No Escape : From Hell

[walter]

I do not agree that Jesus was telling the robber that he would be with Him on earth.

Accordingly, a fifth-century Curetonian Syriac version renders Jesus’ reply: “Amen, I say to thee to-day that with me thou shalt be in the Garden of Eden.'” --Luke 23:43

Comma placement

In Luke 23:43 He replied to him, “Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Could this also be interpreted as, “I say to you today, you will…” In other words is it more likely that “today” describes when “you will be with me” or when “I say to you”. kai eipen auto, Amen soi...

www.textkit.com

Also:
kai eutys eipen moi hoti amen amen semeron lego soi, met’ emou ese en to parad[eiso]. (“And immediately he said to me: ‘Most truly today I tell you, You will be with me in Paradise.’”)–Descent into Hades, an apocryphal writing of the fourth century C.E. Text found in Novum Testamentum Graece, editio octava critica maior, by C. Tischendorf, Vol. I, Leipzig,869, under Luke 23:43.
ho de eipen auto* semeron lego soi aletheian hina se ekho eis ton
parad[eison] met’ emou. (“And he said to him: ‘Today I tell you the truth,
that I should have you in Paradise with me.’”)–Gospel of Nicodemus (=Acts of Pilate)b287, an apocryphal writing of the fourth or fifth century C.E. Text found in Novum Testamentum Graece, editio octava critica maior, by C. Tischendorf, Vol. I, Leipzig, 1869, under Luke 23:43.

Therefore, at least from the fourth century C.E. until well into the twelfth
century C.E. there were readers who understood the text at Luke 23:43 as “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.” On that very day,when Jesus died, he was in Sheol or Hades, and not in Paradise. (Psalms 16:8-11; Acts 2:22-32) He was dead and in the tomb until the third day and was then resurrected as “the firstfruits” of the resurrection. (Acts 10:40;1 Corinthians 15:20; Colossians 1:18 ) Thus, the word “today” at Luke 23:43 does not give the time of the evildoer’s being with Jesus in Paradise._

 

[Aunty Jane]

FWIW....

Again – this is coming from a person who denies the deity of Christ and relegates Him as a created being whose brother is Satan. You really don’t have a lot of room to accuse others of “poisoned” doctrines . . .

John 17:3....I am a student of the Bible, not the church. If it’s not in the Bible, it’s from man, not God.
My research is thorough., as I follow the Beroean example. (Acts 17:11)

Your church is full of doctrines that have no origins in Scripture....a red flag to any genuine Bible student.
Any wonder that “sola scriptura” is denied by a church that bases all its doctrines on ideas that are outside of Scripture.

Time for yet another Bible Lesson . . .

Paul calls HIMSELF a “Priest”:
Rom.s 15:15-16
“But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.”

The Greek word used for both “minister” and “priestly is ηιερουργεο (hee-er-oorg-eh'-o), which means “Priest.”

Let’s have a look at what Paul actually said here....
There are two words used in verse 16....as you have highlighted....

“leitourgos” which means...

1. a public minister, a servant of the state
2. a minister, servant

And “hierourgeō”......which means “to minister in the manner of a priest, minister in priestly service”.

So Paul is “serving” the Gentiles “in the manner of a priest”...in the service of his God....so that the Gentiles will be acceptable to him as those sanctified by the holy spirit.
Priests led the people in worship....that is what Paul did to the Gentiles.

“In the manner of”...is not calling Paul a priest on earth, as he was a Jew and fully informed about when he would assume his priesthood by the holy spirit.

Rev 20:4-7...new Catholic Bible...
In his Revelation, John describes the heavenly scene.....

“ I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given the authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for bearing witness to Jesus and the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them. They will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. When the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison.”

I know what that passage means to a Bible student, but what do they mean to a Catholic?

This was a vision given to the apostle John at the close of the first century. Rev 1:1 indicates that it was transmitted by God to Jesus, who then gave it to an angel, to relay to John......there you have the chain of command.

