Shalom, dragonfly.
dragonfly said:
Hebrews 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
How should 'no continuing city' be interpreted in light of Hebrews 11:10, 13 - 16 and Hebrews 12:22 - 24?
Does it make any difference that we don't know for sure, who wrote Hebrews?
Wouldn't it be wise to know what one is talking about before making any assumptions? What do the words in the Greek mean? Here's the verse in the Greek, and the Greek words are PREGNANT with meaning!
Hebrews 13:14
14 ou gar echomen hoode menousan polin alla teen mellousan epizeetoumen.
The Greek New Testament
14 ou = 14 not
gar = for
echomen = we-do-hold/possess
hoode = here
menousan = staying/permanent
polin = a-city
alla = but
teen = the/that
mellousan = to-come
epizeetoumen. = we-desire/crave.
And, yes! They do EXACTLY reflect the other two passages!
Hebrews 11:8-10, 13-16
8 Pistei kaloumenos Abraam hupeekousen exelthein eis topon hon eemellen lambanein eis kleeronomian, kai exeelthen mee epistamenos pou erchetai.
9 Pistei parookeesen eis geen thees epaggelias hoos allotrian en skeenais katoikeesas meta Isaak kai Iakoob toon sugkleeronomoon tees epaggelias tees autees;
10 exedecheto bar teen tous themelious echousan polin hees technitees kai deemiourgos ho Theos.
...
13 Kata pistin apethanon houtoi pantes, mee labontes tas epaggelias alla porroothen autas idontes kai aspasamenoi kai homologeesantes hoti xenoi kai parepideemoi eisin epi tees gees.
14 Hoi bar toiauta legontes emfanizousin hoti patrida epizeetousin.
15 Kai ei men ekeinees emneemoneuon af' hees exebeesan eichon an kairon anakampsai;
16 nun de kreittonos oregontai, tout' estin epouraniou. Dio ouk epaischunetai autous ho Theos Theos epikaleisthai autoon; heetoimasen gar autois polin.
The Greek New Testament
8 Pistei = 8 By-trust
kaloumenos = was-called
Abraam = Avraham (Abraham)
hupeekousen = listened-under
exelthein = to-strike-out
eis = into
topon = a-place
hon = which
eemellen = he-would-later
lambanein = receive
eis = into
kleeronomian, = an-inheritance,
kai = and
exeelthen = he-struck-out
mee = not
epistamenos = knowing/comprehending
pou = where
erchetai. = he-was-going.
9 Pistei = 9 By-trust
parookeesen = he-resided-as-a-foreigner
eis = into
geen = land
thees = the
epaggelias = of-promise
hoos = like
allotrian = a-foreign-country
en = in
skeenais = tents
katoikeesas = dwelling
meta = with
Isaak = YItschaq (Isaac)
kai = and
Iakoob = Ya`aqov (Jacob)
toon = the
sugkleeronomoon = heirs-with-him
tees = of-the
epaggelias = promise
tees = of-the
autees; = same;
10 exedecheto = 10 he-was-ready-to-receive
gar = for
teen = that
tous = same
themelious = foundations
echousan = which-has
polin = a-city
hees whose
technitees = designer
kai = and
deemiourgos = constructor
ho = the
Theos. = God.
...
13 Kata = 13 According-to
pistin = trust
apethanon = died-away
houtoi = these
pantes, = all,
mee = not
labontes = having-received
tas = the
epaggelias = promises,
alla = but
porroothen = afar-off
autas = them
idontes = having-seen
kai = and
aspasamenoi = embraced
kai = and
homologeesantes = likewise-said
hoti = that
xenoi = strangers
kai = and
parepideemoi = resident-foreigners
eisin = they-were
epi = upon
tees = the
gees. = Land.
14 Hoi = 14 The
gar = for
toiauta = of-such-things
legontes = sayers
emfanizousin = declare-plainly
hoti = that
patrida = a-country
epizeetousin. = they-search-for/demand/crave
15 Kai = 15 And
ei = if
men = truly
ekeinees = of-that
emneemoneuon = they-had-been-mindful
af' (api) = from
hees = where
exebeesan = they-had-stricken-out
eichon = they-have-had
an = might
kairon = an-opportunity
anakampsai; = to-have-returned;
16 nun = 16 now
de = but
kreittonos = a-stronger/better/nobler
oregontai, = they-desire,
tout' = that
estin = is
epouraniou. = a-one-above-the-sky.
Dio = Thus
ouk = not
epaischunetai = is-ashamed
autous = of-them
ho = the
Theos = God
Theos = God
epikaleisthai = to-be-called
autoon; = of-them/their;
heetoimasen = he-has-prepared
gar = for
autois = for-them
polin. = a-city
Hebrews 12:22-24
22 Alla proseleeluthate Sioon orei kai polei Theou zoontos, Ierousaleem epouranioo, kai muriasin aggeloon, paneegurei
23 kai ekkleesia proototokoon apogegrammenoon en ouranois kai Kritee Theoo pantoon kai pneumasi dikaioon teteleioomenoon
24 kai diatheekees neas Mesitee Ieesou kai haimati rantismou kreitton lalounti para ton Habel.
