No-one has gone to heaven?

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Earburner

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Seems like this would fit with the parable of the lost sheep, not the other two you mentioned.
Ok, back to the two parables I posted, with His understanding by His own words:
Mat. 13[44] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Q. Who is symbolized as the "treasure"?
A. All believers.
Q. What is symbolized as the "field" ?
A. This world.
Q. Who sold/traded all that he had, to purchase the field?
A. Jesus


[45] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
[46] Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Q. Who is the "merchant man" ?
A. Jesus!
Q. Who is/are the pearl(s) of great price/cost?
A. All believers, even if there was only one to be saved. (Consider Noah and the seven other souls).
Q. Who went and sold/traded all that he had?
A. Jesus! He is symbolized as the merchant man.

> In all the above, Jesus is talking about Himself doing the purchasing, not you or I.
Please see Isaiah 55:8-9 and John 16:13

Jesus laid down his life for His friends, who are us who believe in Him, as shown in the following:

John 15[13] Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

John 10[11] I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
[15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

> In all the above, Jesus is talking about Himself laying down His life, not you or I
Please see Isaiah 55:8-9 and John 16:13.
 

Earburner

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Mat. 20[28] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1 Tim. 2[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
[6] Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

>So, what was the "ransom" "of great price", that Jesus paid?
A. HIs life, by the shedding of His Innocent Blood.
Q. What did He "purchase"?
A. The world.

Q. What was "hid" in the world?
A. "A treasure".
Q. Who/what is that treasure?
A. You and I, and every other believer.

Q. What is the " treasure" also known as?
A. "goodly pearls".
 

Renniks

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Ok, back to the two parables I posted, with His understanding by His own words:
Mat. 13[44] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Q. Who is symbolized as the "treasure"?
A. All believers.
Q. What is symbolized as the "field" ?
A. This world.
Q. Who sold/traded all that he had, to purchase the field?
A. Jesus


[45] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
[46] Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Q. Who is the "merchant man" ?
A. Jesus!
Q. Who is/are the pearl(s) of great price/cost?
A. All believers, even if there was only one to be saved. (Consider Noah and the seven other souls).
Q. Who went and sold/traded all that he had?
A. Jesus! He is symbolized as the merchant man.

> In all the above, Jesus is talking about Himself doing the purchasing, not you or I.
Please see Isaiah 55:8-9 and John 16:13

Jesus laid down his life for His friends, who are us who believe in Him, as shown in the following:

John 15[13] Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

John 10[11] I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
[15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

> In all the above, Jesus is talking about Himself laying down His life, not you or I
Please see Isaiah 55:8-9 and John 16:13.
I find that an unlikely translation.
 

Harvest 1874

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One of those false doctrines is universalism.
Are you a universalist?

No we are not Universalist. We believe that the ransom sacrifice of Christ is sufficient for the sins of all men, and as such all men have been saved from the Adamic curse which resides upon them all, this however does not guarantee eternal salvation to any, that will be dependent upon the individual themselves when tried.
 

Earburner

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I find that an unlikely translation.
At the moment, of course you do! The way most are taught by Religion is just the opposite.
And of course you would accept their teaching, because their orientation is to copy/mimic Him by their own form of righteousness, of which they heap upon you.
Think on this: John 5[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Yes, even in the NT scriptures!

So then, have YOU understood Isaiah 55:8-9, in conjunction with John 16:13?
 

Waiting on him

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At the moment, of course you do! The way most are taught by Religion is just the opposite.
And of course you would accept their teaching, because their orientation is to copy/mimic Him by their own form of righteousness, of which they heap upon you.
Think on this: John 5[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Yes, even in the NT scriptures!

So then, have YOU understood Isaiah 55:8-9, in conjunction with John 16:13?
Revelation 4:1 KJV
[1] After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.


Tecarta Bible
 

Earburner

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Consider the fact
No we are not Universalist. We believe that the ransom sacrifice of Christ is sufficient for the sins of all men, and as such all men have been saved from the Adamic curse which resides upon them all, this however does not guarantee eternal salvation to any, that will be dependent upon the individual themselves when tried.
John 3:18 1 John 5:12-13 and Romans 8:8-9 vehemently speak contrary to your form of belief in God's salvation through Christ.
Proof of being eternally saved, for all who are tried: Matthew 24:24. John 10:28-29.
 

Earburner

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Revelation 4:1 KJV
[1] After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.


Tecarta Bible
Is not that "door" Jesus Himself? John 10:7-9

For all who are born again, they have entered into the KoG (come up hither) spiritually, and are being shown things which must be hereafter.
 

Earburner

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^ Also, consider the words of Paul in how we are to understand the words "come up hither":
Eph. 2[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Are you and I in heavenly places? Well, not physically as of yet, but in Christ we are now sitting in heavenly places in Christ, spiritually.
 
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Renniks

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No we are not Universalist. We believe that the ransom sacrifice of Christ is sufficient for the sins of all men, and as such all men have been saved from the Adamic curse which resides upon them all, this however does not guarantee eternal salvation to any, that will be dependent upon the individual themselves when tried.
Do you always refer to yourself as " we"? Just curious. It has a certain Golum type weirdness to it.
 

Renniks

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Consider the fact

John 3:18 1 John 5:12-13 and Romans 8:8-9 vehemently speak contrary to your form of belief in God's salvation through Christ.
Proof of being eternally saved, for all who are tried: Matthew 24:24. John 10:28-29.
Are you Calvinist? OSAS is also a translation that requires some serious gymnastics, such as leaping over all the warning verses about falling away.
 

