No Exceptions: Jesus Was Talking to You

[Aunty Jane]

Let me help you remember what you actually said.

You said that its "blasphemy" to do it..

So, ive given you, about 5 instances where Jesus was worshipped, and referred to Himself as "LORD".

Let me give you another one, as you are very easy to explose.....typical of a JW.

As soon as the 3 Magi laid eyes on the infant Christ, = “they bowed down and Worshipped Him” (Matthew 2:11)

Let’s just clarify…shall we?
I said it was blasphemy to put the son in the Father’s place and worship him. (Ex 20:3) Jews were monotheists, weren’t they? And are they not still staunch resistors of the trinity?

I showed you the word “worship” in Greek and what it means. When rendered to God it is “worship”…when rendered to a human it is “obeisance”….Jesus was a human…..the magi were not “worshipping” another god but doing “obeisance” to a new human king…….it’s the same word with different meanings depending on context. There are many words like that in Greek.

As an a example, in the British justice system, which was adopted by the Australian system, judges were called “Your Worship” based on the Greek “proskenyo”. In America, judges are addressed as “Your Honor” because it means the same thing when used to address a human in a position of authority.

Was Jesus a human in authority? Were the judges in Israel authority figures as well? Read John 10,31-36 and see that Yahweh himself called his judges “gods” because they acted as his representatives.

For pity’s sake stop making a fool of yourself, and go and do some real Bible study.

 

[Behold]

Let’s just clarify…shall we?
I said it was blasphemy to put the son in the Father’s place and worship him.

And i showed you at least 3 cases where Jesus was worshipped before He died on the Cross and after......

Is that clear enough for you?

I showed you the word “worship” in Greek and what it means. When rendered to God it is “worship”…when rendered to a human it is “obeisance”….Jesus was a human…..the magi were not “worshipping”

The Harlot and the Magi, were worshipping Jesus .

The Harlot understood to do it......


The Magi, understood that Jesus was the Messiah and the King of the Jews.

This is why they knelt before a brand new baby and "worshipped" Him.

And you will too, before its all over.

For pity’s sake stop making a fool of yourself,

What am i talikng to... if not one of those., in the flesh?... You.

As i said, the members will judge your words and mine.

This is why i highlight people like you on forums......Its for them...not for you.
See, you are too far gone to be able to come out of your JW programming.....so, by letting the members read simple bible Truths... that a 4 yr old can understand...they see how your JW programming, has created you to dodge, insult, avoid, and deflect..

Just remember that Ive shown you were a Harlot worshipped Jesus, in public, on her knees......and Jesus allowed it in front of a group of Pharasees.....

And ive shown you where an Apostle knelt before Jesus and said.. "My LORD and my GOD".

And ive just shown you were the 3 Magi, "worshipped" the infant ("God in the Flesh") when He was barely born.

And now im going to show you more...

Do you remember when Jesus walked on the Water?

His Disciples worshipped Him, after He did this.......

 

[marks]

Wait, don't JW's believe that the angel Michael came to earth to be Jesus, and then returned to being Michael? So that they don't actually believe in a real Jesus? Just that this was the life force of Michael as someone else?

You’re not fooling anyone.

Heresy, pure and simple. Anti-christ.

Jesus was not raised “bodily” as in reclaiming the body he surrendered as a sacrifice.
He was raised as a spirit (1 Pet 3:18) because flesh and blood cannot exist outside of earth’s atmosphere. He returned to spirit form, as he was in heaven “with God” “in the beginning”.

You are contradicted by plainly stated Scripture:

Luke 24:36-43 KJV
36) And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37) But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38) And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40) And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41) And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42) And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43) And he took it, and did eat before them.

It was Jesus Who rose, Jesus Who returned to heaven, Jesus Who will come again from heaven. Not an angel, but God Himself.

Much love!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Can we analyze what the Scriptures tell us about these things….not in the cherry picked things you think support your beliefs?

You are contradicted by plainly stated Scripture:

Am I?…let’s see….

Luke 24:36-43 NASB for clarity….
“While they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst and *said to them, “Peace be to you.” But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit.“

Why were they frightened that they were seeing a spirit?
Did you know that Jewish law forbade communication with spirits because the demons could impersonate spirits of the dead to prop up the devil’s first lie….”you surely will not die”…..Spirit mediums were needed to communicate with these wicked spirits and God made sure that they were eradicated from the land under Saul’s rulership. But after his defection, in his desperate state of mind, he found the only remaining spirit medium in the land to conjure up the spirit of Samuel?
He was desperate because he had defected from his God , and the living prophets would no longer speak with him, so the only option he had left was to consult a person who could get in touch with the prophet Samuel, who was the King’s adviser in his faithful days, but now he had lost God’s favor, and gave himself over to the demons who were only too happy to have a lend of him.

