No Escape : From Hell

[BreadOfLife]

There’s that word again “heresy”......a Catholic favorite, which basically means anything other that what Catholicism teaches....no matter that most of their doctrines find no place in Christ’s teachings at all.

Yup – I call’em as I see’em . . .

If you think Christianity was not corrupted, then you are fully indoctrinated with Catholic heresy.

Corrupt PEOPLE (weeds) exist within the Church, as Jesus warned (Matt. 12:24-30).
Christ’s Church was never “Destroyed” as YOU falsely and heretically asserted.

And his “church” never was remotely connected to Catholicism

Whether is was or wasn’t is totally irrelevant to YOUR statement that the Catholic Church DESTROYED Christianity.

ALL of this diversion STILL doesn’t explain why YOU claim Jesus is a LIAR by contradicting His words in Matt. 16:18.
Will you repent of this?

....it was taken over by the “weeds” that Christ and the apostles foretold, but the “wheat” were still there among them, courageously defending the truth at the cost of their lives.

You are DEAD WRONG.

Neither Jesus nor the Apostles ever said that the Weeds would “take over” the Church. He said the Weeds would coexist among the Wheat – and that they would be collected separately at the Harvest.

Your understanding of Christ’s Parables is one of ignorance and confusion . . .

How about you “own up” to the disgraceful history of your unchristian church. You cannot undo what is recorded in history.

Oh, you mean like the false prophecies of the Watchtower?

This “falling away” from the faith began at the close of the first century, so, by the time that Roman Catholicism became the state religion of the Empire, (over 300 years later) the rot had well and truly set in.

Ummm we were talking about the validity of Sola Scriptura – NOT your insane hatred of the Catholic Church.

Try ADDRESSING the matter being discussed.
Show me the Biblical proof for Sola Scriptura.

He said this to Peter whom you believe was the first pope.

He ALSO said it to the rest of the Apostles (Matt. 18:18), who were the first leaders of the Church.

...there were no popes in original Christianity

The term, “Pope” is not an official title, but a term of endearment.
It just means “Papa”. The office, however, was bestowed upon Peter (Matt. 16:18).

...nor were there priests

Tell me – WHY does Paul consider himself a priest, performing priestly duties to the Gentiles?
In Rom 15:16, He uses the term hee-er-oorg-eh'-o to describe his priestly duties.

 

[BreadOfLife]

continued . . .

What good news has ever come out of the Catholic Church?

Ummm THE Good News.
Your utter ignorance exposes you again . . .

It was the Catholic Church that gave the Canon of Scripture to the world under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit – just as Jesus promised (John 16:12-15).

YOU wouldn’t even have a Bible had it NOT been for the Catholic Church . . .

Where did the idea of a fiery hell originate?

From the Word of GOD . . .
(Isa. 33:11, 14, Matt. 25:31-34, 41, 46, Mark 9:47–48, Luke 3:16-17, 2 Thess. 1:6-9)

ALL of this diversion STILL doesn’t explain why YOU claim Jesus is a LIAR by contradicting His words in Matt. 16:18.
Will you repent of this?

The “Rock” upon which “the church” was built was Jesus, not Peter. So your whole foundation crumbles.
Peter was told to “feed” Jesus’ sheep, and his words are by no means those of a man elevated above his fellow apostles.

Jesus left Peter in charge . . .

- Jesus singled out Peter when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19).
- Jesus asked Peter and Peter alone to feed His lambs and tend His sheep (John 21:15-19).
- Jesus said that He prayed for Peter ALONE to strengthen the others and bring them back to faith (Luke 22:31-32).
- Peter called "Protos" (First) in the Gospel (Matt. 10:2).
- Peter's name occurs first in all lists of apostles (Matt. 10:2; Mk 3:16; Luke 6:14; Acts 1:13).
- Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the apostles (Mark 16:7).
- Peter takes the lead in calling for a successor for Judas (Acts 1:22).
- Peter is the first person to speak (and only one recorded) after Pentecost, making him the first Christian to preach the Gospel in the Church (Acts 2:14-36) .
- Peter works the first miracle of the Church Age, healing a lame man (Acts 3:6-12).
- Peter utters the first anathema (Ananias and Sapphira) affirmed by God (Acts 5:2-11).
- Peter is the first person after Christ to raise the dead (Acts 9:40).
- Cornelius is told by an angel to seek out Peter for instruction in Christianity (Acts 10:1-6).
- Peter's name is mentioned more often than ALL the other disciples combined.