Harvest 1874

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Do you always refer to yourself as " we"? Just curious. It has a certain Golum type weirdness to it.

As the body is composed of many members so we are all one body in Christ. As grapes when making wine are crushed and lose their individuality, so we likewise lose our individuality and are one in Christ.
 

Earburner

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Are you Calvinist? OSAS is also a translation that requires some serious gymnastics, such as leaping over all the warning verses about falling away.
In the parable of the wheat and the tares, it is critical to note, that even the "servants" (church) don't know who are the wheat and who are the tares.
Iows, many have a profession of faith as being a Christian, but they do not have God's Holy Spirit within them. Romans 8:8-9.
Matthew 13[27] So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
[28] He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
[29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Those that do "fall away" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) will be those professing Christians who will take the mark of the Beast just before the Lord returns from Heaven. The MoB will be the tool that separates ("gathers") the "Tares into bundles" from the Wheat, and shall be burned upon the Lord's return
"in flaming fire"
 

Renniks

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In the parable of the wheat and the tares, it is critical to note, that even the "servants" (church) don't know who are the wheat and who are the tares.
Iows, many have a profession of faith as being a Christian, but they do not have God's Holy Spirit within them. Romans 8:8-9.
Matthew 13[27] So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
[28] He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
[29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Those that do "fall away" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) will be those professing Christians who will take the mark of the Beast just before the Lord returns from Heaven. The MoB will be the tool that separates ("gathers") the "Tares into bundles" from the Wheat, and shall be burned upon the Lord's return
"in flaming fire"

The wheat and tares are one thing, and true Christians falling away is another.
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

You can not depart from something you never possessed.


Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

You must continue in the faith. It is entirely possible to renounce your faith and fall into falsehoods.
 

Earburner

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Of course, pretty basic stuff. But your translation is still unlikely, and why does it matter to this discussion?
Did Jesus purchase you, or did you purchase Jesus?
In either case, who was it that "sold/traded ALL that he had and bought it"?

Did you buy Jesus, who is the pearl, or did Jesus buy you, who is the pearl?

You know the cost of what Jesus paid! It was all that He had.
Do you know the cost of what you paid?
Was it ALL of what you had?
 

Earburner

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The wheat and tares are one thing, and true Christians falling away is another.
That's my point! True born again Christians cannot "fall away" from faith! They ARE the Wheat. All others are Tares.
Romans 8:8-9 explains it completely!
[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 

Harvest 1874

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Consider the fact

John 3:18 1 John 5:12-13 and Romans 8:8-9 vehemently speak contrary to your form of belief in God's salvation through Christ.
Proof of being eternally saved, for all who are tried: Matthew 24:24. John 10:28-29.

Your statement here is contradictory, on the one hand you claim John 3:18; 1 John 5:12, 13 and Romans 8:8, 9 speak “vehementlyagainst the idea that every man must be tested before receiving eternal life.

And then you quote Matt 24:24 (?) and John 10:28, 29 as “Proof of being eternally saved, for all who are tried.”

So which is it, do you or don’t you believe every man must be tested before receiving eternal life?

It should be noted that all the scriptures you quoted here apply specifically to believers or followers of Christ during the Gospel Age. This is particularly pointed out in your quote of John 10:28, 29 had you also included the preceding verse, Verse 27, viz.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”

"Other sheep I have which are not of THIS fold (“this fold” being in reference to the Overcoming Church); them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold and one Shepherd."(John 10:16)

During the Gospel Age the Lord has but one Church, one flock who follow him. "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." (John 10:27) From the very first there has been no change in the Lord's flock, either in the terms of discipleship or in the reward promised (the same terms have been offered to both Jew and Gentile alike); as we read, "Ye are called in one hope of your calling."(Eph 4:4)

“The "other sheep" evidently refer to others who will become the Lord's followers under different conditions and under a different call from that which has gone forth during the Gospel Age. The present flock is called upon to sacrifice the earthly nature and become partakers, with the Master and Shepherd, of the divine nature. (Rom 12:1, 2; 2 Tim 2:11, 12; 2 Pet 1:3, 4) The Lord's flock of the future will not be invited to sacrifice and to a change of nature, but will, on the contrary, be privileged to maintain and retain the human nature; and by obedience will gradually, step by step, experience Restitution (Acts 3:19-21) to perfection of mind and body and morals, lost through sin in Eden and redeemed by the great Sacrifice at Calvary. These are not now of theflock,” (i.e. of “this fold” mentioned in John 10:16) for they are not invited to the divine nature (immortality) and a heavenly mansion or inheritance, but will be invited to a perfect earthly nature and to Paradise restored during the reign of Messiah. And if they should pass their final test at the end of that age this perfect earthly nature will be theirs eternally.

All must be tested as to their loyalty to God

Satan was tested as to his loyalty to God. Adam and Eve were tested as to their loyalty to God. In the time of Noah the angels were similarly tested--not as to whether they preferred right to wrong, but as to their entire loyalty. Jesus Himself was tested as to His loyalty to the Father. The Church during the Gospel age is being tested to their loyalty to God, so likewise at the end of the Millennial Age will all mankind be tested to their heart-harmony with God, to see if they be worthy of eternal life.

I would suggest you read our blog post entitled, “WHICH IS THE TRUE GOSPEL?” beginning with Part 4, for a better understanding of what exactly we believe the true gospel to be and our belief in God's salvation through Christ.