No Man has Two Natures of being both Good and Evil

[robert derrick]

The dual nature of man is a spiritual soul and natural body.

There is no such things as having a dual nature of good and evil, righteous and sinful at the same time.

The tree is either good or evil, and man must make a choice to be one or the other, and if no choice is yet made with a fixed heart and made up mind to do one or the other, then they are judged as double hearted by Scripture in Romans 7.

No double minded man is justified by Christ, through the false teaching of being righteous in the soul and serving God in spirit only, while being sinful in the flesh and bones while serving the devil bodily.

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Religion of man is being part lovers of selves more than God and part lovers of God at times: the dual nature theology of having the divine nature within the soul and a sinful nature in the flesh, is a perversion of man created with a spiritual soul and a natural body.

Natural man rejects God and the things of the spirit, and so is spiritually dead in unrighteousness.

Spiritual man believe in a God, either is spiritually alive in righteousness of the true God Jesus Christ, or is spiritual dead in unrighteousness decieved by another god, that is no God.

Man cannot have dual spiritual natures at the same time, one spiritually righteous and unrighteous within the soul, or spiritually righteous within and spiritually sinful in mortal flesh.

The only nature of the physical body is mortality, and there is nothing spiritual about the mortal flesh: Righteousness and sin are spiritual in nature, because only spiritual beings created by Christ have choice to love pleasing God, or to love pleasing themselves.

 

[Charlie24]

The dual nature of man is a spiritual soul and natural body.

There is no such things as having a dual nature of good and evil, righteous and sinful at the same time.

The tree is either good or evil, and man must make a choice to be one or the other, and if no choice is yet made with a fixed heart and made up mind to do one or the other, then they are judged as double hearted by Scripture in Romans 7.

No double minded man is justified by Christ, through the false teaching of being righteous in the soul and serving God in spirit only, while being sinful in the flesh and bones while serving the devil bodily.

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Religion of man is being part lovers of selves more than God and part lovers of God at times: the dual nature theology of having the divine nature within the soul and a sinful nature in the flesh, is a perversion of man created with a spiritual soul and a natural body.

Natural man rejects God and the things of the spirit, and so is spiritually dead in unrighteousness.

Spiritual man believe in a God, either is spiritually alive in righteousness of the true God Jesus Christ, or is spiritual dead in unrighteousness decieved by another god, that is no God.

Man cannot have dual spiritual natures at the same time, one spiritually righteous and unrighteous within the soul, or spiritually righteous within and spiritually sinful in mortal flesh.

The only nature of the physical body is mortality, and there is nothing spiritual about the mortal flesh: Righteousness and sin are spiritual in nature, because only spiritual beings created by Christ have choice to love pleasing God, or to love pleasing themselves.

So many things to discuss here, rd!

We are all born with a sin nature. When we are born-again through faith in Christ, that sin nature is not taken away.

Paul said in Rom. 6:12,

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."

Paul is talking to believers! The key word here for our discussion is "reign."

The sin that could and will "reign" is the sin nature.

Then Paul said in vs. 14, "For sin shall not have dominion over you."

This is the sin nature that will reign over the believer if we try to live by Law, any Law, whether the Law of Christ or the Law of Moses or any Law you make for yourself.

Now let's finish vs. 14 "...for you are not under Law, but under Grace.?

Grace is ever flowing to the believer if faith is exercised in Christ. It is the Holy Spirit working though the total surrender of the believer to overcome sin that it will not have dominion over you, in other words, the sin nature will not "reign over you. It will lay dormant when you don't depend on self effort.

Those under Law were expected to try and keep the Law. This is how "the Law pointed to Christ," they were to see they couldn't keep the Law and turn to the sacrifice of an innocent animal (representing Christ) to find forgiveness of sins. But yet they were still bound to keeping the Law! The way out for them was the Sacrifice.

For us who are not under Law, we are to depend totally on the Holy Spirit to do the work, where it was just the opposite for those under the Law.

So many, many things to understand to understand the sin nature! This is just a part of it!

 

[robert derrick]

So many things to discuss here, rd!

We are all born with a sin nature. When we are born-again through faith in Christ, that sin nature is not taken away.

Paul said in Rom. 6:12,

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."

Paul is talking to believers! The key word here for our discussion is "reign."