The vision and the priesthood was then future, long after the death of the apostles and during the reign of Jesus Christ for the thousand years it was going to take to bring redeemed mankind back into reconciliation with God. Has Jesus thousand year reign already begun?

Paul acting in a priestly capacity was not at all indicating that he was to be a priest on earth. The priesthood was to be served in heaven, over an earthly population. There are no Christian priests on earth. There are ministers serving in various roles and capacities but they are positions of service and responsibility, not rank and authority over others. Do you know the difference between an overseer and a CEO?

Ummm, WHERE do you think the imagery came from??

Exactly...you just answered your own question. REVELATION was all heavenly, not earthly.

In Acts 1, the Disciples gathered to choose a successor for Judas.
Acts 1:10 says, “Let another take his office.”

The Greek word used here for “Office” is Episkopay, which means “Bishopric”.

There were Bishops (Acts 1:20), Priests/Presbyters (Acts 14:2, Titus 1:5), Deacons (Rom. 16:1, Tim. 3:8-13).

Another place you will see a listing of roles of hierarchy is in 1 Cor. 12:28-31.

What these title came to mean in Catholicism is not what they meant to those in the first century Christian congregations. The “office” held by Judas’ replacement is defined as....

1. “oversight
   1. overseership, office, charge, the office of an elder
   2. the overseer or presiding officers of a Christian church”

So what was an “overseer”? What was an “elder” in the church?

One with oversight was to watch out for anything that could destroy the unity enjoyed by the Christian brotherhood. There was never a priest officiating at any of the congregations because oversight was something given to a body of spiritually qualified men, with no one man assuming sole responsibility for anything...it was shared as a body...a cohesive, well trained body of Christ’s disciples, given a role that had to be kept in perspective...no bosses, just fellow brothers with a job to do. Humility prevented anyone from ‘big noting’ themselves.

That’s because they aren’t part of the Catholic Church, Einstein . . .

So Catholics are really only Catholics if the church says so? I think even Einstein could see through your very weak arguments. None of the Eastern Orthodox churches are Catholic, even though they claim to be?
Who do we believe? Why was there a schism in the first place?

The straw that broke Luther’s back was his own arrogance . . .

Luther wasn’t intent on starting a new religion...he just wanted the church to reform itself, fully aware of what the Bible taught as he was a priest of the Catholic Faith. It wasn’t arrogance at all, but a desire to force compliance with the teachings of Jesus Christ.....he wasn’t wanting a reformation, but his action began something that God had moved him to do, regardless of the church’s protestations about his motive, God used him to topple the Roman church from its self appointed position, devoid of any “Christian” trait or teaching.

The only good thing that the Reformation did was put God’s word back into the hands of the common people who could then, for the first time, compare what God’s word said as opposed to what the church implied that it said. They came to realise the extent of the departure.
They could emulate the Beroeans and check things out for themselves.

God’s word is a divider as it is meant to be. (Heb 4:12-13)

I’m ready for His return as judge – AND as the 2nd Person of the Triune Godhead.

Are YOU - or are you going to continue to deny Him to His face??

Well, as Jesus is the only judge we have to worry about, I have taken my stand, and apparently you have taken yours....we will allow Jesus Christ to do his job and “separate the sheep from the goats”...

He knows which are which, and that is all that matters.

I am done here....

 

[Marymog]

How long was the Catholic church in existence before the Reformation took place?

Since Jesus rose from the dead!

 

[Marymog]

What was the history of the church for centuries before that (The reformation)?

The history of The Catholic Church before the Reformation:

It established churches throughout the world with One teaching under One Church which fulfilled Christ's prayer that we all be One!
It codified Scripture (the bible you quote from) via the Councils of Nicaea, Rome, Carthage, Florence and Trent.
It defended Christians against and mostly eradicated heretical teachings such as Docetism, Gnostics and Arianism.
It started the Crusades to stop the spread of Islam. If it hadn't done this you would probably me Muslim by force or choice. Your welcome!

