New Testament Morality

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Titus

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One could say exactly the same thing about the Koran or the Book of Mormon or the Vedas and Upanishads or any of a huge number of other religious writings. Does that mean that you regard all Muslims and Mormons and Hindus and Sikhs and Baha'is

In Matthew 6:14-15 Jesus is reported to have said the following:



That’s very clear. The only way to earn the forgiveness of God is by forgiving the sins of other people. Faith is not required, just forgiveness.

Which sins must be forgiven? Jesus answered that question too:



Every sin except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to be forgiven. That means murder, rape, incest, sodomy, assault, battery, robbery, fraud, slander, libel--- all those sins and many more must be forgiven.

In the above passage Jesus is talking about the sins that he will forgive, both in this life and in the afterlife. Surely Jesus doesn’t expect his followers to forgive the same sins, does he? Well, yes actually-- he does:



Jesus expects his followers to be as perfect as God. If God forgives all sins but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, then so must his followers.

And how many times must a sin be forgiven? That question was answered elsewhere in the book of Matthew:



Some translations render the last number as seventy times seven, or 490. But whether it’s 77 times or 490 times, that’s a lot of forgiveness! I would argue that Jesus never expected his followers to keep track of how many times they have forgiven a sin. The number 77, as I see it, was never intended to be understood as a real number, but should instead be interpreted as “a number that is so huge that no one could ever forgive a sin that many times.” That is, the number 77 is the First Century CE equivalent of “infinity.”

So Jesus expects his followers to forgive every sin except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and to forgive them infinitely many times. The Lord’s Prayer underscores the importance of forgiveness by asking his followers to think about it every day:



Clearly forgiveness is the crux of the morality that Jesus taught.

Or, rather-- that’s the morality of the version of Jesus one finds in the book of Matthew. The Jesus of the book of John never once says that his followers must forgive the sins of other people if they are to earn the forgiveness of God!

Christians have sided with the John Jesus and have ignored the morality of the Matthew Jesus. The Catholic Catechism never once cites or even references Matthew 5:48, Matthew 6:14-15, Matthew 12:31-32, or Matthew 18:21-23. Furthermore, the Catechism lists the seven Christian virtues as follows:



Note that forgiveness is not one of the listed virtues. Matthew 6:14-15 says that you must forgive the sins of others if you wish to be forgiven by God, and yet the Catholic Church doesn’t think that forgiveness is a virtue!

Perhaps you might think that forgiveness is simply a subtype of charity. No! Here’s the first definition of “forgive” in the Miriam-Webster dictionary:



That is, forgiveness implies an intent not to prosecute. And here’s the first definition of “charity” from the same dictionary:



Forgiveness is extended to someone who has committed a sin; charity is extended to those in need, regardless of whether they have committed an offense. So they are two very different actions.

Earlier we found that Jesus expects his followers to forgive every sin except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and to forgive each sin infinitely many times. That seems pretty ridiculous. If an armed man forces his way into my house and kills my spouse before my eyes, I would not be willing to simply shrug it off and tell the man “I forgive you.” No! I would want to report his actions to the authorities and have him arrested so that he can stand trial for murder!

To pardon someone means to exempt them from punishment. So according to Jesus, not only am I supposed to cease to feel resentment, but if my spouse’s killer were to return to my house I would be obligated to reaffirm my pardon of his actions. I must never even seek to have him prosecuted!

Here is a very well known passage from the book of Matthew that shows just how much Jesus expected of his followers:



It’s difficult to understand how loving someone like Adolf Hitler, or Kim Jong Un, or Mao Zedong, or Vladamir Putin could improve the world condition. But Jesus wasn’t trying to make the world a better place in which to live. He was only trying to prepare his followers for an eternity in paradise.

The story of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:25-37 is a wonderful tale of compassion and generosity. The Beatitudes in Matthew 5:1-11 show compassion for the downtrodden and oppressed. A story about the last judgment in Matthew 25:31-46 shows that Jesus expects the people of earth to extend charity to those in need. And the story of the woman accused of adultery in John 7:53 – 8:11 shows that forgiveness, used judiciously, can bring about a renewal of spirit and a corresponding change of behavior.