The sin that could and will "reign" is the sin nature.

Then Paul said in vs. 14, "For sin shall not have dominion over you."

This is the sin nature that will reign over the believer if we try to live by Law, any Law, whether the Law of Christ or the Law of Moses or any Law you make for yourself.

Now let's finish vs. 14 "...for you are not under Law, but under Grace.?

Grace is ever flowing to the believer if faith is exercised in Christ. It is the Holy Spirit working though the total surrender of the believer to overcome sin that it will not have dominion over you, in other words, the sin nature will not "reign over you. It will lay dormant when you don't depend on self effort.

Those under Law were expected to try and keep the Law. This is how "the Law pointed to Christ," they were to see they couldn't keep the Law and turn to the sacrifice of an innocent animal (representing Christ) to find forgiveness of sins. But yet they were still bound to keeping the Law! The way out for them was the Sacrifice.

For us who are not under Law, we are to depend totally on the Holy Spirit to do the work, where it was just the opposite for those under the Law.

So many, many things to understand to understand the sin nature! This is just a part of it!

This sin nature or spirit you speak of. Where did it come from? Who created it?

 

[Charlie24]

This sin nature or spirit you speak of. Where did it come from? Who created it?

The sin nature fell on man the very instant he sinned in the Garden. Now all who are born of the seed of man have the sin nature because Adam and Eve brought sin into this world.

If you want to see the sin nature at work, put two toddlers into a single playpen with one rubber ducky.

You will see the sin nature in its rawist form!

 

[robert derrick]

The sin nature fell on man the very instant he sinned in the Garden. Now all who are born of the seed of man have the sin nature because Adam and Eve brought sin into this world.

If you want to see the sin nature at work, put two toddlers into a single playpen with one rubber ducky.

You will see the sin nature in its rawist form!

The question was where did this sin nature come from. Who created it?

You say it fell on man. Where from?

You suggest it is in the physical seed of man now after Adam sinned, as though it wasn't there when God first created the body of man.

Is it a spirit created and put in the seed of man?

Who created this sin nature or spirit and put it in the seed of man?

 

[Charlie24]

The question was where did this sin nature come from. Who created it?

You say it fell on man. Where from?

You suggest it is in the physical seed of man now after Adam sinned, as though it wasn't there when God first created the body of man.

Is it a spirit created and put in the seed of man?

Who created this sin nature or spirit and put it in the seed of man?

It came from the result of disobeying God. Did not God say, 'if you eat of this tree you shall surely die?"

That is the spiritual death, and that leads to a physical death all because of disobeying a perfect God.

The idea is as I have stated at least twice in these threads, Adam and Eve were created in a perfect state of being.

They were innocent, not knowing what sin was. When they disobeyed God, they fell from that innocent state to the state of being aware of sin. That is called the state of living in sin, the state of a nature of sin.

God already knew this would happen and already had a plan for the redemption of man.

God could speak the worlds into existence from nothing, but He could not speak away the sin of man!

 

[Charlie24]

It came from the result of disobeying God. Did not God say, 'if you eat of this tree you shall surely die?"

That is the spiritual death, and that leads to a physical death all because of disobeying a perfect God.

The idea is as I have stated at least twice in these threads, Adam and Eve were created in a perfect state of being.

They were innocent, not knowing what sin was. When they disobeyed God, they fell from that innocent state to the state of being aware of sin. That is called the state of living in sin, the state of a nature of sin.

God already knew this would happen and already had a plan for the redemption of man.

God could speak the worlds into existence from nothing, but He could not speak away the sin of man!

Every problem that exists in this world is because of sin! Every disease, every birth defect, any and every problem in your life came from sin entering this world.

All death and sickness is the result of sin! And on top of that you are born into this state of existence doomed, with no hope, all because of sin. But thank God He didn't leave us in this condition, He made a way for us to have the ultimate victory over sin through His redemption plan that would place His Son in our place for that sin.

Christ took upon Himself the punishment of our sins, the just for the unjust.

What kind of love is that? I don't know what it is, but I have a Teacher who is showing it to me, and one day I will understand that love.

 

[robert derrick]

It came from the result of disobeying God. Did not God say, 'if you eat of this tree you shall surely die?"

Ok, so now you are saying death is the sin nature, that is now in the physical seed and flesh of man's body?