The history of the Reformation:

The division of Christianity!
Abortion is not murder!
Women can be pastors and bishops!
God is ok with gay marriage!

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Was there ever a Protestant Inquisition?….where the church murdered its own people for heresy?

YES! But your Protestant men have never taught you that and you are scared to learn the truth on your own!

 

[Marymog]

I had to divorce myself from Christendom altogether in order to realign my belief with the Bible.
I never found “the truth” in any of Christendom’s divided church system…..all embraced the foundations established by Roman Catholicism…so I went back to the beginning and started fresh, allowing the Bible itself to dictate my beliefs. It was very liberating. A complete escape from “hell” and other awful doctrines.

As far as I am aware, no other church teaches what the Bible says, though some are close.
In case you are unaware, not many teach whole Bible truth.…they teach church theology in the mistaken belief that these are the same thing.
My research was thorough and I made sure of their beliefs before I committed myself to Jehovah God, through becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ.

When I say that I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, I mean being a footstep follower of the Master…..doing what he commanded, not what the churches taught at all.

What did he command his followers to do? It was what he did himself….sending his disciples out to search for the lost ones, teaching them about his Father and the wonderful future he had in store for them (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20)…..there was no hell of eternal torment, his references to “Gehenna” were metaphorical.
I belong to a global brotherhood who all believe the same truth and who are active in the work Jesus assigned to his disciples. He said he would be with them in this work. (Matt 10:11-14; Matt 28:19-20)

They have more than likely called at your door…..

I read your long response two different ways.

The first way: All those words in 4 paragraphs and I don't see an answer to my very simple questions. So, I will try again: Have you found "the truth"? It appears you think you know the truth since you know that the Catholic Church is not teaching the truth. If so, in which church denomination did you find this truth?

The second way: You left a Christian denomination to read the bible on your own and you realized that the denomination you were attending was not teaching what the Bible said. So you left that denomination and read the Bible on your own and YOU determined the truth of Scripture. YOU have also determined that some denominations are "close" to teaching what the Bible says because those denominations align with what YOU have taught yourself via Bible study. You also said they may have come knocking at my door and that, to me, indicates you are a JW or Mormon or something like that (I can't remember which group does that)? If you are one of those 2 denominations, you must be embarrassed to admit it. Why are you embarrassed? Maybe because both were started under, what most Christians would say, unbiblical practices 1,800 years after the death of Christ?

If I am reading your looooong response to my very simple questions correctly that means that you have found a denomination that YOU believe teaches the truth of Scripture because that denomination lines up with how YOU have interpreted Scripture: Mormanism or JW? Which means you are doing what the men of your denomination are commanding. But I am willing to bet that you are going to say that the denomination you are affiliated with now gets some things wrong about Scripture because what they teach is not what you believe but you tolerate their teaching because it is the closest to YOUR truth? Am I right about that?????????

I think I have had this conversation with you before, but I could be wrong......pretty sure I have though.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

My research is thorough., as I follow the Beroean example. (Acts 17:11)

AJ! Your Protestant teachers have not done very well at teaching you.

The Bereans were Jews. When Paul and Silas told them how Jesus fulfilled the ancient prophesy they researched what we now call the OT and determined that Paul and Silas were telling them the truth and that Jesus was the prophesied Messiah. The Bereans then became Christians and were subject to the teachings/doctrines of The Church. Everything The Church (the living Apostles at the time) taught, the Bereans had to abide by. The Bereans didn't start making up their own doctrine based on what they were taught by Paul and Silas. They didn't start promoting their own priests and bishops, The Church did. They obeyed and practiced what The Church told them to obey and practice. Example: Council of Jerusalem, Acts 15. You should read it. The Bereans adhered to the Pastoral letters (Titus and Timothy) written by Paul. They didn't make up their own rules/doctrines/practices/truths like you do after reading the bible........ Got it?

Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

FWIW....

John 17:3....I am a student of the Bible, not the church. If it’s not in the Bible, it’s from man, not God.

Then you don’t know your Bible very well . . .

Scripture tells us that the CHURCH is God’s mouthpiece on earth (Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:18, John 16L12-15, Luke 10:16).

Sola Scriptura is a Protestant fairy tale invented in the 16th century.

My research is thorough., as I follow the Beroean example. (Acts 17:11)

The Beroeans weren’t Sola Scripturists. They were Hellenistic Jews who studied the OT in order to test the claims of Christianity because that’s ALL they had. They were only considered "noble-minded" because they had an open mind.

Your church is full of doctrines that have no origins in Scripture....a red flag to any genuine Bible student.
Any wonder that “sola scriptura” is denied by a church that bases all its doctrines on ideas that are outside of Scripture.

And yet, you have FAILED to show me where the BIBLE teaches Sola Scriptura.
It doesn’t . . .

Let’s have a look at what Paul actually said here....
There are two words used in verse 16....as you have highlighted....

“leitourgos” which means...

1. a public minister, a servant of the state
2. a minister, servant

And “hierourgeō”......which means “to minister in the manner of a priest, minister in priestly service”.

So Paul is “serving” the Gentiles “in the manner of a priest”...in the service of his God....so that the Gentiles will be acceptable to him as those sanctified by the holy spirit.
Priests led the people in worship....that is what Paul did to the Gentiles.

“In the manner of”...is not calling Paul a priest on earth, as he was a Jew and fully informed about when he would assume his priesthood by the holy spirit.

Nice TRY . . .

However, WHAT does a Priest do? He presents a sacrifice before God. He is the minister of Divine worship - and SACRIFICE. Paul was a minister in the manner of a priest – presenting the sacrifice of Jesus in the Eucharist.

Rev 20:4-7...new Catholic Bible...
In his Revelation, John describes the heavenly scene.....

Paul acting in a priestly capacity was not at all indicating that he was to be a priest on earth. The priesthood was to be served in heaven, over an earthly population.

That’s NOT the context of Rom. 15:15-16 . . .
“But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.”

This is talking about Paul’s EARTHLY priesthood to the Gentiles.

There are no Christian priests on earth. There are ministers serving in various roles and capacities but they are positions of service and responsibility, not rank and authority over others.

WRONG again . . .

In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
- The High Priest (Lev. 16, Haggai 1:12-14 S).
- The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood (Lev. 16).
- The rest of the people were a General priesthood of believers (Exod. 19:6).

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
- Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
- The Ministerial Priests (Rom 15:15-16, James 5:14-15)
- The General priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

As with all NT fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the OT type.

What the following verses are describing is the very definition of the duties of the Ministerial Priesthood: (John 20:21-23, 2 Cor. 5:18-20, 2 Cor. 2:10, James 5:14-15)

Exactly...you just answered your own question. REVELATION was all heavenly, not earthly.

And Heaven is out hope, our destiny.
EVERYTHING we do aimed toward that.

What these title came to mean in Catholicism is not what they meant to those in the first century Christian congregations. The “office” held by Judas’ replacement is defined as....

1. “oversight
   
   1. overseership, office, charge, the office of an elder
   2. the overseer or presiding officers of a Christian church”

The definition of a Bishop is “Overseer”.

Επισκοπε (ep-is-kop-ay')
Pronunciation: Definition:
1b) oversight 1b1) overseership, office 1b2) the overseer or presiding officers of a Christian church

So Catholics are really only Catholics if the church says so? I think even Einstein could see through your very weak arguments. None of the Eastern Orthodox churches are Catholic, even though they claim to be?
Who do we believe? Why was there a schism in the first place?

To properly answer this – I would d have to educate you on Church History. Unfortunately, YOU aren’t interested in that subject, which is why you fell into the grips of your cult in the first place.