“All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17  so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.”

What more was needed? Not good enough for the Romans.....only the Roman Catholic Church departs from Scripture so completely.

Is THIS supposed to be a defense of the 16th century Protestant invention that is Sola Scriptura??

ALL it says is that Scripture is USEFUL for teaching, reproval, etc. It never says that it is sufficient or ALL we need. Learn the difference . . .

Tell me -
WHERE does it say the Scripture is our SOLE Authority??
WHERE does it say the Church has NO Authority??

Matt 15:7-9....
“You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9  It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’”

“But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. 9  Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. 10  Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. 11  But the greatest one among you must be your minister.” (Matt 23:8-11)

These words apply also you your church. How many doctrines do you accept as truth that find no place whatsoever in God’s word.....what do you call the pope? “Holy Father”?.......how convenient that you reject “sola scriptura” because if you didn’t, nothing you are taught as truth, actually is....it is all invented or adopted by your church so long ago that it is now set in concrete for those whose eyes are fully blinded to the truth. (2 Cor 4:3-4)

This is a PERFECT example of your ignorance of Scripture. It demonstrated precisely why you are LOST in the Kingdom of the Cults.

Time for a Bible Lesson . . .

Using hyperbole in Matt. 23:9, Jesus commands the crowd to call NO man, “Father”. In the verse that precedes this (Matt: 23:8), Jesus tells us NOT to call people “Teachers”. Is Jesus telling us that we can’t call certain people "fathers" or “teachers” when they may actually be fathers or teachers? Absolutely NOT. He is telling us that no man is to be considered father above our Father in heaven and no person is to be considered teacher above our Teacher in heaven.

Jesus was speaking about the Scribes and Pharisees who exalted themselves before all: “They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation 'Rabbi.”(Matt 23:6-7).

Consider the following passages:
- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).

- Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).

- Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).

- Paul stated, “For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

- Paul wrote, "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).

- Paul proclaimed, "God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28).

- Paul wrote, "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).

Your heart is filled with too much hatred to properly understand the Word of God . . .

 

[Aunty Jane]

Corrupt PEOPLE (weeds) exist within the Church, as Jesus warned (Matt. 12:24-30).
Christ’s Church was never “Destroyed” as YOU falsely and heretically asserted.

If you study what Jesus said carefully, and understand what the “weeds” actually were, it becomes crystal clear.
The “weed” that Jesus spoke about was a noxious plant called “Bearded Darnell” and it was common in the Middle East as a blight to wheat farmers, earning the nickname “wheat’s evil twin”. Why? Because in the early growing stages, you couldn’t tell one from the other, so farmers were not aware of the “weeds” growing in amongst the “wheat” until later stages identified the weed....but by then it was too late, as the root systems were now intertwined and it was impossible to pull up the weeds without taking the wheat with them.
The farmer had no option but to wait until the harvest of all the plants, so that the weeds would be gathered out first and burned, and then the wheat were placed in the farmer’s storehouse.

As an act of sabotage, an enemy would sow his neighbor’s crop with this weed to reduce his yield and cause him loss....satan the devil had the same motive.

He instituted a fake “Christian” church by watering down what Christ taught, especially after the death of the apostles when they were acting as a restraint until the last books of the Bible were penned by the apostle John at the close of the first century.
After that, the way for these weeds to to grow and spread with the ‘fertilizer’ that they were fed spread, so that by the 4th century, the time was ripe for that Roman takeover by a very astute politician who was not a Christian himself, but who saw a way to consolidate his divided empire under one state mandated religion. A religion that was a fusion of pagan Roman sun worship and weakened, watered down Christianity. That is the Roman Catholic Church....which you defend most ardently. He had something to appeal to all his subjects as this new religion contained aspects that were acceptable to all.....pagan celebrations were given a “Christian” title so that no one missed out on worshipping a god that the church invented. Trouble was, he did not resemble the God of Jesus Christ at all.

ALL of this diversion STILL doesn’t explain why YOU claim Jesus is a LIAR by contradicting His words in Matt. 16:18.
Will you repent of this?

You are still blind to the fact that your precious Catholic Faith is a sham, and has been from the beginning.....it never was Christ’a church. Jesus wasn’t a liar...the church was a fake.

Neither Jesus nor the Apostles ever said that the Weeds would “take over” the Church. He said the Weeds would coexist among the Wheat – and that they would be collected separately at the Harvest.