 

[Charlie24]

Ok, so now you are saying death is the sin nature, that is now in the physical seed and flesh of man's body?

NO! That's not what I'm saying! I'm saying that sin against God brought man down from the state of perfection in the Garden to the state of living in his sin in man's new nature, his new state of being. That new state of being is living in the nature of sin.

Man has fallen from one state of being to another!

 

[BeyondET]

The dual nature of man is a spiritual soul and natural body.

There is no such things as having a dual nature of good and evil, righteous and sinful at the same time.

The tree is either good or evil, and man must make a choice to be one or the other, and if no choice is yet made with a fixed heart and made up mind to do one or the other, then they are judged as double hearted by Scripture in Romans 7.

No double minded man is justified by Christ, through the false teaching of being righteous in the soul and serving God in spirit only, while being sinful in the flesh and bones while serving the devil bodily.

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Religion of man is being part lovers of selves more than God and part lovers of God at times: the dual nature theology of having the divine nature within the soul and a sinful nature in the flesh, is a perversion of man created with a spiritual soul and a natural body.

Natural man rejects God and the things of the spirit, and so is spiritually dead in unrighteousness.

Spiritual man believe in a God, either is spiritually alive in righteousness of the true God Jesus Christ, or is spiritual dead in unrighteousness decieved by another god, that is no God.

Man cannot have dual spiritual natures at the same time, one spiritually righteous and unrighteous within the soul, or spiritually righteous within and spiritually sinful in mortal flesh.

The only nature of the physical body is mortality, and there is nothing spiritual about the mortal flesh: Righteousness and sin are spiritual in nature, because only spiritual beings created by Christ have choice to love pleasing God, or to love pleasing themselves.

I guess your the second man who doesn't sin huh.

 

[robert derrick]

NO! That's not what I'm saying!

And so, you won't say who created this sin nature, but only how it was created. And yet, you must acknowledge it was created, since it was not there in the beginning of creation. Which means it had to have been created by someone, since it was not created by Christ in the beginning.

And so, you will not say who that someone is, because it is is not Christ, then John 1 is rejected, so that there is another Creator and Maker of anything spiritual or natural.

Nothing not created by Christ can therefore be anything at all, since all things were and are created by Him the same yesterday, today, and for ever.

Neither Christ, nor Adam, nor the devil changed the nature of man's seed and flesh, which was and is still being created by Christ the same as He did in the beginning: good, yet mortal.

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

All creatures created by Christ are still being created for His good pleasure, which therefore cannot be created with any sin, which would make all such creatures sinful when created: Created by Christ sinfully.

God is not a God who creates sinful beings for His good pleasure of tempting them to sin by their own created nature, just so that God could have pleasure in judging them sinners: God is not the devil.

That is the lie of the devil, that foolish man speaks of when accusing God with the stupid question: Why does God judge man, since He created man that way?

That question would be legitimate, if God indeed creates man that way: sinners from the womb. This lie is rebuked by James 1:

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

So, let's look at the Scripture without imputing a 'sin nature' into its' interpretation:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

Sinning entered into the world, and still does, when any soul on earth is sinning. There is no sin spirit entered into the world as in the air to breathe with natural noses. Nor has it been created and entered into man's seed and flesh, because Christ does not create it.

The devil and spirit of this world is not sin, but is the fallen angel that tempts man to sin as He did against God from the beginning.

It is death that passes upon every soul by sinning, not before. No Scripture says sin passes upon every soul, neither at creation nor birth, which is still by Christ the Creator and Maker of all things in heaven and in earth, yesterday and today.

And it is spiritual death only that passes upon every soul that sins, and not before:

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Death passes upon all natural mortal flesh of all living creatures on earth, because that is the way Christ created all flesh, even as grass: mortal, Not righteous nor sinful.

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field.

Natural beasts of the field cannot sin, because they are not spiritual beings with power to choose to do good or evil.

All good and evil, righteousness and sinfulness, is spiritual in nature, because it can only be done by spiritual beings created by God in His image, not to sin, but to please Him.

Jesus was the only man born with mortal flesh by seed of man, that did not sin from His youth and so did not spiritually die on earth. (That natrual mortal seed being of David, who was of Jacob, who was of Abraham, who was of Noah, who was of Adam.)

