new version of OSAS?

[Corlove13]

I've never made an argument that Christians shouldn't do good works as scripture plainly states that we were created to do them, but salvation and sanctification are entirely the work of the Holy Spirit and if we do anything truly "good" it was God working in us that made it happen. Even our confession of faith in Christ is His work as it is the Holy Spirit that convicts us of our sin and convinces us of the truth.
By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 1 John 4:2-3
That said, we don't determine the length of our lives or our circumstances. There are indeed "death bed" conversions as well as untimely deaths of Christian "babes ", people who believed the gospel and confessed Christ but that didn't live long enough to mature in Him. The Christian children that were rounded up by ISIS and beheaded for not recanting their faith are no less martyrs than the adults who died rather than deny the Lord. But what did Jesus say in the parable of the workers hired for the vineyard?
10 But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius. 11 And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, 12 saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’ 13 But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’ Matthew 20:10-15

I was just thinking that the thief on the cross was not a good example to use. [Just chatting, not everything discussed must be argumentative. ]
Does being sealed guarantee heaven being in the presence of God. All I am saying if it does, what will it be like "if" those who claim to have His Spirit do not purify themselves by it?
Now you face a Holy God...

 

[Corlove13]

My other question is why can't a reward still be your salvation of your soul?

Another word can a reward be your salvation?

 

[Corlove13]

My other question is why can't a reward still be your salvation of your soul?

Another word can a reward be your salvation?

1 Peter 1:9 Aramaic version

That you may receive the reward of your faith: The Life of your souls;


because you are receiving the salvation of your souls, which is the purpose of your faith in him.

New Living
The reward for trusting him will be the salvation of your souls.

So...this here is key to seeing that we enter the kingdom now...so do we have to wait for heaven when we die?

As a matter of fact it is written:
Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die. Do you believe this, Martha?”

 

[Corlove13]

1 Peter 1:9 Aramaic version

That you may receive the reward of your faith: The Life of your souls;


because you are receiving the salvation of your souls, which is the purpose of your faith in him.

New Living
The reward for trusting him will be the salvation of your souls.

So...this here is key to seeing that we enter the kingdom now...so do we have to wait for heaven when we die?

As a matter of fact it is written:
Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die. Do you believe this, Martha?”

Therefore how can we go on to teach OSAS
If Salvation is a continues "life" with and from God after regeneration.

As the plants and animals need the Sun, and water, and air.....so we need Life [F,S,H] to give us meaning, purpose, sustenance, and guidence...etc

A seed is planted in the ground but in order to grow it needs those 3 continuously to grow to its purpose and bear fruit unto life

 

[michaelvpardo]

I don't believe that it's possible for someone sealed with His Spirit to loose their salvation because that denies what scripture plainly says in all related passages except in the hypothetical statement made in Hebrews 6:6 (which is clarified by Hebrews 6:9.) The Apostle Paul has already answered the objections of the carnal minded regarding the use of our liberty for licentiousness so if you don't like the idea expressed as "once saved, always saved" you should take it up with the Apostle and with Jesus when you see them.
However, the concept of being secure in the knowledge of your salvation does not rule out self deception and we have the admonition to examine ourselves to be sure that we are "in Christ."
5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 6 But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified. 2 Corinthians 5-6
If God's children were never errant or disobedient there would be no passages about His discipline of them, but there are such in both the old and new Testaments:
13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men. 2 Samuel 7:13-14
9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:9-11

 

[Corlove13]

I don't believe that it's possible for someone sealed with His Spirit to loose their salvation because that denies what scripture plainly says in all related passages except in the hypothetical statement made in Hebrews 6:6 (which is clarified by Hebrews 6:9.) The Apostle Paul has already answered the objections of the carnal minded regarding the use of our liberty for licentiousness so if you don't like the idea expressed as "once saved, always saved" you should take it up with the Apostle and with Jesus when you see them.
However, the concept of being secure in the knowledge of your salvation does not rule out self deception and we have the admonition to examine ourselves to be sure that we are "in Christ."
5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 6 But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified. 2 Corinthians 5-6
If God's children were never errant or disobedient there would be no passages about His discipline of them, but there are such in both the old and new Testaments:
13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men. 2 Samuel 7:13-14
9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:9-11

Salvation means deliverence...it is a life

You can be given Salvation as the Ark, being a noun.........But if you do not get in the ark and stay there will it save[deliver] you?

Do all children heed chastisement, correction?

 

[michaelvpardo]

I was just thinking that the thief on the cross was not a good example to use. [Just chatting, not everything discussed must be argumentative. ]
Does being sealed guarantee heaven being in the presence of God. All I am saying if it does, what will it be like "if" those who claim to have His Spirit do not purify themselves by it?
Now you face a Holy God...