This is why spiritism was forbidden….only demons impersonate the dead.
Jesus “appeared” to his disciples and to many others but he was not always recognized….why?

And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; and He took it and ate it before them.

Jesus had to appear in materialized form so that he did not compromise God’s law. It was the reason why angels always appeared as men to deliver God’s instructions to his earthly servants.

Angels came in to Abraham to tell him of Isaac’s birth, and two of the angles went on to Sodom to rescue Lot and his family…they ate and drank what was provided out of hospitality by both families…..(Gen 18)

Materializing a body to “appear“ to them when he had been their constant companion for three and a half years shows that in his resurrected state, he needed no human comforts. The bodies he appeared in were not always recognized….and on a couple of occasions he appeared in bodies with the wounds of his execution, whilst at other times they were never mentioned. His physical state at the time of his death was awful, having been flogged and tortured the night before. If he had been resurrected in that state wouldn’t his disciples have recognized him straight away? Would Mary have mistaken him for the gardener?
And wouldn’t God have resurrected him in restored health rather that with the wounds of his painful death?

On one occasion they saw him disappear right before their eyes…..this was not the Jesus they knew before….he was in a different kind of body.

It was Jesus Who rose, Jesus Who returned to heaven, Jesus Who will come again from heaven. Not an angel, but God Himself.

It was indeed Jesus who rose, because it says that God resurrected him. He did not resurrect himself. (Acts 2:32)
Jesus went back to heaven where he was seated at God’s right hand according to prophesy (Psalm 110:1-2) but there is no mention of a third party at his left.
He will return with his army to mete out justice, and to “separate the sheep from the goats”. He is pictured in Revelation as a mighty spirit warrior King who will carry out his Father’s will, as he always has.

He was “sent” by his God and Father, whom he calls “the only true God” without including himself, (John 17:3) so he is not his equal, as Paul clearly states. (1 Cor 11:3) The Father alone is God. (1 Cor 8:5-6)

 

[marks]

Jesus had to appear in materialized form so that he did not compromise God’s law. It was the reason why angels always appeared as men to deliver God’s instructions to his earthly servants.

Your assertion is that when Jesus told the He was not a spirit, He lied??

Luke 24:37-40 KJV
37) But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38) And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40) And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

No, God is not the liar, men are liars. Not God.

Much love!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Your assertion is that when Jesus told the He was not a spirit, He lied??

You are twisting my words out of defensiveness…..I never said Jesus lied. I said he materialized so as not to offend his disciples who were by law forbidden to communicate with spirits.

The only spirits in existence apart from God, are angels. There are no spirits of the dead because there is no such thing as an immortal soul. The devil has the whole world believing his first lie….”you surely will not die”….when God told Adam that he would simply return to the dust. (Gen 3:19)
The dead are actually dead as God said they would be. (Eccl 9:5, 10) The Bible teaches resurrection, which is a return to life, not a continuation of it somewhere else……a concept which was lost when immortality of the soul was adopted by every false religion. Satan is the author of all of them.

The demons are fallen angels, led by the devil into rebellion….these could no longer materialize after the flood and so became wicked spirits, operating behind the scenes to entrap mankind in the devil’s web of lies and deception. He is a mimic and uses disguised things familiar to man, to lead them down a dark path.

Faithful angels retained the ability to materialize as was demonstrated by their visit to Abraham and Lot. (Gen 18) Daniel and Mary received a visit from Gabriel, some 500 years apart. They always appeared as men. They ate and drank when hospitality was offered, like any other human. But when their mission was done, they dematerialized and returned to the spirit realm.

Only in visions did they appear with wings…..not that they needed wings to transport themselves, but so that humans could comprehend their ability to fly. Only winged creatures could do that in Bible times.

Luke 24:37-40 KJV
37) But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38) And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39) Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40) And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

No, God is not the liar, men are liars. Not God.