And those toddlers are not sinning and transgressing the law of Christ, unless they have already learned to curse each other.

Natural competition is no more sinning, than two of my pooches wrestling over a doggie toy.

Just because it's natural in mortal bodies, does not make it sinful, no more than burping, or tripping over a stone.

I'm saying that sin against God brought man down from the state of perfection in the Garden

There never was any 'state' of perfection in God's natural creation, because it is all made mortal, though good. The Lord simply planted a garden for Himself and Adam, at a certain place on earth. That did not make it a place of perfection on earth. Though more beautiful than elsewhere no doubt. If it were made in a perfect 'state', then why all the dressing and keeping?

All men are created equally good and clean by Christ, but no man was ever created perfected in mind and body. Neither the mind nor the body of Jesus was perfected from the womb. Otherwise, He would never have ever thought any unrighteous thing and so be tempted to do it in spirit and in flesh. All temptation is tempting thoughts in the minds of men, and Jesus was tempted in all points like as we, and so His mind remained clean and new from His youth, but not yet perfected until the resurrection of His dead mortal body. That is the blessed hope of the church to be perfected in spirit and mind and body like as He.

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.

If Adam had been created perfected in mind and body, then as with the resurrected Christ, he could not have sinned, because he could not have been tempted to sin in his perfected mind.

Man has fallen from one state of being to another!

True. All babes born into the world are still created and made by Christ pure as the wind-driven snow, since no babe can sin, until becoming a youth when learning to do good or evil, righteousness or sinning.

And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

This is proof, that even before the flood, sinful imagination and thought was not from the womb, but only from man's youth: sinning is learned, not born with.

A feeding baby swinging his arms without knowledge against the food, is NOT proof of a sin nature.

When the youth sins, only then he is fallen from the perfectly pure spiritual being created by Christ in the lowest parts of the earth.

This is why being born again is becoming as little children again, to once again become as a newborn babe pure and clean of heart, spirit, mind, and body, though not from the mother's womb again.

 

[robert derrick]

I guess your the second man who doesn't sin huh.

And you're just another accuser that doesn't like any Scripture taught, that conflicts with your own mind and imagination.

If you'd like clarification, or have a reasonable correction about the teaching, I'd be glad to see it.

 

[Charlie24]

And so, you won't say who created this sin nature, but only how it was created. And yet, you must acknowledge it was created, since it was not there in the beginning of creation. Which means it had to have been created by someone, since it was not created by Christ in the beginning.

And so, you will not say who that someone is, because it is is not Christ, then John 1 is rejected, so that there is another Creator and Maker of anything spiritual or natural.

Nothing not created by Christ can therefore be anything at all, since all things were and are created by Him the same yesterday, today, and for ever.

Neither Christ, nor Adam, nor the devil changed the nature of man's seed and flesh, which was and is still being created by Christ the same as He did in the beginning: good, yet mortal.

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

All creatures created by Christ are still being created for His good pleasure, which therefore cannot be created with any sin, which would make all such creatures sinful when created: Created by Christ sinfully.

God is not a God who creates sinful beings for His good pleasure of tempting them to sin by their own created nature, just so that God could have pleasure in judging them sinners: God is not the devil.

That is the lie of the devil, that foolish man speaks of when accusing God with the stupid question: Why does God judge man, since He created man that way?

That question would be legitimate, if God indeed creates man that way: sinners from the womb. This lie is rebuked by James 1:

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

So, let's look at the Scripture without imputing a 'sin nature' into its' interpretation:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

Sinning entered into the world, and still does, when any soul on earth is sinning. There is no sin spirit entered into the world as in the air to breathe with natural noses. Nor has it been created and entered into man's seed and flesh, because Christ does not create it.

The devil and spirit of this world is not sin, but is the fallen angel that tempts man to sin as He did against God from the beginning.

It is death that passes upon every soul by sinning, not before. No Scripture says sin passes upon every soul, neither at creation nor birth, which is still by Christ the Creator and Maker of all things in heaven and in earth, yesterday and today.

And it is spiritual death only that passes upon every soul that sins, and not before:

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Death passes upon all natural mortal flesh of all living creatures on earth, because that is the way Christ created all flesh, even as grass: mortal, Not righteous nor sinful.

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field.