But universal forgiveness of any and all crimes is simply not practical in a modern society. That particular aspect of the moral teachings of Jesus is just far too idealistic. A society that forgives all crimes will effectively be rewarding criminals. The end result of such a policy will inevitably be an escalation of crime. Jesus may have believed that his followers would be so few in number that the policy of forgiving every sin would never be disruptive to the social order. But in the United States about 65% of the population considers itself to be Christian, so that notion is no longer tenable. The universal forgiveness teaching of Jesus may be revered as an unattainable ideal, but it must never be codified in law or social policy.
Hello Sir, Where does your idea of morality come from?
 
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amigo de christo

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One could say exactly the same thing about the Koran or the Book of Mormon or the Vedas and Upanishads or any of a huge number of other religious writings. Does that mean that you regard all Muslims and Mormons and Hindus and Sikhs and Baha'is as brothers in faith?
They all are as false as their books .
But sadly jim has already said the muslims worship the same GOD we do .
And that is a lie from the dragon .
SO allow me some parting words .
Is it true that muslims claim to hold to torah and moses . YES they do make that claim .
BUT SO DID the unbeliving jews .
And JESUS told them They didnt even believe MOSES for MOSES spoke of HIM .
The unbelieving jews , the muslims or any other religoin IS NOT WORSHIPPING the same GOD WE DO .
THEY worship rather this god .
And i am gonna allow the words of JESUS to spell it out .
JESUS told this to the unbelieving jews , EVEN THOUGH those jews cliamed they knew MOSES and GOD ,
JESUS said this , YE ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL .
The muslims wont get a pass either . THEY TOO follow satan .
TRUTH is we all once followed satan .
THERE IS BUT ONE WAY TO BE FREED FROM SATAN and the powers of darkness .
AND JESUS said it to paul.
Read acts chapter twenty six . BY FAITH IN ME . THAT IS IT FOLKS . And if one preaches another jesus
as the muslims clearly do , IT AINT JESUS CHRIST . IT WONT SAVE THEM .
TIME TO GET back to the bible and let us learn it well . Be encouraged .
 
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Jim B

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One could say exactly the same thing about the Koran or the Book of Mormon or the Vedas and Upanishads or any of a huge number of other religious writings. Does that mean that you regard all Muslims and Mormons and Hindus and Sikhs and Baha'is as brothers in faith?
Do you seriously want me to answer that absurd question?

Do you equate the Koran or the Book of Mormon or the Vedas and Upanishads or any of a huge number of other religious writings with the Bible? Do you you regard all Muslims and Mormons and Hindus and Sikhs and Baha'is as brothers in faith?
 

Jim B

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They all are as false as their books .
But sadly jim has already said the muslims worship the same GOD we do .
And that is a lie from the dragon .
SO allow me some parting words .
Is it true that muslims claim to hold to torah and moses . YES they do make that claim .
BUT SO DID the unbeliving jews .
And JESUS told them They didnt even believe MOSES for MOSES spoke of HIM .
The unbelieving jews , the muslims or any other religoin IS NOT WORSHIPPING the same GOD WE DO .
THEY worship rather this god .
And i am gonna allow the words of JESUS to spell it out .
JESUS told this to the unbelieving jews , EVEN THOUGH those jews cliamed they knew MOSES and GOD ,
JESUS said this , YE ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL .
The muslims wont get a pass either . THEY TOO follow satan .
TRUTH is we all once followed satan .
THERE IS BUT ONE WAY TO BE FREED FROM SATAN and the powers of darkness .
AND JESUS said it to paul.
Read acts chapter twenty six . BY FAITH IN ME . THAT IS IT FOLKS . And if one preaches another jesus
as the muslims clearly do , IT AINT JESUS CHRIST . IT WONT SAVE THEM .
TIME TO GET back to the bible and let us learn it well . Be encouraged .
Your ignorance is on full display! Muslims do worship the same God as we do, as do the Jews. Since you don't know that, then you hate them for worshiping the one true God.

BTW, read your Bible -- a decent, modern translation -- because the believing Jews held to torah and Moses. (Unbelieving Jews worshipped idols.)

The Jews and the Muslims WORSHIP THE SAME GOD THAT WE DO. I know that you don't believe that, but it is the truth! And neither group follows Satan.

It's time that you got back to the bible and let us learned its basic truths. Start with "God is love" and "God so loved the world" and "God did not send His Son to condemn the world", then focus on how you behave!
 