The Greek New Testament
22 Alla = 22 But
proseleeluthate = you-are-coming
Sioon = to-Tsiown (Zion)
orei = mountain
kai = and
polei = city
Theou = of-God
zoontos, = living,
Ierousaleem = Yerushalayim (Jerusalem)
epouranioo, = above-the-sky,
kai = and
muriasin = to-myriads
aggeloon, = of-messengers,
paneegurei = to-a-mass-meeting
23 kai = 23 and
ekkleesia = called-out-(group)
proototokoon of-first-born-children
apogegrammenoon = written-away
en = in
ouranois = (the)-sky
kai = and
Kritee = to-Judge
Theoo = God
pantoon = of-all
kai = and
pneumasi = to-spirits
dikaioon = of-justified
teteleioomenoon = completed/finished
24 kai = 24 and
diatheekees = to-covenant
neas = new
Mesitee = Mediator
Ieesou = Yeshua` (Jesus)
kai = and
haimati = to-blood
rantismou = sprinkling
kreitton = stronger/better/nobler
lalounti = that-talks
para = nearer/than
ton = that
Habel. = of-Hevel (Abel).
Furthermore, much of this book reflects exactly what one finds in the book of Revelation, chapters 21 and 22!
It truly doesn't matter who was the author of Hebrews; however, much of this book is at least in sync with the Revelation. If it wasn't written by Yochanan (John), the authors were sure on the same page!
Shalom, again, dragonfly.
I took the time to read some of the other answers, and I came to the conclusion that I should say more, if for no other reason than to bring the discussion back down to earth! Sometimes, well-meaning individuals get so "out-there" with their theories, that their ropes attached to their moorings and anchors are stretched beyond the breaking point and they fly off to La-la-land!
This is not about a contrast between the New Jerusalem and the old Jerusalem; it's about permanency! It's having a city whose foundations, once set, will never again be removed! There's no guarantee for old Jerusalem; in fact, we know from Ezekiel that the city will be rebuilt during the Millennium. However, we DO have such a guarantee concerning the New Jerusalem. Once its foundations are sunk into the New Earth, it will be permanent! Let's read the verses simply:
14 for we do not possess a permanent city here but we crave one to come!
8 By trust when Avraham (Abraham) was called, he listened as an underling to strike out into a place which he would later receive into an inheritance, and he struck out not knowing/comprehending where he was going.
9 By trust he resided as a foreigner into the Land of Promise as though it was a foreign country, dwelling in tents with YItschaq (Isaac) and Ya`aqov (Jacob), the heirs with him of the same promise;
10 for he was ready to receive that same city which has foundations whose Designer and Constructor [is] God.
...
13 According to trust, these all died away, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off and embraced [them] and likewise said that they were strangers and resident-foreigners upon the Land.
14 For the sayers of such things declare plainly that they search for/demand/crave a country.
15 And if truly they had been mindful of that from where they had stricken out, they might have had an opportunity to have returned;
16 but now they desire a stronger/better/nobler [city], that is, one from above the sky. Thus, God is not ashamed of them to be called their God; for He
has prepared for them a city.
22 But you are coming to Tsiown (Zion), mountain and city of [the] living God, Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) from above the sky, and to myriads of messengers, to a mass meeting
23 and a called-out [group] of first-born children written away in [the] sky and to God Judge of all and to [the] spirits of justified [individuals] completed/finished
24 and to Yeshua` (Jesus), Mediator of a new covenant and to sprinkling blood that talks stronger/better/nobler than that of Hevel (Abel).
Now, let's look at Revelation 21:1-22:5
Revelation 21:1-22:5
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (Greek: ek tou ouranou), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
KJV
Just to compare, here is the Greek of this passage. I won't go into the details at this time.
Revelation 21:1-22:5
21:1 Kai eidon ouranon kainon kai geen kaineen. Ho gar prootos ouranos kai hee prootee gee apeelthan kai hee thalasa ouk estin eti.
2 Kai teen polin teen hagian Ierousaleem kaineen eidon katabainousan ek tou ouranou apo tou Theou heetoimasmeneen hoos numfeen kekosmeemeneen too andri autees.
3 Kai eekousa foonees megalees ek tou thronou legousees: "Idou hee skeenee tou Theou meta toon anthroopoon, kai skeenoosei met' autoon, kai autoi laoi autou esontai, kai autos ho Theos met' autoon estai [autoon Theos],
4 kai exaleipsei pan dakruon ek toon ofthalmoon autoon, kai ho thanatos ouk estai eti oute penthos oute kraugee oute ponos ouk etai eti, [hoti] ta proota apeelthan."
5 Kai ripen ho Katheemenos epi too thronoo, "Idou kaina poioo panta." Kai legei, "Grapson, hoti houtoi hoi logoi pistoi kai aleethinoi eisin."
6 Kai eipen moi, "Gegonan; Ego [eimi] to Alfa kai to Oo, hee Archee kai to Telos. Egoo too dipsoonti doosoo ek tees peegees tou Hudatos tees Zooees doorean.