Natural beasts of the field cannot sin, because they are not spiritual beings with power to choose to do good or evil.

All good and evil, righteousness and sinfulness, is spiritual in nature, because it can only be done by spiritual beings created by God in His image, not to sin, but to please Him.

Jesus was the only man born with mortal flesh by seed of man, that did not sin from His youth and so did not spiritually die on earth. (That natrual mortal seed being of David, who was of Jacob, who was of Abraham, who was of Noah, who was of Adam.)

And those toddlers are not sinning and transgressing the law of Christ, unless they have already learned to curse each other.

Natural competition is no more sinning, than two of my pooches wrestling over a doggie toy.

Just because it's natural in mortal bodies, does not make it sinful, no more than burping, or tripping over a stone.



There never was any 'state' of perfection in God's natural creation, because it is all made mortal, though good. The Lord simply planted a garden for Himself and Adam, at a certain place on earth. That did not make it a place of perfection on earth. Though more beautiful than elsewhere no doubt. If it were made in a perfect 'state', then why all the dressing and keeping?

All men are created equally good and clean by Christ, but no man was ever created perfected in mind and body. Neither the mind nor the body of Jesus was perfected from the womb. Otherwise, He would never have ever thought any unrighteous thing and so be tempted to do it in spirit and in flesh. All temptation is tempting thoughts in the minds of men, and Jesus was tempted in all points like as we, and so His mind remained clean and new from His youth, but not yet perfected until the resurrection of His dead mortal body. That is the blessed hope of the church to be perfected in spirit and mind and body like as He.

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.

If Adam had been created perfected in mind and body, then as with the resurrected Christ, he could not have sinned, because he could not have been tempted to sin in his perfected mind.



True. All babes born into the world are still created and made by Christ pure as the wind-driven snow, since no babe can sin, until becoming a youth when learning to do good or evil, righteousness or sinning.

And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

This is proof, that even before the flood, sinful imagination and thought was not from the womb, but only from man's youth: sinning is learned, not born with.

A feeding baby swinging his arms without knowledge against the food, is NOT proof of a sin nature.

When the youth sins, only then he is fallen from the perfectly pure spiritual being created by Christ in the lowest parts of the earth.

This is why being born again is becoming as little children again, to once again become as a newborn babe pure and clean of heart, spirit, mind, and body, though not from the mother's womb again.

You don't want to believe there is a sin nature, that's fine with me.

It looks as though the only thing we have in common throughout the Scripture is that Christ is the Lord and Saviour of mankind.

That's good enough for me.

 

[BeyondET]

And you're just another accuser that doesn't like any Scripture taught, that conflicts with your own mind and imagination.

If you'd like clarification, or have a reasonable correction about the teaching, I'd be glad to see it.

Alot of assumption there.
So tell me have you ever sinned after knowing Christ?

 

[BeyondET]

Who created this sin nature or spirit and put it in the seed of man?

Adam and Eve

 

[robert derrick]

You don't want to believe there is a sin nature, that's fine with me.

It looks as though the only thing we have in common throughout the Scripture is that Christ is the Lord and Saviour of mankind.

That's good enough for me.

Agreed.

 

[robert derrick]

Adam and Eve

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The only man that ever created anything spiritual or natural is Christ.

 

[robert derrick]

Agreed.

This is an example of a difference being doctrinal only, and has nothing to do with the life lived, nor fellowship in the Spirit.

And so we each teach what we believe and why, and then move on.

No man has to believe there is a sin nature or not, but only not living like it.

 

[Charlie24]

This is an example of a difference being doctrinal only, and has nothing to do with the life lived, nor fellowship in the Spirit.

And so we each teach what we believe and why, and then move on.

No man has to believe there is a sin nature or not, but only not living like it.

I see Paul plainly telling us we have a sin nature, and telling us what to do about it.

That would make a good thread, I think.

When I get the time, I will put that together and we can take a look at it.

Compare doctrine to doctrine to scripture.

 

[robert derrick]

I see Paul plainly telling us we have a sin nature, and telling us what to do about it.

That would make a good thread, I think.

When I get the time, I will put that together and we can take a look at it.

Compare doctrine to doctrine to scripture.

Look me up personally to let me know, so I won't miss it.

I won't argue with you about it, but I may ask you questions to clarify anything.