still desire to sin.

 

[Netchaplain]

No verse in the NT says that "Paul sinned", after His conversion.

Paul admitted he still sinned after becoming a Christian. In Ro 7:14-25 Paul said it was his old man (sin) that made him do wrong (vs 17, 20). Some do not realize that these verse demonstrate that Paul confessed that he still sinned, but showed us that he didn't want to sin. This is just the normal state of a Christian, sinning, confessing and repenting. If we say we no longer sin "we deceive ourselves" (1Jo 1:8).

 

[Behold]

This is just the normal state of a Christian, sinning, confessing and repenting.

What you just wrote, is one of the most Cultic, Cross denying, Demonic statements ive ever read, written by a so called "christian" on a Forum.
You just denied the Power of the Blood Atonement and the Power of God through Christ in the Believer.
You just denied completely, everything that Paul teaches about being made free from Sin, by and through the Power of Christ.

Your issue here, Netchaplin, among others, is that you dont realize that Paul is teaching how to not do that....>He Isn't teaching that he is doing that... as heretics teach, as you know.
He is explaining that in him, in his flesh is no good thing, and then he explains that the new man, is Who he is now, and That Christ in Him, is this...

"""" Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"""
"being made free from Sin"
"it is not i who live, but Christ who lives in me"
"sin shall not have dominion over you as you are not under the law, but under Grace""
"Christ always gives me the Victory"...
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me"""

See all that deceiver?

So Paul didnt say he was sinning, so you need to back off that carnal Lie.
What He said was...that in the old man is no good thing, and that is why he told YOU to "reckon it dead" and "Put on the armor of God" and "walk in the Spirit" and "renew the Mind"....and ""you wont fulfill the lusts of your FLESH"" that you say is your "sinning, confessing, repenting" real Christianity.
Its not mine, carnal one.
And i believe that its not the "real Christianity" of many Believers on this forum.
But, as you said, the sinning, confessing, repeating...is YOUR THEOLOGY and YOUR Christianity.
I believe you, NetChaplin, and so does God.

You have twisted what Paul wrote to manifest your incredible lying accusation against the greatest Christian who ever lived.

Now listen up, deceiver..
You are the person who claims to the "sinning, confessing, repeating"..... Chaplin of the entire internet.
= What a incredible pile of pride filled nonsense.
Truly.

Do you know what a "Fool's errand" is,.....this phrase, this person, Netchaplin??

Let me clearly define one for you.

A Fool's errand would be a person who denounces the Greatest Born Again Christian, who ever lived , (The Apostle Paul) on multiple Christian forums, as a known "sinner",... you said.... for the purpose of doing the Devil's work on these forums, which would be to use this LIE against Paul, for the main purpose of teaching the deception that all Christians are to be found sinning and confessing and repeating, like you do it.

Take my advice.. If you are even half as smart as you think you are, then immediately repent of trying to maliciously castigate and abuse by Bible twisting Threads and Posts the finest born again "chosen vessel" of Christ who ever lived on God's Green Globe.
As that's a fool's errand you are dedicated to "ministering" Mr ""Repeat"" sinner.

Understand, NetChaplin ?

 

[Taken]

New But Not Improved​

OP ^

REMEMBER...the Converted NEW Creature, is Accounted NEW, (crucified with Christ) ... Borrowing Christ Jesus’ Risen body to dwell “IN”... ie “IN” Christ.

Sure, your soul has been saved, which can ONLY be saved AFTER a bodily death occurs....(ie Crucified with Christ Jesus, sufficient)...

Sure, your natural spirit (ie truth) in your heart has be circumcised. You were given a New Heart, Gods SEED, which birthed you a NEW spirit (ie truth)...ie Gods TRUTH.

Uh...REMEMBER....your logical thinking, ever changing MIND?
God DID NOTHING to “change” your MIND.
REMEMBER....Scripture says:

Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

A conversion Of a man is Gods Works.
A converted mans own works Pertaining to himself...is far from over.

Every day a Converted man, MUST LISTEN to the TRUTH in his HEART (new spirit)....to OVERRIDE ... SUPERSEDE the devious, silly, corrupt, underhanded influenced, thoughts in his CARNAL MIND.

The more a Converted man, knows this, practices this....the quicker that man reaches the GOAL of having a MIND “LIKE” Christ.

And the fact is ... it IS a process. There is no “instant” brain change, Because a man has become Converted.