In a nutshell, the Eastern Orthodox Churches split from the Catholic Church in the 11th century.
You are probably referring to the Eastern Catholic Churches, which are in communion with the Roman/Latin Catholic Church.

Luther wasn’t intent on starting a new religion...

Not at FIRST, but pride and arrogance consumed him as he began to invent his own doctrine like Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide.

The only good thing that the Reformation did was put God’s word back into the hands of the common people who could then, for the first time, compare what God’s word said as opposed to what the church implied that it said. They came to realise the extent of the departure.
They could emulate the Beroeans and check things out for themselves.

WOW – that was quite a display of historical ignorance.

For your information, up to 90% of the “common” people were functionally-illiterate up until a few hundred years ago. It was mostly the rich who were educated.

It might also interest you that the Bible was being read ALOUD in churches for over a thousand years before Luther. In fact, virtually the entire Bible is read aloud in any given 3-year period from Catholic pulpits.

Well, as Jesus is the only judge we have to worry about, I have taken my stand, and apparently you have taken yours....we will allow Jesus Christ to do his job and “separate the sheep from the goats”...

He knows which are which, and that is all that matters.

Good luck telling Him He's NOT God . . .

I am done here....

You certainly are . . .

 

[Aunty Jane]

Since Jesus rose from the dead!

Well, that made me laugh! .....Jesus and his apostles warned about an apostasy that was already manifesting itself at the end of the first century. (the wheat and the weeds) It was infiltrating whilst some of the apostles were still alive, but acting as a restraint until the last apostle (John) had finished his contribution to the Christian Scriptures.

2 Thess 2:6-12 NCB...Paul also warned about this apostasy or falling away from the true faith.

“And you also know what is now restraining him, so that he may not be revealed before his time comes. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who restrains it will continue to do so until he is removed.
Then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him by the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming. His coming will be the work of Satan made manifest in all power and signs and wonders of falsehood, and in every wicked deception designed for those who are perishing because they refused to accept the love of the truth and thereby gain salvation. For this reason, God imposes on them a powerful delusion. They believe what is false, so that all who have not believed the truth but instead have taken pleasure in wickedness will be condemned.”

Who then is the “lawless one” and what was restraining him from fully being revealed before his time?

After the death of the apostles (and the removal of the restraint) apostasy took over the church.....wolves came in and masqueraded as shepherds, leading the whole Christian world astray...not through any kind of Christian love, but through tyrannical power imposed on the people through their political leaders who became puppets of the church. Monarchs were loathe to make a move without church sanction. So much for being “no part of the world”....(John 18:36)

Satan set up a counterfeit church that was recognized by the way it treated the sheep. The seeds of this weedy counterfeit were not sown recently, but go all the way back to the end of the first century...so your statement above is a joke. As soon as the restraining influence of the apostles was gone....the rot set in rapidly. History attests to all of it.

It codified Scripture (the bible you quote from) via the Councils of Nicaea, Rome, Carthage, Florence and Trent.
It defended Christians against and mostly eradicated heretical teachings such as Docetism, Gnostics and Arianism.

As the only form of “Christianity” in existence, the church was used to compile and present God’s word, not for the sole benefit of the church, but for the benefit of all....yet how many Catholic people ever heard what the whole Bible teaches, when they were only fed tiny morsels that seemed to back up what the church wanted them to believe......”power corrupts” and the church was no exception....also seen in its creeds and doctrines, none of which relayed the truth that Christ taught.

As for defending against heretical teachings...? How does one do that by replacing Bible truth with church grown heresies that masqueraded as Bible teachings?

The adoration of Mary, the immaculate conception, her bodily assumption......an earthly priesthood who emulated apostate Judaism with its grand and imposing cathedrals and priestly garb....rituals, repetitious prayers, rosary beads, holy water, purgatory, infant baptism and high sounding titles in a defined hierarchy..….equal “brothers in Christ” were replaced with positions of rank and absolute authority?

