No More Death

[David in NJ]

Yes Jesus returns in fire, vengeance, and destruction (The End)

You then allude to survivors mentioned in Zechariah 14:16 as if mortal human bodies are present, in your claim of a millennial kingdom on this earth "False"

i never alluded to anything = not once

God said this (not me) "Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year
to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles."

Last time i checked it is not advisable to go against God's words.

 

[ewq1938]

When was Jesus historically "Revealed" in fire as seen below as you claim?

That passage doesn't say Jesus is revealed in fire. It mentions Sodom, a localized NOT GLOBAL killing by fire. The bible also says the same about a flood but you don't mention that because it shows you are not interpreting the passage properly.

 

[David in NJ]

@Taken @ewq1938 = Good Nite

 

[Truth7t7]

i never alluded to anything = not once

God said this (not me) "Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year
to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles."

Last time i checked it is not advisable to go against God's words.

Yes Jesus returns in fire, vengeance, and destruction (The End)

You then allude to those who are left in Zechariah 14:16 as if mortal human bodies are present, in your claim of a millennial kingdom on this earth "False"

Zechariah 14:16 Who Will Be Left Of The Nations?​

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 21:24-27KJV
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Taken]

@Taken @ewq1938 = Good Nite

Ditto God Bless.

 

[Earburner]

The wicked will suffer eternal conscious torment in the lake of fire as scripture clearly teaches

The following fictitious analogy, is going to be hard to take in, if anyone here is an animal lover.

About three years ago, my neighbor's dog was viciously attacked and killed by a stray dog, that came into the neighborhood, scrounging around for food.
The owner of the attacked dog, took out his gun and shot the stray dog, which ran off into the woods yelping in pain. For along time, I often wondered if the stray dog had moved out of the area, and went elsewhere, or just died out in the depth of the woods.

In those woods, I would occasionally take a walk out into the nature of it all, walking the numerous trails of the area. On a few of my walks in the quiet if the woods, I prepared myself, that I might find the stray dog dead.

Though that never happened to find him dead in those three years, numerous times in the shadows of the trees, I would hear whimpering behind me, of an animal suffering and then go silent. Often I looked back and saw nothing. A couple of times, I even backtracked my steps, thinking that I might find the source of the whimpering, but I would find nothing. In each of those moments, I just resigned myself to fact that my mind was playing tricks on me, and then shrugged it off.

Finally, on one of my walks in the woods, again the whimpering briefly trailed me. I turned suddenly, only to see a starving dog, appearing behind me, partially limping and at times, dragging his hind quarters, of which appeared to be partially paralyzed. I cried out in my heart and mind: "It's the stray dog, still alive, but has been suffering in torment and anguish for these past three years."

(As it is with saved and the unsaved, there are only two solutions.)
In the story above, what should I do?
1. End the stray dog's life, and put him out of his misery?
2. Ignore him and walk on, deciding to never walk in the woods again?

Which decision shows mercy?
Did you discover in your choice of the only two solutions available, that you favorably chose #1, and therefore you are more merciful than how you portray our Savior?

For all the living in mortal life, after death, hell is the grave, and nothing more. No one who is unsaved after mortal death, has any form of eternal existence of any kind.
The unsaved in their graves shall be burned up, for death and hell will be cast into the lake of fire.

Genesis tells us plainly that "man became a living soul", he didn't receive one.

 

[Truth7t7]

For all the living in mortal life, after death, hell is the grave, and nothing more. No one who is unsaved after mortal death, has any form of eternal existence of any kind.
The unsaved in their graves shall be burned up, for death and hell will be cast into the lake of fire.

Your claim is "False" as you teach the Jehovah's Witness false doctrine of Annihilation, "Reader Beware"!

The wicked will be conscious and eternally tormented as scripture clearly teaches below

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[Earburner]

Yes Jesus returns in fire, vengeance, and destruction (The End)

You then allude to those who are left in Zechariah 14:16 as if mortal human bodies are present, in your claim of a millennial kingdom on this earth "False"

Zechariah 14:16 Who Will Be Left Of The Nations?​

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 21:24-27KJV
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Amen! Very good alignment of the scriptures, in revealing that ever since Pentecost, we all who are of faith in Christ, during our lifetimes, have been going up from year to year, to worship the King in Spirit, keeping the Feast of Tabernacles, in the temporary dwellings of God (our treasure), in our earthen vessels
John 4
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 14
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[rwb]

Making false accusations are contrary to fellowship in Christ and Truth.