Your understanding of Christ’s Parables is one of ignorance and confusion . . .

My understanding is based on thorough research. There is no ignorance or confusion outside of Christendom’s confused and divided church system, which is all based on a Roman Catholic foundation.
When the ‘daughters’ left their immoral ‘mother’, they took most of her dirty laundry with them....

 

[Aunty Jane]

Oh, you mean like the false prophecies of the Watchtower?

There has only been one prophesy and the timing was the only thing we got wrong, but since the apostles made the same mistake, (Acts 1:6) it only goes to show how foolish it is to put a time limit on the prophesies that God has placed in his word and in his own jurisdiction. At one point Jesus said that even he didn’t know the day or the hour.....(Matt 24:37-39)

Try ADDRESSING the matter being discussed.
Show me the Biblical proof for Sola Scriptura.

I already did, but you aren’t listening....Scripture was used by Jesus and his apostles all through their ministry. The Jews had the law of Moses and the Christians had the teachings of Jesus Christ....all that he taught for both eras, was recorded for our benefit...so what more was needed?

He ALSO said it to the rest of the Apostles (Matt. 18:18), who were the first leaders of the Church.

Which means that Peter was not so special that he was elevated above his brother apostles.
Those who were leaders of the church in the first century were the elders in Jerusalem as well as the apostles. It was they who sorted out any problems using Scripture and prayer to do so.

The term, “Pope” is not an official title, but a term of endearment.
It just means “Papa”. The office, however, was bestowed upon Peter (Matt. 16:18).

It’s not a position that Jesus ever spoke about since we are not to call anyone our Father on earth. He was talking about someone who might be referred to as “Holy Father” or “the Pontiff” which we know is a shortened form of the title “Pontifex Maximus”...a pagan Roman title.

When Constantine defeated his last remaining rival, Licinius, and became the undisputed ruler of the Roman world in 325 C.E., the yet unbaptized Emperor, presided over the first great ecumenical council of the “Christian” church, which condemned Arianism and drew up a statement of essential beliefs called the Nicene Creed.

Constantine fell terminally ill in the year 337 C.E. At that late hour of his life, he was baptized, and then he died. After his death the Senate placed him among the Roman gods.
This is history...not story telling.

Ummm THE Good News.
Your utter ignorance exposes you again . . .

It was the Catholic Church that gave the Canon of Scripture to the world under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit – just as Jesus promised (John 16:12-15).

YOU wouldn’t even have a Bible had it NOT been for the Catholic Church . . .

Oh dear....whose word is it again? How many Catholic writers were there? Not a word was written by a Catholic, but the church was used to compile it even though it withheld the Bible from the common people for centuries, pretending to be its custodians, when in actual fact they used the ignorance that they created to lead the people down a very dark path. Presenting them with doctrines and rituals that were far removed from what Christ taught....and still are.

Who were in the world claiming to be THE Church of Christ, when no one else was game enough to challenge them? If it was God’s time to bring his word back into the hands of the people, he was going to use whomever he wanted to do that. He had used his enemies to accomplish his will in the past, and apparently he did so again. You take credit for what is not yours....and never was.

 

[TazzJazz]

Corrupt PEOPLE (weeds) exist within the Church, as Jesus warned (Matt. 12:24-30).

I would say that engaging in the slaughter of people, is about as corrupt as a person - or organization - can be!
Especially heinous are religious organizations purporting to follow Christ, yet joining the world [John 15:19] & killing their spiritual brothers in its conflicts! -- John 13:34; John 15:12,17; Matthew 5:44.
Such activity is a BIG "spot from the world" [James 1:27], don't you think? Now, just what is the reputation of Catholicism in this regard? (And most of Protestantism, too?)

This is one very good way, IMO, in determining who are part of the "weeds".

 

[TazzJazz]

....everlasting destruction....

Yes...."everlasting destruction". Not torment.

Even Matthew 10:28 says "destroy soul and body".
And the Greek word is not Hades (which is translated hell); its Gehenna, another meaning entirely.

What did Paul mean at Romans 6:7, "He that has died is freed from sin"?

@Marvelloustime
@amigo de christo

 

[Jack]

Yes...."everlasting destruction". Not torment.

Even Matthew 10:28 says "destroy soul and body".
And the Greek word is not Hades (which is translated hell); its Gehenna, another meaning entirely.

What did Paul mean at Romans 6:7, "He that has died is freed from sin"?

@Marvelloustime
@amigo de christo

Oh gee, another self professed Greek expert. JW maybe?