Jim B

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They all are as false as their books .
But sadly jim has already said the muslims worship the same GOD we do .
And that is a lie from the dragon .
SO allow me some parting words .
Is it true that muslims claim to hold to torah and moses . YES they do make that claim .
BUT SO DID the unbeliving jews .
And JESUS told them They didnt even believe MOSES for MOSES spoke of HIM .
The unbelieving jews , the muslims or any other religoin IS NOT WORSHIPPING the same GOD WE DO .
THEY worship rather this god .
And i am gonna allow the words of JESUS to spell it out .
JESUS told this to the unbelieving jews , EVEN THOUGH those jews cliamed they knew MOSES and GOD ,
JESUS said this , YE ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL .
The muslims wont get a pass either . THEY TOO follow satan .
TRUTH is we all once followed satan .
THERE IS BUT ONE WAY TO BE FREED FROM SATAN and the powers of darkness .
AND JESUS said it to paul.
Read acts chapter twenty six . BY FAITH IN ME . THAT IS IT FOLKS . And if one preaches another jesus
as the muslims clearly do , IT AINT JESUS CHRIST . IT WONT SAVE THEM .
TIME TO GET back to the bible and let us learn it well . Be encouraged .
Correction: Jim has truthfully said the Muslims worship the same GOD we do . Clearly, you have zero knowledge of Islam!

And you're repeating the same falsity: the believing Jews held to the torah and Moses. The unbelieving Jews worshipped idols.

Jesus Himself, all of Jesus' disciples, all the apostles, all the first Christian believers, and all the authors of the Bible (with one exception (Luke) ) were Jews, so your anti-Semitism is false.

Finally, Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God. Anything to the contrary is a lie.

READ YOUR BIBLE! (One you can understand, because judging by your chronically poor English, the KJV is way too difficult for you).
 
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Hello Sir, Where does your idea of morality come from?

I believe in democracy and the rule of law. Democracy is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. Or the Koran. Or the Book of Mormon. I therefore view all of those writings (and many others as well) as being incomplete, at best. I believe people should be judged on the basis of their actions and deeds in life, not on the basis of their beliefs. And I further believe that those who judge people chiefly or solely on the basis of their beliefs, rather than their deeds and actions, are bigots.
 
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Do you seriously want me to answer that absurd question?

Do you equate the Koran or the Book of Mormon or the Vedas and Upanishads or any of a huge number of other religious writings with the Bible? Do you you regard all Muslims and Mormons and Hindus and Sikhs and Baha'is as brothers in faith?

I don't think the question is absurd. In fact I think it's a perfectly natural question to ask. You said that you interpret the Bible on the basis of the Holy Spirit. There are literally billions of Muslims who would say that is exactly how they interpret the Koran. So I concluded, naturally I thought, that you must think that Muslims share your approach to faith. You both believe in being guided by the Holy Spirit in interpreting your separate religious writings. And therefore I assumed that you must regard Muslims as your brothers in faith. Do you not?

I believe that some spiritual guidance can be derived from all of the writings I mentioned. But as I mentioned in another response on this thread I believe in democracy and the rule of law. Democracy is nowhere mentioned in any of the writings I cited, so I regard all of them as being incomplete.

And yes, I am fully aware that Jews, Christians, Muslims, and Mormons all claim to worship the God of Abraham. See this posting from 23 days ago: The Messiah
 

Jim B

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I don't think the question is absurd. In fact I think it's a perfectly natural question to ask. You said that you interpret the Bible on the basis of the Holy Spirit. There are literally billions of Muslims who would say that is exactly how they interpret the Koran. So I concluded, naturally I thought, that you must think that Muslims share your approach to faith. You both believe in being guided by the Holy Spirit in interpreting your separate religious writings. And therefore I assumed that you must regard Muslims as your brothers in faith. Do you not?

I believe that some spiritual guidance can be derived from all of the writings I mentioned. But as I mentioned in another response on this thread I believe in democracy and the rule of law. Democracy is nowhere mentioned in any of the writings I cited, so I regard all of them as being incomplete.

And yes, I am fully aware that Jews, Christians, Muslims, and Mormons all claim to worship the God of Abraham. See this posting from 23 days ago: The Messiah
Do you think that the Bible and the Koran are the same? If Muslims interpret the Koran in a similar fashion as I and other Christians do that doesn't mean that we agree, it just means that we are open to the writings. If that is what you mean by the approach to faith, fine, but that doesn't make us "brothers", any more than eating Chinese food means I share something with the Chinese people.

