No-one has gone to heaven?

[Renniks]

Removed

"Every body who doesn't agree with me is the debil. You the debil, you the debil, you are all of the debil, because you don't agree with me on this detail that actually doesn't have anything to do with salvation."

 

[Earburner]

So, what Jesus said about the afterlife is laughable. Ok, then.

Its not my fault that you can't understand the parable of Laz and the rich man.
So, what is your truth of the story? All beggars and poor people go to Heaven, but those who are rich shall be tormented forever without end?
I don't think so!

 

[Earburner]

No one goes to heaven unless God wants you there. He is in control, its not something that happens by default of you dying. But If I am to entertain the very idea of anyone going to heaven, the thing is, why would you care when God brings new Jerusalem to us on the earth to come? I can assure you no one will care who does and does not go to heaven at that point, because the tabernacle of God himself will be with us

Actually, you lost the plot! Or it could be you never had it in the first place.
God does NOT control who goes to Heaven!
We do, by belief or unbelief in Jesus!
John 3:18

 

[r1xlx]

No-one goes to heaven.
All the dead go into their graves until Jesus returns or Judgment Day.

 

[Dcopymope]

Actually, you lost the plot! Or it could be you never had it in the first place.
God does NOT control who goes to Heaven!
We do, by belief or unbelief in Jesus!
John 3:18

But that says nothing about who goes to heaven, only who will face judgement when the day comes based on their faith in Jesus.

 

[Renniks]

Its not my fault that you can't understand the parable of Laz and the rich man.
So, what is your truth of the story? All beggars and poor people go to Heaven, but those who are rich shall be tormented forever without end?
I don't think so!

No, I already told you what my take on the story is. It's not just one lesson, but look at the overall context of the parables Jesus is telling to the pharisees in Luke 15 and 16. Hes talking about what is of value and what isn't.

Luke 16:4 The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. 15 He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.

The lost sheep, the lost coin, the lost son, the rich man and Lazarus are all about getting your priorities right and valuing what God values.

 

[Earburner]

But that says nothing about who goes to heaven, only who will face judgement when the day comes based on their faith in Jesus.

KJV John 3:18- Jesus Himself IS God's judgment unto Eternal Life.
All of us, apart from Jesus, have already been appointed (Hebrews 9:27) to death through Adam! - key word "already".

[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

So you're saying that Jesus is a liar and heaven is full of people like you liars?

no, I’m suggesting His thoughts and His ways do not perish.

 

[Dcopymope]

KJV John 3:18- Jesus Himself IS God's judgment unto Eternal Life.
All of us, apart from Jesus, have already been appointed (Hebrews 9:27) to death through Adam! - key word "already".

[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Yeah, sure, still nothing there about going to heaven though, but whatever, believe what you believe. Its not important to me, because I know I'll see God in New Jerusalem on the new earth to come.

 

[Earburner]

No, I already told you what my take on the story is. It's not just one lesson, but look at the overall context of the parables Jesus is telling to the pharisees in Luke 15 and 16. Hes talking about what is of value and what isn't.

Luke 16:4 The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. 15 He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.

The lost sheep, the lost coin, the lost son, the rich man and Lazarus are all about getting your priorities right and valuing what God values.

You forgot the parables about "the treasure hid in a field" and "the pearl of great price".

Mat. 13[44] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
[45] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
[46] Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
Are you buying "pearls"? How?

 

[Renniks]

You forgot the parables about "the treasure hid in a field" and "the pearl of great price".

Mat. 13[44] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
[45] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
[46] Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
Are you buying "pearls"? How?

Not sure what your point is. Again, it's about valuing what God values.

 

[Earburner]

Not sure what your point is. Again, it's about valuing what God values.

In reference to the parables i just mentioned, what are we to value that He values?

 

[r1xlx]

No man can see GOD's face and live yet for 33 years everyone could look directly at Jesus and some even spat in his face.
The spitters were just as blind as so many on this forum.

 

[Renniks]

In reference to the parables i just mentioned, what are we to value that He values?

That's what the whole Bible is about. Learning what God wants, who he is, what salvation does, how his kingdom changes the world as we become a different kind of people because of being his. And of course, continuing on to glory with him after physical death.
I'd have to write a book to fully answer what his kingdom is. But the Book already exists.

 

[Earburner]

That's what the whole Bible is about. Learning what God wants, who he is, what salvation does, how his kingdom changes the world as we become a different kind of people because of being his. And of course, continuing on to glory with him after physical death.
I'd have to write a book to fully answer what his kingdom is. But the Book already exists.

I am not asking you about what the whole Bible is about. I am asking you about the two following parables, and what the message in them is saying:
Mat. 13[44] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

[45] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
[46] Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

 

[Renniks]

I am not asking you about what the whole Bible is about. I am asking you about the two following parables, and what the message in them is saying:
Mat. 13[44] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

[45] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
[46] Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

It's self explanatory. Following Jesus is worth any price.

 

[Earburner]

^ Not to keep you in the dark, here some clues to the two parables I referenced:
Mat. 7[6] Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

John 15[13] Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

John 10[11] I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
[15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

 

[Earburner]

^ Also, here is the key to understanding all of the above aforementioned: Isaiah 55:8-9 and John 16:13.

 

[Earburner]

It's self explanatory. Following Jesus is worth any price.

I agree, but that is NOT the message of those two parables.

 

[Renniks]

John 15[13] Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

John 10[11] I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
[15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Seems like this would fit with the parable of the lost sheep, not the other two you mentioned.