 

[Aunty Jane]

From the Word of GOD . . .
(Isa. 33:11, 14, Matt. 25:31-34, 41, 46, Mark 9:47–48, Luke 3:16-17, 2 Thess. 1:6-9)

ALL of this diversion STILL doesn’t explain why YOU claim Jesus is a LIAR by contradicting His words in Matt. 16:18.
Will you repent of this?

I never said Jesus was a liar.....I said that Christianity was destroyed by the Catholic church...but it was already on its way.....Christendom was just the finished product.

Jesus left Peter in charge . . .

Peter had an assignment that did not elevate him above the others as you already showed. All had equal status as Jesus said....not to be called by titles that made them appear to have authority over others, because they were all “brothers”. (1 Peter 5:1-3)

ALL it says is that Scripture is USEFUL for teaching, reproval, etc. It never says that it is sufficient or ALL we need. Learn the difference . . .

You are adding your own convenient slant to Paul’s words. Scripture was the measuring line for all things.

Tell me -
WHERE does it say the Scripture is our SOLE Authority??
WHERE does it say the Church has NO Authority??

The church had authority only in what Christ gave it....and that was to teach the truth of God’s word and to keep unchristian conduct out of the congregation. History attests to the fact that Catholic Institutions all over the world were those guilty of heinous crimes....especially against children.
Mother and baby homes were riddled with neglect and privation by Catholic nuns and priests. It’s is all coming to light as the Catholic Church cannot stop the groundswell of those coming forward to report their stories. It goes so far back, giving us insight into what life was like for both unmarried mothers and their babies....taken from them and adopted out for a fee given to the church.

Time for a Bible Lesson . . .

You make me laugh.....no Catholic can give anyone a Bible lesson. Don’t get me started....

Using hyperbole in Matt. 23:9, Jesus commands the crowd to call NO man, “Father”. In the verse that precedes this (Matt: 23:8), Jesus tells us NOT to call people “Teachers”. Is Jesus telling us that we can’t call certain people "fathers" or “teachers” when they may actually be fathers or teachers? Absolutely NOT. He is telling us that no man is to be considered father above our Father in heaven and no person is to be considered teacher above our Teacher in heaven.

Jesus was speaking about the Scribes and Pharisees who exalted themselves before all: “They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation 'Rabbi.”(Matt 23:6-7).

And what is the title given to men in their fancy robes and hats that had no place in original Christianity...?
Would they not all be addressed as “Father”…..or in this case “holy father”?


Where will I find Jesus and his apostles dressed like this? If the son of God had to be identified with a kiss, my guess is that he was dressed like everyone else. Would you pick this guy out in a crowd?

Where did this come from? I’ll give you a clue.....
It wasn’t from the Christian Scriptures….or any kind of clothing that Christ wore.

- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).

- Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).

- Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).

- Paul stated, “For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

Look up the word “father” in a Concordance.....
The word is defined as....

“generator or male ancestor

1. either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents
2. a more remote ancestor, the founder of a family or tribe, progenitor of a people, forefather: so Abraham is called, Jacob and David
   1. fathers i.e. ancestors, forefathers, founders of a nation”

So Abraham was rightly addressed as the “Father” of the nation of Israel.
Jesus also was described as a “father” in the sense of being “the founder of a people”....but not in competition with his own God and Father.
That is a long way from how the pope is addressed...almost as he he were Christ in fancy dress, surrounded by others in fancy dress.....how do you not see the departure?.....it is so complete!

Where does Christ fit in here? The simple fact is…he doesn’t.

Your heart is filled with too much hatred to properly understand the Word of God . . .

What I hate is falsehood, just as God hates it...false worship is an abomination to him....and yet the majority will go down claiming that it was their truth.....the devil’s counterfeit will claim the “many” whilst the “few” will be drawn to God’s truth, (John 6:44; 65) against the tide, hated by the majority but standing firm for what is real truth amid the multitude of lies. (Matt 7:13-14, 21-23; John 15:18-21)

 

[Jack]

I never said Jesus was a liar....

You said Jesus' warnings of Hell fire are Satanic! Remember?

Basic JW doctrine: 'The Bible doesn't mean what it says. It means what WE say.'

 

[TazzJazz]

Oh gee, another self professed Greek expert. JW maybe?

I didn't profess anything. I just said "destroy / destruction" is not torment.
And you don't have to be an expert to learn some Greek words and their meanings.