Democracy is a modern political system, not a religious system, so why would it be mentioned in Scripture? Baseball isn't mentioned either.
 

Titus

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I believe in democracy and the rule of law. Democracy is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. Or the Koran. Or the Book of Mormon
Thanks for responding! What I mean Sir,... Where do you believe your morality originated from?

Surely you don't believe your morality orginanated from democracy.
If it did then morality did not exist before democracy.
 
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Do you think that the Bible and the Koran are the same?

Nope-- certainly not.

Jim B:
If Muslims interpret the Koran in a similar fashion as I and other Christians do that doesn't mean that we agree, it just means that we are open to the writings. If that is what you mean by the approach to faith, fine, but that doesn't make us "brothers", any more than eating Chinese food means I share something with the Chinese people.

The Muslim contention is that the entire Koran was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Mohammed, it is said, simply recited the words that were given to him by the Holy Spirit. So Muslims believe that the Koran is truly the word of God. Christians, likewise, believe that every book of the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit and that it is therefore the word of God. That's a pretty strong common bond. Maybe you don't share meals with Muslims, but you certainly share a common approach to your reading of your respective religious texts. If you believe that being guided by the Holy Spirit in your reading of the Bible is the only right, true, and proper way to read it, then shouldn't Muslims have every reason to believe the same about their reading of the Koran?

Jim B:
Democracy is a modern political system, not a religious system, so why would it be mentioned in Scripture? Baseball isn't mentioned either.

Well, the first major true democracy was Periclean Athens around 500 BCE. I wouldn't call that "modern." And by the way the structure of Athenian society at that time was far more democratic than what we have enshrined in the US Constitution today.

No, there's no reason why the Bible or any other collection of religious writings would need to comment on democracy. It's pretty clear from what Jesus said that he didn't really care about making this world a better place in which to live. His whole message was about preparing his perfect followers for an eternity in paradise:

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal, but store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal."
(Matthew 6:19 - 20, NRSVue)

But I think that government and society are the most important aspects of human life here on earth. So to me, that is a far more important topic for discussion than the fantasies people have about eternal life. The Christians on this website can't even explain how their vaunted principle of salvation actually works. Why then should anyone care about it? Let's focus on that which we can control-- government and society. It's certainly not perfect, but if we work at it, we can make it better. And as far as I can see the only way to do that is by way of democracy.
 

Jim B

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Nope-- certainly not.

Jim B:


The Muslim contention is that the entire Koran was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Mohammed, it is said, simply recited the words that were given to him by the Holy Spirit. So Muslims believe that the Koran is truly the word of God. Christians, likewise, believe that every book of the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit and that it is therefore the word of God. That's a pretty strong common bond. Maybe you don't share meals with Muslims, but you certainly share a common approach to your reading of your respective religious texts. If you believe that being guided by the Holy Spirit in your reading of the Bible is the only right, true, and proper way to read it, then shouldn't Muslims have every reason to believe the same about their reading of the Koran?

Jim B:


Well, the first major true democracy was Periclean Athens around 500 BCE. I wouldn't call that "modern." And by the way the structure of Athenian society at that time was far more democratic than what we have enshrined in the US Constitution today.

No, there's no reason why the Bible or any other collection of religious writings would need to comment on democracy. It's pretty clear from what Jesus said that he didn't really care about making this world a better place in which to live. His whole message was about preparing his perfect followers for an eternity in paradise:



But I think that government and society are the most important aspects of human life here on earth. So to me, that is a far more important topic for discussion than the fantasies people have about eternal life. The Christians on this website can't even explain how their vaunted principle of salvation actually works. Why then should anyone care about it? Let's focus on that which we can control-- government and society. It's certainly not perfect, but if we work at it, we can make it better. And as far as I can see the only way to do that is by way of democracy.
I have nothing against Muslims. They worship the same God as Christians and Jews.

Why should people care about salvation? Because it is what Christ died for!

BTW, when I said that democracy is modern, I was referencing human history. It is more modern than, say, the governmental systems of the Old Testament, which was written as early as 2700 BCE.

I agree with your last paragraph.
 
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BTW, when I said that democracy is modern, I was referencing human history. It is more modern than, say, the governmental systems of the Old Testament, which was written as early as 2700 BCE.