No one is lying…..what I have shown you from the Bible is confronting because of what you have been programmed to believe about Jesus.
He died as a man, and was raised as a spirit (1 Peter 3:18)…..he had the ability (like all faithful spirits) to materialize and he did so on numerous occasions and was not often recognized even by his close associates. On one occasion he was dining with them and he disappeared right before their eyes…..he was not in the human body that was sacrificed, because they only recognized him by the way he broke the bread. (Luke 24:30-31)

The scripture you quoted is Jesus showing his apostles his hands and feet to prove that it was him. Would God have raised his precious son with the damage inflicted by his enemies? if Jesus and the apostles could “cure every sort of disease and infirmity”…why would God raise Jesus in the tortured and damaged body that died? Think about it.

Please just read the accounts and see that Jesus was not in the body he sacrificed when God resurrected him. I don’t think you have any idea how successful the devil has been in taking people away from the simple truths of the Bible, and complicating everything so that confusion and disunity is all we see in the “church” system…..that confusing rabble cannot possibly be a product of God’s spirit.

How can you possibly think it is?

 

[marks]

You are twisting my words out of defensiveness…..I never said Jesus lied. I said he materialized so as not to offend his disciples who were by law forbidden to communicate with spirits.

Yeah, you are saying that Jesus/Michael "materialized" a body to deceive the disciples to think he was not a "spirit", though you believe that in fact Jesus was not still living in a body. Not even Jesus, right? Michael's "life force" whatever that is. Too much sci-fi! No, you didn't say he lied, you merely described the deception he was engaging in.

Is this a correct quote?

"after Jesus was buried in the tomb, Jehovah dissolved his body into gasses and it disappeared forever".
(WT 09/01/53 p. 518; Time...Hand p. 129)

Is that right? That's what you claim?

This is the Bible:

1 John 4:1-3 KJV
1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

"Is come in the flesh" is in the Perfect Tense, which means Jesus remains in flesh.

1 Corinthians 15:39-40 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Not the same flesh, but a body none the less.

So then what are we to conclude about those who thing Jesus' body dissovled into gasses disappearing forever? The Bible says this is the spirit of antichrist. Not me. The Bible says that.

Much love!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yeah, you are saying that Jesus/Michael "materialized" a body to deceive the disciples to think he was not a "spirit", though you believe that in fact Jesus was not still living in a body.

It was not a deception, but an acknowledgment that he respected God’s law given to them, never to communicate with spirits. Jesus was in a spirit body, as all his elect will be upon their own resurrection.
The body of flesh that God gave his son had been sacrificed. He did not take it back for all the reasons I have already mentioned.
Your defensiveness indicates your hesitation to comprehend what was said to you…..why? Because it has never been brought to your attention before? The tomb was empty and Jesus was not in the body he had when he died…..all of the accounts of his activities after his resurrection testify to that. Argue with them.

Not even Jesus, right? Michael's "life force" whatever that is. Too much sci-fi! No, you didn't say he lied, you merely described the deception he was engaging in.

Does God dwell in a material realm….do his angels have physical form? Can you explain the power demonstrated by God and his angels? Can you explain all that to me in human terms?
“Too much sci-fi”?….LOL….where do you think Christ’s elect are going to spend eternity?

I described what the Bible says concerning communication with spirits and how Jesus respected God’s law in showing them a physical man, so that they could comprehend what had happened to him….all resurrections performed in the Bible were a restoration to a former life…..but not Jesus! His life and death had a much more far reaching and important purpose. They also had to understand why he appeared in different bodies….ones they did not recognize. Sometimes with the wounds of his execution and at other times, none.

Is this a correct quote?

"after Jesus was buried in the tomb, Jehovah dissolved his body into gasses and it disappeared forever".
(WT 09/01/53 p. 518; Time...Hand p. 129)

Is that right? That's what you claim?

1953? We have move on in our understanding since then, as we presume everyone should. Revelation of truth is progressive as it always has been. We are not stuck in the past, nor do we ever claim infallibility.

How God dealt with the body of Christ is not stated, and speculation is really not needed in this case. All we really know is that Christ did not take back the body he sacrificed. His resurrection was “in the spirit” not the “flesh” that he sacrificed. (1 Peter 3:18)

This is the Bible:

1 John 4:1-3 KJV
1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

"Is come in the flesh" is in the Perfect Tense, which means Jesus remains in flesh.

That is not what Strongs brings out concerning the words you are stressing here….

“Etymology…
Middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred [middle voice] eleuthomai {el-yoo'-thom-ahee}, or [active] eltho {el'-tho}, which do not otherwise occur)”

1. to come
   1. of persons
      1. to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
      2. to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public

So perhaps your definition is not quite accurate…..and it means what it says…..
“Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God”…..and we have no issue with Jesus’ ‘coming in the flesh’ as he was to sacrifice his flesh and blood to redeem us. Nowhere does this suggest that Jesus had to remain in the flesh. In fact his ascension into heaven would have been impossible in a human body. (1 Cor 15:50-53)

1 Corinthians 15:39-40 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Not the same flesh, but a body none the less.