Again, my question was: "What did Paul mean at Romans 6:7, "He that has died is freed from sin"?"

if you don't know, that's OK; just say so.

Goodnight.

 

[Jack]

Basic JW doctrine: 'The Bible doesn't mean what it says. It means what WE say.'

I didn't profess anything. I just said "destroy / destruction" is not torment.
And you don't have to be an expert to learn some Greek words and their meanings.

Again, my question was: "What did Paul mean at Romans 6:7, "He that has died is freed from sin"?"

if you don't know, that's OK; just say so.

Goodnight.

Then why does every English Bible prove you're wrong?

You didn't deny being JW!

 

[Jack]

Satan LOVES it when his messengers convince people there is no eternal Hell Fire!

 

[amigo de christo]

I didn't profess anything. I just said "destroy / destruction" is not torment.
And you don't have to be an expert to learn some Greek words and their meanings.


Again, my question was: "What did Paul mean at Romans 6:7, "He that has died is freed from sin"?"

if you don't know, that's OK; just say so.

Goodnight.

Read romans six six and look at the summation of it in verse twelve .
Its all about Being dead to sin
Yet many sure seem to be very alive to sin and living in sin . The old man is alive and in big time operation amongst many .
SO allow these words that both paul and in even peters letter they sum something up .
That Christ took on our sins ,
that we being made dead to sin should live unto righteouness .
DO NOT LET SIN therefore reign in your mortal bodies .
Yet i see many honoring sins , honoring blasphemy
They are dead while they live in sin .
Many serve the flesh and yet just as i once did they can lip the name of JESUS CHRIST .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes...."everlasting destruction". Not torment.

Even Matthew 10:28 says "destroy soul and body".
And the Greek word is not Hades (which is translated hell); its Gehenna, another meaning entirely.

What did Paul mean at Romans 6:7, "He that has died is freed from sin"?

@Marvelloustime
@amigo de christo

If a man believes in me though he were dead yet shall he live
and he who lives and beleives in me shall NEVER DIE .

I AM the RESSURECTION and the LIFE .
Those whose faith be in HIM shall never die .
For as all in adam die
even so shall all in Christ be made alive . THERE is only the second death that awaits those who rejected Christ .
SO lets keep that in mind the next time one tries to preach a love that entails its okay if one beleived not .
CAUSE THEY LIE and even if they can claim to beleive the gospel
THEY DO NOT , for had they believed the gosple they had not then said ITS Okay if one believes not
as they hug muslims , kiss korans , buddists and claim we all ser ving GOD differently . THERE IS the work of anti christ
and yet many thnks its broad path is love .

 

[amigo de christo]

I would say that engaging in the slaughter of people, is about as corrupt as a person - or organization - can be!
Especially heinous are religious organizations purporting to follow Christ, yet joining the world [John 15:19] & killing their spiritual brothers in its conflicts! -- John 13:34; John 15:12,17; Matthew 5:44.
Such activity is a BIG "spot from the world" [James 1:27], don't you think? Now, just what is the reputation of Catholicism in this regard? (And most of Protestantism, too?)

This is one very good way, IMO, in determining who are part of the "weeds".

Soon , when this ecumincal interfaith harlot has ran her ecumincal course
and denomnations and false religoins do merge
THEN COMETH THE GREAT CRUSADES to scourge .
And yet most folks in some form , shape , or fashion
are already under her ecumincal unity lovey do move .
SOON they will cast out the true brethren ,
SOON the crusades will begin and blood will come against all who conformed not to a harlots love
her bridge building call , her finding common ground call .
And most folks just love this big ol broad path sin accepting lovey do call of hers . JESUS been TROD UNDER FOOT
Well the crusades against the true sheep will commence in time .
And when they come against the true sheep
THEY WILL T RUL Y beleive they do the will OF GOD as they cast these haters of humanity out .
Yeah , SO watch out
cause even the watchtower as many other places now coax all into her web . Folks are being fleeced .

 

[David Lamb]

I didn't profess anything. I just said "destroy / destruction" is not torment.
And you don't have to be an expert to learn some Greek words and their meanings.

Yet in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, they both died. Lazarus is described as being "in Abraham's bosom." The rich man is in a place of torment:

“19 ¶ “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 “But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 “desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 “So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 “And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 “But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 ‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’ 27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 ‘for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 “And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 “But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”” (Lu 16:19-31 NKJV)

Four times torment or torments is mentioned.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I never said Jesus was a liar.....I said that Christianity was destroyed by the Catholic church...but it was already on its way.....Christendom was just the finished product.