Men WAG their tongue, POINT their finger.....oh, oh, he claims to be a Born Again Christian.....but, but, but....look what he says, look what he does....shame, shame, shame, fake, fraud. Pfff

The fact is....A converted man is soul and spirit Changed, Forgiven and Freed from SIN....
AND all converted men HAVE THE TOOLS (Quickened Spirit) and Gods Spirit of truth IN them.......
NOT ALL are “handymen” and have learned HOW TO USE their TOOLS....or have become MASTERS at using their TOOLS, to supersede their Carnal Minds thoughts with their New spirit’s Heartful thoughts.

REMEMBER....”born”... is a babe newbie condition, much learning to do.
REMEMBER....”born again”... is a babe newbie condition, much practicing to do.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[1stCenturyLady]

When we are reborn, we no longer have a desire to sin, and that's God's goal for the believer, as He "works in you" to desire His good pleasure instead of our the old man. We still unintentionally sin because of the old man. and it's the Cross that removed our desire to sin, plus God keeps "working" this in us (Phl 2:13); otherwise we would still desire to sin.

What I have found because of knowing about the two different types of sins, is what Jesus first takes away in 1 John 3:5 is the previous verse, "sin is lawlessness" (4). Those are the moral laws of God found in the Ten Commandments. I was an adulteress, and the next day after being filled with the Spirit, I was free from that sin.

The unintentional sins that we still commit but are still deemed sinless in God's sight, are trespasses, the second type of sins which are NOT unto death like the first ones (lawlessness). They are based on the fruit of the Spirit and do not all mature at the same time. We see that in 2 Peter 1:5-7. See the progression?

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.

These we commit against one another, and God puts the responsibility on us to forgive those who trespass against us.

Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

We see that we can commit those even when walking in the Spirit, but our reconciling with one another (through forgiveness) causes the blood of Jesus to cleanse us of all sins keeping us sinless.

We must focus on sinlessness, and not that the old man can be resurrected if we quench the Spirit. As marks said, if you are free from sin, who would want to sin?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

New But Not Improved​

OP ^

REMEMBER...the Converted NEW Creature, is Accounted NEW, (crucified with Christ) ... Borrowing Christ Jesus’ Risen body to dwell “IN”... ie “IN” Christ.

Sure, your soul has been saved, which can ONLY be saved AFTER a bodily death occurs....(ie Crucified with Christ Jesus, sufficient)...

Sure, your natural spirit (ie truth) in your heart has be circumcised. You were given a New Heart, Gods SEED, which birthed you a NEW spirit (ie truth)...ie Gods TRUTH.

Uh...REMEMBER....your logical thinking, ever changing MIND?
God DID NOTHING to “change” your MIND.
REMEMBER....Scripture says:

Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

A conversion Of a man is Gods Works.
A converted mans own works Pertaining to himself...is far from over.

Every day a Converted man, MUST LISTEN to the TRUTH in his HEART (new spirit)....to OVERRIDE ... SUPERSEDE the devious, silly, corrupt, underhanded influenced, thoughts in his CARNAL MIND.

The more a Converted man, knows this, practices this....the quicker that man reaches the GOAL of having a MIND “LIKE” Christ.

And the fact is ... it IS a process. There is no “instant” brain change, Because a man has become Converted.

Men WAG their tongue, POINT their finger.....oh, oh, he claims to be a Born Again Christian.....but, but, but....look what he says, look what he does....shame, shame, shame, fake, fraud. Pfff

The fact is....A converted man is soul and spirit Changed, Forgiven and Freed from SIN....
AND all converted men HAVE THE TOOLS (Quickened Spirit) and Gods Spirit of truth IN them.......
NOT ALL are “handymen” and have learned HOW TO USE their TOOLS....or have become MASTERS at using their TOOLS, to supersede their Carnal Minds thoughts with their New spirit’s Heartful thoughts.

REMEMBER....”born”... is a babe newbie condition, much learning to do.
REMEMBER....”born again”... is a babe newbie condition, much practicing to do.

Glory to God,
Taken

Let me show you what I have just discovered about the gospel and see if you want to say that "God does nothing to change our mind" and that we still have a "carnal" mind. "Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our FAITH."