Not a fleshly body at all, since those chosen to rule with Christ in heaven will receive the exact same body.
Angels had to materialize to bring instructions from God to his earthly servants…..they too respected God’s forbidding communication with spirits who were now demons pretending to be what they are not.
By forbidding all communication with spirits, God protected his people from demonic trickery, as long as they were obedient….but as we know from their history…they were not.

So then what are we to conclude about those who thing Jesus' body dissovled into gasses disappearing forever? The Bible says this is the spirit of antichrist. Not me. The Bible says that.

That is what you are suggesting, but it carries no weight when we examine the truth of what the entirety of Scripture says rather than a twisted and very limited version of it.

You quoted the scripture that tells us that there are different kinds of bodies…..and in the invisible realm is an invisible God, with invisible angels….does that mean that they cannot exist because we can’t see them?
They do indeed have bodies, but “celestial” ones…..not material ones.

I think you need to broaden out in your Bible knowledge……it really does answer all our questions….but we have to see everything in the big picture, not just to concentrate on a few verses that keep us shackled to Christendom’s version of events.

There is just one truth, and satan is going to make sure that it looks like lies….he will convince the majority…so if you hold a majority view, you know that you are already in trouble. But if you hold a minority view and you hold it alone, you have just disqualified yourself again. If we have no brotherhood who all believe the same truth, (1 Cor 1:10) we are lost……only God can “draw” us to his truth.….others will be repelled by it, (John 6:44; 65) and hate those who expose their error. (John 15:18-21)

 

[PS95]

You are twisting my words out of defensiveness…..I never said Jesus lied. I said he materialized so as not to offend his disciples who were by law forbidden to communicate with spirits.

The only spirits in existence apart from God, are angels. There are no spirits of the dead because there is no such thing as an immortal soul. The devil has the whole world believing his first lie….”you surely will not die”….when God told Adam that he would simply return to the dust. (Gen 3:19)
The dead are actually dead as God said they would be. (Eccl 9:5, 10) The Bible teaches resurrection, which is a return to life, not a continuation of it somewhere else……a concept which was lost when immortality of the soul was adopted by every false religion. Satan is the author of all of them.

The demons are fallen angels, led by the devil into rebellion….these could no longer materialize after the flood and so became wicked spirits, operating behind the scenes to entrap mankind in the devil’s web of lies and deception. He is a mimic and uses disguised things familiar to man, to lead them down a dark path.

Faithful angels retained the ability to materialize as was demonstrated by their visit to Abraham and Lot. (Gen 18) Daniel and Mary received a visit from Gabriel, some 500 years apart. They always appeared as men. They ate and drank when hospitality was offered, like any other human. But when their mission was done, they dematerialized and returned to the spirit realm.

Only in visions did they appear with wings…..not that they needed wings to transport themselves, but so that humans could comprehend their ability to fly. Only winged creatures could do that in Bible times.

No one is lying…..what I have shown you from the Bible is confronting because of what you have been programmed to believe about Jesus.
He died as a man, and was raised as a spirit (1 Peter 3:18)…..he had the ability (like all faithful spirits) to materialize and he did so on numerous occasions and was not often recognized even by his close associates. On one occasion he was dining with them and he disappeared right before their eyes…..he was not in the human body that was sacrificed, because they only recognized him by the way he broke the bread. (Luke 24:30-31)

The scripture you quoted is Jesus showing his apostles his hands and feet to prove that it was him. Would God have raised his precious son with the damage inflicted by his enemies? if Jesus and the apostles could “cure every sort of disease and infirmity”…why would God raise Jesus in the tortured and damaged body that died? Think about it.

Please just read the accounts and see that Jesus was not in the body he sacrificed when God resurrected him. I don’t think you have any idea how successful the devil has been in taking people away from the simple truths of the Bible, and complicating everything so that confusion and disunity is all we see in the “church” system…..that confusing rabble cannot possibly be a product of God’s spirit.

How can you possibly think it is?

HE SAID, IT IS I MYSELF- TOUCH ME- He put his hands into his WOUNDS. IF IT WAS NOT HIS BODY then he was not truthful.
Or you aren't.
who shall we choose?