That is the very SAME thing as calling Him a “LIAR”.
Jesus promised that this would NEVER happen (Matt. 16:18).

Peter had an assignment that did not elevate him above the others as you already showed. All had equal status as Jesus said....not to be called by titles that made them appear to have authority over others, because they were all “brothers”. (1 Peter 5:1-3)

Then tell me WHY Jesus singled out Peter when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven
Tell me WHY Jesus said that He prayed for Peter ALONE to strengthen the others and bring them back to faith
Tell me WHY Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the Apostles
Tell me WHY Cornelius is told by an angel to seek out Peter for instruction in Christianity

Give me some solid Biblical arguments . . .

You are adding your own convenient slant to Paul’s words. Scripture was the measuring line for all things.

Now, WHO’S adding to Paul’s words?? He never makes this claim in 2 Tim. 3:16.

The Greek word used here is οπηελιμοσ (o-fel'-ee-mos), which means:
“Profitable”, “helpful” or “serviceable.”
What it does NOT mean is “sufficient” or “all that is necessary”.

The Bible itself says that Scripture is USEFUL – not our SOLE Authority.
The Bible says that the CHURCH is also Authoritative and speaks for God (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15).

The church had authority only in what Christ gave it....and that was to teach the truth of God’s word and to keep unchristian conduct out of the congregation.

- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).

Jesus is over ALL - and can’t be destroyed . . .

History attests to the fact that Catholic Institutions all over the world were those guilty of heinous crimes....especially against children.

And that small percentage of corrupt people will be judged harshly.
But, never think that these crimes were institutionally mandated.

You make me laugh.....no Catholic can give anyone a Bible lesson. Don’t get me started....

I just DID . . .

And what is the title given to men in their fancy robes and hats that had no place in original Christianity...?
Would they not all be addressed as “Father”…..or in this case “holy father”?

Do I have to keep repeating my Biblical evidence? You obviously have trouble understanding.
Read S-L-O-W-L-Y . . .

- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
- Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
- Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
- Paul proclaims, “For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

Where will I find Jesus and his apostles dressed like this? If the son of God had to be identified with a kiss, my guess is that he was dressed like everyone else. Would you pick this guy out in a crowd?

Where did this come from? I’ll give you a clue.....
It wasn’t from the Christian Scriptures….or any kind of clothing that Christ wore.

Don’t you EVER get tired of beiong wrong??

Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, and 19:13-14 tell us about priests wearing special vestments in the heavenly liturgy. Here on earth, Catholic priests also wear liturgical vestments when celebrating Mass.

Look up the word “father” in a Concordance.....
The word is defined as....

“generator or male ancestor

Then what do you do with Paul’s comment in 1 Cor. 4??

1 Cor. 4:15
“For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel".

It doesn’t mean generator OR male ancestor. He is referring to himself as a SPIRITUAL Father.
THIS is how Catholic priests are addressed.

Anyway, YOUR original argument was that NOBODY is to be called, “Father”.
I just gave you FOUR Biblical verses that prove you WRONG . . .

What I hate is falsehood, just as God hates it

Then, WHY do you swallow all of the FALSE prophecies of your cult??
Nothing like good, old-fashion hypocrisy . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

He instituted a fake “Christian” church by watering down what Christ taught, especially after the death of the apostles when they were acting as a restraint until the last books of the Bible were penned by the apostle John at the close of the first century.

Onge again – you are contradicting Jesus Christ.

Whereas, he DID warn of “weeds” and false prophets – he guaranteed that His Church would NEVER succumb to darkness (Matt. 16:18). Whether or NOT you perceive that Church to be the Catholic Church – you STILL made a heretical statement by claiming that the Church was “Destroyed”.

Whatever the case - YOUR cult wasn’t invented until the 19th century.

After that, the way for these weeds to to grow and spread with the ‘fertilizer’ that they were fed spread, so that by the 4th century, the time was ripe for that Roman takeover by a very astute politician who was not a Christian himself, but who saw a way to consolidate his divided empire under one state mandated religion.

WRONG.
Time for a History Lesson . . .

While Constantine wasn’t Baptized until he was near death – his mother St. Helena certainly WAS. She is responsible for not only finding some of the sacred sites of the life of Christ – she brought MANY relics of Christ back to Rome for preservation.
THIS factored heavily on why Constantine legalized Christianity after putting an end to the Roman Persecutions.