David, I'm basing my opinion on my observations of our discussions here. It's not that you are being dishonest with me, but with yourself. The Bible presents Christ as the first resurrection of the dead that man must have part in before they die, which can only be achieved by being born again. That means the first resurrection that assures man has overcome the second death it NOT physical. You know this and still you continue to cling to the lie, saying the first resurrection is physical and not yet come. Who is being honest here, and who is clinging to that which is false?

 

[Earburner]

Your claim is "False" as you teach the Jehovah's Witness false doctrine of Annihilation, "Reader Beware"!

The wicked will be conscious and eternally tormented as scripture clearly teaches below

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Rev. 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the  SMOKE of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

I would have you pay attention to two points in the above verses:
10. In the Day of the Lord's Glorious return in flaming/consuming fire, all who are alive at that time will most definitely find themselves to be suddenly in His presence.

11. "Smoke" is the results of that which is burning or has been burned. Therefore symbolically, the RESULTS OF the unsaved being consumed by God's eternal fire, is the torment of their burning, and shall be all that will be left of them.

By the way, smoke (carbon) never is destroyed, it only dissipates into the atmosphere and/or remains on the earth as "soot", until the entirety of the elements of the earth melts with fervent heat. 2 Peter 3.

What is smoke?

What is smoke and why do some fires seem to have more smoke than others?

www.sciencelearn.org.nz

Edit: please know also that there is no such thing as "day and night" in Eternity.

 

[Earburner]

Your claim is "False" as you teach the Jehovah's Witness false doctrine of Annihilation, "Reader Beware"!

Evidently, you are not aware that:
"no single one church has ALL of His truth, but rather ALL the churches have SOME of His truth"- Earburner

Therefore, by His Spirit, there will be times that I may sound like I am Catholic, Baptist, Jehovah Witness, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, Lutheran, etc.

So yes, let the "Reader Beware". By the Lord's Holy Spirit, I am not hobbled or maimed by a single church's doctrine of men.

 

[Truth7t7]

Amen! Very good alignment of the scriptures, in revealing that ever since Pentecost, we all who are of faith in Christ, during our lifetimes, have been going up from year to year, to worship the King in Spirit, keeping the Feast of Tabernacles, in the temporary dwellings of God (our treasure), in our earthen vessels
John 4
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 14
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I disagree, the feast of tabernacles will be observed in the new heaven and earth, just as the new moons and sabbath days will

 

[ewq1938]

Edit: please know also that there is no such thing as "day and night" in Eternity.

Of course there is. The sun will still exist which means part of the world will be in darkness as it is today.

 

[Earburner]

Of course there is. The sun will still exist which means part of the world will be in darkness as it is today.

I am positive that there will be no more day and night upon the The Day of the Lord's visible appearance, in all His Glory.
1. Just by the brightness of His presence, His Light is so bright, it will eclipse and block out the Sun and the Moon, not to mention the stars.

After our being changed/resurrected into the bodily likeness of His Immortality, He will take us, so that we may be WHERE He is. At that moment, He will be in heaven, not on the earth. The feet of Jesus, in His 1st manifestation have already walked on and about The Mount of Olive, in fact He spent His nights there, resting and sleeping.

2. Rev. 21
[22] And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
[23] And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
[24] And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
[25] And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
[26] And they [the nations of them which are saved] shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

3. 2 Peter 3
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, where-IN dwelleth righteousness.**

** Clue: 2 Cor. 4
[7] But we have this [His] treasure [of Himself] [with-] in EARTHen vessels [our mortal bodies], that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Edit: in our temporary mortal earthen vessels, God is temporarily "tabernacling" within us by His Holy Spirit, through the veil of Jesus (being that of HIS flesh), whereby we are for now, only PARTakers of His divine nature. As a result, God Himself, as well as we are looking forward to the Day when we also will be changed/resurrected into the likeness of the immortality of Jesus

 

[Earburner]

The new heaven and new earth, as I understand it, will still be like that which God created in the beginning when He created the heaven and earth. A physical globe, created for physical life that He also created to inhabit the earth. Why would God resurrect the faithful from the graves to physical immortality and incorruptible flesh to inherit the new earth, if we are already the new earth?