7 Ho nikoon kleeronomeesei tauta kai esomai autoo Theos kai autos estai moi huios.
8 Tois de deilois kai apistois kai ebdelugmenois kai foneusin kai pornois kai farmakois kai eidoololatrais kai pasin tois pseudesin to meros autoon en tee limnee tee kaiomenee puri kai theioo, ho estin ho Thanatos ho Deuteros."
9 Kai eel then sis ek toon hepta aggeloon toon echontoon tas hepta fialas, toon gemontoon too hepta pleegoon toon eschatoon kai elaleesen met' emou legoon, "Deuro, deixoo soi teen numfeen teen gunaika tou Arniou."
10 Kai apeenegken me en pneumati epi oros mega kai hupseelon, kai edeixen moi teen polin teen hagian Ierousaleem katabainousan ek tou ouranou apo tou Theou
11 echousan teen doxan tou Theou ho foosteer autees homoios lithoo timiootatoo hoos lithoo iaspidi krustallizonti.
12 Echousa teichos mega kai hupseelon, echousa puloonas doodeka kai epi tois puloosin aggelous doodeka kai onomata epigegrammena, ha estin [ta onomata] toon doodeka fuloon huioon Israeel:
13 api anatolees puloones treis kai apo borra puloones treis kai apo notou puloones treis kai apo dusmoon puloones treis.
14 Kai to teichos tees poles echoon themelious doodeka kai ep' autoon doodeka onomata too doodeka apostoloon tou Arniou.
15 Kai ho laloon met' emou eichen metron kalamon chrusoun hina metreesee teen polin kai tous puloonas autees kai to teichos autees.
16 Kai hee polis tetragoonos keitai kai to meekos autees hoson [kai] to platos. Kai emetreesen teen polin tou kalamoo epi stadioon doodeka chiliadoon, to meekos kai to platos kai to hupsos autees isa estin.
17 Kai emetreesen to teichos autees hekaton tessarakonta tessaroon peechoon metron anthroopou ho estin aggelou.
18 Kai hee endoomeesis tou teichous autees iaspis kai hee polis chrusion katharon homoion hualoo katharoo.
19 Hoi themelioi tou teichous tees poleoos pant lithoo timioo kekosmeemenoi ho themelios ho prootos iaspis, ho deuteros sapfiros, ho tritos chalkeedoon, ho tetartos smaragdos,
20 ho pemptos sardonux, ho hektos sartino, ho hebdomos chrusolithos, ho ogdoos beerullos, ho enatos topazio, ho dekatos chrusoprasos, ho hendekatos huakinthos, ho doodekatos amethustos,
21 kai hoi doodeka puloones doodeka margaritai ana heis hekastos toon puloonoon een ex henos margaritou. Kai hee plateia tees poleoos chrusion katharon hoos hualos diaugees.
22 Kai naon ouk eidon en autee, ho gar Kurios ho Theos ho Pantokratoor naos autees estin kai to Arnion.
23 Kai hee polis ou chreian echei tou heeliou oude tees seleenees hina fainoosin autee, hee gar doxa tou Tehous efootisen auteen, kai ho luchnos autees to Arnion.
24 Kai peripateesousin ta ethnee dia tou footos autees, kai hoi basileis tees gees ferousin teen doxan autoon eis auteen,
25 kai hoi puloones autees ou mee kleisthoosin heemeras, nux gar ouk estai ekei,
26 kai oisousin teen doxan kai ten timeen toon ethnoon eis auteen.
27 Kai ou mee eiselthee eis auteen pan koinon kai [ho] poioon bdelugma kai pseudos ei mee hoi gegrammenoi en too Biblioo tees Zooees tou Arniou.
22:1 Kai edeixen moi potamon hudatos zooees lampron hoos krustallon, ekporeuomenon ek tou thronou tou Theou kai tou Arniou.
2 En mesoo tees plateias autees kai tou potamou enteuthen kai ekeithen Xulon Zooees poioun karpous doodeka, kata meena hekaston apodidoun ton karpon autou kai ta fulla tou xulou eis therapeian toon ethnoon.
3 Kai pan katathema ouk estai eti. Kai ho thronos tou Theou kai tou Arniou en autee estai, kai hoi douloi autou latreusousin autoo
4 kai opsontai to prosoopon autou, kai to onoma autou epi toon metoopoon autoon.
5 Kai nux ouk estai eti kai ouk echousin chreian footos luchnou kai footos heeliou, hoti Kurios ho Theos footisei ep' autous kai basileusousin eis tous aioonas toon aioonoon.
The Greek New Testament
Avraham looked for a city with foundations (Hebrews 11:10; Greek:
themelioi) and the New Jerusalem will have just that, twelve foundations (Revelation 21:14, 19; Greek:
themelioi). Although you might not see it in English, this information is found in the fact that it wasn't until after Avraham gave tithes to Malkhiy-Tsedeq (Melchizedek) that he called YHWH "Adonai," which means a "foundation-setter."