If you actually studied Church History instead of blindly falling into a cult – you might not have been such easy prey for these wolves . . .

A religion that was a fusion of pagan Roman sun worship and weakened, watered down Christianity. That is the Roman Catholic Church....which you defend most ardently. He had something to appeal to all his subjects as this new religion contained aspects that were acceptable to all.....pagan celebrations were given a “Christian” title so that no one missed out on worshipping a god that the church invented. Trouble was, he did not resemble the God of Jesus Christ at all.

First of all – there is no such thing as “The Roman Catholic Church”. It is “The Catholic Church”.

“Roman” or “Latin” simply refers to the Liturgical Rite – of which there are some twenty that comprise the ONE Catholic Church. There is also the Melkite Rite, the Maronite, Byzantine, Coptic, etc. These are largely cultural and are united doctrinally. So, when YOU say, “Roman Catholic” – you’re only referring to ONE of those Liturgical Rites.

A religion that was a fusion of pagan Roman sun worship and weakened, watered down Christianity....which you defend most ardently. He had something to appeal to all his subjects as this new religion contained aspects that were acceptable to all.....pagan celebrations were given a “Christian” title so that no one missed out on worshipping a god that the church invented. Trouble was, he did not resemble the God of Jesus Christ at all.

Any pagan holiday that was appropriated by Christianity has been LONG forgotten.
That was the whole point, Einstein – replacing paganism with Christianity.

That’s why there is a pagan obelisk in Vatican square. At the TOP of this structure, there is a CROSS that symbolizes the VICTORY of the cross over paganism.

You are still blind to the fact that your precious Catholic Faith is a sham, and has been from the beginning.....it never was Christ’a church. Jesus wasn’t a liar...the church was a fake.

YOU said that the Catholic Church destroyed the “the Church”.
This is tantamount to saying that Jesus is a LIAR because NOTHING can destroy His Church.

My understanding is based on thorough research. There is no ignorance or confusion outside of Christendom’s confused and divided church system, which is all based on a Roman Catholic foundation.
When the ‘daughters’ left their immoral ‘mother’, they took most of her dirty laundry with them....

WRONG.

YOUR understanding of God’s Word is based on the perversions of the Jehovah’s Witness cult.
Do you even know the History of your sect? You know that it was invented some 1850 years AFTER the Apostles by a man named Charles Taze Russell in 1874, don’t you??

All it takes is ONE false prophecy to make a counterfeit sect - and the JW’s are loaded with them.
Here are just a FEW of your wacky cult’s FALSE prophecies . . .

1874 – Date for Christ’s “invisible presence” changed to 1914
1914 – End of the world
1915 – Replaced 1914 for the end of the world
1918 – End of the world, destruction of churches
1925 – End of the world with the return of Abraham, Issac & Jacob
1929 – “Beth Sarim” House of Princes built in San Diego for the “soon” return of king David and prophets.
1940’s – End of the World would come with the “soon” battle of Armageddon

WAKE UP . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

There has only been one prophesy and the timing was the only thing we got wrong, but since the apostles made the same mistake, (Acts 1:6) it only goes to show how foolish it is to put a time limit on the prophesies that God has placed in his word and in his own jurisdiction. At one point Jesus said that even he didn’t know the day or the hour.....(Matt 24:37-39)

It only takes ONE false prophecy to make a FALSE church.

As for the Apostles in Acts 1:6 – they didn’t falsely prophesy ANYTHING.
They merely asked Jesus a question:

Acts 1:6
Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

YOUR cult has made MANY false prophecies.
Here are but a FEW . . .
1889 - "The ‘battle of the great day of God almighty’ (Rev 16:14) which will end in AD 1914 . . . " (Studies, Vol. 2, 1908 edition, 101).
1891 - "With the end of AD 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown from prophecy" (Studies, Vol. 3, 153).
1918 - "Therefore, we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the faithful prophets of old" (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 89).
1941 - "Armageddon is surely near . . . soon . . . within a few years" (Children, 10).

I already did, but you aren’t listening....Scripture was used by Jesus and his apostles all through their ministry. The Jews had the law of Moses and the Christians had the teachings of Jesus Christ....all that he taught for both eras, was recorded for our benefit...so what more was needed?

Sola Scriptura is the Protestant invention which posits that the Bible – and the bible ALONE is our SOLE Authority. However – the Bible itself doesn’t support this false doctrine.
YOU have yet to prove this – or to show me ANY Biblical support for it.