Did the people know the difference? Was anyone even allowed to read the Bible? Even if they could obtain one, they were put to death for possessing it....burned alive for daring to have what the church told the people was their exclusive property.

It started the Crusades to stop the spread of Islam. If it hadn't done this you would probably me Muslim by force or choice. Your welcome!

And you believe that Christ taught that bloodshed would identify his church....!?
Whatever happened in the history of the church is what God allowed, to show up its unchristian conduct.
‘Those who take up the sword would perish by the sword’ as Jesus said.

Paul’s admonition was ignored.....

“Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Rather, be concerned about doing what is good in the eyes of all. As much as possible, and to the extent of your ability, live in peace with everyone. Dearly beloved, never seek revenge. Leave that to the time of retribution. For it is written, “Vengeance is mine, says the Lord. I will repay.” On the contrary, “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. By doing this,you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good.” (Rom 12:17-21 NCB)

Because Christians were “no part of the world”, they could not participate in its wars and conflicts. They could not have blood on their hands in unsanctioned political wars. (Isa 1:15)

God has not sanctioned a war since the days of ancient Israel.....and he only backed them up to defend the land that he had gifted them. Once that land was in enemy hands, they did not have his backing to go to war any more. By the time Jesus arrived Israel had no military force….and Christ advocated for peace among his disciples no matter what country they were born in.

In the two world wars of last century, Catholic killed Catholic and Protestant killed Protestant because they were on opposing sides of political conflicts….but in 1 John 4:20-21 we find no sanction to kill one’s brother in the faith over political issues. It is tantamount to denying God.

Christ never advocated for politically motivated violence. He taught his disciples to be “no part” of that world…..for obvious reasons. (1 John 5:19)

For those who believe that God supports the wars of the nations....think again. No nation has a land that was gifted to them by God.....all were stolen by conquerors with swords and other weapons, so when the Spanish conquistadors entered a land and forced the conquered inhabitants to become Catholic, you couldn’t really call that genuine conversion now, could you?

Some of the most poverty stricken nations on earth are Catholic, but under the “care” of the richest organisation on earth. So much for the caring and sharing that the church instituted by Christ, promoted.

 

[Aunty Jane]

But your Protestant men have never taught you that and you are scared to learn the truth on your own!

I am not any part of Christendom...so not Protestant in my beliefs at all. I have no “Protestant men”. I have Bible teachers.

Have you found "the truth"? It appears you think you know the truth since you know that the Catholic Church is not teaching the truth. If so, in which church denomination did you find this truth?

Wasn’t it Jesus who said...”you will know the truth and the truth shall set you free”...?
I found the truth and it set me free in ways I never imagined.

You left a Christian denomination to read the bible on your own and you realized that the denomination you were attending was not teaching what the Bible said. So you left that denomination and read the Bible on your own and YOU determined the truth of Scripture. YOU have also determined that some denominations are "close" to teaching what the Bible says because those denominations align with what YOU have taught yourself via Bible study.

I found a body of Christians separated from the divided church systems of Christendom, who were not interested in doctrines...just in Bible truth.....it was from the Bible itself that I learned that truth....not on my own, as Christians have a commission to be preachers and to share the truth with others. Christians shared their truth with me and for the first time in my life everything made sense.

True Christians are preachers who go out and search for the sheep...they don’t stay in their ornate stained glass window churches waiting for the sheep to wander in. Jesus sent them out on a search and rescue mission, telling them that he would be with them right to the end. (Matt 10:11-14; Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20)

You also said they may have come knocking at my door and that, to me, indicates you are a JW or Mormon or something like that (I can't remember which group does that)? If you are one of those 2 denominations, you must be embarrassed to admit it. Why are you embarrassed? Maybe because both were started under, what most Christians would say, unbiblical practices 1,800 years after the death of Christ?