Sanctification is a life long process, just as salvation is, but it is the work of God and it is impossible for God to fail. Paul expressed his confidence as such:
12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day. 2 Timothy 1:12
Those who persevere in the faith are saved, but even that perseverance is the work of God and the evidence of salvation, not the cause of it. The hearing of God's word produces faith, doubt comes from somewhere else, the accuser of the brethren and the father of lies, beginning with the first lie in the garden of Eden.
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Genesis 3:4-5

 

[Corlove13]

but do you have free will to abide in Him and free will to reject Him?
Jn 15:1-5 abide in me
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Would one go against their nature?

 

[Corlove13]

Sanctification is a life long process, just as salvation is, but it is the work of God and it is impossible for God to fail. Paul expressed his confidence as such:
12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day. 2 Timothy 1:12
Those who persevere in the faith are saved, but even that perseverance is the work of God and the evidence of salvation, not the cause of it. The hearing of God's word produces faith, doubt comes from somewhere else, the accuser of the brethren and the father of lies, beginning with the first lie in the garden of Eden.
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Genesis 3:4-5

Romans 8:13, KJV: "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." ... But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live."

Why does it say....." if ye"

 

[michaelvpardo]

Salvation means deliverence...it is a life

You can be given Salvation as the Ark, being a noun.........But if you do not get in the ark and stay there will it save[deliver] you?

Do all children heed chastisement, correction?

Is the will of man greater than the will of God?
Children can be foolish and resist correction but God even gives us a verse for fools following the way:
A highway shall be there, and a road,
And it shall be called the Highway of Holiness.
The unclean shall not pass over it,
But it shall be for others.
Whoever walks the road, although a fool,
Shall not go astray. Isaiah 35:8

 

[Corlove13]

Is the will of man greater than the will of God?
Children can be foolish and resist correction but God even gives us a verse for fools following the way:
A highway shall be there, and a road,
And it shall be called the Highway of Holiness.
The unclean shall not pass over it,
But it shall be for others.
Whoever walks the road, although a fool,
Shall not go astray. Isaiah 35:8

But He still has to Walk the road

 

[michaelvpardo]

Romans 8:13, KJV: "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." ... But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live."

Why does it say....." if ye"

Because it's a conditional statement contrasting living according to the flesh to living according to the Spirit. If you want to hold lovingly to error that isn't condemning, it just prevents you from receiving more truth. The fear or God is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it. Love is wisdom's conclusion.
7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7
The doctrine of election is commonly dismissed in our time, but is entirely biblical and makes no sense at all if we contribute to our salvation. However, the nature of the flesh is to resist the Spirit as is evident in this very carnal thread.

 

[michaelvpardo]

My other question is why can't a reward still be your salvation of your soul?

Another word can a reward be your salvation?

It can be in the sense that God is our great reward (entirely scriptural) but not our only inheritance.

 

[michaelvpardo]

But He still has to Walk the road

Do you know what the biblical definition of a fool is?

 

[Tong2020]

but do you have free will to abide in Him and free will to reject Him?
Jn 15:1-5 abide in me
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

We must read 2 Tim.2:12 in context.

Tong
R3401

 

[Grailhunter]

No cherry picking on my part. Just pointed out to not misuse verse 6 of the Hebrew 6 passage you quoted.

But here’s some cherry for those who want to know the truth about the Israel of God.

Romans 9:6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

“In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

Now is Isaac saved? Yes, he is. Was there any instance or even a hint in Isaac’s life that he lost his sonship or ceased to being a child of God and later gained it back? I read none.

Who are, like Isaac, the children of promise, the children of God?

They are those who like Isaac, were born according to the Spirit, by the will of God. Let me point out that one’s works nor the flesh nor one’s will had anything to do with this.

Now I have these questions:
1. Have you been born according to the Spirit?
2. If so, by whose will was it? Was it your will?
3. And if you have been born according to the Spirit, whose child are you?
4. Are you among the children of promise like Isaac?

Tong
R3400

Repent...

 

[Tong2020]

Repent...

Love God and also your neighbor.

Love the children of God, the children of promise.

Tong
R3402

 

[theefaith]

We must read 2 Tim.2:12 in context.

Tong
R3401

All scripture is inspired, does not say anything about context?

what is the context in your opinion
If you reject him he will crown you with glory? Says what it means and means what is says, ask the Jews they found out

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
We must read 2 Tim.2:12 in context.

All scripture is inspired, does not say anything about context?

what is the context in your opinion
If you reject him he will crown you with glory? Says what it means and means what is says, ask the Jews they found out

I am afraid I can’t help you with that. Ask the Holy Spirit, He is my Helper. He could help you read that in context.

Tong
R3403

 

[BarneyFife]

Christ went through the most horrible torture and was nailed to a cross...for us...to offer salvation and heaven...is it too much to ask they we try to be as good as we can? Yes it is possible to be good. The doctrine of sin and sin some more and be rewarded for it is from Satan.

I suspect you're preachin' to the choir.