Jesus and the Apostles indeed used Scripture for teaching.
They ALSO used Tradition . . .

Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the Apostles relied upon oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is NOT recorded in the Old Testament.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is NOT recorded in the Old Testament. See Exod. 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

2 Timothy 3:8 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION when speaking of Pharoah’s magicians, Jannes and Jambres. Their names are NOT recorded in the Old Testament.

Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is NOT recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with Satan over Moses' body. This is NOT found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is NOT recorded in the Old Testament.

Which means that Peter was not so special that he was elevated above his brother apostles.
Those who were leaders of the church in the first century were the elders in Jerusalem as well as the apostles. It was they who sorted out any problems using Scripture and prayer to do so.

I already gave you a long list of Biblical reasons for Peter’s Primacy.
Among them are –
- Jesus singled out Peter when He gave him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19).
- Jesus asked Peter and Peter alone to feed His lambs and tend His sheep (John 21:15-19).
- Jesus said that He prayed for Peter ALONE to strengthen the others and bring them back to faith (Luke 22:31-32).
- Peter called "Protos" (First) in the Gospel (Matt. 10:2).
- Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the apostles (Mark 16:7).
- Peter takes the lead in calling for a successor for Judas (Acts 1:22).
- Peter utters the first anathema (Ananias and Sapphira) affirmed by God (Acts 5:2-11).
- Peter is the first person after Christ to raise the dead (Acts 9:40).
- Cornelius is told by an angel to seek out Peter for instruction in Christianity (Acts 10:1-6).

It’s not a position that Jesus ever spoke about since we are not to call anyone our Father on earth. He was talking about someone who might be referred to as “Holy Father” or “the Pontiff” which we know is a shortened form of the title “Pontifex Maximus”...a pagan Roman title.

First of all – “Pontifex Maximus” simply means “Great Bridge Builder”.

As to your reference to Matt. 23:9 – you are WRONG again.
Jesus was speaking about the Scribes and Pharisees who exalted themselves before all (Matt 23:6-7).
Consider the following passages:
- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
- Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
- Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
- Paul proclaims, “For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

Learn how to read Scripture in CONTEXT . . .

When Constantine defeated his last remaining rival, Licinius, and became the undisputed ruler of the Roman world in 325 C.E., the yet unbaptized Emperor, presided over the first great ecumenical council of the “Christian” church, which condemned Arianism and drew up a statement of essential beliefs called the Nicene Creed.

WRONG.
While Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea – he had NO part in its proceedings.

Constantine fell terminally ill in the year 337 C.E. At that late hour of his life, he was baptized, and then he died. After his death the Senate placed him among the Roman gods.
This is history...not story telling.

Whatever the pagan senate did in Constantine’s absence after his death has NO bearing on his soul – NOR does it reflect upon the Catholic Church. If my secular friends decide to declare me a “god” after my death – it wouldn’t affect MY soul one scintilla.

So much for your nonsense . . .

Oh dear....whose word is it again? How many Catholic writers were there? Not a word was written by a Catholic, but the church was used to compile it

Jusus promised the leaders of His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide them to ALL truth.
When that Church compiled and declared the Canon in the 4th century – THIS was the a fulfillment of that promise.

Jesus DIDN’T make this promise to his enemies – but to His CHURCH.
He certainly didn’t make it to YOUR JW cult . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

continued . . .

...even though it withheld the Bible from the common people for centuries, pretending to be its custodians, when in actual fact they used the ignorance that they created to lead the people down a very dark path. Presenting them with doctrines and rituals that were far removed from what Christ taught....and still are.

Time for another History Lesson . . .

The printing press wasn’t invented until the 15th century. Before this, Bibles were HAND-COPIED. They took YEARS to complete and were very expensive. Almost NOBODY owed a Bible except for the Church and those who could afford one – and were literate.

MOST of the world was functionally illiterate until the last few hundred years and would have NO USE for a Bible, let alone ANY book.

Study your HISTORY . . .

Who were in the world claiming to be THE Church of Christ, when no one else was game enough to challenge them? If it was God’s time to bring his word back into the hands of the people, he was going to use whomever he wanted to do that. He had used his enemies to accomplish his will in the past, and apparently he did so again. You take credit for what is not yours....and never was.

Ummm, then where WAS the “true Church” during this time?

I LOVE these fanciful “histories” you invent – but never seem to have any documentation for your fantasies . . .