First off, it is God who draws us to Christ. Second, when we repent we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, "the power of God." You've got the "process" right. Here it is in scripture,

Romans 1:16-17
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

This is how it plays out when we first come to Christ. God plants the first-level commandments of obedience/faith onto a baby-Christian's conscience. That is the major sins of lawlessness - the moral laws against the Ten Commandments, and plants the seed of the fruit of the Spirit. As we live up to that level (Phil. 3:16) we are sinless. Then God ups the growth and plants the next level of obedience commandments. As we live up to those, we are sinless. The sins we don't know about yet are cleansed by the blood of Jesus. 1 John 1:7. During these levels God keeps pruning the fruit of the Spirit He planted. We become more and more like Christ with every level towards perfection. We are sinless throughout, but not sinless perfection. When we live up the the last level of obedience God plants and all our fruit are mature, we are perfect - and sinless.

 

[Taken]

Let me show you what I have just discovered about the gospel and see if you want to say that "God does nothing to change our mind" and that we still have a "carnal" mind. "Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our FAITH."

First off, it is God who draws us to Christ. Second, when we repent we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, "the power of God." You've got the "process" right. Here it is in scripture,

Romans 1:16-17
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

This is how it plays out when we first come to Christ. God plants the first-level commandments of obedience/faith onto a baby-Christian's conscience. That is the major sins of lawlessness - the moral laws against the Ten Commandments, and plants the seed of the fruit of the Spirit. As we live up to that level (Phil. 3:16) we are sinless. Then God ups the growth and plants the next level of obedience commandments. As we live up to those, we are sinless. The sins we don't know about yet are cleansed by the blood of Jesus. 1 John 1:7. During these levels God keeps pruning the fruit of the Spirit He planted. We become more and more like Christ with every level towards perfection. We are sinless throughout, but not sinless perfection. When we live up the the last level of obedience God plants and all our fruit are mature, we are perfect - and sinless.

No … we are Not sinless.
Our sin is Forgiven and Covered. Our new sinless body is prepared but not yet manifested / risen.
We are not yet perfect.
We are “perfected” because we are IN Christ.

 

[Netchaplain]

What you just wrote, is one of the most Cultic, Cross denying, Demonic statements ive ever read, written by a so called "christian" on a Forum.
You just denied the Power of the Blood Atonement and the Power of God through Christ in the Believer.
You just denied completely, everything that Paul teaches about being made free from Sin, by and through the Power of Christ.

Your issue here, Netchaplin, among others, is that you dont realize that Paul is teaching how to not do that....>He Isn't teaching that he is doing that... as heretics teach, as you know.
He is explaining that in him, in his flesh is no good thing, and then he explains that the new man, is Who he is now, and That Christ in Him, is this...

"""" Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"""
"being made free from Sin"
"it is not i who live, but Christ who lives in me"
"sin shall not have dominion over you as you are not under the law, but under Grace""
"Christ always gives me the Victory"...
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me"""

See all that deceiver?

So Paul didnt say he was sinning, so you need to back off that carnal Lie.
What He said was...that in the old man is no good thing, and that is why he told YOU to "reckon it dead" and "Put on the armor of God" and "walk in the Spirit" and "renew the Mind"....and ""you wont fulfill the lusts of your FLESH"" that you say is your "sinning, confessing, repenting" real Christianity.
Its not mine, carnal one.
And i believe that its not the "real Christianity" of many Believers on this forum.
But, as you said, the sinning, confessing, repeating...is YOUR THEOLOGY and YOUR Christianity.
I believe you, NetChaplin, and so does God.

You have twisted what Paul wrote to manifest your incredible lying accusation against the greatest Christian who ever lived.

Now listen up, deceiver..
You are the person who claims to the "sinning, confessing, repeating"..... Chaplin of the entire internet.
= What a incredible pile of pride filled nonsense.
Truly.

Do you know what a "Fool's errand" is,.....this phrase, this person, Netchaplin??

Let me clearly define one for you.

A Fool's errand would be a person who denounces the Greatest Born Again Christian, who ever lived , (The Apostle Paul) on multiple Christian forums, as a known "sinner",... you said.... for the purpose of doing the Devil's work on these forums, which would be to use this LIE against Paul, for the main purpose of teaching the deception that all Christians are to be found sinning and confessing and repeating, like you do it.

Take my advice.. If you are even half as smart as you think you are, then immediately repent of trying to maliciously castigate and abuse by Bible twisting Threads and Posts the finest born again "chosen vessel" of Christ who ever lived on God's Green Globe.
As that's a fool's errand you are dedicated to "ministering" Mr ""Repeat"" sinner.

Understand, NetChaplin ?

You would get more replies if you didn't use accusations. Be kind and loving Friend (Rev 12:10).