Most here know exactly who I am and I am proud of it. I have been one of Jehovah’s Witnesses for over 50 years.
How did the first Christians preach?
Acts 20:20-21....NCB...
“I did not hesitate to tell you what was for your benefit as I proclaimed the word to you and taught you publicly as well as from house to house. I have attested to Jews and Gentiles alike about repentance before God and faith in our Lord Jesus.”

We follow their example because every life is precious...so you will find us wherever people are...even at their doorstep.....no one will have the excuse that no one told them the truth....we are preaching in every nation….but the majority will reject us. (Matt 7:13-14; John 15:18-21)

that means that you have found a denomination that YOU believe teaches the truth of Scripture because that denomination lines up with how YOU have interpreted Scripture: Mormanism or JW? Which means you are doing what the men of your denomination are commanding.

No, it means that we are doing what Christ Jesus commanded us to do.....no human commands us to do anything.....no one has authority over us except Christ and his Father.

Mormons may visit your door ( rarely now) but they do not come with a Bible in their hands, nor do they have good news about God’s Kingdom……when was the last time a Catholic called at your door to give you the “good news”? (Matt 24:14)

But I am willing to bet that you are going to say that the denomination you are affiliated with now gets some things wrong about Scripture because what they teach is not what you believe but you tolerate their teaching because it is the closest to YOUR truth? Am I right about that?

There are no perfect people on planet earth, and yes, we have made adjustments in our thinking from time to time as we expect clarification about things as we draw closer to “the end“ that Jesus foretold.
Even the apostles had to adjust their thinking once the holy spirit anointed them and revealed more details about the promised Kingdom of God. (Prov 4:18) ‘The light on the path was to get brighter as the day dawned.’

If you are still stuck in the dark, the light will never shine for you….(Matt 6:22-23)

 

[Marymog]

I am not any part of Christendom...

Finally, we agree on something!

 

[walter]

Finally, we agree on something!

What are your thoughts? Doesn't everybody come from their own unique experiences and reasons for believing what they believe?

Mark 12:30-31

IMO Even if we believe differently than the other person, but we ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ wouldn't that be a powerful and positive foundation for the people in the world?

 

[Aunty Jane]

IMO Even if we believe differently than the other person, but we ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ wouldn't that be a powerful and positive foundation for the people in the world?

Just imagine if everyone did that.....? Loved their neighbor as they love themselves....even atheists could get along and nations would not want to steal their neighbor’s land or resources with bloodshed.

One simple command to love your neighbor as yourself would end crime and violence, war, poverty, racial hatred and everything that creates animosity....and allow us all to share the planet....what’s stopping us?

 

[Marymog]

What are your thoughts? Doesn't everybody come from their own unique experiences and reasons for believing what they believe?

Mark 12:30-31

IMO Even if we believe differently than the other person, but we ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ wouldn't that be a powerful and positive foundation for the people in the world?

Yes walter, everybody comes from their own unique experiences and reasons for believing what they believe.

Yes, everyone should, as commanded, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself, and by doing that it would be a "positive foundation for the people in the world".

Both those statements are very general platitudes that does not get the heart of belief.

One can "believe differently than the other person" but that does not mean that YOUR belief or MY belief is the Truth. The only thing that matters, if you want to be saved, is if you know/have the Truth because, as scripture says, the truth will set you free (John 8). Also, Jesus prayed that we may all be one (John 17). He did not pray for us to believe differently and have our own Truths. Also, scripture says that He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. So, if one believes "differently" and their belief is not of God then they are in the spirit of error. If you are in error, you will not be saved.

Would you agree that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth? Do you believe that you should adhere to the decisions of the church?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Just imagine if everyone did that.....? Loved their neighbor as they love themselves....even atheists could get along and nations would not want to steal their neighbor’s land or resources with bloodshed.

One simple command to love your neighbor as yourself would end crime and violence, war, poverty, racial hatred and everything that creates animosity....and allow us all to share the planet....what’s stopping us?