Oh, I see. You are looking for a "restoration", a make over of this old earth, aka a remodel. That doesn't describe the word NEW to me. Are you a NEW creature in Christ Jesus, or just a make over of the OLD creature?

I have to admit, I have heard Christian preachers/teachers using the word "restore" in place of the words "born again by His Spirit". To me, it is subtily deceptive.

To be restored, is to be brought back to a previous condition or position, of how things once were. In "the wisdom of men", that may be how they see it. However, from our position now, of being exceedingly sinful and desperately wicked, our being restored back to God, by simply believing about Jesus and copying His ways, isn't going to do it. We must have the literal Spirit of Christ living within us. Rom. 8:8-9.

Because of our sinfulness, we are dead to God. To Him there is no other way, except that we must be literally born again by His Spirit, thus becoming a whole NEW creature. John 3:3-8. Rev. 3:20, Luke 11:13, Rom. 8:9.

Simply believing about Jesus, without asking for the Gift of His Holy Spirit to permanently dwell within us, is just an empty and vain religious act of water baptism, which saves no one.
It reminds me of the "five foolish virgins", who trusted in their own good works, as being their "badge of approval", for God to allow them to enter into heaven, not knowing that the time for "entering into Heaven" was now past, before His visible return from heaven. All of such will be declared as being "none of his", remaining to be "condemned already". John 3:18.

 

[MatthewG]

In an acknowledgment of Jesus having returned and rescued the bride of Christ already, what would be the remains?

There is no more spiritual death.

It is strange why people wanna try to work out a way not to actually experience death, I suppose it is the only thing facing you with the according fact; that all your family who was before you, have most likely all died off.
Jesus also died. You will die, and leave this world.

In another aspect to while Living on earth we are to die to the ways of the earthly and focus and live in faith of the ways of the heavenly.


Death. It’s been taken care of, but you still choose to die here and live towards God, or you die here without God in spiritual death; but will be raised again; given a either a condemned or a life spiritual body by God.

From the aspect of John the Beloved in the revelation; there will be after this life a kingdom that has 12 gates that never close with faithful going in, and non-faithful living outside the kingdom.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why would God resurrect the faithful from the graves to physical immortality and incorruptible flesh to inherit the new earth, if we are already the new earth?

Your claim is "False" a new creation will be revealed, in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, as Revelation 21:1-5 clearly explains

Your claim "we are already the new earth" is "Laughable"!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[ewq1938]

I am positive that there will be no more day and night upon the The Day of the Lord's visible appearance, in all His Glory.

There is nothing in the bible about there being no day or night in the eternity except in New Jerusalem where night doesn't exist because of the light there.

 

[Truth7t7]

There is nothing in the bible about there being no day or night in the eternity except in New Jerusalem where night doesn't exist because of the light there.

I Agree 100%

 

[rwb]

Oh, I see. You are looking for a "restoration", a make over of this old earth, aka a remodel. That doesn't describe the word NEW to me. Are you a NEW creature in Christ Jesus, or just a make over of the OLD creature?

I have to admit, I have heard Christian preachers/teachers using the word "restore" in place of the words "born again by His Spirit". To me, it is subtily deceptive.

To be restored, is to be brought back to a previous condition or position, of how things once were. In "the wisdom of men", that may be how they see it. However, from our position now, of being exceedingly sinful and desperately wicked, our being restored back to God, by simply believing about Jesus and copying His ways, isn't going to do it. We must have the literal Spirit of Christ living within us. Rom. 8:8-9.

Because of our sinfulness, we are dead to God. To Him there is no other way, except that we must be literally born again by His Spirit, thus becoming a whole NEW creature. John 3:3-8. Rev. 3:20, Luke 11:13, Rom. 8:9.

Simply believing about Jesus, without asking for the Gift of His Holy Spirit to permanently dwell within us, is just an empty and vain religious act of water baptism, which saves no one.
It reminds me of the "five foolish virgins", who trusted in their own good works, as being their "badge of approval", for God to allow them to enter into heaven, not knowing that the time for "entering into Heaven" was now past, before His visible return from heaven. All of such will be declared as being "none of his", remaining to be "condemned already". John 3:18.

Christ says, "I make all things new" (Rev 21:5). That tells me nothing will be as it became after the fall of mankind but will once more be as it was at creation "very good". To be made new is to be without sin for those who were, not are, dead in trespasses and sins. We are not waiting to be born again of the Spirit, we have already been born again if the Spirit dwells in us.