The written Hebrew language did not exist in 2700 BCE:

Given this background, Christopher Rollston, the renowned biblical scholar and Semiticist, argued that "the Proto-Sinaitic Inscriptions from Serabit el-Khadim and Wadi el-Hol" were not in the Hebrew language. Rollston pointed to their date as one factor. Wadi el-Hol inscriptions might be dated to the eighteenth century BCE but the earliest "written in the distinctive Old Hebrew script: cannot be dated earlier than the ninth century BCE, and these scripts are formally distinct.​
(Inventing the Alphabet, Johanna Drucker, pg. 262)​

The only written languages dating to 2700 BCE so far as I am aware were Sumerian, Akkadian, and Egyptian. Not Hebrew.
 

Wrangler

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The written Hebrew language did not exist in 2700 BCE
Ba-zinga.

You are technically correct but spiritually wrong.

The Muslim contention is that the entire Koran was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Wouldn't Satan, seeking to sow confusion, pass himself off as Gabriel or the Holy Spirit or anyone else to achieve his goals? You are so lost, you lack discernment of those who speak the truth with those who make false claims.

Your position is an Appeal to Ignorance AS IF we cannot know what is true in the fact of opposing claims.
 

Jim B

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The written Hebrew language did not exist in 2700 BCE:

Given this background, Christopher Rollston, the renowned biblical scholar and Semiticist, argued that "the Proto-Sinaitic Inscriptions from Serabit el-Khadim and Wadi el-Hol" were not in the Hebrew language. Rollston pointed to their date as one factor. Wadi el-Hol inscriptions might be dated to the eighteenth century BCE but the earliest "written in the distinctive Old Hebrew script: cannot be dated earlier than the ninth century BCE, and these scripts are formally distinct.​
(Inventing the Alphabet, Johanna Drucker, pg. 262)​

The only written languages dating to 2700 BCE so far as I am aware were Sumerian, Akkadian, and Egyptian. Not Hebrew.
Parts of the Old Testament date back to 2700 BC.
 

Jim B

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Oh? WHICH parts?
I don't know which parts. This is an excerpt from the article I read...

So the oldest Biblical text we found is about 2700 years old. Of course, this is just what we’ve been able to locate and date. The first Biblical stories were passed down orally and only written down later by various authors. Most Biblical scholars believe the Book of Genesis was the first book to be written down. This would have happened around 1450 BC to 1400 BC. So perhaps about 3400 years or so ago..
 
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I don't know which parts. This is an excerpt from the article I read...

So the oldest Biblical text we found is about 2700 years old. Of course, this is just what we’ve been able to locate and date. The first Biblical stories were passed down orally and only written down later by various authors. Most Biblical scholars believe the Book of Genesis was the first book to be written down. This would have happened around 1450 BC to 1400 BC. So perhaps about 3400 years or so ago..

Concerning the story of the Hebrews in Egypt:

But whatever the genuine memories that they preserve, the ancestral stories provide modern historians with few data to reconstruct the historical, cultural, and sociological developments from which eventually the Israelite nation arose. None of the names or events described in Genesis 12-50 appear in any other Near Eastern documents; none of the kings (several of whom are named) or pharaohs (who are never named) can be identified from outside sources. No specific date is provided for any of the characters in the narrative. And, not surprisingly, never do the stories attempt to see the actions of the ancestors from a wider political or cultural perspective. Because of this, a modern account of the history of this region during the second millennium BCE virtually never intersects with the stories of the ancestors in Genesis.
(The Oxford History of the Biblical World, pg. 29)

Concerning the story of the Exodus:

Any search for a historical core to the Exodus saga must thus work within the network of established and interdependent chronologies for Egypt and the ancient Near East. The first step is to seek mention of Exodus events in nonbiblical ancient sources. Unfortunately, there are none: no texts from Egypt or anywhere else in the ancient Near East provide such an independent witness. Years of the most intensive scrutiny have failed to produce a single unequivocal, or even generally accepted, nonbiblical historical reference to any event or person involved in the Exodus saga.
(The Oxford History of the Biblical World, pg. 71)

So the idea that the book of Genesis existed in some form in or around 2700 BCE is pure hogwash.