What's stopping us? Free will and Satan?

 

[Aunty Jane]

What's stopping us? Free will and Satan?

Free will has been at the heart of man’s problems from the beginning....so was it a mistake? Satan has used it to his advantage, but can he force us to abuse our free will...or only tempt us to so?

So, if one believes "differently" and their belief is not of God then they are in the spirit of error. If you are in error, you will not be saved.

Paul addressed this problem....

2 Thess 2:8-12.....Jesus will reveal who this lawless one really is...the one misleading the masses...and who supports him.

“Then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him by the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming. His coming will be the work of Satan made manifest in all power and signs and wonders of falsehood, and in every wicked deception designed for those who are perishing because they refused to accept the love of the truth and thereby gain salvation. For this reason, God imposes on them a powerful delusion. They believe what is false, so that all who have not believed the truth but instead have taken pleasure in wickedness will be condemned.” (NCB)

What is a delusion? It’s someone’s altered reality....how wide spread is the delusion created by Satan?
1 John 5:19...
“We know that we are from God and that the entire world lies under the power of the evil one.” (NCB)

“The entire world” doesn’t leave any place out of his reach....and he is powerful...but not more powerful than God, who carefully selects from among mankind, those who will be welcome citizens in his coming Kingdom. (John 6:44; 65) He reveals his truth to them, and they come into his spiritual family who stand out as not supporting worldly conflicts. These are at peace with everyone and are politically neutral as Jesus was....he did not encourage his disciples to fight against Roman oppression but taught them how to serve God in spite of it’s oppression of his people.

Would you agree that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth? Do you believe that you should adhere to the decisions of the church?

First we must identify “the church” which must emulate the one whose teachings it was to follow....not the counterfeit “church” that rose up after the death of the apostles and took the “Christian Faith” into into uncharted territory, adding so many things that were of pagan origin, but passing them off as Christian teachings and doctrines.....

The “wheat” have always been in the world...a hated and persecuted minority (John 15:18-21; Matt 7:13-14)....whereas the “weeds” spread out into the world through ungodly conduct and forced conversions at the point of a sword....and at the hands of the Grand Inquisitor....hardly a valid basis for faith in Christ.....”the Prince of Peace”.

Wherever there was violence, torture and bloodshed, Christ was missing....(Isa 1:15 Matt 7:21-23)....so he has basically never set foot in a “church” with blood on its hands. The whole of Christendom has blood on their hands, through their support of their own nation’s warfare.....and they have slaughtered even their own brothers in the faith for purely political reasons, and continue to do so. (1 John 4:20-21) Proving that Christ is not among them. Being “no part of the world” means what it says. (John 18:36)

 

[walter]

Would you agree that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth?

Myself I believe that the correct conclusion on any Bible subject would come from scripture alone, not anything I can say or you can say.

And when I mean scripture I mean every scripture we can find, "all scripture". I do appreciate your Viewpoint and what you have to say.. but when it comes down to Salvation I use all the scriptures alone to explain how I believe.

2nd Timothy 3:16-17; John 17:17; Luke 8:21

 

[Marymog]

Myself I believe that the correct conclusion on any Bible subject would come from scripture alone, not anything I can say or you can say.

And when I mean scripture I mean every scripture we can find, "all scripture". I do appreciate your Viewpoint and what you have to say.. but when it comes down to Salvation I use all the scriptures alone to explain how I believe.

2nd Timothy 3:16-17; John 17:17; Luke 8:21

You didn't answer the question.......None the less, thank you for your time.

 

[walter]

You didn't answer the question.......None the less, thank you for your time.

What is your specific question in one sentence?

 

[Marymog]

What is your specific question in one sentence?

If you look back at my response you would see that there were 2 questions: Would you agree that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth? Do you believe that you should adhere to the decisions of the church?

Per your request I will narrow that down to a specific question. Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Do you believe that you should adhere to the decisions of the church?

Patient Mary