There’s plenty more where that came from. But you can prove to yourself just how worthless the Bible is as a source of historical fact by comparing the two different genealogies given for Jesus in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 with the genealogies given in the Old Testament. If you line them up side-by-side you will discover the following:
  • According to Matthew, Joseph’s father was Jacob while Luke says his father was Heli
  • Matthew says the father of Salathiel was Jechoniah, while Luke says his father was Neri
  • Matthew says there were 27 generations between King David and Jesus, but Luke ways there were 42 generations-- a difference of 36%
  • The only two persons between King David and Joseph who match up in the Matthew and Luke genealogies are Salathiel/Shealtiel and Zerubbabel
  • Both of the genealogies diverge from the genealogies of the Old Testament
  • And most amusingly both Matthew and Luke trace the lineage of Jesus through Joseph, who ostensibly wasn’t his biological father!!!
The books of the Bible-- both Old and New Testaments-- are unreliable and don’t even align with each other, let alone with anything else from the ancient world.

But some people have assumed that everything in the Bible is the word of God and is therefore absolutely true. Such persons are fools.
 

Jim B

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Concerning the story of the Hebrews in Egypt:



Concerning the story of the Exodus:



So the idea that the book of Genesis existed in some form in or around 2700 BCE is pure hogwash.

There’s plenty more where that came from. But you can prove to yourself just how worthless the Bible is as a source of historical fact by comparing the two different genealogies given for Jesus in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 with the genealogies given in the Old Testament. If you line them up side-by-side you will discover the following:
  • According to Matthew, Joseph’s father was Jacob while Luke says his father was Heli
  • Matthew says the father of Salathiel was Jechoniah, while Luke says his father was Neri
  • Matthew says there were 27 generations between King David and Jesus, but Luke ways there were 42 generations-- a difference of 36%
  • The only two persons between King David and Joseph who match up in the Matthew and Luke genealogies are Salathiel/Shealtiel and Zerubbabel
  • Both of the genealogies diverge from the genealogies of the Old Testament
  • And most amusingly both Matthew and Luke trace the lineage of Jesus through Joseph, who ostensibly wasn’t his biological father!!!
The books of the Bible-- both Old and New Testaments-- are unreliable and don’t even align with each other, let alone with anything else from the ancient world.

But some people have assumed that everything in the Bible is the word of God and is therefore absolutely true. Such persons are fools.
It truly saddens me that you lack understanding about the Bible. It is the Word of God. It is not a textbook! Its purpose is to teach spiritual truths. If you don't have the Holy Spirit residing within you then you will never understand God's word.

Any spiritually blind person can show inconsistencies in the Bible, which clearly indicates that they lack understanding.
 
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It truly saddens me that you lack understanding about the Bible. It is the Word of God. It is not a textbook! Its purpose is to teach spiritual truths. If you don't have the Holy Spirit residing within you then you will never understand God's word.

I was responding to your claim that biblical texts existed in 2700 BCE. I didn't interpret that as a spiritual statement-- I interpreted it as a claim of historical fact. So I responded with evidence from the historical record to show that it is just pure baloney.

But to turn to spiritual matters, what exactly is the great spiritual truth that we're supposed to glean from the Bible? Most of the Christians who have commented on this forum claim that the core message is that faith in Jesus is absolutely essential to earn an eternal life in paradise. I say that's an extremely bigoted idea since it would mean that the billions of people who have lived on this planet without ever once having had knowledge or awareness of either Jesus or Yahweh or the Bible will be punished by God for failing to make the right choice-- even though they had no possible means of doing so. If that's what the great spiritual message of the Bible is, I want no part of it.
 

Jim B

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I was responding to your claim that biblical texts existed in 2700 BCE. I didn't interpret that as a spiritual statement-- I interpreted it as a claim of historical fact. So I responded with evidence from the historical record to show that it is just pure baloney.

But to turn to spiritual matters, what exactly is the great spiritual truth that we're supposed to glean from the Bible? Most of the Christians who have commented on this forum claim that the core message is that faith in Jesus is absolutely essential to earn an eternal life in paradise. I say that's an extremely bigoted idea since it would mean that the billions of people who have lived on this planet without ever once having had knowledge or awareness of either Jesus or Yahweh or the Bible will be punished by God for failing to make the right choice-- even though they had no possible means of doing so. If that's what the great spiritual message of the Bible is, I want no part of it.
"If that's what the great spiritual message of the Bible is, I want no part of it." That is your choice. You have passed up the chance for forgiveness of your sins and eternal life. I pity you.